Ornery.org
  Front Page   |   About Ornery.org   |   World Watch   |   Guest Essays   |   Contact Us

The Ornery American Forum Post New Topic  Post A Reply
my profile login | register | search | faq | forum home

  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» The Ornery American Forum » General Comments » A new ally for O'Reilly...Garrison Keillor? (Page 1)

 - UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!   This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2   
Author Topic: A new ally for O'Reilly...Garrison Keillor?
Viking_Longship
Member
Member # 3358

 - posted      Profile for Viking_Longship   Email Viking_Longship       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:


Unitarians listen to the Inner Voice and so they have no creed that they all stand up and recite in unison, and that's their perfect right, but it is wrong, wrong, wrong to rewrite "Silent Night." If you don't believe Jesus was God, OK, go write your own damn "Silent Night" and leave ours alone. This is spiritual piracy and cultural elitism, and we Christians have stood for it long enough. And all those lousy holiday songs by Jewish guys that trash up the malls every year, Rudolph and the chestnuts and the rest of that dreck. Did one of our guys write "Grab your loafers, come along if you wanna, and we'll blow that shofar for Rosh Hashanah"? No, we didn't.

Christmas is a Christian holiday - if you're not in the club, then buzz off. Celebrate Yule instead or dance around in druid robes for the solstice. Go light a big log, go wassailing and falalaing until you fall down, eat figgy pudding until you puke, but don't mess with the Messiah.


Nonbelievers, please leave Christmas alone

I think Keillor just joined the war on the war on Christmas.
I also think he may have just gotten himself damned as anti-semite.

I thought that the comment about Rudolph was weird but, love wikipedia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny_Marks
The writer is indeed Jewish.

[ December 19, 2009, 12:05 AM: Message edited by: OrneryMod ]

Posts: 5765 | Registered: Dec 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Gaoics79
Member
Member # 969

 - posted      Profile for Gaoics79   Email Gaoics79   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Yikes... What an *******.
Posts: 7629 | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Pyrtolin
Member
Member # 2638

 - posted      Profile for Pyrtolin   Email Pyrtolin   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Most evidence I've seen so far suggest that Keillor has long has his tongue grafted to his cheek and people tend to forget that when he aims at issues that they care about.

The best indicator there is when he pans Deck the Halls and Wassailing as appropriation, but then goes on to blithely list a bunch of other tacked on and appropriated traditions as part the essential traditions.

Posts: 11997 | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Pete at Home
Member
Member # 429

 - posted      Profile for Pete at Home   Email Pete at Home   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
There are legitimate complaints to make about the war on Christmas, related to suppression of free speech, intolerance, and grotesque malice. But this "spiritual piracy" argument is complete nonsense. We Christians appropriated trappings of Yule and dozens of other Pagan traditions into our own, and if you get right down to it, the name Christ itself came from a pagan tradition.
Posts: 44193 | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Pete at Home
Member
Member # 429

 - posted      Profile for Pete at Home   Email Pete at Home   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Not to mention, if this guy categorically rejects any contributions by Jews to Christian tradition, has anyone mentioned to this twit that Jesus and all the writers of the gospels were Jewish?
Posts: 44193 | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Wayward Son
Member
Member # 210

 - posted      Profile for Wayward Son   Email Wayward Son   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
This is spiritual piracy and cultural elitism, and we Christians have stood for it long enough. And all those lousy holiday songs by Jewish guys that trash up the malls every year, Rudolph and the chestnuts and the rest of that dreck. Did one of our guys write "Grab your loafers, come along if you wanna, and we'll blow that shofar for Rosh Hashanah"? No, we didn't.
Actually, one just did! [LOL]

(You don't suppose he might have known about this? [Wink] )

Posts: 8681 | Registered: Dec 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Viking_Longship
Member
Member # 3358

 - posted      Profile for Viking_Longship   Email Viking_Longship       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
If he wrote this tounge in cheek he did it too with too much subtlety. People were responding with genuine offense.
Posts: 5765 | Registered: Dec 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
OpsanusTau
Member
Member # 2350

 - posted      Profile for OpsanusTau   Email OpsanusTau   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Garrison Keillor often keeps his tongue-in-cheek satire a little bit on the subtle side. It's one of the things I enjoy about him; it's sometimes not really possible to tell if he's agreeing with someone or making fun of them.

