Author Topic: Pencemegeddon  (Read 36709 times)

msquared

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Re: Pencemegeddon
« Reply #100 on: January 06, 2021, 07:49:27 PM »
Come on Wm, tell us the truth. George Soros false flag.

DonaldD

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Re: Pencemegeddon
« Reply #101 on: January 06, 2021, 07:55:24 PM »
What's noteworthy is the fact that some of the activists breaking windows have been identified as AntiFa activists wearing MAGA hats. It has also been reported that it was Pence who called in the National Guard. Trump's message to the country was made at the same time that Biden's speech was broadcast.

What you completely missed, William, is that all the video clips the MSM are airing today were taken from the Democratic Antifa riots following Trump's 2016 victory, when BLM tried to burn down the Capitol.  I'm surprised you of all people did not catch on.

TheDeamon

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Re: Pencemegeddon
« Reply #102 on: January 06, 2021, 07:56:13 PM »
I've now seen at least one side by side photo of one of the clowns who ran amok in the House.

Claims are the guy was running around in support of a BLM rally in Arizona this past summer, same tattoos on open display even, and it certainly looks like the same guy. But not knowing the provenance of the June photo, I'll wait for somewhere a little more reputable to report on it.

DonaldD

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Re: Pencemegeddon
« Reply #103 on: January 06, 2021, 08:00:06 PM »
The cracks are starting to show in the Sedition Caucus:

Quote
Congresswoman Cathy McMorris Rodgers
about an hour ago

What happened today and continues to unfold in the nation’s capital is disgraceful and un-American. Thugs assaulted Capitol Police Officers, breached and defaced our Capitol Building, put people’s lives in danger, and disregarded the values we hold dear as Americans. To anyone involved, shame on you.
We must have a peaceful transfer of power. The only reason for my objection was to give voice to the concern that governors and courts unilaterally changed election procedures without the will of the people and outside of the legislative process. I have been consistent in my belief that Americans should utilize the Constitutional tools and legal processes available to seek answers to their questions about the 2020 election. What we have seen today is unlawful and unacceptable. I have decided I will vote to uphold the Electoral College results and I encourage Donald Trump to condemn and put an end to this madness.

TheDeamon

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Re: Pencemegeddon
« Reply #104 on: January 06, 2021, 08:02:50 PM »
So what happens if at least some of the thugs get traced back to BLM or AntiFa?

Edit: To be clear, I'd be surprised if some of Bundy's associates aren't also involved in a significant way with some of what went down today. But I'm also fully expecting to find some Black Block types having been present in MAGA attire to "stir the pot" as well.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2021, 08:05:28 PM by TheDeamon »

Aris Katsaris

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Re: Pencemegeddon
« Reply #105 on: January 06, 2021, 08:33:35 PM »
TheDeamon, it's really time to stop. To quote Biden from four years ago: It's over.

Deal.

TheDeamon

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Re: Pencemegeddon
« Reply #106 on: January 06, 2021, 08:41:20 PM »
Trump is over, and thank god for that.

Everything else?
It's just getting started, sadly.

Grant

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Re: Pencemegeddon
« Reply #107 on: January 06, 2021, 08:42:29 PM »
Kelly Loeffler defects from Cruz and Company

msquared

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Re: Pencemegeddon
« Reply #108 on: January 06, 2021, 08:50:02 PM »
sounds like the Gang of 12 Senators is not going to object to every state that was in question.

Grant

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Re: Pencemegeddon
« Reply #109 on: January 06, 2021, 08:51:28 PM »
Minute 1 of Booker:  Just finish up, shut up, and sit down. 

Minute 4 of Booker:  OK.  I gotta admit you're good.  Keep going.  You better wrap this up well. 

Minute 5 of Booker:  That's it?  You're all foreplay. 

Minute 1 of Sasse:  I don't want a history lesson.  Sit down. 

Minute 3 of Sasse:  I don't care.  Not pertinent. 

