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Messages - D.W.

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You'd create a huge disincentive for average people to one day decide to embark into public service. It's a good way to ensure a ruling class.
Said it before, but I'll do so again:  This is crap.  "Average people" don't have anything to hide in their tax return other than protecting their identity from criminals.

You'd create a huge disincentive for people who made their living exploiting people and loopholes their whole life from deciding they want not JUST more money but more power over others as well.

Oh. ok. You're moving the goal posts here. You said it was about having more power than the average citizen but now you think it should be about being elected. Ok.

Just because you tilt your head to the side and squint, doesn't mean the goalpost actually moved Crunch.

More power than the average citizen to elected. That's a huge difference.
Someone elected, does have more power, yes?
If anything this "move", would take say... my employer off the list, or the traffic cop.  They got more power in many respects. 

The kinda person I want in charge?

Probably not realistic, but maybe we'd get people who pretended well enough that the end result would be indistinguishable from the desire.  :P

Oh. ok. You're moving the goal posts here. You said it was about having more power than the average citizen but now you think it should be about being elected. Ok.

Just because you tilt your head to the side and squint, doesn't mean the goalpost actually moved Crunch.

General Comments / Re: Personal awareness of data gathering
« on: July 10, 2019, 10:46:52 AM »
I still game with some friends and made a D&D character about 2 years ago that was good at climbing rock walls. 

I still to this day get banner adds for climbing hooks and other gear thanks to some google searching back then.  :)

IRL... ain't never gonna find me climbing down or up a cliff recreationally!  haha

Even the night time cleaning crews?
Normally, I'd just say, YES, them too.
I don't know how expensive it would be to make them all publicly available.  Maybe someone has to show up and request the records, pay for the copies and a fee for any man-hours required to go retrieve them.  Or, barring feet dragging, maybe let them send some intern there to show up and get them themselves (probably security issues with that...)

Logistics necessitate changing "everyone" to, just people someone has an interest in.  In principle though...  Everyone.  (Elected only, may be a good bar to improve logistics.  /shrug)

Public service is... well, public.  Privacy goes bye-bye.  See who still wants the job, and I think we'll all be better for it.

General Comments / Re: What are Democrats running on in 2020?
« on: July 10, 2019, 10:35:35 AM »
Cost to produce or time past since a drug was cutting edge seems to have little to do with cost to the end consumer. 

I get it, we need to keep them innovating and that takes money, but some of the pricing we put up with here, whether out of pocket, or just out of mind because insurance handles it, is absurd.

General Comments / Re: Deplatforming
« on: July 10, 2019, 10:32:07 AM »
Cash is speech.  Put enough of your voice in an envelope and I'm sure someone will listen.   ;D

Sure, yes, anyone paid by Uncle Sam.
That sounds good to me.
Public record less redactions for any obvious methods of identity theft.

All this fretting about creating a "political class" is bullpoop.  It may be far FAR from perfect, but it is A tool in both holding our public officials accountable and knowing who it is we're asking to represent us.  (or who it is those people hire to work for us)

General Comments / Re: Deplatforming
« on: July 10, 2019, 09:04:17 AM »
Maybe it's more like owning the convention hall, having an event "open to the public", then having security escort some "disruptive people" off the premises. 

General Comments / Re: Personal awareness of data gathering
« on: July 09, 2019, 09:21:20 PM »
All the things.  You've given up all the things... 
Privacy is something you must claw back inch at a time.  The default mode is none.

Just to be clear... we want to make sure that politicians who are use to hiding their crookedness, have to compete with crooks less use to needing to hide?  And that's... a good thing?

General Comments / Re: Jeffrey Epstein arrest
« on: July 09, 2019, 09:26:18 AM »
He's a standup guy who shows nothing but respect to women.  Nobody will buy it Crunch.  Don't worry.  Those evil scheeming Dem's won't win!

General Comments / Re: Freedom Gas!
« on: July 08, 2019, 06:42:31 PM »
Careful now.  Starting to exhibit symptoms of the other strain related to TDS...

General Comments / Re: Freedom Gas!
« on: July 08, 2019, 06:00:34 PM »
No one that is angry because they can't do what they want with their back yard just because it borders on protected wetlands
I wish mine was…  Then I wouldn’t have the lawn police telling me I got to mow now… or else!  (happened twice…)  :P
I guess if someone thought sequestration was somehow going to contaminate something it could be immoral?  Sounds like a loony toon to me, but who knows.  I don’t know much about sequestration techniques. 
It seems to be a tenant on the left that the US is primarily an evil force in the world.
There’s some of that baked in there but the key word is “primarily”.  I don’t think that part is fair.  What most I talk to would be firmly in the Spider-Man camp.  With great power comes great responsibility.  And we’re pretty frickin powerful right now.  We are out ahead, we have made a mess of things in some cases, we know better now.  So…  Easy/dirty path or trickier/cleaner path?  Time to see some more of that American exceptionalism again. 
While some pat themselves on the back “the left” wants to keep being… well, progressive. 