It's possible that if you asked him, he would say that he enjoys the ambiguity. I know I do.

Posts: 3791 | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Pyrtolin
Member
Member # 2638

 - posted      Profile for Pyrtolin   Email Pyrtolin   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
This wouldn't be the first time that's happened with him.
Posts: 11997 | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
RickyB
Member
Member # 1464

 - posted      Profile for RickyB   Email RickyB   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
anybody who thinks this is serious don't know Garrison Keillor very well, do he.
Posts: 19145 | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Colin JM0397
Member
Member # 916

 - posted      Profile for Colin JM0397   Email Colin JM0397   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Someone should tell him that the whole Virgin birth and resurrection thing has been around long before Jesus was around.
Perhaps it's the worshipers of Baal and Moloch who should be complaining? After all, that whole shtick started with the Babylonian religions, and probably even earlier.
Hell, even Isis and Horus had that story down BC, so they ought to pitch a bitch as well.

Merry Moloch-mis everyone!

[Exploding]

Posts: 4738 | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
KidB
Member
Member # 3016

 - posted      Profile for KidB   Email KidB   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Ditto Ricky.

Anyone taking this seriously needs to read a few more of Keillor's columns on Salon.

It's satire, folks. Satire. Twain, Swift...get the idea?

[ December 18, 2009, 07:29 PM: Message edited by: KidB ]

Posts: 1960 | Registered: Aug 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Pyrtolin
Member
Member # 2638

 - posted      Profile for Pyrtolin   Email Pyrtolin   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Colin JM0397:
Someone should tell him that the whole Virgin birth and resurrection thing has been around long before Jesus was around.
Perhaps it's the worshipers of Baal and Moloch who should be complaining? After all, that whole shtick started with the Babylonian religions, and probably even earlier.
Hell, even Isis and Horus had that story down BC, so they ought to pitch a bitch as well.

Mithras want's his holiday back as well.

But, really, that was his point there.

Posts: 11997 | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Pete at Home
Member
Member # 429

 - posted      Profile for Pete at Home   Email Pete at Home   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by RickyB:
anybody who thinks this is serious don't know Garrison Keillor very well, do he.

I don't. But if he was presenting that as satire representation of the complaints of the war on Christmas, then he's either dishonest or a fool.
Posts: 44193 | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
ken_in_sc
Member
Member # 6462

 - posted      Profile for ken_in_sc   Email ken_in_sc       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Keillor is making fun of people who believe there is a War on Christmas. This is just like when he makes fun of small town Lutherans and Catholics in his Lake Woebegone stories. When you hear his smooth sonorous voice on the radio, it seems as if he empathizes with them, however, when you read the plain text in his books, you can see he really disdains and looks down on them. This is satire.
Posts: 159 | Registered: May 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Pete at Home
Member
Member # 429

 - posted      Profile for Pete at Home   Email Pete at Home   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by ken_in_sc:
Keillor is making fun of people who believe there is a War on Christmas. This is just like when he makes fun of small town Lutherans and Catholics in his Lake Woebegone stories. When you hear his smooth sonorous voice on the radio, it seems as if he empathizes with them, however, when you read the plain text in his books, you can see he really disdains and looks down on them. This is satire.

If it's satire, it's dishonest satire, in contrast with Swift's satire which was also misunderstood, but at least honestly addressed its object. If Keillor is misunderstood and branded an antisemite, this isn't as tragic as what happened to Swift, since Keillor would be guilty of something as pernicious as what he's being accused of.
Posts: 44193 | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
PSRT
Member
Member # 6454

 - posted      Profile for PSRT   Email PSRT   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Are you seriously suggesting that there are not many people with public voices saying exactly what Keillor is satirizing?

[ December 19, 2009, 04:10 PM: Message edited by: PSRT ]

Posts: 2152 | Registered: Apr 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
ken_in_sc
Member
Member # 6462

 - posted      Profile for ken_in_sc   Email ken_in_sc       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
This is entirely within Keillor’s style. Although he makes a few self-depreciating remarks, his humor is mostly aimed directly at anyone who might be considered right wing or conservative. If he ever appears to be agreeing with someone on that side, such as Bill O’Reilly, it’s a joke. You can count on it. Actually, I think he may be trying to taint the Christmas War partisans with Anti-Semitism.
Posts: 159 | Registered: May 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Pete at Home
Member
Member # 429

 - posted      Profile for Pete at Home   Email Pete at Home   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by ken_in_sc:
This is entirely within Keillor’s style. Although he makes a few self-depreciating remarks, his humor is mostly aimed directly at anyone who might be considered right wing or conservative. If he ever appears to be agreeing with someone on that side, such as Bill O’Reilly, it’s a joke. You can count on it. Actually, I think he may be trying to taint the Christmas War partisans with Anti-Semitism.