Grant

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Re: Pencemegeddon
« Reply #110 on: January 06, 2021, 08:53:35 PM »
sounds like the Gang of 12 Senators is not going to object to every state that was in question.

They became 13, hence I had to abandon the "12 Apostles of Trump" moniker, for "Cruz and Company", after the greatest 13 entrepreneurs in the history of literature.    But I guess they're back down to 12 because Loeffler defected. 


Jeez shut up Sasse.  And I like you. 

Grant

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Re: Pencemegeddon
« Reply #111 on: January 06, 2021, 09:12:26 PM »
So crushed that Lee and Paul have had the best speeches so far. 

I detest Paul and don't think much of Lee.  Maybe "detest" is too strong. 

Had to mute Duckworth

Grant

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Re: Pencemegeddon
« Reply #112 on: January 06, 2021, 09:14:35 PM »
Jeez.  They're going to let everybody have a turn, arn't they?  Instead of two hours this will take 500 minutes. 

Aris Katsaris

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Re: Pencemegeddon
« Reply #113 on: January 06, 2021, 09:16:37 PM »
Trump is over, and thank god for that.

Everything else?
It's just getting started, sadly.

Yes.

The Confederacy is not yet dead, as seen by how its flag has now reached a place it hadn't reached in the first Civil War.

I expect that the Trumpists will continue with mass murders, terrorism, and assassinations, in their pursuit of overthrowing American democracy -- and Trump will keep praising them.

Let the shame forever fall on those who voted for that piece of *censored*.

TheDeamon

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Re: Pencemegeddon
« Reply #114 on: January 06, 2021, 09:24:00 PM »
So crushed that Lee and Paul have had the best speeches so far. 

I detest Paul and don't think much of Lee.  Maybe "detest" is too strong.

I've generally kind of liked Lee, I've disagreed with some of his positions but could understand where he was coming from. I'm actually impressed with his position on the issue in this case, I actually agree with it to a very large degree. There is nothing for the Senate to do except count the votes and ratify it.

Grant

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Re: Pencemegeddon
« Reply #115 on: January 06, 2021, 09:30:53 PM »
Phukin' A Romney

Grant

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Re: Pencemegeddon
« Reply #116 on: January 06, 2021, 09:33:31 PM »
I've generally kind of liked Lee, I've disagreed with some of his positions but could understand where he was coming from. I'm actually impressed with his position on the issue in this case, I actually agree with it to a very large degree. There is nothing for the Senate to do except count the votes and ratify it.

He and Paul had the best, most succinct, on target arguments when it came to venue/jurisdiction/constitutionality/the law.  Tight, to the point, iron. 

Romney so far has had the best argument on the underlying problems. 

Booker was the best speaker, but was unorganized in argument. 

Grant

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Re: Pencemegeddon
« Reply #117 on: January 06, 2021, 09:41:43 PM »
Lankford and Danes leave The Company of Ted Hickoryhead.  Now down to 10. 

DonaldD

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Re: Pencemegeddon
« Reply #118 on: January 06, 2021, 09:42:42 PM »
Just going to put this out there again...

I think there is a non-zero chance that section 4 of the 25th amendment will be exercised before the end of the year.

kidv

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Re: Pencemegeddon
« Reply #119 on: January 06, 2021, 09:45:51 PM »
Quote from: DonaldD on November 08, 2020, 10:57:22 AM

To be fair, it is actually a zero percent chance that it did happen . . .


2021, hope springs eternal.

Grant

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Re: Pencemegeddon
« Reply #120 on: January 06, 2021, 09:59:28 PM »
Graham closed it out with a bang. 

So mad that Graham was better than Sasse.  But should have known.  Graham is a great speaker/debater. 

Grant

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Re: Pencemegeddon
« Reply #121 on: January 06, 2021, 10:14:17 PM »
Only six stuck with the Company.  Cruz and Hawley got destroyed today.  Humiliated. 

Grant

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Re: Pencemegeddon
« Reply #122 on: January 06, 2021, 11:10:35 PM »
Poor Graham.  I think he was drunk when he decided to break up with Trump on national television. 

