Author Topic: Star Wars: The Last Jedi  (Read 4120 times)

Crunch

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Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« on: December 15, 2017, 08:50:37 AM »
General spoiler alert, you've been warned.

I’ve not seen it yet but I have tickets for a showing in a few days. The only thing I know for sure is Carrie Fisher dies.  :o

Twitter is pounding it, a few like it but it seems that most really hated it. Very polarized. Rotten tomatoes has an aggregate rating of 93% right now but the audience score is 65%. Not sure if that’s a good or bad thing yet but that gap between critics and audience generally doesn’t bode well in my experience.

I was not a huge fan of The Force Awakens because it was a rehash of A New Hope - escape Tatooine in the millennium falcon, bar scene, find out you’re a long lost jedi type, blow up death star. Super derivative and mostly boring. Rogue One was much better and I’m hoping the Last Jedi is more like that.

Who’s seen it? How’d you like it?

TheDrake

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2017, 11:15:16 AM »
Going to see it this afternoon, company bought us tickets AND a free small popcorn. :)

The early audience for this film is likely to have a fair proportion of superfans, so their low rating could be for violating some canon of the series of films, books, and fan fiction. Also people with super jacked up expectations.

I'm expecting to see a mildly interesting action film, featuring the disillusioned anti-hero and the fiery acolyte. I've avoided any discussions of the details and trailers.


NobleHunter

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2017, 11:32:32 AM »
Saw it last night. Liked it. Protip: check the run time before going to see a movie at 10:30 on a work night.

It is decidedly not a ESB re-hash. It seems the creative team realized that they needed to do something new. I have no idea what has Star Wars Twitter's knickers in a twist.

Drake, I hate your company in small but significant ways. They must be doing well to afford movie popcorn.

Crunch

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2017, 12:31:47 PM »
. Protip: check the run time before going to see a movie at 10:30 on a work night.

One of the negatives I read was that it was a 90 minute movie stretched into 125 minutes.  Did it feel like it was dragging out? Apparently there’s some super long “horse wrangling” scene that’s kind of pointless.

NobleHunter

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #4 on: December 15, 2017, 12:39:51 PM »
I did not find that scene to be super long. I suppose whether or not it's pointless depends on your point of view.

The movie definitely takes its time going places. I think the structure of the movie is very different from the Marvel movies (and similar blockbusters?). If people have gotten too used to that particular movie dialect, then I could see why they say the movie was dragged out. It's a long movie but enough happens that it needs to be a long movie. Whether or not the movie should include all the things that it does is another point of view question.

Like a lot of middle movies, I suspect proper assessment of its quality can only happen when we get the full context.

JoshuaD

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2017, 03:01:26 PM »
**My post is overflowing with spoilers, read at your own peril**

I saw it last night. I liked it a lot. I think it was better than The Force Awakens.

The horse scene didn't really fit, but it was included to try to develop a new character, I think.  I didn't hate it, but I was waiting for it to end.

They paralleled some scenes from Return of the Jedi and I thought these were done in a really good way. I loved the relationship between Rei and Kylo. They have a scene where they fight as a team and it is great.

I went into the movie with one really big hope - a scene where Luke's power is oppressively strong but understated. A Jedi mirror for the Darth Vader Kills Everyone scene from Rogue One.  Something where he walks into an impossible situation and defuses it effortlessly, but without excessive violence.  Unfortunately, I didn't get this scene. There was a moment when I thought I was getting it, but they tricked the audience.

I didn't like petulant Luke. I think that was a bad decision in writing. Depressed Luke, sure. Afraid Luke, sure. But not petulant. The Jedi are supposed to be wise, and it felt like Luke not only didn't gain wisdom, but he slid back from RoTJ to A New Hope Luke a bit.

I thought the Yoda appearance was a little cheap. I didn't hate it, but I didn't love it.

I think it was a good choice to have Rey's parents be nobodies.

The series of scenes at the end of the movie were incredible. It felt like the movie ended, and we got a few more climaxes after that.

On the whole, I was very happy with it.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2017, 03:05:14 PM by JoshuaD »

JoshCrow

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #6 on: December 16, 2017, 08:19:18 AM »
My generally spoiler-free review:

This is sadly just as mangled as TFA was. Interestingly, in some places is was better, but in others it was actually worse, so it comes out as a wash. I enjoyed scenes with Luke involved, but sadly that wasn't enough of the movie, which had some noticeably "filler" B plots.
There are characters in this film who could simply be removed to make it a better film... like many Jar Jars running around needlessly. I swear to god it felt like at least one of the new cast was some kind of contest winner who won a role in the film.

Also, the plot holes are immensely distracting... the First Order are so laughably incompetent at everything that it's a wonder they could even rule anything, and the Resistance is basically a puny force with nothing going on. There are so many deux ex machinas that it started to drive me crazy... especially when there's a *censored*ing ludicrous situation in space where one ship is giving chase to another and it goes on for-*censored*ing-ever (like, characters in the chase could be drinking tea and running errands... I'm not making this up). It was like watching a golf cart being chased by a bigger golf cart while being pelted with pebbles... for 2/3 of the film.

There are some very unusual third act turns that I think are bad ideas.

Finn was useless. Rey came out a bit better than last film since they bothered to tell us something about her as an individual besides "she kicks ass". Sadly it wasn't very deep. Kylo Ren is still ridiculous and we're "told" a lot more about his turmoil than the actor shows us.

What a waste... these films are really staining the series. I'm actually happy to see that lots of die-hard SW fans are calling it a letdown. The Onion nailed it: https://entertainment.theonion.com/nation-dutifully-gets-in-cars-stands-in-line-watches-1821332268

Crunch

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #7 on: December 16, 2017, 10:15:56 AM »
Wow, the gap between your reviews reflects what I saw on Twitter. I was kind of excited seeing JoshuaD’s review but now JoshCrow’s is bumming me out. It builds good tension as I approach my showtime.  ;D

JoshuaD

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #8 on: December 17, 2017, 12:25:45 AM »
I think it may be about expectations. 

I walked into The Force Awakens expecting a wonderful piece of cinema and I walked out disappointed (I think I wrote about that here two years ago). I walked into The Last Jedi expecting a fun and enjoyable show, and I got more than I hoped for.

