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Author Topic: Why bad boys get girls
lessismore
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quote:

From Thursday's Globe and Mail - PHILIP JACKMAN
June 18, 2008 at 11:32 PM EDT

James Bond types who possess a 'dark triad' of characteristics are more likely to have multiple sexual partners, study says

The bad boys get more girls. You always suspected it was true and now a psychological study backs it up.

Research done by Peter Jonason at New Mexico State University says it's all to do with the “dark triad” – a trio of otherwise negative characteristics combining the narcissist's sense of entitlement, the non-clinical psychopath's high impulsivity and thrill-seeking nature, and the manipulative skills of Machiavellianism.

At high levels, they'll make a person a social pariah, but a certain amount of each will result in a highly active sex life, says the study.

“There's a fair bit of evidence that these guys are just more interested in short-term mating,” Mr. Jonason said in a telephone interview from New Mexico on Wednesday. “So I put together a survey that looked at the dark triad and a number of ways of measuring short-term mating orientation.”


Eva Green with Daniel Craig as James Bond: part Machiavellian charm, part narcissistic entitlement and part pathological thrill-seeking. (Jay Maidment/Sony Pictures/Associated Press)

He gave 200 surveys to psychology students that ranked them for each element of the dark triad and asked them about their sex lives and attitudes toward sexual relationships. “We found this interesting pattern across the three different measures of the triad,” he said.

He explains that the triad's characteristics were traditionally seen as separate “but what we are saying is that these are three different measures of this socially exploitive personality trait” that accentuates a man's ability to pursue his own selfish needs, hence a tendency toward short-term relationships.

“It's a very James Bond kind of psychology,” he said. “And if I get the opportunity, I'll change the ‘dark triad' to the ‘James Bond complex.' I think that's really more accurate because we're not looking at clinical aspects of the [characteristics], we're looking at how normal people can have these negative traits and be doing great things with their lives. They can be doctors and professors and politicians – and, obviously, spies.”

David Schmitt of Bradley University in Peoria, Ill., found similar links between the dark triad and reproductive success in the preliminary results of a study of men in 57 countries.

“It is universal across cultures for high dark-triad scorers to be more active in short-term mating,” he told New Scientist magazine. “They are more likely to try and poach other people's partners for a brief affair.”

So, why exactly do the bad boys have so many sexual partners?

Mr. Jonason's study, co-authored by Norman Li, Gregory Webster and Prof. Schmitt, says the dark triad may facilitate a social style that exploits others.

For instance, those with high levels of Machiavellianism are exploitive charmers. Narcissists tend to have a desire for power and dominance and are less likely to feel guilt or shame. They're also persistent and dedicated in achieving their goals.

The study adds: “Psychopathy is also associated with an exploitative nature … and low levels of empathy, shame and guilt.”

It concludes: “As such, individuals who score high on the dark-triad traits are not well suited for or interested in maintaining long-term relationships.” And once their qualities are evident to others, they're “viewed as undesirable, and thus, to be avoided by potential long-term partners.”

After all, how likely is James Bond to get married and settle down in a 9-to-5 civil-service job?

[Exploding]
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JoshCrow
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Back when I was a single dude, I quickly got over my annoyance with "bad boys" when I realized that the women worth dating generally saw right through them.

I see it this way - these men provide a valuable service in catching all the lobsters and crabs in the ocean, so you can net yourself a nice fine fish.

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Everard
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"Back when I was a single dude, I quickly got over my annoyance with "bad boys" when I realized that the women worth dating generally saw right through them."

After a few months, yes...or when they get older, maybe. All the women I have known or knew who are worth dating did spend a period of their lives dating a series of bad boys.

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Straygaldwyr
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I have been pursued by many women with nice partners, so there is certainly an aspect of female preference for such men involved, for the women these traits also come with the benefit of physical fitness (narcissism) freedom from commitment and skilled and adventurous lovemaking. Do not put it all on the men...
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scifibum
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Well, I like crab. What are you trying to say?