Kids, be careful who you get into bed with.  Don't be Lindsay Graham. 

yossarian22c

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Re: Pencemegeddon
« Reply #123 on: January 07, 2021, 08:36:18 AM »
Just going to put this out there again...

I think there is a non-zero chance that section 4 of the 25th amendment will be exercised before the end of the year.

The president incited a riot on the capital and then sat in a bunker and watched it happen. 25th amendment, impeachment, get him gone.

yossarian22c

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Re: Pencemegeddon
« Reply #124 on: January 07, 2021, 08:39:53 AM »
https://www.npr.org/sections/congress-electoral-college-tally-live-updates/2021/01/06/954227854/video-shows-newly-elected-w-va-lawmaker-among-mob-that-stormed-the-u-s-capitol
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A newly elected member of the West Virginia House of Delegates has been seen in a video as part of the group of pro-Trump rioters who forced their way into the U.S. Capitol on Wednesday.

Del. Derrick Evans, a Republican from Wayne County, W.Va., won his first term as a state lawmaker in the November election and was sworn in last month. Video streaming on his Facebook page throughout the day showed him on the Capitol grounds and just outside the building.

The video that shows Evans entering the Capitol was later deleted, though not before multiple social media users made and shared copies of it.

Justice department should be arresting him today, minimum trespassing and disorderly conduct charges.

Wayward Son

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Re: Pencemegeddon
« Reply #125 on: January 07, 2021, 10:42:22 AM »
And the initial results are in:

45% of Republican voters approved of the storming of the Capitol, with 43% opposing it.

Also, 52% of Republican voters think Joe Biden is a great deal or somewhat to blame for it.  ::)

I keep telling you: the Republican party is Trump's party.  The moral, values and reasoning of the old Republican party are gone. :(

yossarian22c

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Re: Pencemegeddon
« Reply #126 on: January 07, 2021, 10:42:57 AM »
https://www.npr.org/sections/congress-electoral-college-tally-live-updates/2021/01/07/954257324/storming-the-capitol-didnt-change-the-election-some-trump-backers-realize

Quote
And unlike Laughlin, Lawrence has not concluded that Trump's only path forward is to leave the White House.

"I hope he calls martial law," she says.

Trump supporters are freaking scary. I hope he declares martial law and we move to an authoritarian regime. Democracy weeps.

rightleft22

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Re: Pencemegeddon
« Reply #127 on: January 07, 2021, 10:50:37 AM »
Ronald Reagan spinning in his grave
I didn't leave the Republican Party, the party imploded and went to hell.

DonaldD

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Re: Pencemegeddon
« Reply #128 on: January 07, 2021, 11:09:21 AM »
And the initial results are in:

45% of Republican voters approved of the storming of the Capitol, with 43% opposing it.

The number of independents in 2022 is going to explode.

Aris Katsaris

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Re: Pencemegeddon
« Reply #129 on: January 07, 2021, 12:26:23 PM »
And the initial results are in:

45% of Republican voters approved of the storming of the Capitol, with 43% opposing it.

The number of independents in 2022 is going to explode.

Such an optimist.

The 43% who opposed the storming don't actually blame Trump for it either. Notice here that the few Trump voters in this forum who've commented on the storming so far, have disapproved of it but as far as I could tell they haven't blamed Trump for this storming. At least one of them blamed... antifa.

Trump always does it so he can keep both groups happy, both the fascists and the people who don't want to see themselves as fascists. With one corner of the mouth he praises, with the other corner he disapproves. They understand the bashing is fake, just for deniability. (he did the same thing in Charlottesville, and he did it again with the "Proud Boys", and he did it again now)

As a result: Not a single person who stormed the Capitol (or who supported the storming) feels betrayed by Trump for asking them to withdraw, or feels he actually disapproved it (he expressed his love, appreciation and understanding, well enough). And *also* miraculously, contradictorily, hardly any Republican who disapproved of the storming, seems to blame Trump for it.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2021, 12:31:58 PM by Aris Katsaris »

rightleft22

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Re: Pencemegeddon
« Reply #130 on: January 07, 2021, 12:38:51 PM »
Interesting he actually said he would be their with them. A statement that seemed to imply physically present, and it was this statement that seemed to wake up the crowd.
Of course it will be argued that Trump didn't mean he wouldn't be with them physically, Trump never means what he says unless he says it, so none of his followers will blame him for not 'being their with them'.