I would like it if Star Wars was high cinema. Some space-opera version of the Godfather. But it's never been that. The original series was goofy at times. It had a lot of really great characters and moments, and it also had a lot of silly things.

These last two films have been great when you measure them against things in the same category -- super hero movies, action movies, and comedies.  They fall really short if we measure them against classic films.

When I re-watched the Force Awakens a few days ago, I also really enjoyed it.  I think the key to these movies is to know what you're walking into, and in that category the are amazing.

Gaoics79

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #9 on: December 17, 2017, 06:53:05 AM »
I have zero intention of seeing this movie. I'm done with Star Wars. I am gratified though to hear that Rey is a nobody. To all the people who poo pooed my criticism of TFA and told me that Abrams and his crack writers were hatching some ingenius explanation for what Rey can do in TFA - HA! Serves you right.

I just don't care. Wow, I don't care about Star Wars. I feel like I just renounced a religion or something. But no worries to Disney - I am sure this will make a stupendous amount of money.

Gaoics79

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #10 on: December 17, 2017, 07:13:29 AM »
Sorry, spoiler in my comment above.

cherrypoptart

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #11 on: December 17, 2017, 08:14:01 AM »
"TFA and told me that Abrams and his crack writers were hatching some ingenius explanation for what Rey can do in TFA - HA! Serves you right."

Snoke (Sith no one knew existed) had the explanation and I pretty much called it a long time ago too. The Force itself seeks balance. If there is a powerful dark side character the Force will attempt to balance that by empowering someone to oppose the dark side. It's kind of like in time hopping dramas like The Time Machine movie in which Time itself is acting to keep balance which is why some important elements of the past can't be changed. Or Death in The Final Destination series. Or water and electricity. The same flow may have worked against Luke if he is a too powerful force for good so used angst ridden teen emo Ren to balance Luke out. The druids of D&D had the right idea in that case that the best solution then is becoming true neutral and sticking to it.

I liked all the Star Wars movies and the cartoons too. Yes, even Jar Jar and the Christmas special. But then I am easily amused. It's probably a blessing really.

JoshCrow

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #12 on: December 17, 2017, 12:47:24 PM »
I walked into The Force Awakens expecting a wonderful piece of cinema and I walked out disappointed (I think I wrote about that here two years ago). I walked into The Last Jedi expecting a fun and enjoyable show, and I got more than I hoped for.

I would like it if Star Wars was high cinema. Some space-opera version of the Godfather. But it's never been that. The original series was goofy at times. It had a lot of really great characters and moments, and it also had a lot of silly things.

I've considered whether or not I'm simply annoyed that the latest SW are more "fun-filled, don't-ask-questions" rather than "epic, relatable, character-driven" narratives. But I have to reject that this is my reason for not liking it. I loved Thor Ragnarok, which took a previously serious pair of movies and injected "fun-filled" whiz-bangness into things. I loved Guardians of the Galaxy films, which I think are more Star Wars-y than they appear.

I think in the end it's just that I feel a combination of things at work that I don't like. The characters I loved from Star Wars are being deployed only briefly and cast aside to "make room" for new characters that I have no interest in because I have no history with them (and they didn't really succeed in creating any). Visual spectacles are no longer interesting... they have reached the end of history of a sort, I think. I am not engaged by seeing alien critters shuffling around... I've basically seen them all. Settings and sci-fi details are all "seen-it-before" material. Even the score (like most modern ones) had nothing theme-wise to offer. Everything really hangs on the story, and Last Jedi just doesn't cohere, with plots spinning out to nowhere (that DJ guy... he was a big "so what?"). Rogue One at least had a single, clear objective and a gang of misfits trying to do one thing. TLJ basically spun its wheels for the whole running time, with "endlessly running away (sometimes very slowly) from danger" being the only theme and "deus ex machina" the only way to achieve it, over and over.

*spoilers* Part of it is that the film had a checklist of characters to occupy, diversity concerns to address (can't sideline anybody), and so we had to give Finn and Rose and Poe something to do, though much of it felt like busywork. Then there's Snoke, where they basically rejected a chance to get around the weaknesses of Kylo Ren's tantrums... what a waste. Not that I needed him to be Emperor 2.0, but isn't it good to have one of the villains be... you know... competent? It isn't Hux, and it can't be Ren. Dunno what they can even do with the fools left in charge of the First Order now.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2017, 12:57:49 PM by JoshCrow »

JoshuaD

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #13 on: December 17, 2017, 04:28:56 PM »
That's funny. I enjoyed Thor: Ragnarok, but I was a little disappointed it in becoming "Asgardians of the Galaxy".  They made Thor basically identical to Star Lord in personality, which I thought wasn't a great change. It was fun and funny,  but kind of jarring. And also doesn't make much sense to me given that they're both about to be in the same film. I found Thor's personality from the first movie to be much more funny.

I really enjoyed both Guardians of the Galaxy films. They had a lot of energy and made me smile.

*** Spoilers ***

I was OK with Snoke dying, and I think Kylo Ren may rise to be a good villain yet. In a lot of ways, he succeeded where Vader failed.  I also think Snoke was shown to be powerful.

*** End Spoilers ***

I would've liked it if they did more with Luke, and I agree that I don't feel the need to push the old characters out so quickly, but I don't know.  I had a really good time in the theater, and I'm sure that when I watch it again in a few years I'll have a good time too.

That being said, I don't think you're wrong. I just didn't have that experience. I walked out smiling.

JoshuaD

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #14 on: December 17, 2017, 04:29:26 PM »
Also, can we talk about how Snoke's real identity is Hugh Hefner?  That robe was out of control.

