Author Topic: Veto Theatrics  (Read 136 times)

TheDrake

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Veto Theatrics
« on: March 14, 2019, 06:30:43 PM »
Okay, I wonder what we are in for. I mean, Trump isn't just going to sign a piece of paper in seclusion about his signature issue. Will he stage an event surrounded by family members of people killed by immigrants? Give new nicknames to the Republicans who opposed him in a long rambling speech? Attack the judicial system in advance some more?

Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe he'll be low key about all of it. But I doubt it.

DonaldD

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Re: Veto Theatrics
« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2019, 07:43:48 PM »
Isn't the presidential veto the act of NOT signing a piece of paper? 

D.W.

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Re: Veto Theatrics
« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2019, 08:12:02 PM »
That's way too anticlimactic.  I think TheDrake is right, we're in for some sorta theatrics.  (or more theatrics if you are inclined to see the rebuke as theatrics in itself.)

TheDeamon

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Re: Veto Theatrics
« Reply #3 on: March 14, 2019, 08:19:15 PM »
Isn't the presidential veto the act of NOT signing a piece of paper?

No. A Veto is a Veto which congress can over-ride.

The President can refuse to sign a bill, but depending on the timing of when the bill hits his desk, and whether or not Congress is "in session" at the time, the bill may or may not become law.

IIRC, without looking it up, if they're in session and he doesn't sign it(within 10 days?), it will become law.

DonaldD

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Re: Veto Theatrics
« Reply #4 on: March 14, 2019, 09:16:08 PM »
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No. A Veto is a Veto which congress can over-ride.
This is a meaningless tautology.  What, specifically, comprises the positive act of a presidential veto, and does this act involve "[signing] a piece of paper"?

Note that stating his objections in writing and returning the bill to congress does not in practice involve signing anything, so staging an event where Trump torturously writes down his objections to a legal document would not likely be the television masterpiece to rally his troops and garner ratings...

TheDeamon

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Re: Veto Theatrics
« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2019, 12:30:49 AM »
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No. A Veto is a Veto which congress can over-ride.
This is a meaningless tautology.  What, specifically, comprises the positive act of a presidential veto, and does this act involve "[signing] a piece of paper"?

I don't know the technical specifics of the process. I just know a "Veto" triggers a process which sends the bill back to Congress where they can attempt to over-ride it, or let it die.

The president has a couple other options available as well depending on circumstances, but only one of them is valid for Trump at this time. IIRC, that other option makes the bill into law after a certain number of days, just without his signature.

DonaldD

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Re: Veto Theatrics
« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2019, 06:12:56 AM »
One could think of the veto as a decision not to sign a bill into law, but the only act associated with a veto is sending it back to congress, essentially with markups.  In a practical sense, the act of returning it to congress is the actual veto of a bill.  There is no other action involved.

TheDrake

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Re: Veto Theatrics
« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2019, 12:29:57 PM »
Isn't the presidential veto the act of NOT signing a piece of paper?

You're thinking of a pocket veto, which has weird limitations. It also hasn't really been used since HW.

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pocket veto - The Constitution grants the president 10 days to review a measure passed by the Congress. If the president has not signed the bill after 10 days, it becomes law without his signature. However, if Congress adjourns during the 10-day period, the bill does not become law.

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veto - The procedure established under the Constitution by which the president refuses to approve a bill or joint resolution and thus prevents its enactment into law. A regular veto occurs when the president returns the legislation to the house in which it originated. The president usually returns a vetoed bill with a message indicating his reasons for rejecting the measure.

I actually didn't realize that a President can just ignore legislation and it becomes law. They skipped that part in Schoolhouse Rock.

TheDrake

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Re: Veto Theatrics
« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2019, 12:37:51 PM »
Note that stating his objections in writing and returning the bill to congress does not in practice involve signing anything, so staging an event where Trump torturously writes down his objections to a legal document would not likely be the television masterpiece to rally his troops and garner ratings...

You do remember when Trump opened a novelty sized envelope from North Korea, yes?

Or the letter he wrote to Pelosi about the SOTU?

It may not be a TV event. It might be a twitter and a publication of his vitriol filled message accompanying his veto. Or he could hold a rally and have an 8 ft high National Emergency message to Congress and sign it with a Magnum Sharpie. Or he might invent some new kind of racial slur.

D.W.