Cognitive dissonance? By refusing to consider character as a virtue Trump followers cannot see the man as he is.   

TheDrake

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Re: Pencemegeddon
« Reply #131 on: January 07, 2021, 12:56:26 PM »
"In so far as he encouraged people to go to Congress, and in so far as the President has consistently cast doubt on the outcome of a free and fair election, I believe that to be completely wrong," Boris Johnson said in a press conference.

When Boris condemns you, well, you just might be done.

yossarian22c

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Re: Pencemegeddon
« Reply #132 on: January 07, 2021, 01:03:56 PM »
"In so far as he encouraged people to go to Congress, and in so far as the President has consistently cast doubt on the outcome of a free and fair election, I believe that to be completely wrong," Boris Johnson said in a press conference.

When Boris condemns you, well, you just might be done.

Meh, doubt many of the people rioting yesterday know who Boris Johnson is. All of the republicans in leadership across the country need to come out against Trump as strongly as Romney did. Or at a minimum as strong as Mitch McConnel did.

Trump isn't done. I hope in 5 years everyone will be claiming to have just been supporting the Republican party and they didn't really like Trump but we're at a scary point.

You have 2/3 of the Republican party who, even if they don't fully process it, are advocating for an authoritarian leader for life. They are out protesting and storming the capital to keep to try to turn American democracy into Russian or Chinese authoritarianism.

DonaldD

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Re: Pencemegeddon
« Reply #133 on: January 07, 2021, 01:27:27 PM »
Such an optimist.

The 43% who opposed the storming don't actually blame Trump for it either. Notice here that the few Trump voters in this forum who've commented on the storming so far, have disapproved of it but as far as I could tell they haven't blamed Trump for this storming. At least one of them blamed... antifa.

The people posting on this forum do tend to be outliers and more strident than the general population.  I think you will find a lot of those same suburban folk who eased away from the GOP because of Trump are going to swing away more forcefully now.  There may be something about being openly associated with an insurrection that will tar many of the political opportunists in GOP in such a way as to affect their future electability.

NobleHunter

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Re: Pencemegeddon
« Reply #134 on: January 07, 2021, 01:33:02 PM »
This is going to offend the heck out of the white moderates who might have stuck with Trump because they were concerned about the Democrats embracing "identity politics." They vote Republican to avoid this kind of unrest and here Trump is egging it on. While they may not vote Democrat, simply staying home--or not voting for the top of the ticket as they appeared to do this time around--would be significant enough

Apparently Trump got cheered by the RNC today. Did they miss the part about a bomb at their building? Or that Trump could have gotten some of them killed yesterday?

TheDeamon

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Re: Pencemegeddon
« Reply #135 on: January 07, 2021, 01:46:13 PM »
The people posting on this forum do tend to be outliers and more strident than the general population.  I think you will find a lot of those same suburban folk who eased away from the GOP because of Trump are going to swing away more forcefully now.  There may be something about being openly associated with an insurrection that will tar many of the political opportunists in GOP in such a way as to affect their future electability.

Calling that an insurrection is stretching reality to a breaking point. You'd have to demonstrate they had a credible belief that their actions would result in an overthrow of the current government. And bear in mind, I'm saying this while suspecting the more destructive participants likely belong to AntiFa.

What you have are acts of civil disobedience/civil disruption, but not insurrection at least for a large majority of the people involved.