JoshCrow

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #15 on: December 17, 2017, 06:00:12 PM »
*spoilers*
One thing that I thought actually worked were the Force conversations between Rey and Ren. It was a nice plot device insofar as it allows the ostensible hero and villain to have conversations without the stakes of immediate combat. That happens to be a challenge many action films fail to overcome or consider (since naturally it would usually result in immediate duels to the death). They got the hero and villain talking, and that helped improve Rey's overall blandness a little.
I also liked the weird black pit with visions. Shades of what Luke went through back on Dagobah, but I still am sure they could have done a bit more with it besides the one "infinite loop" visual.
I also liked Luke's candid talk about the Jedi. Frankly I can't help but see political parallels wherein by "trying to do good" each political party infuriates the other (honestly I'm mostly thinking about the do-gooder identity-politics liberals creating a reactionary Trump monster).

cherrypoptart

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #16 on: December 17, 2017, 10:29:05 PM »
I think Luke finally figured out that the more good you try to do with the Force the more it fights back to restore the balance so it's a futile effort which is why he cut himself off from the Force altogether. It also explains Ren's behavior and why he killed his father even though he didn't hate Han at all. It's inexplicable except that the dark side of the Force was essentially taking possession of him and corrupting him, turning him for its own purpose which was to restore the balance that got out of whack because of all the good Luke was trying to do, using the Force, with the Jedi academy.

TheDrake

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #17 on: December 18, 2017, 09:11:08 AM »
Why did the bombers all "fall" down when they got destroyed? Is the Dreadnought dense enough to create its own gravity for some reason? Plus, since they clearly have gravity technology (nobody is wearing magnetic boots in these films), wouldn't it make sense to repulse explody things? And why are the bombs dropping at what appear to be 1G?

cherrypoptart

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #18 on: December 18, 2017, 10:24:35 AM »
With all the money they spent on the movie apparently they didn't have enough left over to afford a science advisor the way Star Trek did when they put in the Heisenberg compensators for the transporters. As much as I loved the movie there were all kinds of problems with it. I can't imagine it should be that easy to kill a Sith Lord like Snoke either. He has to have a fine sense of the force and of course he realizes that there is a long history of apprentices murdering their masters so that didn't make a whole lot of sense. Also, why not just use ships at light speed as kinetic energy kamikaze weapons if that's all it took? They could have used the vessels that were running out of fuel a long time ago and let them use the last of their fuel for the light speed jump right into a pursuing ship. I wondered if the shields would have been strong enough to stop it but apparently not.

TheDrake

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #19 on: December 18, 2017, 12:58:29 PM »
Ender would have a field day with how they arrange all their ships into a 2 dimensional plane. :)

ScottF

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #20 on: December 18, 2017, 04:18:07 PM »
Why did the bombers all "fall" down when they got destroyed? Is the Dreadnought dense enough to create its own gravity for some reason? Plus, since they clearly have gravity technology (nobody is wearing magnetic boots in these films), wouldn't it make sense to repulse explody things? And why are the bombs dropping at what appear to be 1G?

I was wondering how many people caught that. Hurry, we have to get over the Dreadnought so we can 'drop' the bombs! There they go, falling down onto the ship. In space.

NobleHunter

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #21 on: December 18, 2017, 04:34:12 PM »
The physics of the chase scene don't really add up either. Fortunately, I managed to completely miss everything except the rebels being able to hear the star destroyers on the planet.

On the other hand, since none of the space combat makes sense, they don't need to spend any effort justifying the hyperspace jump kamikaze.

ScottF

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #22 on: December 18, 2017, 04:45:13 PM »
Yes, given that kamakaze scene, they could have just hyperspaced right through the original death star and saved a lot of time and fuss.

TheDrake

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #23 on: December 18, 2017, 04:58:41 PM »
I was wondering how many people caught that. Hurry, we have to get over the Dreadnought so we can 'drop' the bombs! There they go, falling down onto the ship. In space.

They would have felt ridiculous if they just floated on with their bombs hanging around their own ship.

D.W.

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #24 on: December 19, 2017, 09:45:22 PM »
SPOILERS NON STOP

So first, I enjoyed the movie.  But there were some just weird decisions made for this flick.

Bombs dropping in space?  WTF
Leia is suppose to be strong with the force but... EVA flying back to her ship without a suit?  Umm... WTF?*
*Why strain to keep her alive in an odd new power kinda way when it could have been an impactful way to write her character out after the actress' death?
Leading to:  Why resolve this movie with Leia still alive?  WTF
The "chase" scene, could have been solved by 1 of the 1st order ships jumping ahead to cut them off... right?
As mentioned the hyperspace ramming attack also throws a lot of cannon out the airlock.  At least a token, "We've had our top engineers disable the safety measures blah blah blah."  Nope!
When slicing a giant ship into two, that has a side effect of providing a distraction for 2 captives; I'd like to have 3PO run the odds of every single person on deck being killed or incapacitated other than our 2 heroes. 
Oh, and last; I missed it.  WHAT were they tracking?  I get that the plan was to turn off the scanner doing the tracking, but what were they fixed on?  Did they say?  I assumed Fin had an implant or something, but he got whisked away and nobody on the 1st Order ship commented on the signal moving.




Now, big narrative questions / alternate directions.
So Luke is gone now, or at least is slipping into mentor ghost mode.  Not a terrible decision, but strange.  He basiclly spent the whole movie saying he didn't want to be in this movie, then provided a distraction for the bad guys so the good guys could all run away... 
I was hoping for Kylo Ren to be a sleeper agent that only Luke (and maybe Han or Leia) knew about.  Killing Han in a ploy to get into a position to off Snoke and dismantle / seize control of the 1st order.  No such luck...
Failing that, I was hoping Luke would be more specific in his whole "let the Jedi die" rant, that Rey should become a "grey jedi".  But nope, nothin there either.

NobleHunter

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #25 on: December 20, 2017, 12:02:27 AM »
Fisher didn't die until after the movie was more or less done. They were expecting her to be around to do episode IX.

Fenring

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #26 on: December 20, 2017, 12:05:47 AM »
Failing that, I was hoping Luke would be more specific in his whole "let the Jedi die" rant, that Rey should become a "grey jedi".  But nope, nothin there either.