Hence my remark that he's dishonest.
Posts: 44193 | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
cherrypoptart
Member
Member # 3942

 - posted      Profile for cherrypoptart     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I can't stand to listen to him since Obama got elected. They used to do a skit every show with Bush as a big doofus, but I guess there is nothing funny about Obama so they can't make fun of him. I haven't really heard the show though for a long time now. It's kind of a shame because I enjoyed it, but seeing how he is I just can no longer bear to hear him anymore without feeling slimy. He's just a little too slick by half.

To the point of this discussion, I agree with those who see this as satire. He's done drunk the cool-aide and there's no way he'll go back on it now. No matter how bad it gets or how Obama disappoints him privately, publicly he's going down with the ship with a song on his lips, a smile on his face, a story on his tongue, and joy in his heart. He's all in.

-------------------------------------------

I like shows like "Wait Wait Don't Tell Me" on NPR still though because even though they're all a bunch of big libs at least they still have a sense of humor and can make fun of President Obama and, as they call, him Joe "Gold Mine" Biden. Garrison just isn't that funny anymore since he became so blatantly uber-political. That's one of the saddest things about Communism as well as some of the hard core leftists is that one of the first things to be killed is really funny humor.

----------------------------------------------

This latest tirade of his, a poor attempt at satire, is a case in point. It's just pathetic.

It's like he's not even trying to be funny. He's just angry. And it shows.

It's a little bit ironic how the Obama victory is killing some of the once great entertainers. Letterman. Keillor. And plenty more on the good humor funeral pyre of hope and change. As I always say, "Thanks Obama!"

Posts: 7675 | Registered: Mar 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
KidB
Member
Member # 3016

 - posted      Profile for KidB   Email KidB   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
This is what decades of Morton Downey Jr. and his many blowhard descendants have done to us. Two decades of political shouting has left us tone-deaf.

It's not really Swiftian, but more Twain - i.e., barbed satirical covering wrapped around a core of sincerity.

I recommend reading the whole thing.

Here's another (very different) passage from the same piece:

quote:
People in Cambridge learn to be wary of brilliance, having seen geniuses in the throes of deep thought step into potholes and disappear. Such as the brilliant economist Lawrence Summers, whose presidency brought Harvard to the verge of disaster. He, against the advice of his lessers, invested Harvard's operating funds in the stock market and lost the bet. In the cold light of day, this was dumber than dirt, like putting the kids' lunch money on Valiant's Fancy to win in the 5th. And now the genius is in the White House, two short flights of stairs above the Oval Office. This does not make Cantabrigians feel better about our nation's economic future.

You can blame Ralph Waldo Emerson for the brazen foolishness of the elite. He preached here at the First Church of Cambridge, a Unitarian outfit (where I discovered that "Silent Night" has been cleverly rewritten to make it more about silence and night and not so much about God), and Emerson tossed off little bon mots that have been leading people astray ever since. "To be great is to be misunderstood," for example. This tiny gem of self-pity has given license to a million arrogant and unlovable people to imagine that their unpopularity somehow was proof of their greatness.



[ December 20, 2009, 01:01 AM: Message edited by: KidB ]

Posts: 1960 | Registered: Aug 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
scifibum
Member
Member # 945

 - posted      Profile for scifibum   Email scifibum   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Eh. I haven't read/heard much (anything?) from Keillor before, so it didn't register as satire for me. I don't think it's tone deafness, though. Evidently people familiar with him got the joke. Those not didn't. We've all heard the same political shouting. *shrug*
Posts: 6847 | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Pete at Home
Member
Member # 429

 - posted      Profile for Pete at Home   Email Pete at Home   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Twain at his heart was fundamentally honest. I hope he does get labeled as an antisemite for his clumsy attempt to mislabel others as such. That's a cossmically just irony.
Posts: 44193 | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
PSRT
Member
Member # 6454