The guys planting pipe bombs are another matter.

rightleft22

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Re: Pencemegeddon
« Reply #136 on: January 07, 2021, 01:56:36 PM »
AntiFa the new boggy man?
We have not facts, we have no evidence, I can't be wrong - antifa did it and if not who ever they are, then the devil made me do it.
Whatever, I'm not accountable.

yossarian22c

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Re: Pencemegeddon
« Reply #137 on: January 07, 2021, 01:59:57 PM »
Calling that an insurrection is stretching reality to a breaking point. You'd have to demonstrate they had a credible belief that their actions would result in an overthrow of the current government. And bear in mind, I'm saying this while suspecting the more destructive participants likely belong to AntiFa.

What you have are acts of civil disobedience/civil disruption, but not insurrection at least for a large majority of the people involved.

The guys planting pipe bombs are another matter.

Insurrection is a bit much, but plenty of them were openly calling for one. I'm not sure why you think the entire crowd scaling walls and breaking into the capital was  anti-fa Trump and Confederate flag carrying false flag operatives. The only reason to think that is that you don't want to admit that the Trump crowd turned violent, assaulted police, broke the windows and doors of the capital and acted like a violent mob. They did exactly what Trump told them to do, marched to then fought at the capital.

Do you hold Trump blameless in this? He's been building laying the ground for years with lies about fraudulent elections. He set the conditions for a fire, set a spark, then watched it burn at the capital. His response was hours later to tell the rioters he loved them but they had done enough and should go home. F*** that, he's a monster.

If people keep following him we're going to end up like Russia or China. But instead of strategic authoritarian leaders we'll have an impulsive con man. Trump is a danger. The house should be voting on impeaching him today. The cabinet should invoke the 25th amendment and Trump should be sitting in jail for inciting a riot.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2021, 02:04:29 PM by yossarian22c »

Aris Katsaris

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Re: Pencemegeddon
« Reply #138 on: January 07, 2021, 02:05:25 PM »
And bear in mind, I'm saying this while suspecting the more destructive participants likely belong to AntiFa.

The new conspiracy theory that the Trump fascists are pushing!

You've learned nothing. And same as the other pushers of these disgusting conspiracy theories, Trump foremost among them, you have blood in your hands, and you're an enemy of democracy. As shown by the fact that I've never once seen you condemn any of Trump's lies about the election, or his attempt to acquire the presidency illegitimately.

But, hey, perhaps you're antifa masquerading as a Trumpist too.

And btw, people, THIS here in my post is at a bare minimum the level of intolerance we ought show all the pushers of the Trumpist lies. We should scorn and despise them as fascists, the same way that holocaust deniers are rightfully despised and treated as nazis.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2021, 02:09:23 PM by Aris Katsaris »

Fenring

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Re: Pencemegeddon
« Reply #139 on: January 07, 2021, 02:09:47 PM »
This should only show everyone how dangerous information warfare (which is waged against all Americans every day) is. Because if a lawful election really was undermined by corruption and fraud then this would not only be a legitimate action to take, but in the American spirit would almost be required if you had any honor. So only on the grounds that the fraud charge is bogus does this instead look like sore loser bullying. And this is a distinction not just about worldview but about actual information on the ground. X is either true or it is not true, and the extent to which information is no longer trusted because words on a page are just chicken scratch handed down from "unnamed insider sources" or "senior officials" means that it being true or not true is utterly beyond anyone's ability to discern. This isn't an R vs D issue, it's an issue fundamental to the very fabric of the American media and political system. It pays to spin truth, lie, distort, omit facts, and create narratives often from whole cloth. You can claim a gas attack in Syria was done by Assad, and who other than 0.0000001% of the population is actually there on scene inspecting evidence to know whether he did it or his opponents, blaming him for it? For that matter, how can anyone even know there was a gas attack? Pictures? But we know that MSM networks are caught all the time using fake or old photos to show 'breaking news'. They are just Hollywood television studios where their product is "news style programming". That they will typically still report on actual events is a given; you have to mostly stick to real stuff for the scheme to work. But beyond that there's a reason why many people don't trust even the most basic information, anything ranging from climate change to vaccines to whether an election was fraudulent or not.