There was indeed nothing there. All of the fan theories about tie-ins to the prequels, to the Clone Wars cartoons, to anything - zip, nada. They had hyped up the grey Jedi in the cartoons, gone deeper into the new mythos about the balance between light and dark but...nope! Not in this film, and doubtless not in the next. All mysteries are easily solved by - ignoring them or killing off characters! So much easier than planning an arc that's about something. Guaranteed they finished Ep 7 having no clue what they'd do next, and ditto for 8. Like in LOST they're winging it with every installation, and the next guy doesn't have to care what the previous guy did. Except that now the next guy is Abrams again. But luckily he doesn't even care what he did, so he can pretend it was some other guy and call it a day.

ScottF

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #27 on: December 20, 2017, 12:12:10 PM »
I think the storyline would have been infinitely more interesting had Kylo Ren elected to stay tenuously aligned with Rey after their joint fight scene. l can envision all kinds of interesting scenarios where he's kinda sorta on the side of good but does random dark stuff for compelling tension. Now he's just pigeon-holed as Anakin lite.

NobleHunter

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #28 on: December 20, 2017, 02:23:42 PM »
Except Anakin never seized the imperial throne. In terms of political power, Kylo Ren has surpassed Vader. While an attempt to return to the light would be interesting, there's also potential for something scenarios with him in charge of the First Order.

Fenring

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #29 on: December 20, 2017, 02:29:29 PM »
I think the storyline would have been infinitely more interesting had Kylo Ren elected to stay tenuously aligned with Rey after their joint fight scene. l can envision all kinds of interesting scenarios where he's kinda sorta on the side of good but does random dark stuff for compelling tension. Now he's just pigeon-holed as Anakin lite.

It would have been far better if, unlike Luke in Ep 5, Rey had accepted Kylo's offer. This could have made sense especially after her having to deal with the tedious scripting on Luke's planet. Then the next film could have been about taking down a duo of light/dark Jedi and the Mary Sue thing could finally end. But no, she had to be perfect again and refuse. Sigh.

Seriati

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #30 on: December 24, 2017, 06:21:52 PM »
****SPOILERS*****

Enjoyed this one quite a bit.  Feels like they took some risks to break from the traditional narrative format.  Of course it didn't fully work, lots of technical problems to me. 

I mean there's about a million things wrong with the White Bronco chase.  I can forgive them the micro-jump problem, there's never been anything established that suggests that micro jumps are legitimately possible.  But this is the second time in 2 movies they've used a hyperspace jump to solve a problem that would have been very useful in the prior movie (jumping inside a force field).

I can't forgive a fleet of star destroyers and a "mother" ship that makes them look like clown cars not being able to launch enough fighters to take down a single "Resistance" Cruiser.  I find it difficult to forgive that they seem to have forgotten that traveling through hyperspace takes time.  The trip off to the casino and back happened awfully quickly.

The horse scene didn't really fit, but it was included to try to develop a new character, I think.  I didn't hate it, but I was waiting for it to end.

Don't get why people didn't like this scene.  They didn't overdue it, ala pod racing.  It was just a fun little bit of chaos.

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I went into the movie with one really big hope - a scene where Luke's power is oppressively strong but understated. A Jedi mirror for the Darth Vader Kills Everyone scene from Rogue One.  Something where he walks into an impossible situation and defuses it effortlessly, but without excessive violence.  Unfortunately, I didn't get this scene. There was a moment when I thought I was getting it, but they tricked the audience.

Thought that was a pretty decent scene.  Also found it as obvious as the Sixth Sense, I made one mistake in it though, I thought he was a force ghost from the time he walked out of the crater, didn't think about his status on the way in.  Still pretty cool, they tried to keep you guessing about whether he could get there with the X-wing in the water.

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I didn't like petulant Luke. I think that was a bad decision in writing. Depressed Luke, sure. Afraid Luke, sure. But not petulant. The Jedi are supposed to be wise, and it felt like Luke not only didn't gain wisdom, but he slid back from RoTJ to A New Hope Luke a bit.

Luke's always been petulant that wasn't a character change to me.  I can see how being responsible for your own nephew falling to the dark side and murdering your students may make you a bit bitter.  Seems like Jedi's and using your brains don't go together (see the comments on the prequels about the idea that after 10k years of Jedi ascendance a prophecy of bringing "balance" to the force should be seen as a good thing).

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I think it was a good choice to have Rey's parents be nobodies.

It's interesting to me that this is taken at face value.  By that logic Vader betrayed and murdered Luke's father.  All we have is Darth Emo's word that her parents were nobodies, at a time when he was trying to emotionally manipulate her into believing that he was only one that really values her.  Maybe it's true, but then again maybe it's not.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2017, 06:26:50 PM by Seriati »

Seriati

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #31 on: December 24, 2017, 06:44:27 PM »
***** SPOILERS*****

There are characters in this film who could simply be removed to make it a better film... like many Jar Jars running around needlessly. I swear to god it felt like at least one of the new cast was some kind of contest winner who won a role in the film.

Not sure who the contest winner was.  Liked seeing Billy Lourdes getting a role.  Didn't need to add the Pokémon to the Falcon.

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Also, the plot holes are immensely distracting... the First Order are so laughably incompetent at everything that it's a wonder they could even rule anything, and the Resistance is basically a puny force with nothing going on.

Bothered me too.  I mean the Republic was a galaxy spanning civilization, surely it had more than one planet with loyalists on it.  Were all of their ships sitting in dry dock?  I get losing your capital would be disruptive, but the Rebellion, which as formed in secret was better organized than the Republic which was actually the government.  How can the crazies in the First Order find a never ending stream of blindly loyal troopers and the Republic/Resistance not manage to find any?

And I agree on the whole slow poke bombers and gravity problems.  Remember Tie Bombers?  They shot energy bombs downwards.  Y-wings shot them forward right?  These things clearly were WWII style, complete with ball gunners (who as far as I could tell were useless).  In fact the bombers themselves seemed pretty useless and largely just "easy" targets.  And once again, we have Poe Dameron flying an x-wing like no other pilot in the universe matters.  Don't know why they don't just let him take on fleets by himself all the time.

Really like Laura Dern's character.  Would have been happy to see more of her.

Didn't really enjoy the connection between Rey and Darth Emo.  Seemed like trying too hard to redeem him just to evoke the parallel to Vader with Luke.  But the thing about Vader is he was a complicated character, he came to the Dark Side out of a sense of justice, most of the others are seeking power.  Darth Emo is what?  A teen looking for approval?  That's the dumbest back story for a Sith Lord I've ever heard.  Especially since he seems to have had it at home (or a least we can infer he didn't feel a lack from his failure to accuse his father of failing him).

