Author Topic: Must be nice  (Read 261 times)

TheDrake

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Must be nice
« on: November 06, 2017, 07:37:41 PM »
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At a hearing in Washington, Judge Amy Berman Jackson said she won't make a decision on both defendants' bail until she receives more information on their financial situation. Once that information is filed, she proposed that pair remain under GPS monitoring, but be allowed to travel in their local area -- the Washington area for Manafort and Richmond, Virginia, for Gates.
Additionally, she proposed they will be prohibited from being near airports and train stations, and will have evening curfews.

I don't quite understand this. At all. These people could easily still have the means to flee. They clearly have international connections of whatever flavor. They get house arrest, but can have the run of the city? Show me the poor black guy allowed to wander all over town for his house arrest. Usually, you get to go to work, school, and very limited other locations as I understand it.

Not to mention that Manafort is trying to buy a get out of house arrest card with $12M.

What am I missing here? I'm not saying that they have to be held without bail in a county jail, but this seems wholly inadequate.


TheDeamon

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Re: Must be nice
« Reply #1 on: November 06, 2017, 10:25:48 PM »
They're getting freedom of movement under house arrest under some flavor of "hardship" claim would be my guess. Due to their substantial and varied interests, keeping them locked up at home "would create an undue hardship" on their business interests.

Joe Blackie has a harder time trying to establish what the nature of his hardship would be.

And I also think "House Arrest" doesn't mean what you think it means. Generally speaking, most people under it are able to leave their home. They're just restricted as to where they go(such as: to work, to get groceries, etc) and when, and may need to either justify or otherwise communicate their movements before hand. It's basically a hyper-aggressive form of either probation or parole, in that they're being monitored constantly.

TheDrake

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Re: Must be nice
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2017, 11:11:05 AM »
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And I also think "House Arrest" doesn't mean what you think it means. Generally speaking, most people under it are able to leave their home. They're just restricted as to where they go(such as: to work, to get groceries, etc) and when, and may need to either justify or otherwise communicate their movements before hand.

You mean exactly like I said? :)

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Usually, you get to go to work, school, and very limited other locations as I understand it.

TheDeamon

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Re: Must be nice
« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2017, 04:40:48 PM »
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And I also think "House Arrest" doesn't mean what you think it means. Generally speaking, most people under it are able to leave their home. They're just restricted as to where they go(such as: to work, to get groceries, etc) and when, and may need to either justify or otherwise communicate their movements before hand.

You mean exactly like I said? :)

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Usually, you get to go to work, school, and very limited other locations as I understand it.

Yeah, caught it on a re-read. But it still cycles back to these guys are multi-millionaires "with diverse business(work) interests" so wandering around DC for them IS "work" as they can justify that as "client relations" among other things, so that travel is "work related" in relation to their business interests.

Much like is Joe Blackie is a Taxi Cab Driver and he's placed on house arrest, assuming there isn't something that (should) prevents him from continuing in that line of work, he'd probably remain free to travel around the DC Metro area as well, as that would be part of his job.

TheDrake

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Re: Must be nice
« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2017, 06:24:14 PM »
you'd think so, but I wonder how often they allow such "my job takes me all over the city" arguments - routine or rare? I honestly don't know the answer.

Searching tends to pick up Manafort links or just general discussions about house arrest. Many of the individuals clearly just lost their jobs when arrested. Picture your hypothetical cab driver. Under suspicion of theft, drug use, dui, assault.... most probably lose their ride. Maybe more likely an Uber driver could get away with it.


Crunch

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Re: Must be nice
« Reply #5 on: November 08, 2017, 09:10:04 AM »
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At a hearing in Washington, Judge Amy Berman Jackson said she won't make a decision on both defendants' bail until she receives more information on their financial situation. Once that information is filed, she proposed that pair remain under GPS monitoring, but be allowed to travel in their local area -- the Washington area for Manafort and Richmond, Virginia, for Gates.
Additionally, she proposed they will be prohibited from being near airports and train stations, and will have evening curfews.

I don't quite understand this. At all. These people could easily still have the means to flee. They clearly have international connections of whatever flavor. They get house arrest, but can have the run of the city? Show me the poor black guy allowed to wander all over town for his house arrest. Usually, you get to go to work, school, and very limited other locations as I understand it.

Not to mention that Manafort is trying to buy a get out of house arrest card with $12M.

What am I missing here? I'm not saying that they have to be held without bail in a county jail, but this seems wholly inadequate.
It’s not about the means to flee, virtually anyone has the means to flee - maybe not in a private jet or other luxuries but it just doesn’t take a lot to run. In fact, it’s people with nothing left to lose, such as poor gangbangers, that tend to flee.

It’s about the flight risk. Is Manafort going to run? Does any reasonable person think these guys are going to make a break for it at this point in the case? Or is it more likely they’ll use their wealth and influence to try and fight, remaining here to do so? The judge figures the odds of them running is pretty minimal and she’s almost certainly correct, they're not going to evade police, at least not at this time. They’re gonna use lawyers. Just n case, gps monitoring is in place so it’s not unreasonable ti have these guys able to move about in a limited area.

Seriati

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Re: Must be nice
« Reply #6 on: November 08, 2017, 05:42:42 PM »
I think what you are missing is that "most people" who post bail are not under house arrest, they're released on their own recognizance.  This is true even for people with some fairly significant charges pending.  The restrictions on them are not intended to punish, which would require they be convicted not just charged, they are only there to ensure they show for the process.

TheDrake

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Re: Must be nice
« Reply #7 on: November 09, 2017, 09:10:02 AM »
I think you'd find that most people are released on bail or bond, not ror.

Seriati

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Re: Must be nice
« Reply #8 on: November 09, 2017, 11:59:57 AM »
You are correct, I was conflating the two.  In any event, what I meant is that most people released are not under house arrest, whether released by bail or ror. 

TheDrake

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Re: Must be nice
« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2017, 12:09:24 PM »
I think in this case, you have to ask, what is sufficient bail or bond? I'm putting up some of my many properties? Bailbonds work because its usually somebody's family home. They won't jump, because their family winds up on the street, or the person who trusted them enough to put it up gets put on the street. That's for serious charges, of course, much lesser bail is available for simple crimes.

Would Manafort give up half his wealth to run to Russia, where he probably has a stash and friends? Possibly. Thus the monitoring and movement restriction.


Seriati

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Re: Must be nice
« Reply #10 on: November 09, 2017, 12:45:27 PM »
I agree, I was mostly reacting to the outrage expressed above that they 'are getting freedom of movement' while under house arrest.  Just pointing out that this is the typical result, not the unusual result.  I think labeling it house arrest is confusing as that's normally related to violent crimes where there is a continuing danger.