General Comments / Re: Jeffrey Epstein arrest
« on: July 08, 2019, 05:47:32 PM »
Ya I know they do.  That's what I was getting at.  It's like a fresh shock every time one's uncovered.  Part of me always goes, "not here!"  But sometimes the truth is uglier than even I want to admit.

General Comments / Re: Jeffrey Epstein arrest
« on: July 08, 2019, 03:02:23 PM »
Saying only an idiot would get into situations like that misses a big part of the equation.  When you have money and power it is (or appears to be, I sure wouldn't know) easy to believe you are above the law and can get whatever you want.  A life of getting "whatever you want" can lead to a rather toxic mix of boredom and taboo thrill seeking.  That said I'm kinda naively shocked that there are local (domestic US) networks.  I could see people arranging to go out of country and having connections to do just that... but when it pops up here somehow I'm always surprised. 

Guess I'm not quiet jaded enough yet.   :-\

General Comments / Re: Freedom Gas!
« on: July 08, 2019, 02:11:13 PM »
Show me anywhere I've ever said that.
Never said you did.  I was just trying to understand where your line of reasoning lead to.  I get it.  Don’t worship science as a label.  But are you proposing better methodology?  I think you’re sellin this “95%” short.  My point is the modeling IS the science.  (or part of it anyhow)  To say it’s not, or that is faulty science is throwing me for a loop.  What experiments do you want them to do?  What would be conclusive to you?  Is there something that can/should be done to result in “settled science”? 

Opposes carbon sequestration? Nope…
Any emissions?  I know some who hope we can achieve it someday, as sorta an ideal to strive for.

Shutting down coal?  Now there I think I could find some people.  Hell, I’m probably in that group.  But I’d have cooling towers and fuel rods up in their place…  So I’m sure I lose some points off my merit badge there.

Now that’s not to say I’ve not heard all these positions and more.  But it’s nobody I associate with or talk to.  I see them online, and see the talking points.  But I don’t’ know them… 
They want that coal plant shut down (and don't care that a dirtier one will be opened in China).
This is an odd point.  First, they probably DO care, but they sure as poop ain’t gonna fly to China to protest there.  :) 

Paint the US as a bad guy?  Well… we were.  We’re kinda an ex-con at this point.  We show signs of reforming and back slide a little now and then, but it’s looking good on us being reformed.  Yes, there are other “bad guys” out there right now.  Up to the same naughty stuff we once did and at some pretty grand scales in some cases. 

On the off chance the “kooks” are right, and we may reach some cascade of “bad”, I’m willing to say we can afford to tamper with the scales in the name of caution.  After all, doing so is an almost guaranteed winner of an investment down the road.  I suppose we can milk a few more decades out of easier economic winds and let someone else reap the rewards of that investing.  After all, we’re the least likely to suffer for it.  We’ve already got (most of) what we want.  It’s the others struggling to catch up that are the REAL problem.

General Comments / Re: Freedom Gas!
« on: July 08, 2019, 01:13:22 PM »
Is this true?
It's a matter of degree.  I don't know anyone who fits that exactly... 
But let's just say that if there was a magical button that would turn the clock back on modern life, there are a couple people I'd make sure never got near it.  Just in case.  :P

Mostly the people I know slant heavily towards the nerd spectrum.  We needsis our precious electricity!

Then again, oddly those who seem most vocal are also heavily invested into social media... where would one do their posturing with all that communication and shallow reinforcement stripped away?   ;D

Much better if our rights are spelled out and we know what is and is not legally protected, and keep the guess work out of who's morality is correct.  :) 

This one's all tied up in personhood issues, but in general I think most people suck at dictating morality to others, let alone trying to legislate it.

General Comments / Re: Jeffrey Epstein arrest
« on: July 08, 2019, 12:55:34 PM »
That's a quote in New Yorker from a 2002 article. With 20/20 hindsight, maybe not a great line to throw out there but by itself proves nothing.
  20/20?  I think the legally blind could teach the man when he should just stay quiet. 