JoshCrow

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #32 on: December 24, 2017, 08:23:04 PM »

Not sure who the contest winner was. 

I was referring to the actress who played Rose. It's a shame, since we rarely get asian actresses in big-time films, but I thought she was just awful. When she kissed Finn at the end I hadn't even noticed that it was supposed to be expected... there was nothing about the performances (and I blame Finn's actor too) that even suggested romance. The entire subplot involving them essentially could have been removed wholesale and not even affected the plot. I think the writers just wanted to find something for Finn to do since they had invested in a character in TFA who was obviously peripheral to everything major going on.

Not that I thought Poe was much better even though they expanded his role a lot. I still couldn't tell you a single thought in his head, or what his life is like except rehearsing 'yo mama' jokes in the mirror.

Come to think of it, it feels like the whole movie is peripheral. I suspect that five years from now many people who "love" this film will have dialed that back to "it was ok", whereas the people who hate it will still hate it.

When do we get crunch's review?
« Last Edit: December 24, 2017, 08:26:08 PM by JoshCrow »

Fenring

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #33 on: December 25, 2017, 10:49:50 AM »
Seconding JoshCrow's comment about Rose, I also thought that Laura Dern phoned it in so badly that it was impossible to tell at any given point whether she was (a) a wily villain, (b) a simpering coward, (c) a taciturn strategist, or (d) reciting her lines with no intention at all. I vote for (d) since, like Josh said about Poe, I couldn't tell you for a moment what any single thought she had might have been. I don't think she had any thoughts. When she pulled a blaster and started firing it made a case for (a) but in the end the scripting was simply a failure and the entire scene made no sense. My god she was bad, but in a different way from Rose. Rose was trying but came out looking terrible, whereas Dern didn't even look like she was trying, or cared.

cherrypoptart

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #34 on: December 25, 2017, 11:13:26 AM »
I thought Rose kissing Fin was a very dangerous move on her part because if he wasn't feeling it, not only could it be considered an unwanted sexual advance and sexual harassment but it's probably even sexual assault. I didn't see anything about his behavior where he encouraged her at all. Hopefully it will all work out in spit of political correctness demanding otherwise.

Crunch

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #35 on: December 25, 2017, 12:25:36 PM »
Ok, I saw it. I wish I hadn’t. Truly awful.

What was up with all the attempted humor?  Bordering on slapstick at times, these “jokes” completely disrupted the flow of the movie. For God’s sake, they demoted Chewbacca to Jar Jar Binks status. This alone would have been sufficient to ruin the movie but they didn’t stop there. Hey, who would be happy to never see Kylo Ren topless again? Was his missing belly button another joke?

Can we all recognize that this was literally a bad remake of Empire Strikes Back? In the original, Luke goes off to become a Jedi and everyone else handles the second part of the story. In this one, we get at least 4 story lines - no doubt why it ran nearly 3 hours. Even with that run time, there wasn’t enough to truly develop any of them. We just lurch from line to line, never fully developing any of them.

Leia survives hard vacuum to miraculously fly like superman back to medical (presumably due to her use of the force). Someone in the theater loudly exclaimed, “you gotta be *censored*ing kidding me”. Nobody shushed him because he was just saying what we were all thinking.

Laura Dern. I blame the director for her performance because she’s way better than that mess she turned in as ... what was she? Who was she? Why did I care she sacrificed herself?

This may, shockingly, be the worst installment of the Star Wars franchise. Lucas must be feeling pretty schadenfrudey now.

Pete at Home

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #36 on: December 25, 2017, 07:27:17 PM »
Exie took me and the boys to see it today.  Loved it.  I didn't love Ep 7.

Yes there are echoes to Empire Strikes Back.  But remake it was not.  It's called continuity.  It makes sense that someone seeking Jedi training in the middle of a losing war when they are thrice the age of a traditional recruit would face similar emotional and spiritual challenges.  But her response to those challenges, and the nature of her teacher were totally different.

If Lucas is having fits about it, it's because this show and Rogue One added moral complexity to a previously one-dimensional franchise. 

I don't remember any jokes.  The funniest point in the movie was when Laura Dern light-sped through the super-destroyer, and in the middle of a 4 second silence in the theater, some 7 year old kid's voice pipes up and said what we were all feeling: "Holy Crap!" :D  The whole theater guffawed.

For the first time ever, I LOVED Yoda.

Pete at Home

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #37 on: December 25, 2017, 07:31:53 PM »
General spoiler alert, you've been warned.

I’ve not seen it yet but I have tickets for a showing in a few days. The only thing I know for sure is Carrie Fisher dies.  :o

I kept expecting Leia to die or disappear midmovie too, and it was eerie the way she kept going.  Weekend at Carrie's.

Pete at Home

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #38 on: December 25, 2017, 07:35:14 PM »
Yes, given that kamakaze scene, they could have just hyperspaced right through the original death star and saved a lot of time and fuss.

Since SW is more fantasy than sci-fi, it's rare to see a physics criticism of the show that's so easily rebutted.
Relative mass, Scott.

Even in New Hope, they made clear that the Death Star was armed so that nothing larger than a fighter could get close.  No matter how fast you shoot a grain of dust, it's still not going to kill a blue whale.

Pete at Home

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #39 on: December 25, 2017, 07:42:08 PM »
"TFA and told me that Abrams and his crack writers were hatching some ingenius explanation for what Rey can do in TFA - HA! Serves you right."

Snoke (Sith no one knew existed) had the explanation and I pretty much called it a long time ago too. The Force itself seeks balance. If there is a powerful dark side character the Force will attempt to balance that by empowering someone to oppose the dark side. It's kind of like in time hopping dramas like The Time Machine movie in which Time itself is acting to keep balance which is why some important elements of the past can't be changed. Or Death in The Final Destination series. Or water and electricity. The same flow may have worked against Luke if he is a too powerful force for good so used angst ridden teen emo Ren to balance Luke out. The druids of D&D had the right idea in that case that the best solution then is becoming true neutral and sticking to it.