 - posted      Profile for PSRT   Email PSRT   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
What was fundamentally dishonest about this, Pete? I mean, you have heard the Bill O'Reilly rants telling everyone who doesn't celebrate Christmas to leave the country, right? These attitudes that you seem to be saying Keillor is making up exist, and are spoken by people with loud public voices. Satirizing them is not dishonest.
Posts: 2152 | Registered: Apr 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Adam Masterman
Member
Member # 1142

 - posted      Profile for Adam Masterman   Email Adam Masterman   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I think its digging to read this as an attempt to label a certain group anti-semetic. The satire works because the "Christmas warriors" are fundamentally intolerant and xenophobic. The slight anit-semetic quip fits right into one of their rants like a glove. But to say that he's labeling them anti-semites is an overly literal disection of a very improvisational art form (satire). He's just taking their intolerance and running with it a little.

I do, however, see how easy it would be to take this straight if one wasn't familiar with Keillor. Dangerous for him, but it also indicates the aptness of the parody.

Adam

Posts: 4823 | Registered: Jul 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Pete at Home
Member
Member # 429

 - posted      Profile for Pete at Home   Email Pete at Home   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by PSRT:
What was fundamentally dishonest about this, Pete? I mean, you have heard the Bill O'Reilly rants telling everyone who doesn't celebrate Christmas to leave the country, right?

No, I haven't; I don't watch O'Reilly or Hannity or any of the other talking heads that I can't argue back with.
Posts: 44193 | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
PSRT
Member
Member # 6454

 - posted      Profile for PSRT   Email PSRT   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I'm still rather shocked you could be insulated from a sentiment that, every year, rears its ugly head, not just on right wing idiot talk radio or cable, but is often all over the newspapers and, in my experience, the streets as well. This is not a small, voiceless community that Keillor is satirizing.
Posts: 2152 | Registered: Apr 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
ken_in_sc
Member
Member # 6462

 - posted      Profile for ken_in_sc   Email ken_in_sc       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
PSRT, do you have a citation or reference that Bill O’Reilly said what you said about leaving the country if you don’t celebrate Christmas? I don’t have time to pay attention to everything he says, but I don’t believe he said that. It’s not consistent with other things he has said. I stand ready to be informed.
Posts: 159 | Registered: May 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Pete at Home
Member
Member # 429

 - posted      Profile for Pete at Home   Email Pete at Home   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by ken_in_sc:
PSRT, do you have a citation or reference that Bill O’Reilly said what you said about leaving the country if you don’t celebrate Christmas? I don’t have time to pay attention to everything he says, but I don’t believe he said that. It’s not consistent with other things he has said. I stand ready to be informed.

I don't believe it. Don't like o'reilly but I don't buy that he said thar.
Posts: 44193 | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Pete at Home
Member
Member # 429

 - posted      Profile for Pete at Home   Email Pete at Home   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by PSRT:
I'm still rather shocked you could be insulated from a sentiment that, every year, rears its ugly head, not just on right wing idiot talk radio or cable, but is often all over the newspapers and, in my experience, the streets as well. This is not a small, voiceless community that Keillor is satirizing.

The stuff I've seen as "the war on Christmas" involves stuff like a public school driver getting fired for wearing a Christmas tie, schools getting sued for doing Christmas carols, etc.
Posts: 44193 | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Adam Masterman
Member
Member # 1142

 - posted      Profile for Adam Masterman   Email Adam Masterman   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
With us now, Philip Nulman, author of the book Just Say Yes!: Extreme Customer Service [Career Press, 2000]. That's what I like, extreme customer service. All right, 85 percent of Americans say they're Christians. Christmas is a federal holiday, signed into law by [President] U.S. Grant. And we're living in a time where some retail outlets will not say "Merry Christmas." Insane?

NULMAN: No, no, I don't think it's insane. I think that it's good business practice, actually. And many organizations are trying desperately to be inclusionary. They feel that the use of "Merry Christmas" in their packaging, their bags, their messages, their environment is just the opposite. It's exclusionary to the 15 or 20 percent of the customer base that is not Christian.

O'REILLY: And you agree with that?

NULMAN: I do, from a marketing standpoint.

