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Author Topic: SBUX #racetogether
ScottF
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This is an actual handout to help Starbucks employees kick off racist, er I mean, race relations conversations.

http://imgur.com/rQWpC0O

Just...wow.

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Fenring
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"Hey man, lay off, I totally know at least two black guys."

The kind of race-awareness being taught by Starbucks.

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ScottF
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Yeah I'm realizing now how deeply these things have been embedded in my psyche. My parents had ZERO friends of a different race. Growing up in the Canadian praries may have skewed things a bit, but..hey Roy, is my grande non-fat one equal latte ready yet?
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Pete at Home
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According to bbc, fewer than 30%~ of white americans have a black friend, and fewer than 40% of black americans have a nonblack friend.
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scifibum
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I'm not sure if anyone who isn't getting paid by Starbucks has anything good to say about this one. It's well intentioned, but goofy at best.
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Seneca
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I had a hearty laugh at this when I open carried into a Starbucks this week and saw some conflicted attitudes. I was the only non-white person in there but I was carrying a firearm. The white guilt yuppies didn't quite know how to take it. [LOL]
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Pete at Home
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As a conversation starter, it is silly. But as self evaluation, I think this is something America needs
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Fenring
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What are you supposed to do, Pete, go out and find yourself a black friend? Or deliberately move to a mixed neighborhood just to have a better answer to a survey question? It's not as black and white as that, so to speak.
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Pete at Home
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To answer your question, what you are supposed to do is be aware of and honest about your background and point of view re race.
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ScottF
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quote:
Originally posted by Pete at Home:
To answer your question, what you are supposed to do is be aware of and honest about your background and point of view re race.

Ok, awareness. Check. Now what?
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Seneca
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Exactly. It's ridiculous. This creates racism where non exists by producing anxiety and guilt where people might have just treated each other as plain old humans.
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Pete at Home
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anxiety and fear are born of ignorance. Self kn owledge is prerequisite to improvement.
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Seneca
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I'd agree to that but probably not the way most would think. It is born in this case out of false ignorance pushed onto people by the race hustlers who need people believing they are ignorant to maintain the race hustlers' relevance as phony "intermediaries," "ambassadors," and "translators."

[ March 22, 2015, 05:22 PM: Message edited by: Seneca ]

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Pete at Home
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Phonies abound everywhere.

I don't think that we need to cultivate a sense of racial naivete and ignorance in order to protect ourselves from the likes of Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton.

I think that Americans should be aware that most white Americans would miss identify a black person in a lineup, simply because they're not used to associated with black people.


I don't think that's something they should feel guilty about. I think it's something they should be aware of. Do we make people feel ashamed because they are blind?
no but we don't give them the driver's license.

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Seneca
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And what exactly are blacks not qualified to do?

What exactly are whites not qualified to do?

The blind man analogy was not apt here.

[ March 23, 2015, 01:22 AM: Message edited by: Seneca ]

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Pete at Home
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why don't you read again more carefully and figure out what I was making the analogy to, before you decide whether it was accurate or not.

I wasn't comparing whiteness of blackness to blindness.I was comparing prejudice resulting from lack of exposure to other cultures to blindness.if you are white and you've never had a black friend, then you're probably not terribly qualified to pick a black person out of a line up. as a police officer you should know that. sono la if you're black and you've never had a white friend, you shouldn't be considered reliable to make a white person out of a line up.you've probably heard people both black and white sometimes say the Asians all look the same. That says more about the person speaking then about the features of asians.

what I'm saying is that America is wrong to treat racism as some sort of mortal sin. it's really more of a disability, albeit a treatable hopefully curable one. America zero tolerance policy towards racial prejudice results in a situation where American spend 99 times as much effort denying that they have any racial prejudice, then actually trying to overcome their prejudices.you and fenring have been reacting to what I've been saying on the assumption that I buy into the typical American zero tolerance policy. you assume that when I say that people need to be more aware of the racism, that I am suggesting that races should feel horribly guilty here should have to make drastic changes to their lives. relax. I didn't grow up in the silly country, and so I haven't inherited the puritanical view that you have about prejudice. As I see it Prejudice is a lot less dangerous ones when you're aware of it.