That was my response to Episode III, Revenge of the Sith.  Darth Vader "brought balance to the Force" by killing off most of the Jedi, and then ending the Emperor and himself.

D.W.

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #40 on: December 25, 2017, 09:44:57 PM »
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Darth Emo is what?  A teen looking for approval?  That's the dumbest back story for a Sith Lord I've ever heard.  Especially since he seems to have had it at home (or a least we can infer he didn't feel a lack from his failure to accuse his father of failing him).
This was exactly why I was REALY hoping he was a sleeper agent sent by Luke / His parents.  THAT would have been a cool twist, but maybe too deep/dark for a "kids movie".

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Leia survives hard vacuum to miraculously fly like superman back to medical (presumably due to her use of the force). Someone in the theater loudly exclaimed, “you gotta be *censored*ing kidding me”. Nobody shushed him because he was just saying what we were all thinking.
Maybe she tried to pull the ship to her?  At least that wouldn't be a totally unheard of application of the force...  But I gotta agree.  I certainly was thinking that.

Seriati

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #41 on: December 26, 2017, 10:10:09 AM »
Grats to CherryPopTart on the best comment on the thread.

I was referring to the actress who played Rose. It's a shame, since we rarely get asian actresses in big-time films, but I thought she was just awful. When she kissed Finn at the end I hadn't even noticed that it was supposed to be expected... there was nothing about the performances (and I blame Finn's actor too) that even suggested romance.

Well she was literally cast as a fan girl of the resistance heroes.  Hollywood writers are going to write what they know, and fan girls are part of it.  She "proved" that she was something more by not letting him get away (a true fan girl would've gone with him).  Not saying it's a great character, but it is what a Hollywood writer would know.

I think the kiss was supposed to be untelegraphed.  Finn legitimately didn't know why she saved him, she always saw him as a hero (even when she was disappointed), but he never believed he could be one, till he found himself committing to a suicide run.  Finn's reevaluating his life.

That said, I agree their whole side trip was unnecessary.  The only reason they did it was to move the plot "forward" by bringing in a person who could betray the plan.  To me a better way to do the same thing would have been to have a spy who was involved in the tracking plot.  Leia's magic wristwatch already demonstrated that such a device could have been used by the Emperials.  Give one to an agent, who could have volunteered with the code cracking knowledge to get them into Snopes ship (and who'd want to get home before the Resistance was crushed) and you have a plausible story.  Only reason they didn't do it that way, was the fact that such a person would have betrayed them at the first opportunity and not late in the game.  Wasn't clear to me if they were betrayed after they were caught, or because they got caught. 

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Not that I thought Poe was much better even though they expanded his role a lot. I still couldn't tell you a single thought in his head, or what his life is like except rehearsing 'yo mama' jokes in the mirror.

Poe's been a complaint of mine in both movies.  Somehow physics don't apply when he's in the cockpit, he can't miss a shot (and never waits for his targetting device - couldn't with the speed he blows target after target in a row).  Despite the "much bigger" ships (funny how the Empire couldn't build "Dreadnaughts" that can take out any ship in one hit despite galaxy wide resources), the scale seems smaller.  Watch a star destroyer run by a fighter from the original trilogy it takes time.  I find it hard to believe that a Dreadnaught wouldn't have an internal weapons emplacements that couldn't be easily stripped, especially since it looked like you could accurately track and hit a bomber with a baseball if you wanted to.

Seriati

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #42 on: December 26, 2017, 10:12:59 AM »
I also thought that Laura Dern phoned it in so badly that it was impossible to tell at any given point whether she was (a) a wily villain, (b) a simpering coward, (c) a taciturn strategist, or (d) reciting her lines with no intention at all. I vote for (d) since, like Josh said about Poe, I couldn't tell you for a moment what any single thought she had might have been. I don't think she had any thoughts. When she pulled a blaster and started firing it made a case for (a) but in the end the scripting was simply a failure and the entire scene made no sense. My god she was bad, but in a different way from Rose. Rose was trying but came out looking terrible, whereas Dern didn't even look like she was trying, or cared.

I must be a bad judge, I really liked Dern's character.  I thought she came across as a complex, an admiral with a back story, clearly admiring and even attracted to a reckless pilot but having the wisdom to both recognize the folly and to redress him in a manner that he needed.  Outmanuevered for a few minutes, but able to counter-plan and get her plan back on track.  Like I said, I really liked her.

Fenring

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #43 on: December 26, 2017, 10:35:07 AM »
I also thought that Laura Dern phoned it in so badly that it was impossible to tell at any given point whether she was (a) a wily villain, (b) a simpering coward, (c) a taciturn strategist, or (d) reciting her lines with no intention at all. I vote for (d) since, like Josh said about Poe, I couldn't tell you for a moment what any single thought she had might have been. I don't think she had any thoughts. When she pulled a blaster and started firing it made a case for (a) but in the end the scripting was simply a failure and the entire scene made no sense. My god she was bad, but in a different way from Rose. Rose was trying but came out looking terrible, whereas Dern didn't even look like she was trying, or cared.

I must be a bad judge, I really liked Dern's character.  I thought she came across as a complex, an admiral with a back story, clearly admiring and even attracted to a reckless pilot but having the wisdom to both recognize the folly and to redress him in a manner that he needed.  Outmanuevered for a few minutes, but able to counter-plan and get her plan back on track.  Like I said, I really liked her.