You can blame the Trumpers if you like, but they, like Trump himself, are a symptom of a deeply ingrained problem that is perpetuated through denial mostly. 'No, that couldn't happen in my country, the problem is THEM.' That's why scapegoating works, it's believable and easier than having to get up and do something. And the scapegoat can even be guilty to a degree of this or that, that makes it even easier to do; MAGA people might be easy prey to pick on. But they are not the reason why the media isn't trustworthy.

TheDeamon

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Re: Pencemegeddon
« Reply #140 on: January 07, 2021, 02:10:21 PM »
Insurrection is a bit much, but plenty of them were openly calling for one. I'm not sure why you think the entire crowd scaling walls and breaking into the capital was  anti-fa Trump and Confederate flag false flag operations. The only reason to think that is that you don't want to admit that the Trump crowd turned violent, assaulted police, broke the windows and doors of the capital and acted like a violent mob. They did exactly what Trump told them to do, marched to then fought at the capital.

The entire crowd was antifa? Where did I assert that? I'm pretty sure I've stated previously that I expect both sides to be found as having been involved. Bundy's bunch of people have a recent track record of doing comparable things in the past(See: Idaho this past summer).

I could also completely see AntiFa's black block inserting themselves into the activities going on in order to discredit their foes. And as I've pointed out there is some social media reporting involving at least a couple of the higher profile persons in yesterday's insanity(in particular the wanna be Viking),  which indicates they were either BLM or AntiFa affiliated as of this past summer.

As per the "Idaho model" on assaulting a capital building, some of the property damage was possibly accidental and might have a right-winger associated with it.

But most of the intentional property destruction that was being reported? I'd strongly suspect that to be AntiFa trying to false-flag.

Quote
Do you hold Trump blameless in this? He's been building laying the ground for years with lies about fraudulent elections. He built set the conditions for a fire, set a spark, then watched it burn at the capital. His response was hours later to tell the rioters he loved them but they had done enough and should go home. F*** that, he's a monster.

Trump is more than capable of being an idiot, and he certainly has blame to share on this, but this one I'm going to attribute to incompetence on his part, not malice aforethought.

Aris Katsaris

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Re: Pencemegeddon
« Reply #141 on: January 07, 2021, 02:16:05 PM »
I could also completely see AntiFa's black block inserting themselves into the activities going on in order to discredit their foes. And as I've pointed out there is some social media reporting involving at least a couple of the higher profile persons in yesterday's insanity(in particular the wanna be Viking),  which indicates they were either BLM or AntiFa affiliated as of this past summer.

The "wannabe-Viking" has been identified as Jake Angeli, who is a well-known far-right QAnon and Trump supporter -- he was indeed present at a BLM rally, but to OPPOSE the BLM rally you idiot, not in support of it.

Good, now that this has been easily disproven, same as every conspiracy theory by every Trump source ever, with a mere 2 minutes of googling reputable sources, will you stop spreading the Trumpist lies, and in fact stop listening to them as well? Since Trump and his Trumpists are lying liars that lie constantly?

Will you express remorse for spreading those lies further?
« Last Edit: January 07, 2021, 02:18:20 PM by Aris Katsaris »

Aris Katsaris

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Re: Pencemegeddon
« Reply #142 on: January 07, 2021, 02:23:15 PM »
But they are not the reason why the media isn't trustworthy.

They're not trustworthy, but guess what, they're about 1000 times more trustworthy than the "alternative" Trumpist sources that the Trumpists use to get informed.

Should I remind you that we're still waiting for that data from the supposed raids in Frankfurt and Spain, when the DoD (the good guys) battled CIA mercenaries (the bad guys) and won? wmLambert insisted it's true.

