Author Topic: What will Trump do in his last 28 days? (Read 4308 times)

msquared · « **on:** December 23, 2020, 07:49:24 AM »

Start a war?
Declare martial law and send in the troops?
Veto military spending and Covid relief?
Barricade himself in the Oval Office and refuse to leave?
Pardon every Federal prisoner?

yossarian22c · « **Reply #1 on:** December 23, 2020, 09:03:27 AM »

Quote from: msquared on December 23, 2020, 07:49:24 AM

Start a war?
Declare martial law and send in the troops?
Veto military spending and Covid relief?
Barricade himself in the Oval Office and refuse to leave?
Pardon every Federal prisoner?

I don't see him starting intentionally starting a war, letting things get out of hand with a strike on Iranian nuclear facilities is probably on the table.

I think he would declare martial law if he thought he could get away with it. But he won't issue an order he know won't be obeyed.

I think his veto threats are probably hollow. But I don't think he would mind leaving Biden with a mess so its possible.

No barricade.

Pardon's for everyone named Trump? Yes. All prisoners? No.

I think Trump will tweet, play golf, hold some rallies in Georgia and have some WH parties to spread the virus. He will continue to claim the election was stolen, hoping his rabid supporters will cause enough chaos for the martial law thing to work. But he'll happily settle with them giving him all their money "to contest the election" which he will then use to rent office space for his PAC from his properties and hire his children to run it.

msquared · « **Reply #2 on:** December 23, 2020, 09:10:37 AM »

Why how cynical of you.

Fenring · « **Reply #3 on:** December 23, 2020, 10:30:07 AM »

Where did this meme pop up that Trump wants to declare martial law? Is it based on anything concrete?

msquared · « **Reply #4 on:** December 23, 2020, 10:31:17 AM »

Michael Flynn is in direct talks with Trump about it. Why would he be talking to someone who is in favor unless he is trying to work a way out that he can do it?

yossarian22c · « **Reply #5 on:** December 23, 2020, 10:33:12 AM »

Quote from: Fenring on December 23, 2020, 10:30:07 AM

Where did this meme pop up that Trump wants to declare martial law? Is it based on anything concrete?

He nominated Scott O'Grady for a top job at the DOD who has publicly supported Flynn's martial law plan.

Fenring · « **Reply #6 on:** December 23, 2020, 10:36:32 AM »

Quote from: msquared on December 23, 2020, 10:31:17 AM

Michael Flynn is in direct talks with Trump about it. Why would he be talking to someone who is in favor unless he is trying to work a way out that he can do it?

Wait, so they actually made it known they were going to be talking about a martial law plan? Or he's just talking with someone who has said that in the past?

I'm asking because of all of Trump's foibles, using military or police force hasn't been one of his tendencies.

msquared · « **Reply #7 on:** December 23, 2020, 10:41:59 AM »

Oh come on. Trump has been talking with people who are promoting the idea about how he can make it work. It probably will not work, but if he can figure a way out, I am sure he will. He is turning on any Republican who will not support his claims of fraud.

He is going to break away from the Republicans and start a Trump party.

yossarian22c · « **Reply #8 on:** December 23, 2020, 10:45:54 AM »

Flynn started publicly supporting the martial law plan the day he got his pardon. Scott O'Grady was nominated for a high level position at DOD after supporting Flynn's martial law plan. Are you going to let the fact that Trump hasn't publicly said he's trying to create a martial law plan convince you he isn't considering it given those two facts?

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/22/martial-law-conspiracy-theories-rattle-white-house-as-trump-seeks-to-undo-biden-win.html

Quote

Byrne has said he was at a long, sometimes contentious meeting with Trump, Powell, Flynn and Trump advisors on Friday, when they discussed the election-challenge strategy.
...
The Times reported Saturday that Trump at the meeting had asked about Flynn’s suggestion of imposing martial law.

Why else would Trump be meeting with Flynn?

NobleHunter · « **Reply #9 on:** December 23, 2020, 10:51:57 AM »

At least part of the reason he hasn't used much force domestically is people keep talking him out of it. He has signed off on expanded use of military force overseas. See assassinating that Iranian general and loosening rules to avoid civilian casualties. I think even now, there are enough sane people in and near the White House to talk him out of doing something as stupid as declaring martial law.

I devoutly hope he forms a third party. It would destroy the GOP's chances at winning elections if the Democrats are even remotely competitive. For reference, in a two party first-past-the-post system, getting 40% of the vote is a solid loss. In a three party first-past-the-post system getting 40% of the vote is probably just as solid a win. Canadian governments usually get majority governments if they can secure over 35% though we have two-and-a-few-more parties (I think most ridings have two properly competitive parties and one or two spoilers).

Fenring · « **Reply #10 on:** December 23, 2020, 11:31:35 AM »

I guess whatever warning sign you think this is would be unprecedented anyway so it's not like we can look at history to predict a 'first time' of a crazy action. That said, any attempt to show Trump as having expanding use of military force oversees (NH) is beyond ridiculous, he has been a dove on foreign military action compared to the past two administrations. The last two were tearing down nations realpolitik style, let's not compare that to this.

