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» The Ornery American Forum » General Comments » The UK vs the Iroqois confederacy

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Author Topic: The UK vs the Iroqois confederacy
Pete at Home
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The team says using other passports would be an attack on their identity.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us+canada-10634044

The question is, did they give the UK notive beforehand that they were going to do this, or did they spring it on them at the last moment?

Oh, and the Iroquois invented Lacrosse.

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quote:
The team says using other passports would be an attack on their identity.
I don't think it would be a big deal for the U.K. to make a special exception for the team but the team's argument is pretty weak. The only harm that comes from using U.S. or Canadian passports seems to be a perceived affront to their identity. Merely choosing not to get offended would make their problems disappear.

[ July 15, 2010, 02:08 AM: Message edited by: threads ]

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Pete at Home
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Hmm. Does the Palestinian Authority issue passports?

Wonder if the Iroqois voted in the last American or Canadian elections.

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They were allowed to
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Pete at Home
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I know that. What I'm saying is that if they intentionally exercise some rights and participate in other activities of US citizens, it's a weaker argument that using Iroquois rather than US passports affronts their dignity.
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Ah ok, I misunderstood you. That's a good point.
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DonaldD
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It is an interesting dilemma - at least from a Canadian territory perspective (not sure about the US). Canada has treaties with the first nations and has recognized treaty obligations towards them. As such, Canada recognizes these nations.

The first nations people in Canada (in general, some more so, some less so) self identify in large part as citizens of their specific nations. They also coexist on the same territory with the internationally recognized country called Canada, and are subject to many of that country's laws. As such, it is their right and in their own self-interest to participate in the Canadian political process. This doesn't say anything about their personal sovereignty (they forcefully reject that notion). They are subject to those laws, and have a right to have input in their creation and application.

If I understand the UK's problem it is that, from their perspective, they have no guarantee that the people carrying the first nations' documentation will be allowed back into the physical territory of Canada which is controlled by the 'other' political entity, that one which is internationally recognized.

As much as anything, this decision to use the first nations' documentation is to force just such international conundrums - as well as being a simple pride thing.

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Pete at Home
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Or maybe their star player had the flu or something, and they wanted an honorable way out of the game.
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DonaldD
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Naw, they have been using these same travel documents for a long time, and the UK has supposedly respected them in the past, so that would have been a risky way to avoid losing [Smile]

Besides, they are Iroquois going to play the English at Lacrosse. How could they possibly lose?

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Pete at Home
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quote:
Originally posted by DonaldD:
Naw, they have been using these same travel documents for a long time, and the UK has supposedly respected them in the past, so that would have been a risky way to avoid losing [Smile]

Eh? I missed that. Are you sure? Then why did you say:
quote:
As much as anything, this decision to use the first nations' documentation is to force just such international conundrums - as well as being a simple pride thing.

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DonaldD
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Do you see some kind of conflict between the two statements? Maybe 'force' could be replaced by 'trigger'...
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Pete at Home
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But if they've been using these docs previously, and the UK is only now cracking down ...
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DonaldD
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Yes?
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Pete at Home
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I don't understanding how the word replacement you suggest would reconcile your statments. And I'm not being argumentative, obtuse, or intentionally difficult. I really don't get it.
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