Blaming Trumpists on the untrustworthiness of the media (not counting Trump-friendly media like Fox, of course, which are indeed to blame) is like blaming the existence of flat-earthers on the scientific establishment or blaming the existence of anti-vaxxers on the medical establishment.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2021, 02:27:09 PM by Aris Katsaris »

yossarian22c

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Re: Pencemegeddon
« Reply #143 on: January 07, 2021, 02:25:42 PM »
Insurrection is a bit much, but plenty of them were openly calling for one. I'm not sure why you think the entire crowd scaling walls and breaking into the capital was  anti-fa Trump and Confederate flag false flag operations. The only reason to think that is that you don't want to admit that the Trump crowd turned violent, assaulted police, broke the windows and doors of the capital and acted like a violent mob. They did exactly what Trump told them to do, marched to then fought at the capital.

The entire crowd was antifa? Where did I assert that? I'm pretty sure I've stated previously that I expect both sides to be found as having been involved. Bundy's bunch of people have a recent track record of doing comparable things in the past(See: Idaho this past summer).

That's some nice self serving BS. How many false flag anti-fa operatives do you think were there? 5? 10? 100? That crowd was enraged by Trump then he pointed them in the direction of the capital and they did what he wanted them to do.

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I could also completely see AntiFa's black block inserting themselves into the activities going on in order to discredit their foes. And as I've pointed out there is some social media reporting involving at least a couple of the higher profile persons in yesterday's insanity(in particular the wanna be Viking),  which indicates they were either BLM or AntiFa affiliated as of this past summer.

How many antifa operatives does it take do turn a Trump peaceful protest into a mob scaling the walls, assaulting police, and breaking into the capital?

Quote
As per the "Idaho model" on assaulting a capital building, some of the property damage was possibly accidental and might have a right-winger associated with it.

But most of the intentional property destruction that was being reported? I'd strongly suspect that to be AntiFa trying to false-flag.

More self serving BS. I hope they find and arrest every jackass that went for a stroll through the capital yesterday then we'll have proof. How about the people photographed inside Pelosi's office or the person announcing Trump won the election from the speakers podium (or maybe that was in the Senate chambers). I doubt the republican state representative from WV was an antifa false flagger. He entered the capital.
Quote
Quote
Do you hold Trump blameless in this? He's been building laying the ground for years with lies about fraudulent elections. He built set the conditions for a fire, set a spark, then watched it burn at the capital. His response was hours later to tell the rioters he loved them but they had done enough and should go home. F*** that, he's a monster.

Trump is more than capable of being an idiot, and he certainly has blame to share on this, but this one I'm going to attribute to incompetence on his part, not malice aforethought.

Quit excusing him. He literally has been lying about winning the election and it being stolen from him for months. He intentionally held a rally on the day of the certification, went out fired up the crowd, then told them to march down to the capital and fight. If he couldn't see the outcome of that then he's a bigger idiot than I give him credit for. He is an idiot (in many ways) but he's an expert con man, he knows exactly how to manipulate people. Quit giving him a pass. He's dangerous.

yossarian22c

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Re: Pencemegeddon
« Reply #144 on: January 07, 2021, 02:48:40 PM »
This should only show everyone how dangerous information warfare (which is waged against all Americans every day) is. Because if a lawful election really was undermined by corruption and fraud then this would not only be a legitimate action to take, but in the American spirit would almost be required if you had any honor. So only on the grounds that the fraud charge is bogus does this instead look like sore loser bullying. And this is a distinction not just about worldview but about actual information on the ground. X is either true or it is not true, and the extent to which information is no longer trusted because words on a page are just chicken scratch handed down from "unnamed insider sources" or "senior officials" means that it being true or not true is utterly beyond anyone's ability to discern. This isn't an R vs D issue, it's an issue fundamental to the very fabric of the American media and political system.