O'REILLY: See, I think you're, I think you're crazy. And here's why. I think the backlash against stores that don't say "Merry Christmas" is enormous because now people are aware of the issue. There's going to be -- it's like the third or fourth year that we've reported it. I know everybody's hypersensitive about are they going to say "Merry Christmas"? Are they going to say "Happy Holidays"? What are they going to say? Are there decorations that say "Merry Christmas"? They're hypersensitive. And when you walk into a secular environment, most Christians are looking around, and they're really aware of it. Now, the other thing is, I don't believe most people who aren't Christian are offended by the words "Merry Christmas." I think those people are nuts. I think you're crazy if you're offended by the words "Merry Christmas."

NULMAN: Well --

O'REILLY: So you're basically only knocking out your nutty customers. And why do you want them anyway?

NULMAN: When businesses make decisions to be inclusionary as opposed to exclusionary, they do it on the basis of wanting to invite all customers in.

O'REILLY: But what --

NULMAN: They don't want to exclude customers --

O'REILLY: They are inviting all customers in --

NULMAN: What happens very often is that the message gets through to the customer that -- who is not Christian --

O'REILLY: Yes.

NULMAN: -- who is Muslim, who is Jewish, who's, who follows another faith, Buddhist, that they are not being invited in or catered to. When we counsel businesses, what we want to do is invite everyone in.

O'REILLY: Well, they --

NULMAN: "Season's Greetings" and "Happy Holidays," Bill, does not offend Christians.

O'REILLY: Yes, it does. It absolutely does. And I know that for a fact. But the smart way to do it is "Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukah, Season's Greetings, Happy Kwanzaa."

NULMAN: It's a long list.

O'REILLY: It's OK, you've got a big store. You've got a big store.

From here.

This is what is being satirized; xenophobic nonsense. If you are offended when someone wishes you a happy holiday, you've got a serious problem.

Adam

Posts: 4823 | Registered: Jul 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Pyrtolin
Member
Member # 2638

 - posted      Profile for Pyrtolin   Email Pyrtolin   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
NULMAN: "Season's Greetings" and "Happy Holidays," Bill, does not offend Christians.

O'REILLY: Yes, it does. It absolutely does. And I know that for a fact. But the smart way to do it is "Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukah, Season's Greetings, Happy Kwanzaa."

Poor guy. Caught on the technicality that he didn't say "does not offend _reasonable_ Christians".
Posts: 11997 | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
LoverOfJoy
Member
Member # 157

 - posted      Profile for LoverOfJoy   Email LoverOfJoy   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
While I agree that "Happy Holidays" is a bit more inclusive, I believe that "Merry Christmas" does not offend reasonable non-Christians either. Personally, I'd love for people to wish me a happy whatever holiday they were celebrating. I'd love to walk into one store and hear "Happy Hanukkah" and then hear "Merry Christmas" as I leave. Then enter another store and hear "Happy Kwanzaa" and then "Merry Solstice" or whatever. Celebrate diversity and all that. I'm not offended by "Happy Holidays" but it does take some of the merriment out of the season when I realize that they are saying it because their boss told them to. I'd feel the same way (but perhaps more so) if I found out they were saying Merry Christmas because their boss told them to. It's one thing for a manager to encourage his workers to be friendly. It's another to spell out exactly what polite things to say.

It's like the old guy at the front of the Walmart store making sure he says "Welcome to Walmart" to every single customer who walks by. I remember one guy who was so insistent on it that he spoke at a super speed to get it all out before each person walked by. It was nearly unintelligible. I wonder if he worked on Black Friday morning and how that worked out for him.

Sometimes a generic "Happy Holidays" feels a little like that...or the "Have a nice day!" or the classic SNL skit "B'bye." I'm not offended by a "Have a nice day!" but I'm not particularly endeared to it either.

I think that most people who are a bit miffed by the Happy Holidays are more annoyed at it being a corporate policy to ban the phrase "Merry Christmas". It's certainly not an attitude of "if you don't celebrate Christmas you should leave the country." I've NEVER met anyone who expressed that sentiment.

I have met some people who looked at those who got offended by Merry Christmas with a bit of disdain. A sort of "Buck up, I mean no harm by it," attitude. Or even, "I am who I am, and I'll say what I want. Deal with it." I'm not that huffy about it. I'd change my wording if I had any idea that it offended someone. But I still would probably be inwardly shrugging because as much as it's been explained to me by Everard and others I still don't get the energy behind it. I mean, I understand the principle in general but it's hard for me to imagine getting so worked up about it either way. The extremes on both ends seem very foreign to me.