Nothing he says proves anything.  (that's the problem)

dropping fields that don't pan out is fine.  Theocratic dictate suppressing science in the name of morality...  That's not so cool. 

Then again, that's how you get mad scientists!   ;D

General Comments / Re: Freedom Gas!
« on: July 08, 2019, 12:44:00 PM »
Environment-ologists not Ennviornment-icists

You cannot measure ice caps melting or atmospheric trapping of heat or solar ray penetration levels or ocean currents and temperature gradients sufficiently in a lab so lets not bother studying it at all? 

I get that data can be abused to fit politics, but what point are you trying to get at?  I'm all for getting bad science out of politics.  I think that part of it is rather uncontroversial.  But just calling it "not science" seems to go beyond that into the realm of, "Lets ignore it all and do what we want."

And we ARE bad wardens... but I like modern life.  I'd make a sad renaissance peasant and drafting by oil lamp with T-squares and boards to design much less ambitious projects would take some serious adjustments...  I suppose my doctor would like that I was getting more exercise, as long as I didn't need any of those silly industrially produced prescriptions or energy wasting diagnostics.  :P

Politics gets a lot easier when you ignore the kooks on the fringe.  But damn do they get loud at times.

General Comments / Re: Freedom Gas!
« on: July 08, 2019, 09:55:12 AM »
First, one would expect things to be adjusted (with new data).
Second, the "experiment and testing" with computer models comes when they correctly or incorrectly predict actual events down the road.  Some models are obviously wrong, as Crunch points out.  To me at least, that doesn't throw the whole field out as "not science"...

That said, all of your points is why I tend to focus on expanding our capabilities to manipulate our environment as we see fit instead of just accepting that we will do SOME harm if we want to maintain the comforts and way of life we've become accustom to.  (and that others are still trying to attain.)  I don't like sucking down exhaust fumes in a traffic jam.  I like clear blue skies (when they happen around here...)  I like clean water.  Those green growy things are OK too when I go outside.  ;) 

I prefer putting effort into improving those things I like without telling me I need to tear down my city and rebuild into archologies and ration power and take shorter showers...  I don't much care that the weatherman gets it wrong.  Be it a 7 day forecast or a 20 year prediction.  :P

General Comments / Re: Freedom Gas!
« on: July 07, 2019, 10:15:30 AM »
Well, maybe not the furthest from science you can get... 

General Comments / Re: Deplatforming
« on: July 05, 2019, 03:44:42 PM »
Nice break down Seriati.

As a second point, I find it absolutely unacceptable to provide immunity from suits based on content to such platforms based on the theory that the platforms are public and the substance the speech of the users rather than the platform, if they turn around and demonstrate ability and willingness to censor speech based on content.  That theory is absolutely inconsistent with the exercise of political censorship based on view point. 
To me this is a technological issue.  Their business model simply does not work if they are required to meet the standard.  That's why they want immunity. 

Now we can decide that this business model / the whole social media "thing" just isn't possible without granting immunity and shut it all down... (until the bots/AI are up to it) Or we can grant them some sort of immunity.  I think we all know for a fact that our lawmakers, as an aggregate, are NOT up for that technical of a debate / law crafting.  I think enough know that so they drag their feet, and enough tech companies know it that they are lobbying for all they are worth to avoid it.

General Comments / Re: Freedom Gas!
« on: July 05, 2019, 03:36:46 PM »
I think what we're saying is, Crunch's assertions may miss the larger point, but he's not wrong, there ARE doomsayers out there making a mess of things, and have been for awhile.  Your own link demonstrates that.   ::)

Claiming that's not the case simply compounds the problems those sensationalists are making towards achieving real advancements.  It ain't easy to motivate skeptics or the selfish, particularly if you squander credibility.

General Comments / Re: Deplatforming
« on: July 04, 2019, 08:46:53 PM »
That point is the only one that keeps me from getting worked up about it.  I don't LIKE (get it?  thumbs up? hah?) that this version of standing up against toxic behavior is becoming more prevalent, but we got no "right" to these platforms. 

Asking or demanding the government grant us that right, and giving them the means to "protect" it for us...  That sounds like some serious nightmare fuel to me.

General Comments / Re: Freedom Gas!
« on: July 04, 2019, 12:34:28 PM »
A 1989 Associated Press article predicted disaster if "global warming" went unchecked.

From your link.  You could agree or expand on the link saying he's (also) trying to mischaracterize it, but even the link says it's factually accurate.