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Seneca
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quote:
if you are white and you've never had a black friend, then you're probably not terribly qualified to pick a black person out of a line up.
That is insane. If you witnessed a crime and/or were the victim and you saw the criminal it doesn't matter who or what your friends are if you got a good look. You can pick them out. Are you trying to imply that blacks or whites "look the same" to the opposite race if that opposite race member doesn't have friends of the other race? That is bizarre.

quote:
as a police officer you should know that.
No, I don't. I have never seen an example of this. If you are trying to say that people with vague recollections or who didn't get a good look might be tempted to pick someone of the opposite race based out of inborn racism that is a different matter but it has nothing to do with what we're discussing specifically right here.

quote:
sono la if you're black and you've never had a white friend, you shouldn't be considered reliable to make a white person out of a line up
Again, absurd.

quote:
you've probably heard people both black and white sometimes say the Asians all look the same. That says more about the person speaking then about the features of asians.
Wow, that is one of the worst stereotypes of what non-asian and non-black people think I have ever heard. And also not true. Give whites, latinos, Indians, Arabs and other ethnicities some credit for having eyeballs and brains and living in 2015...

quote:
what I'm saying is that America is wrong to treat racism as some sort of mortal sin.
I agree.

quote:
it's really more of a disability
No. It's a choice. A belief.

quote:
America zero tolerance policy towards racial prejudice results in a situation where American spend 99 times as much effort denying that they have any racial prejudice
No, this isn't so much as a function of the "zero tolerance" policy as it is the huge Race Hustling industry that things like the NAACP, Al Shaprton, and others have created and don't want to let go of because of the money and power it affords them. So no matter how successful society is at getting rid of most forms of racism, it will never be enough for those whose power and paycheck depend on scolding America and telling us there is something wrong with us.

quote:
.you and fenring have been reacting to what I've been saying on the assumption that I buy into the typical American zero tolerance policy. you assume that when I say that people need to be more aware of the racism, that I am suggesting that races should feel horribly guilty here should have to make drastic changes to their lives. relax. I didn't grow up in the silly country, and so I haven't inherited the puritanical view that you have about prejudice. As I see it Prejudice is a lot less dangerous ones when you're aware of it.
No, my responses aren't completely about you, but mostly based on your statements you've made about what you want society to do outside of your own personal choices and decisions. For example, your prescriptions about identifying suspects and requirements for that above, completely unacceptable.
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Rafi
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quote:
Originally posted by Pete at Home:
if you are white and you've never had a black friend, then you're probably not terribly qualified to pick a black person out of a line up.

Really? [DOH]
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Pete at Home
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quote:
Originally posted by Seneca:
quote:
if you are white and you've never had a black friend, then you're probably not terribly qualified to pick a black person out of a line up.
That is insane.
What is insane is that an officer of the law in washington state has never been educated in the difficulties of "cross-racial' identification.

That you, a police officer, would dismiss that out of hand and without consideration is the most depressing thing that i have heard all week. And to put that in context, i just got laid off from a job i loved this afafternoon and consequently will remain homeless rather than gettimg a place april 1 as expected.


" Are you trying to imply that blacks or whites OR OTHER RACES "look the same" to PERSONS OF A DIFFERENT race if thE VIEWER doesn't have friends of the VIEWED person's race?"

FTFY. Yes, except sazying it outright not just implying it.

"That is bizarre."

In your experience is reality seldom bizarre?

" who didn't get a good look might be tempted to pick someone of the opposite race based out of inborn racism that is a different matter but it has nothing to do with what we're discussing specifically right here."

That's not what i am saying and yes, it's totally different.

quote:
sono la if you're black and you've never had a white friend, you shouldn't be considered reliable to make a white person out of a line up
___
Again, absurd.

That's what the London nature society said when it received sketches and notes on the duck billed platypus. Reality doesnt synch to our expectations.


[QuoTEIou've probably heard people both black and white sometimes say the Asians all look the same. That says more about the person speaking then about the features of asians.

___
Wow, that is one of the worst stereotypes of what non-asian and non-black people think I have ever heard. And also not true. Give whites, latinos, Indians, Arabs and other ethnicities some credit for having eyeballs and brains and living in 2015...
[/QUOTE]
The difference between 2015 and 1970 in terms of cross racial identification is less attitude change and more exposure to more diverse faces through movies and 24 hour news.

Mark Twain once said travel is the best cure for bigotry. Knowledge isnt aalways a "choice". Cave men could not simply "choose" to go to the moon. I knew good men that were virulently homophobic until they first met the first out of the closet homosexual other that the guy that molested them when they were young. It's only when you gain better information and meet new people that you have a choice to set aside racist views.

"your prkniptions about identifying suspects and requirements for that above, completely unacceptable."

I doubt very much that you have any grasp of what i am proposing. I suspect that you are lumping me with others you disagree with.

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scifibum
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I don't think Seneca was a police officer. I think he worked in a supporting role (civilian something or other) qfor a sheriff's department.
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