Posts: 3639 | Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
TommySama
Member
Member # 2780

 - posted      Profile for TommySama   Email TommySama       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I will respond to all "Merry Christmas" greetings I get with, "Merry birth of the unconquered sun" and get back to you guys if I'm asked to leave the country [Wink] .


"While I agree that "Happy Holidays" is a bit more inclusive, I believe that "Merry Christmas" does not offend reasonable non-Christians either."

"Happy holidays" ought not offend reasonable Christians, either. I'll stick with the quick jerk of my head upwards while saying, "sup" or "how's it going?" to avoid offending anyone.

I don't mind Merry Christmas; its those bell ringers in front of the grocery store that piss me off.

Posts: 6396 | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Pete at Home
Member
Member # 429

 - posted      Profile for Pete at Home   Email Pete at Home   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Adam, surely you're not seeing anything in that long blarb that actually says what PSRT said that o'reilley said -- i.e. "leave the country if you don’t celebrate Christmas"

Likewise, if Keilor is trying to pull antisemitism out of that, he's a liar, and frankly deserves it if he gets tarred by his own sloppy brush.

Posts: 44193 | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
TommySama
Member
Member # 2780

 - posted      Profile for TommySama   Email TommySama       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
See... I think you're crazy. And here's why. I think the backlash against stores that don't say "Merry Christmas" is enormous because now people are aware of the issue. There's going to be -- it's like the third or fourth year that we've reported it. I know everybody's hypersensitive about are they going to say "Merry Christmas"? Are they going to say "Happy Holidays"? What are they going to say? Are there decorations that say "Merry Christmas"? They're hypersensitive. And when you walk into a secular environment, most Christians are looking around, and they're really aware of it. Now, the other thing is, I don't believe most people who aren't Christian are offended by the words "Merry Christmas." I think those people are nuts. I think you're crazy if you're offended by the words "Merry Christmas."
It seems to me that he is saying most Christians walk into "secular environments," see that it is "secular," get upset and refuse to shop at these places. At first I thought his point was, "you're crazy to do this, because Christians will shop at other places." But then it turns into, "people who are offended by Merry Christmas are crazy." So why is it worse for non Christians to get annoyed with Merry Christmas, but just fine for Christians to get upset by "Happy Holidays?"
Posts: 6396 | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Adam Masterman
Member
Member # 1142

 - posted      Profile for Adam Masterman   Email Adam Masterman   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Adam, surely you're not seeing anything in that long blarb that actually says what PSRT said that o'reilley said -- i.e. "leave the country if you don’t celebrate Christmas"


I wasn't referring to that specific quote at all. Just demonstrating my own observation that the self-proclaimed "Christmas warriors" are intolerant and xenophobic to the point of absurdity.

quote:
Likewise, if Keilor is trying to pull antisemitism out of that, he's a liar, and frankly deserves it if he gets tarred by his own sloppy brush.
" But to say that he's labeling them anti-semites is an overly literal disection of a very improvisational art form (satire). He's just taking their intolerance and running with it a little."

Adam

Posts: 4823 | Registered: Jul 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
ken_in_sc
Member
Member # 6462

 - posted      Profile for ken_in_sc   Email ken_in_sc       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Just for the record, I am not offended by Season’s Greetings or Happy holidays. When I was growing up in the 50s, those comments merely referred to combining both Christmas and New Years in one greeting.
Posts: 159 | Registered: May 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
ken_in_sc
Member
Member # 6462

 - posted      Profile for ken_in_sc   Email ken_in_sc       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
BTW, I should point out, in the 50s, some businesses sent out both Christmas cards and New Year's cards. Sending out Season's Greetings or Happy Holidays cards was a way to save money.
Posts: 159 | Registered: May 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Viking_Longship
Member
Member # 3358

 - posted      Profile for Viking_Longship   Email Viking_Longship       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
What a blessing to live in a country where expectations of customer service are so high that one can expect to be greeted in an inoffensive manner down to the detail.

In Russia anything other than "I'm listening" is remarkably friendly service.

Posts: 5765 | Registered: Dec 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
  This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2   

Quick Reply
Message:

HTML is not enabled.
UBB Code™ is enabled.
UBB Code™ Images not permitted.
Instant Graemlins
   


Post New Topic  Post A Reply Close Topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:


Contact Us | Ornery.org Front Page

Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classic™ 6.7.1