General Comments / Re: Freedom Gas!
« on: July 04, 2019, 12:30:19 PM »
That sounded like a quote, rather than a report.  FWIW

General Comments / Re: Freedom Gas!
« on: July 04, 2019, 09:30:39 AM »
All causes/parties have their nutjobs.  That is a good find though.  "senior U.N. environmental official"  I mean, it was probably their "job" to get people worked up to change policy / hand over money, but still. 

Alarmist almost never help their cause, even if the sky IS falling.  (which it almost never is..)  ;)

General Comments / Re: Drag Kids
« on: July 03, 2019, 12:46:31 PM »
I can't figure out if it's a genuine attempt to be open to all possible life choices, even those they disagree with, or some are just thrilled to support anything that makes the more conservative types uncomfortable or makes them rage...

Surprises indeed.

The police did not get involved as Portland’s mayor has directed them to allow Antifa to run amok.
Was this confirmed?  The story I found on this (had to google it as I got no idea who this is, or what you were talking about), had one person quoted who was speculating that was probably the case.

As a rule I'm skeptical about Antifa hysteria.  (aka "leftist savages" in the piece I read)  But sounds pretty bad for the mayor and chief of police if it they were issuing orders to do nothing as it got out of control. 

If they are pants-on-head-crazy enough to order the police not to do their job to avoid... what?  A violent response?  Then they're all on their way out and gonna be spending a long time in courtrooms.  Self-solving problem. 

General Comments / Re: Freedom Gas!
« on: July 01, 2019, 03:57:35 PM »
I've said before.  I'm a terrible environmentalist.  I'm... IDK a techno purist?  Anything to keep the innovation ball rolling in the right direction.

General Comments / Re: Freedom Gas!
« on: July 01, 2019, 03:09:07 PM »
And all that leads to...

Develop "green tech" as fast as possible, and sacrifice here, in the US to get it done.  Then see to it we are providing it, when they don't themselves, so they DON'T take our path.   

Ideally selling it and recouping our expenses and maybe profiting.  Also improving our own circumstances at home. 

That depends on if we are complaining because they are "bad" or because they aren't doing what we want.  Assuming of course we don't want them doing exactly what they are doing right now...  :P

While I find the idea that Iran controls it's own ability to integrate into the modern world more than a little suspect, the rest is fair. 

There's a lot of daylight shining down on Trump's foreign policy.  No skulking about hinted at.  (Unless we blew up those boats...)  :P 

I can't honestly say open threats and taunts is worse...  I'll give him that.

General Comments / Re: Freedom Gas!
« on: July 01, 2019, 02:01:55 PM »
Since when has science said, "Well, we don't really think the way you went about your research is ethical enough for our standards.  We're going to ignore and shun the fruits of your labor and urge everyone else to do so as well."  ?   ::)

Nothing to see here!  Move along people.  Move along.

Wait... should I be worried about Canada?

General Comments / Re: AOC's latest
« on: June 26, 2019, 03:18:49 PM »
the "poor bail risk" is probably the snag.  Depending on who you ask, that could be every one of them.

Just really quick from Wikipedia land...  Again, I'm no pro in this area but...

RE:  US/Iran relations
During World War II, Iran was invaded by the United Kingdom and the Soviet Union, both US allies, but relations continued to be positive after the war until the later years of the government of Mohammad Mosaddegh, who was overthrown by a coup organized by the Central Intelligence Agency and aided by the MI6. This was followed by an era of very close alliance and friendship between Shah Mohammad Reza Pahlavi's regime and the US government, which was in turn followed by a dramatic reversal and disagreement between the two countries after the 1979 Iranian Revolution.[4] During this era, Iran was one of the United States' closest allies

We pushed a regime change.  Got pushed back.  I suppose one could argue that the current state of affairs is more of a reset back before we interfered?  (I honestly don't know)  But we certainly played a part in where that "rogue state" directs its animosity.

General Comments / Re: Freedom Gas!
« on: June 25, 2019, 11:08:48 PM »
You can say yes to nuclear power, environmentalists trying to sound reasonable often do. However, you know that the movement won’t accept it.
Which movement?  Big Oil?  Big Coal?  Maybe the Nuke lobiest are waiting for public sentiment to shift and those other energy juggernauts will all just slap those chums on the back and withdraw from the field with a, "well played ol' boy!", seems plausible...

But no, it's "the movement" that won't accept it.  Yep!  All those ridiculous science denying tree hugging, cloth grocery bag using obstructionists!   ;D

General Comments / Re: Freedom Gas!
« on: June 25, 2019, 11:04:39 PM »
Well to be fair, I'm a *censored*ty environmentalist.  He can generalize if I can I suppose.

