The Ornery American Forums

General Category => General Comments => Topic started by: Lloyd Perna on June 03, 2021, 10:44:41 AM

Title: Ornery Political Spectrum
Post by: Lloyd Perna on June 03, 2021, 10:44:41 AM
I thought this might be an interesting way to challenge some of the assumptions we make about each other's political views.  Answer each question with either:

Strongly Agree: 4 points
Somewhat Agree: 3 points
Undecided: 2 Points
Somewhat Disagree: 1 points
Strongly Disagree: 0 points

Add up your score at the end and let's see where we stand.

In 1964, James Burnham, co-founder of the National Review and future 1983 Presidential Medal of Freedom recipient, outlined 39 sentences liberals would agree with. Do you think they still hold true? Has conservatism or liberalism changed under this assessment?
Political Theory
source material:
https://www.amazon.com/Suicide-West-Meaning-Destiny-Liberalism/dp/1594037833
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Burnham

The 39 statements:

Title: Re: Ornery Political Spectrum
Post by: Lloyd Perna on June 03, 2021, 10:45:18 AM
I'll go first
4 - Strongly Agree
4 - Strongly Agree
4 - Strongly Agree
4 - Strongly Agree
4 - Strongly Agree
4 - Strongly Agree
4 - Strongly Agree
0 - Strongly Disagree
1 - Somewhat Disagree - I think there needs to be a legitimate government purpose.
4 - Strongly Agree
1 - Somewhat Disagree - It might have been in 1964, but I think we'd be better off without it.
4 - Strongly Agree
3 - Somewhat Agree
4 - Strongly Agree
4 - Strongly Agree - This one is also very dated.
3 - Somewhat Agree - Ignorance and Poverty certainly, Discrimination and Exploitation I'm not convinced.  Maybe in that Era this was true.
4 - Strongly Agree
4 - Strongly Agree - The specifics are dated, but the sentiment still applies.
3 - Somewhat Agree - I think what we consider Corporal punishment today is far less severe than what that commonly meant in 1964
4 - Strongly Agree
4 - Strongly Agree
4 - Strongly Agree
4 - Strongly Agree
4 - Strongly Agree
4 - Strongly Agree
4 - Strongly Agree
4 - Strongly Agree
4 - Strongly Agree
4 - Strongly Agree
4 - Strongly Agree
3 - Somewhat Agree - I agree with the sentiment, I question our ability to implement such a solution.
4 - Strongly Agree
4 - Strongly Agree
4 - Strongly Agree
4 - Strongly Agree
4 - Strongly Agree
4 - Strongly Agree
4 - Strongly Agree
4 - Strongly Agree

My Total - 142
Title: Re: Ornery Political Spectrum
Post by: Fenring on June 03, 2021, 12:15:45 PM
How can you know whether the assessment was full of crap back when it was written? You'd need to know it was accurate, as a control group, in order to determine in what way(s) the definition of "liberal" has changed.
Title: Re: Ornery Political Spectrum
Post by: Lloyd Perna on June 03, 2021, 12:37:30 PM
It's not my intention to determine in what ways the definition of 'liberal' has changed.  I'm interested in discovering where other people on this forum agree or disagree with these statements.

That said, I grew up in very liberal Massachusetts during the 60's and 70's.  Virtually all my relatives are life long Liberals, with the notable exception of my Father who was a registered Communist.  I can say quite surely that they would agree that these tenets were a good representation of prevailing Liberal beliefs in that era.
Title: Re: Ornery Political Spectrum
Post by: Fenring on June 03, 2021, 12:44:19 PM
It's not my intention to determine in what ways the definition of 'liberal' has changed.

Ok. I was responding to this:

Quote
Do you think they still hold true? Has conservatism or liberalism changed under this assessment?

I think you will find that the definition of "liberal" is central to checking out what 'liberals' believe, because as belief-systems fluctuate over time (especially in the short-term) you will find the term doesn't have a fixed meaning such that you can compare up liberals against conservatives with fixed goalposts. In fact, you can go ahead and try to determine if someone is a "liberal" at all and the first question you'd have to ask is "you mean now? 10 years ago? in the 60's?" And so forth.
Title: Re: Ornery Political Spectrum
Post by: Lloyd Perna on June 03, 2021, 12:47:11 PM
Ahh, I see the confusion.  I was quoting that from the reddit article where I found the questions