Anyway, this is the exact kind of report that drives me nuts. For all I know, there's some serious science going on. But when the terms they use are so OBVIOUSLY chosen to help generate the media equivalent of Chicken McNuggets, I default to thinking they are doing junk science and just want to see their names in print. "Dark Triad"? James Bond? It's Bruckheimeresque.

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JoshCrow
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quote:
Originally posted by Everard:

After a few months, yes...or when they get older, maybe. All the women I have known or knew who are worth dating did spend a period of their lives dating a series of bad boys.

You're right - but at the same time, does a nice guy really want to date a woman who hasn't figured all that out yet? Let them get it out of their system. As a bonus, they'll overcompensate and appreciate you more.
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Stevarooni
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This isn't surprising. Arrogance/pushiness pass for assertiveness/confidence.

On the flip side "nice guys" don't come in last, doormats do. Those "nice guys" who are assertive, self-confident and outgoing will do just fine.

Of course, in the end a dearth of personality will cripple anyone's long-term chances for success in relationship.

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KnightEnder
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Thank God I found my wife before she realized what a bad long-term risk I was.

And, Amen, let them get it out of their system. [Smile]

KE

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Colin JM0397
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Steve - exactly. Many women are burned before they learn the difference.

It's about projecting self-confidence, comfort in your own skin, and simply standing up for what you believe in. Women test guys for those things - when you are the "nice guy" and always give in, you get no respect because you have no self-respect. It's all actually quite simple. Don't do what you think she wants you to do, and simply follow through on what you know you need to do to be a stand up guy - if that sort of thing interests you. When all else fails, simply be open about what you’re doing and thinking and don’t back down when you know you’re standing up for something you believe in.

Here's a great website on being a good standup guy that women love, but not an arrogant prick: http://www.makingherhappy.com/

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TommySama
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"And, Amen, let them get it out of their system."

I'll second that Amen. I think I have a healthy mixture of these traits.

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KnightEnder
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I'll say you do.

quote:
Research done by Peter Jonason at New Mexico State University says it's all to do with the “dark triad” – a trio of otherwise negative characteristics combining the narcissist's sense of entitlement, the non-clinical psychopath's high impulsivity and thrill-seeking nature, and the manipulative skills of Machiavellianism.

And I think a serious argument could be made on a lot of different levels that 'those' traits aren't bad at all.

The meek may inherit the earth, but it don't look like they are going to get laid much. They can have the ****ing earth. [Smile]

KE

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KnightEnder
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"I like women. I like all kinds of women. I especially like women who don't know me very well!" [Smile]

Sorry, but that movie quote, from one of the all time classic movies, popped into my head and I had to share. Anybody know what it's from and or who said it?

KE

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TommySama
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"The meek may inherit the earth, but it don't look like they are going to get laid much. They can have the ****ing earth."

10% of the guys are getting 90% of the girls, KE. you should have stayed in the game [Wink]

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KnightEnder
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Sometimes I think that. Then I look at my sons.

KE

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Stevarooni
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightEnder:
Sometimes I think that. Then I look at my sons.

Now come on! You might be "fertile", but your sons can't comprise 10% of the guys!


Can they?

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KnightEnder
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No, for some reason, I can't understand, my boys are 'good' guys. I'm terribly disappointed.

KE

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TommySama
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"Sometimes I think that. Then I look at my sons."

You could have soooo many more sons to love [Razz]

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munga
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How about we take a look at both sides of the equation?

Are women benefitted by being "hit and run" repeatedly by the James Bonds?

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Stevarooni
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quote:
Originally posted by munga:
Are women benefitted by being "hit and run" repeatedly by the James Bonds?

That's a binary question for an analog situation. Some women learn a great deal, so for them, it's quite worth the tuition. Others don't seem to learn, and continue entering into the same relationships with no improvement in how they handle them.
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munga
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Agreed.