Perhaps it's subjective whether you enjoyed what the actress did. But the actual character arc was a blatant cheat with the writing and direction more or less lying to us to pull a bait and switch about her motives. In any action/hero film when a hero is established and 'knows what to do' we're supped to take it as a given that they do. If you watch some movie like that and begin to second-guess or question each action taken by the heroes then the film falls apart because in the end it's all fiction and it rarely makes 'real sense' anyhow. Everyday logic doesn't apply, even though in-universe rules are ideally consistent. Based on our 'film training' and also our understanding of the importance of the 'rebel spirit' Poe was portrayed from A to Z as The Guy Who Knows How to Kick Butt. Even when his bombing run is criticized the film seems to not let him go as a hero. Finn struggles with whether he's seen as a hero or not, but not Poe: he's a hero, no questions asked, like a mix between Han Solo and Wedge. That's the character bible and it never ceased being that. Even when Leia said he's wrong somehow we knew he wasn't on some level, and later on he takes on a leadership role without question, despite a demotion. When Dern is portrayed having no clue what to do as fuel runs out, and cannot answer even simple questions about whether they have a plan, the script writing is indicating in every way that she's clueless and is going to let the fleet die rather than take a chance. Only due to a writer's deus ex machina did she magically have a plan after all, and refuse to tell anyone, using a tech we didn't know existed, and didn't even claim to have a plan, or look like she knew what she was doing, all so that Poe could magically be shown to be utterly in error and a traitor (in effect). Great. Nothing in the actress's performance showed any of this, or the wily cunning to know she was holding a secret, or the wisdom to know she had to keep her cards to herself, or even a reason for doing so. Nada, zip. She just sat there looking blank-faced and wouldn't talk to her crew and didn't even play for the audience her intent - and yes, as an actor it's a standard skill to be able to obscure information from the other characters while still providing it to the audience. So either she didn't know the script, or wasn't capable of doing this, or the director was cheating us by effectively lying about the given circumstances and her motivations, all to shame us into having been rooting for Poe in the first place and realize we're as foolish as him. Except we're not, because we were going based on the information we had, and unlike him the audience doesn't have to respect a chain of command. When we come out looking dumb it's the script that's dumb, not us. This was no case of us making unwarranted assumptions and having those assumptions shoved in our faces. We made totally warranted assumptions and had them shoved in our faces. This is the same schtick they pulled on LOST over and over, pulling the rug out from under us just because they had the Bugs Bunny power of the paint brush. Thanks for nothing.

Seriati

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #44 on: December 26, 2017, 12:12:27 PM »
Perhaps it's subjective whether you enjoyed what the actress did. But the actual character arc was a blatant cheat with the writing and direction more or less lying to us to pull a bait and switch about her motives.

My response to that is, she's an Admiral.  Read a space opera based on the military (I enjoy the Honor Harrington stuff).  Admiral's can be wrong, or idiots, but they're not in the habit of tolerating being questioned by Commanders and Captains.  Can you picture Poe acting like that to Ackbar?  If your answer is no, then the rest of your response doesn't make sense.  The gap between Admiral and Commander is very large.

It wasn't a cheat that she didn't explain herself.  The cheat was that she didn't throw him in the brig.

Honestly, if Poe really got to the rank of Commander he'd have known better.

There was a reason they promoted Han and Lando to be Generals in Return of the Jedi.  Meanwhile even with the resistance down to one ship Poe is demoted because he has demonstrated a complete lack of strategic judgment - specifically the characteristic that an Admiral needs.

Remember this too, without Poe's support Finn and Rose's mission would not have occurred, and  the Admiral's plan would have saved all 30 transports because the First Order needed to be told to find the cloaked ships.  Against that back drop it was irresponsible to not put him in the Brig (or bring him in), but the blame for those deaths is on Poe.

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In any action/hero film when a hero is established and 'knows what to do' we're supped to take it as a given that they do. If you watch some movie like that and begin to second-guess or question each action taken by the heroes then the film falls apart because in the end it's all fiction and it rarely makes 'real sense' anyhow. Everyday logic doesn't apply, even though in-universe rules are ideally consistent. Based on our 'film training' and also our understanding of the importance of the 'rebel spirit' Poe was portrayed from A to Z as The Guy Who Knows How to Kick Butt. Even when his bombing run is criticized the film seems to not let him go as a hero.

The point of this film is "growing up".  Finn has to realized he does care enough to be a hero (which he does).  Poe has to learn that strategy exists separate from tactics (which he shows by calling off the attack on the Ram, which Ironically Finn ignores to learn his lesson, but there's nothing in Poe's acting that shows him learning - other than his repeated failures (big hammer with Yoda telling you failure is the best teacher)).  Rey has to learn that she doesn't need a master to tell her what to do, or missing parents to define her, that she has to trust herself, follow her feelings and do what she thinks is right.

Yes, they had to break the infalliable hero takes on the entire Empire meme to learn that lesson.  And perhaps to teach the audiance?  No.  The infallable heroes will be back for the next film.

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Finn struggles with whether he's seen as a hero or not, but not Poe: he's a hero, no questions asked, like a mix between Han Solo and Wedge. That's the character bible and it never ceased being that. Even when Leia said he's wrong somehow we knew he wasn't on some level, and later on he takes on a leadership role without question, despite a demotion.

Because he is a leader.  But so is every officer (granted some better some worse).  Big difference between a leader and a general (or in this case Admiral).

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When Dern is portrayed having no clue what to do as fuel runs out, and cannot answer even simple questions about whether they have a plan, the script writing is indicating in every way that she's clueless and is going to let the fleet die rather than take a chance.

Maybe this is the distinction then, why I thought she did such a good job.  I didn't fall for that.  She's an admiral, she had a plan, and it was a good one.  Poe second guessing an Admiral that I thought he knew the reputation of (and wasn't it for heroism?) because he "knows better" is exactly why he was a danger.  C3P0 had it right when he didn't want to be part of a mutiny.

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Only due to a writer's deus ex machina did she magically have a plan after all, and refuse to tell anyone, using a tech we didn't know existed, and didn't even claim to have a plan, or look like she knew what she was doing, all so that Poe could magically be shown to be utterly in error and a traitor (in effect). Great.

I get the anger there.  Once the plan's in motion, maybe even before, there's not really a need for secrecy.  That's a plot hole.  But so are a dozen other things that existed solely to put people onto Snope's ship.

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Nothing in the actress's performance showed any of this, or the wily cunning to know she was holding a secret, or the wisdom to know she had to keep her cards to herself, or even a reason for doing so. Nada, zip.

Again, maybe it's because I was looking for her to portray an Admiral, and that's exactly what I saw.  If anything she was too tolerant of his antics, but she even portrayed that with her smiles for the romance of being a hot shot bad boy pilot.  I seem to be alone on this based on the internet.