As far as martial law goes...it just seems like a silly worry to me. I'm usually the one would entertains far-fetched notions of what powerful people do, but I can't imagine why Trump would want to go from sleazy business to man with military target painted on his head, wielding a gun to the head like Cobra Commander. That was never his thing. If it becomes his thing I guess I'll admit I was wrong.

Seriati · « **Reply #11 on:** December 23, 2020, 01:17:23 PM »

The obvious answer is claim that he won the election.

msquared · « **Reply #12 on:** December 23, 2020, 01:18:56 PM »

So all he has to do is claim? Even though the states have certified Biden as the winner? The EC has elected Biden as the winner? Wow, it is so easy to not follow the Constitution.

Seriati · « **Reply #13 on:** December 23, 2020, 02:24:04 PM »

Did I say it would work. The question is what he'll do, not what will happen.

msquared · « **Reply #14 on:** December 23, 2020, 02:30:27 PM »

So you are OK with him throwing American democracy down the tubes for ego reasons? Because he can not admit he got beat.

NobleHunter · « **Reply #15 on:** December 23, 2020, 02:33:13 PM »

Quote from: Fenring on December 23, 2020, 11:31:35 AM

That said, any attempt to show Trump as having expanding use of military force oversees (NH) is beyond ridiculous, he has been a dove on foreign military action compared to the past two administrations.

The point is Trump is fine with using military force overseas. Nor am I inclined to give him much credit for being better than Bush and Obama. You might as well compare him to FDR and Truman (going to WW2 because I can't remember the first 2 Vietnam presidents). Is the standard that he's a dove because he didn't start shooting any new groups of people?

TheDeamon · « **Reply #16 on:** December 23, 2020, 02:49:31 PM »

Quote from: msquared on December 23, 2020, 01:18:56 PM

So all he has to do is claim? Even though the states have certified Biden as the winner? The EC has elected Biden as the winner? Wow, it is so easy to not follow the Constitution.

If you're following the constitution, then you know Congress has to validate the results yet. Until Congress is done with their process, it's not over.

msquared · « **Reply #17 on:** December 23, 2020, 02:54:56 PM »

I could have sworn all they have to do is read the results of the ballots. They actually have no power to change anything. Goal posts keep getting moved.

When Congress reads the ballots on Jan 6 what then? Biden is not President until he is sworn in? Yes, yes I know he is President Elect then and not President, but do you really think Trump will acknowledge his loss even then? I am not putting any money on it.

Fenring · « **Reply #18 on:** December 23, 2020, 03:10:22 PM »

Quote from: NobleHunter on December 23, 2020, 02:33:13 PM

The point is Trump is fine with using military force overseas.

Well I don't even think you can be a U.S. president right now and not be fine with it, as in, are willing to do it. I'm talking about being relatively peaceful versus relatively warlike. They are all warlike compared to, say, Canada.

Quote

Nor am I inclined to give him much credit for being better than Bush and Obama. You might as well compare him to FDR and Truman (going to WW2 because I can't remember the first 2 Vietnam presidents).

If what you mean is that Obama and Bush 43 are bad examples because they were involved in outrageous amounts of military actions, then maybe I agree. I am not really saying that Trump is a dove absolutely speaking, but strictly compared to the last two admins. That is indeed a low bar to surpass, in fairness.

Quote

Is the standard that he's a dove because he didn't start shooting any new groups of people?

It's not really a standard, just that of all epithets to define Trump's presidency the use of foreign force is surely not a plausible part of the list. But hey, yeah, not starting shooting wars with a bunch of people is definitely good

msquared · « **Reply #19 on:** December 23, 2020, 04:08:09 PM »

He just vetoed the Defense bill. I guess Congress is coming back next week to over ride. Another loss for Trump. He is just racking them up now.

Seriati · « **Reply #20 on:** December 23, 2020, 04:53:21 PM »

Quote from: msquared on December 23, 2020, 02:30:27 PM

So you are OK with him throwing American democracy down the tubes for ego reasons? Because he can not admit he got beat.

I don't know how you think that's responsive.

I also don't think he's throwing democracy down the tubes even if he never admits he lost. Far as I know Hillary still claims his win was illegitimate, Stacy Abrams still hasn't conceded, and the entire DNC refers to Trump as an "illegitimate" President off and on.

The left told us before the election that if they lost they'd riot and burn down the country, yet somehow that wasn't putting democracy at risk? Information was openly manipulated and buried by the press and social media, directly interfering with having an informed electorate, not putting it at risk? Election rules were widely attacked and suspended in a manner that facilitated fraud, not at risk?

If Trump hasn't got an injunction or something similar and refuses to leave office on the 20th, happy to have a discussion about it then.

rightleft22 · « **Reply #21 on:** December 23, 2020, 05:31:50 PM »

A man of reason has devoured his own tail and become a strawman like his master

The left has told us as if the left has ever spoken with one voice. Or is it Hillary that speaks for all... but sure her comments or equivalent to that of a president (maybe in your eyes she won)
The entire DNC... your powers of knowing what everyone thinks is amazing.

In the past when you argued about policies I used to think that often you have a point. Now I cannot see you as anything but a apologist and worse a appeaser blind to the impact of your fact-less conspiracy "reasoning".