More false equivalence BS. The election wasn't undermined by corruption and fraud. Every state has certified their votes, Barr said the justice department found no evidence of fraud, Trump lawsuits have presented zero fraudulent votes in court, Trump's own head of election security certified the election was secure, and no one has found any widespread voter fraud efforts. All of the certification and statements of accuracy were done in public by named officials and judges, democrats and republicans not unnamed sources. You have to distrust everyone but Trump and news sources to the right of Fox in order to believe there was any evidence of fraud on the scale that could change the election. Romney, Graham, McConnel have all said this was a fair election. Its only people playing to Trump's base that are going along with his nonsense. Did you notice that most of them didn't argue that fraud happened so we need to investigate but they argued people believe fraud happened so we're going to object to validate their concerns. Trump spread lies, people believed them, therefore we have to hold up certifications to again review the fraud claims. They ignored the fact that every specific claim of fraud has been debunked.

The right has fomented this distrust in authority for years. Now its getting hard to see how this ends well for the nation, they've all been coopted by Trump and he wants to be a dictator and they won't listen to anyone else.

yossarian22c

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Re: Pencemegeddon
« Reply #145 on: January 07, 2021, 02:57:51 PM »
Just going to put this out there again...

I think there is a non-zero chance that section 4 of the 25th amendment will be exercised before the end of the year.

The president incited a riot on the capital and then sat in a bunker and watched it happen. 25th amendment, impeachment, get him gone.

Chao is resigning from the cabinet. I think that takes the 25th off the table. Trump loyalists hold to many other cabinet level offices (those that are filled with someone senate confirmed anyway). If the 25th was strongly in play I would expect cabinet level people to stay instead of resign. Pelosi should bring up a vote for impeachment tomorrow and send it to the Senate immediately.

TheDeamon

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Re: Pencemegeddon
« Reply #146 on: January 07, 2021, 02:58:51 PM »
I could also completely see AntiFa's black block inserting themselves into the activities going on in order to discredit their foes. And as I've pointed out there is some social media reporting involving at least a couple of the higher profile persons in yesterday's insanity(in particular the wanna be Viking),  which indicates they were either BLM or AntiFa affiliated as of this past summer.

The "wannabe-Viking" has been identified as Jake Angeli, who is a well-known far-right QAnon and Trump supporter -- he was indeed present at a BLM rally, but to OPPOSE the BLM rally you idiot, not in support of it.

That was part of the "uncertain provenance" of the evidence and need to wait to obtain further information. He was presumed BLM until demonstrated otherwise, you've demonstrated otherwise. Good work.

Now there still is the (alleged) Philly Anti-Fa guy to deal with just yet.

msquared

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Re: Pencemegeddon
« Reply #147 on: January 07, 2021, 03:02:21 PM »
Why are they presumed to be BLM and antifa when it was a  Trump rally?  It should be assumed they are Trump supporters unless you can prove otherwise.

TheDeamon

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Re: Pencemegeddon
« Reply #148 on: January 07, 2021, 03:04:54 PM »
That's some nice self serving BS. How many false flag anti-fa operatives do you think were there? 5? 10? 100? That crowd was enraged by Trump then he pointed them in the direction of the capital and they did what he wanted them to do.

For breaking windows? Depending on how wide spread that behavior was? Just 3 or 4 might do.

Virtual conceptions of the "wisdom of the crowd" tend to forget just how dumb an actual crowd of people can be as people "get caught up in the moment." They're often very easily led if given the right stimuli, Trump certainly didn't help improve the situation. If anything, he helped make them easier to manipulate.

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More self serving BS. I hope they find and arrest every jackass that went for a stroll through the capital yesterday then we'll have proof. How about the people photographed inside Pelosi's office or the person announcing Trump won the election from the speakers podium (or maybe that was in the Senate chambers). I doubt the republican state representative from WV was an antifa false flagger. He entered the capital.

I hope they do so too, if only to remove any ambiguity over who was doing what. The people who were destroying stuff definitely need to be charged without regard to what their politics may or may not be.

TheDeamon

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Re: Pencemegeddon
« Reply #149 on: January 07, 2021, 03:06:19 PM »
Why are they presumed to be BLM and antifa when it was a  Trump rally?  It should be assumed they are Trump supporters unless you can prove otherwise.

He became "presumed BLM" when evidence surfaced "linking him to BLM," until context was provided to demonstrate that link was his being a counter-protestor at a BLM rally.