Maybe it'll look different when I see the movie again.

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This was no case of us making unwarranted assumptions and having those assumptions shoved in our faces. We made totally warranted assumptions and had them shoved in our faces. This is the same schtick they pulled on LOST over and over, pulling the rug out from under us just because they had the Bugs Bunny power of the paint brush. Thanks for nothing.

I'm not sure what "warranted assumptions" were made?  That a commander was in charge over the Admirals, Generals and Civilian leaders in the group?  Heck, even a ship's captain going to outrank Poe.  I get the confusion started with Luke, and his outsized role based on rank (who's Poe's model for character - even though he can outfly Luke and every other rebel pilot).  But while Luke's out sized authority based on his rank could be attached to being a literal hero of the Rebellion (just like Poe) he was also carrying a light saber and developing force powers, which likely had more to do with it.  Honestly, Poe got way more lee way than his rank deserved, he disobeyed the commands of the fleet leadership and got a bunch of people killed (granted he achieved his target) and only got demoted.

TheDrake

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #45 on: December 26, 2017, 01:06:43 PM »
Another thought -

There's a huge difference between Star Wars and other sci-fi. In Star Wars the engineers are either invisible or don't exist. In the tracking situation, the Star Trek captain would have dozens of people trying to figure how they got tracked, can it be countered, etc, so they could jump to safety. In Star Wars its like they just kind of inherited the technology from a witch doctor somewhere. The only time anything gets repaired is when a droid rams its head into a panel or something.

Maybe there are no engineers dumb enough to get on a rebel vessel. :)

Fenring

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #46 on: December 26, 2017, 01:45:51 PM »
Seriati, the huge difference in tone in the strategic planning here vs the original trilogy is palpable. What we're used to from before is the that Rebels, unlike the Imperials, confer and work together on problems, and no one is too small to contribute. It's the exact opposite of a "you don't need to know" club, where even Luke, the new guy, is allowed to contribute his input on the attack on the Death Star. It's not just a cold chain of command, but a group of people who care about each other. They do need to follow orders, but they don't have 'superiors' in the sense of anyone being better than anyone else. Keeping a squadron commander in the dark when it's his job to protect the fleet is simply ridiculous. Obvious someone like him (or Wedge, previously) has the field authority to implement plans of action that he authorizes, and in order for him to do this efficiently he needs to be in the loop for command-level decisions; otherwise his tactics will be ill-aimed. In the bombing run he defiantly disobeyed orders, and that speaks to his character, but regardless of how rebellious he is (and we can see that Leia sees Han in him) he's still a top-level instrument of their defense and keeping him *totally* in the dark makes no sense other than to fool the audience. It's a cheat, and in-universe makes her come off as a total moron. An admiral doesn't answer to a commander, but only a fool gives their lieutenants the wrong impression of their tactical situation.

As for Poe getting away with too much, you're right about that, and I consider it another script weakness. He's pidgeonholed as "the hero" and nothing anyone says seems to change that so he gets away with everything. It made it all the more frustrating that they were treating him like a VIP but also like a peon at the same time.

As far as "she's an admiral" and keeping her cards close to her chest, when those cards consist of a tech never seen in a film before it may as well have been Gandalf teleporting in and waving a wand. Inventing magical technology that's kept from everyone and used as a "surprise" to save the day is bad story writing. It's good if there are clues that we can use to possibly guess or solve it, or if it's an interest re-configuring of a tech we already know. "Oh - I never thought of that!" would be a great reaction to have. But here what I felt was "huh. Whatever." Not good.

As a side note, I think part of the point of Solo and Calrissian being Generals in Jedi isn't so much that they were promoted, as they needed to have that rank to accord them to authority to match their skills. It was less of a military hierarchy and more of a way of recognizing that they were valuable and needed some official standing to demonstrate that. Poe should have been exactly the same, except he was kept as a Wedge instead of a Han Solo, and obviously the narrative of him being the grand hero chaffed against the fact that he was merely a subordinate. I don't think anything good came of that chaffing other than, as I believe, the script contriving to make him be wrong when based on what we were seeing he appeared to be right.

Pete at Home

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #47 on: December 26, 2017, 02:57:24 PM »
Another thought -

There's a huge difference between Star Wars and other sci-fi. In Star Wars the engineers are either invisible or don't exist. In the tracking situation, the Star Trek captain would have dozens of people trying to figure how they got tracked, can it be countered, etc, so they could jump to safety. In Star Wars its like they just kind of inherited the technology from a witch doctor somewhere. The only time anything gets repaired is when a droid rams its head into a panel or something.

Maybe there are no engineers dumb enough to get on a rebel vessel. :)

The only part of this show I loathed was when Poe's bot (does it have a name) is trying to fix something and they made it look like the proverbial dutch boy sticking fingers into a dike to stop the leaking. Leaking sparks rather than electrons.  I know it was supposed to be funny, but pink panther physics seems out of place even for a star wars.

Crunch

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #48 on: December 26, 2017, 03:43:37 PM »
Another thought -

There's a huge difference between Star Wars and other sci-fi.

The reason fir that is, I don’t think Star Wars is sci-fi. It’s fantasy.

Isaac Asimov, once asked to explain the difference between science fiction and fantasy, replied that science fiction, given its grounding in science, is possible; fantasy, which has no grounding in reality, is not.
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Star Wars falls into the sub genre of "space opera," which takes many of its elements from adventure fiction. Space opera involves plots, battles, characters and abilities on a huge, dramatic scale, all of which is true of Star Wars. Technology and other scientific elements in Star Wars are often scientifically inaccurate or merely given a scientific flavor; for example, the midi-chlorian explanation for Force-sensitivity.


D.W.

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #49 on: December 26, 2017, 05:24:30 PM »
In the now "no longer cannon" history of Star Wars, the galaxy has been space-faring for as long as anyone can remember.  The Drake may be onto something about the engineers.  Though, the counter argument would be that the Empire is constantly trying to one up themselves with bigger weapons or bigger ships.  The underlying tech though seems to have stagnated for millennia.

Crunch nailed it.  This is fantasy that hand waves the tech and adds actual space-magic as the true measure of power.