Then we have to ask the question, are women, on average, benefitted by being "hit and run" repeatedly by the James Bonds?

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TommySama
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Maybe girls, in general, like to get treated like crap?

I'll give you an example: Girls serial sleep with guys that treat them like crap.

I rest my case.

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munga
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I think we can agree that they don't. Nor do they have an understanding that James Bond is a "serial" kind of guy. A reasonable person at that point would say, is what is good for the gander (getting it out of his system) costing the goose (the hit and run abandonees) too much? That is partly the point of the MO (narcistic, thrill-seeking, charm) and the unexpected MO (abandonment) that he appears and has certain desireable qualities, and women leap at the chance to bed with him... but how is everyone doing next year?

As I've said before, it is my theory that they are all wondering, hoping, trying to figure out how to Become Stacy, the girl James Bond (KE) kept.

[ June 19, 2008, 02:31 PM: Message edited by: munga ]

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Jesse
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The smart ones don't get "hit and run repeatedly".

I dunno about girls in general, Tommy, but some definately do.

I think this "researcher" is adding up raw numbers or sexual partners rather than opportunities. The fact is, women throw themselves at "good dudes" all the time.

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munga
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They do, Jesse, but why? I submit it is because they want to belong to the good dude.... not used and abandoned by the good dude!
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KnightEnder
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I'd love to argue the bad guy side but somewhere (and I'm sure that would be the one thing the damn OA search function found) I said that I feel bad about the effect my behavior had on some of the girls I slept with. Of course, I think that was on the thread where I also mentioned that when they crawl in your bed naked and wake you up what guy good or bad is going to kick them out?

KE

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rightleft22
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My problem is that I’m to good looking. This is not a subjective statement but based on scientific method. Whenever I walk into a room where many woman are gathered none of them appears to show me the least bit of attention, ego, just as Descartes’ ablity to doubt and question proved his existence, I’m too good looking..

Kind of like looking into the sun I guess…

Therefore a woman's only option is to go for the bad boys who must not be good looking enough to avoid.

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KnightEnder
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Thank God they take pity on us.

KE

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rightleft22
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Are you implying something here KE?
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munga
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightEnder:
I'd love to argue the bad guy side but somewhere (and I'm sure that would be the one thing the damn OA search function found) I said that I feel bad about the effect my behavior had on some of the girls I slept with. Of course, I think that was on the thread where I also mentioned that when they crawl in your bed naked and wake you up what guy good or bad is going to kick them out?

KE

My husband has done exactly that, a few times. Once, three came at once, all in matching negliges. (I'm married to a former jock, I understand opportunities like this happen fairly regularly). As I recall, his "This isn't going to be a good long-term decision" went over just fine, and he ran away parting with a nice hug for each. They were horny, they wanted some, he might not have given out what they were looking for, but he might also have prevented damage from himself and damage in the form of the next thing (whatever it was) that would have happened. Maybe it also helped them re-think the idea, period. He still gets cards from one of them, I think.
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Colin JM0397
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I'd say it's because women are just as ignorant about men as men are about women, and until one grows up, gets in touch with yourself, and makes an effort to learn about the opposite sex, then you go off all the BS you learn from your peers and the media and you end up disappointed.

My G/F really hates the vapid screw anything attitude of girls these days. They think women’s lib means they can be as raunchy and sexually aggressive as men… It doesn’t, but pop culture tells them its okay so they are easy and sleazy and then wonder why they are miserable as hell and can’t find a good guy. Girls in the US have traded in their femininity – that oh so powerful thing that we love – for this androgynous “I can out men the men” BS. It’s not sexy, it’s not becoming of a lady we’d like to settle down with, and, frankly, it goes against woman’s nature. Being easy and sleazy is not what we want… Well, in truth, for just that one special guy, of course it’s what we want, but not when it’s the daily special offered to everyone.