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Re: Veto Theatrics
« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2019, 12:57:03 PM »
Or an open threat to "traitor" Republicans and all the Democrats that "the people" are gonna teach them a lesson?  ;)

TheDrake

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Re: Veto Theatrics
« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2019, 07:18:21 PM »
Well, we have it now.

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Note that stating his objections in writing and returning the bill to congress does not in practice involve signing anything, so staging an event where Trump torturously writes down his objections to a legal document would not likely be the television masterpiece to rally his troops and garner ratings...

Oh, so you thought.

He did indeed have a signing ceremony for his veto, unless he accidentally signed the bill. He was surrounded by a bunch of people:

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We’re grateful to be joined today by the Vice President — thank you very much, Mike, for being here — members of my Cabinet, devoted public servants, and Angel parents.

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We’re joined today by many brave law enforcement officers, including sheriffs and just people that have been just tremendous, tremendous backers of law and order, which we have to have.

Called it!

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MS. MENDOZA:  My son was killed in 2014 by a repeat illegal alien criminal allowed to stay in this country.  He was police officer in Mesa, Arizona.

And Angel Families come forward to tell their stories not because we’ve created a manufactured crisis but because we want to tell the American people and share with you our heartache and let you know what is happening on our doorsteps, what’s happening to your neighbors, what’s happening to your fellow Americans.  And there is a way to prevent this, and it’s not by continuingly lying to you and telling you that there isn’t a problem.  There is a problem.  It’s a national emergency.  And thank you —

THE PRESIDENT:  Thank you very much.

MS. MENDOZA:  — for following through on your promises. (Applause.)

Perhaps the one I wasn't expecting:

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In my county alone, one city, we have on average, on second shift at our hospital in Bedford, Massachusetts, 15 to 20 overdoses on second shift every day.  And this is going on — that’s one example.  This is happening all over the country.

So he brought in a sheriff from the Boston area? I was pretty curious about it. Apparently this joker offered to have the inmates in his jail help build the Wall. He apparently has a history, I simply have to share a piece of it:

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In 1999, he started a voluntary unpaid chain gang work unit and received a fax from China condemning it as a human rights violation.

whitehouse transcript

TheDrake

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Re: Veto Theatrics
« Reply #11 on: March 15, 2019, 07:22:29 PM »
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Plus, we have — also, we’re getting dogs.  More dogs, believe it or not.  I still say — is that still true?  There’s nothing that replaces a good dog.  Is that right?

PARTICIPANT:  Absolutely.

THE PRESIDENT:  Buying this equipment for very expensive.  But we haven’t been able — it’s true.  We haven’t been able to match the dog.

I’ve seen out at Secret Service, where they showed me the dogs, certain types of German Shepherd — very specific types of dog.  But what they do is they’ll run by 15 boxes, all empty except one.  And they’ll be very, very strongly sealed boxes.  And they’ll coming running full speed and stop like on a dime.  They know the drugs are in that box.  It’s the most incredible thing.

So, we’re spending hundreds of millions of dollars on equipment, but I will say this: It’s not as good as the dogs.  (Laughter.)  But, as you know, we’re getting you — so you’re going to have the best equipment, but we’re getting a lot of dogs for the various entry points also.

Crunch

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Re: Veto Theatrics
« Reply #12 on: March 16, 2019, 10:13:28 AM »
Note that stating his objections in writing and returning the bill to congress does not in practice involve signing anything, so staging an event where Trump torturously writes down his objections to a legal document would not likely be the television masterpiece to rally his troops and garner ratings...

You do remember when Trump opened a novelty sized envelope from North Korea, yes?

Or the letter he wrote to Pelosi about the SOTU?

It may not be a TV event. It might be a twitter and a publication of his vitriol filled message accompanying his veto. Or he could hold a rally and have an 8 ft high National Emergency message to Congress and sign it with a Magnum Sharpie. Or he might invent some new kind of racial slur.

Orange man bad!

TheDrake

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Re: Veto Theatrics
« Reply #13 on: March 16, 2019, 05:48:21 PM »
Sometimes when you see a clown you have to laugh. Other times a clown is terrifying.

TheDeamon

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Re: Veto Theatrics
« Reply #14 on: March 16, 2019, 10:02:16 PM »
Sometimes when you see a clown you have to laugh. Other times a clown is terrifying.

Too bad the Democrats seem to be loading up a clown car of their own.