For the record, I've always scoffed at the apocalypse scenarios.  I mean up in Michigan I'm more concerned about polar vortexes than rising sea levels or running the AC a tiny bit more for a couple months.  ;)

But I'm an odd-ball.  I think we'll need to have mastered this tech for extra-earth projects before we need them to fend off the apocalypse.

From a geo-political stand point however we'll need it faster than that.  The longer we drag our feet on "green tech" the greener the grass looks in the more developed nations; and the more those outside if it are going to abandon their homes for a shot at what we got.  Make no mistake, everyone wants what we got, in comforts if not always the culture.  If they all try to go about it the way we did it ain't gonna be pretty.  (or cheap)  Oh, and we probably wouldn't let them, so add bloody to that list too.

So wait... maybe a 30 year line in the sand for some real nastiness IS on the table?  Just not how the tree-huggers think.  :P 

I'll let Fenring handle this one, but I assume he meant "not too long ago" as PRE revolution.

Broader question, as I don't dig into regional politics / animosity in that region much beyond the headlines or crisis of the day.  How plausible is it we continue to antagonize Iran, for no other reason than to keep them hostile to us and our "allies", because we ourselves don't trust those allies and want a check in place to balance our "aid" to them?

It seems a silly way to promote our interests, but a saying they trotted out in Game of Thrones seems applicable.  "Chaos is a ladder."

Maybe we aren't trying to make something work at all?  Reckless, yes; but implausible? 

General Comments / Re: Freedom Gas!
« on: June 25, 2019, 12:37:56 PM »
I'm not anti-nuke...  I think that's easily the most sensible approach to addressing the problem in the next few decades.  So push that.  A lot more convincing argument than, "clean coal". 

Then again, it works domestically, as we're already a nuclear power.  Do we just tell others who aren't that they're out of luck?  No nukes AND pressure them away from high carbon solutions?  Sure sounds like we would need to be trailblazing sustainable technologies if we wanted to make that case, no?

And seriously, what's left to prove?  We're quibbling over data points, not the big picture.

Polluter profits vs rate of doing what we know we should.  Not being honest about a realistic transition?  That's kinda a stunning statement. 

I'd be inclined to agree with this position Seriati if not for his own taunts and saber rattling.  Instead it does come across as mixed messaging.  Does he just follow the advice of the last person he talked to?  Is he the only thing between us and blood thirsty warmongers?  Who knows?

I'd like to give him credit on this one.  I think he does genuinely want to avoid further military engagements in that neck of the woods, but his need to belittle others, while MAYBE stopping short of actually killing people and putting our troops at risk, doesn't inspire confidence.

That and we keep doing everything possible to cut off diplomacy and back them into a corner.  Maybe this is the best he can do to hold back the tide?  If so, that also doesn't inspire confidence in the office.  Or at least his execution of it.

General Comments / Re: AOC's latest
« on: June 24, 2019, 10:25:53 AM »
That wouldn't shock me.  Everyone's willing to use these people.  It's why this issue refuses to be resolved.  Would be nice if we didn't have to kill or abuse people to hype up our respective voting blocks.   :'(

General Comments / Re: AOC's latest
« on: June 24, 2019, 10:04:11 AM »
You mean now that the left is pretending they care.
In case you were unaware, there is more than a small divide between the voters who belong to “the left” and the policy makers who belong to “the left”.  I’m not one to defend bad policy just because “my guy” or gall is at the wheel. 
Maybe you weren’t aware of it but a great many were.
Yet here we are…  That’s kinda my point.  Are there some hypocrites on the left who did know, and suddenly decided jadedly to employ it as a cudgel to score points?  Sure, but for the most part, this flew under the radar.

I guess what bothers me is not the pointing out that it was policy under Obama.  It’s that it is being used as an excuse to continue it.  On top of that, it’s being used and highlighted (by both sides) as either a soap box issue (the left) or to terrorize potential immigrants (the right).  I don’t deny that detention may be necessary in some cases or that these people are breaking the law.  I’m probably much more a hardass for legal immigration than most on the left, but the current policy seems to be scare tactics first, nationalist propaganda second, then law enforcement.  And that is partly or largely by design, not a perception to be laid at the feat of the 'fake news media enemy of the people'…
Freedom of religion is a right.
Was just tossing in a quick side topic / current affair.  Cross memorial, tax payer funded upkeep on public land.  SC case.  Had nothing to do with this topic really.  Has nothing to do with freedom of religion either, but whatever.  ;)

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