I love visiting Europe – Italy particularly, because there the women still are women. Sexy, feminine, and, yes, with strength in their womanhood – that is true feminism. Embracing your natural state and not trying to force this BS equality. Social and employment equality, of course, but this push in the US for biological and physical equality is making everyone miserable.

Women are used and thrown away because, just as no women respects a man who lets her do everything she wants (for he does not respect himself), guys do not respect women who (sexually) throw themselves at us, for they do not respect themselves.

Sure, we'll "hit that", but when you make it too easy we get skeeved out and then leave.

On that note, most “nice guys” out there are just as wrong as all those “easy and sleazy” girls out there… We are trying to force ourselves to operate outside of what feels natural to us and its making us miserable and also not very nice to each other at times. I say this as a former and still recovering “nice guy”.

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rightleft22
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I wonder if the study of women with the same personality characterises would come out the same?
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KnightEnder
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Munga,

You were asking about Stacy, and how to be the Stacy? Stacy made me wait far longer then any girl had made me wait. I don't know if that is what made me love her, but it didn't hurt, and it did make her different.

KE

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cherrypoptart
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I don't suppose this study mentioned anything about bad guys who get more girls also getting more STDs?

Is it worth it to have sex with a lot of girls if that includes getting genital herpes, or HPV?

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munga
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....or helped you grow up and learn to see women as more than playtoys and satisfiers of sexual urges [Razz]


Be well, always

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KnightEnder
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Colin,

I agree with what you said. You'd think as much as I love women that I'd love those "Girls Gone Wild" videos, but I have to turn the channel because they repulse me. It's like we have a nation full of 18 year old tittie dancers. And there is nothing great about having sex with a girl or woman that will screw just anybody. Double standard, yeah, but there it is. Thank God I've got boys.

Oh, and the last time I went out with the guys, I couldn't believe the forwardness of women today. In my day guys said things like "My place or yours" not 25 year old women.

Of course I was 18 in '86 and everybody had just become terrified of AIDS so maybe this is another sexual revolution like the one that followed the Pill? (Now that nobody hetero is afraid of AIDS anymore.)

KE

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KnightEnder
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Cherry,

Between condoms and having sex, most of mine between 12 and 20, the girls themselves did not have a lot of sexual partners. In fact, more than a few had just decided they wanted to have sex and were looking for they type of guy that they knew would do it without them having to feel like sluts by out and out asking for it. I felt so used. Even Stacy, when we finally had sex said that (she'd only had one long term boyfriend before me) she wanted to see what it was like with someone else.

My point is back in my day girls didn't have a lot of sexual partners and condoms suck but protect against most venereal diseases pretty damn well. Thank God.

Edited to add: Besides, at those ages young men in general believe that they are invincible anyway. And with that amount of testosterone running through your veins, yes, getting girls is worth any risk.

KE

[ June 19, 2008, 05:27 PM: Message edited by: KnightEnder ]

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TommySama
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I'm sure cherry went through that, KE. But his father kept him busy and gave him cherry poptarts every night so he didn't have to think about those things. [Smile]
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munga
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Do you have any idea how they are today, KE?
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cherrypoptart
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Not so sure about that...

And whatever applied for KnightEnder doesn't necessarily apply today, as the high rates of STD infections indicate.

One variable this study didn't seem to take into account is that perhaps good guys don't even WANT to have sex with a whole bunch of girls.

Then again, maybe it's just me. Or maybe it's my wife [Smile]

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KnightEnder
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Well, munga, all the 18 year olds I sleep with nowdays are virgins, so if anything I'd say they've gotten more chaste. [Smile]

No, munga, but it sure seems like they are more promiscuous. Or maybe that is just the way they dress and those damn Girls Gone Wild and MTV beach shows that make them seem that way.

Do you know how they are today? I guess Tommy does? Are they more promiscuous now than they were (the way I described them) back in the old days, Tom?

KE

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