Author Topic: The Party of personal responsibility?  (Read 2584 times)

msquared

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The Party of personal responsibility?
« on: January 22, 2021, 10:41:39 PM »
Protestors and rioters are now claiming that Trump made them do it.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/lawyers-for-accused-capitol-rioters-outline-a-defense-the-president-made-them-do-it-014900543.html

These rugged individuals were led like sheep. It is not their fault. They can not be blamed. They are victims of a President who would pardon a bunch of financial criminals (especially bribery and other fraud scams) but would not pardon them.

msquared

TheDeamon

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Re: The Party of personal responsibility?
« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2021, 01:53:06 AM »
Not all Trump supporters were Republicans prior to Trump becoming the president. They're unlikely to remain Republican without Trump present. Their investment in being Republican is about the Trump association and not anything to do with traditional Republicanism.  Not that the clowns in DC have concerned themselves with traditional Republicanism since a brief period in the 90's

Grant

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Re: The Party of personal responsibility?
« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2021, 08:01:32 AM »
Protestors and rioters are now claiming that Trump made them do it.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/lawyers-for-accused-capitol-rioters-outline-a-defense-the-president-made-them-do-it-014900543.html

These rugged individuals were led like sheep. It is not their fault. They can not be blamed. They are victims of a President who would pardon a bunch of financial criminals (especially bribery and other fraud scams) but would not pardon them.

msquared

We'll see how well that defense works in a courtroom. 

But, they kinda do have a point.   They WERE led around like a bunch of sheep.  They let themselves be led.  Baaaaaaaaaaa. 

DonaldD

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Re: The Party of personal responsibility?
« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2021, 08:23:06 AM »
Ai, caramba: Texas GOP now an official offshoot of QAnon

Quote
Follow Us on GAB!

@TexasGOP

WE ARE THE STORM

The Texas GOP - proudly affiliating with domestic terrorists and wing nuts since 2020.

Grant

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Re: The Party of personal responsibility?
« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2021, 09:07:14 AM »
The Texas GOP - proudly affiliating with domestic terrorists and wing nuts since 2020.

Allen West was too crazy for Florida so he's trying to make it in Texas. 

DonaldD

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Re: The Party of personal responsibility?
« Reply #5 on: January 25, 2021, 09:58:14 AM »
That moment when a septuagenarian first realizes that actions have consequences: Dominion sues Giuliani for $1.3 billion over 'Big Lie' about election fraud

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(CNN) - Dominion Voting Systems has sued former President Donald Trump's personal lawyer Rudy Giuliani for defamation after he pushed the "Big Lie" about election fraud on his podcast and TV appearances.

Dominion is seeking more than $1.3 billion in damages.

"Just as Giuliani and his allies intended, the Big Lie went viral on social media as people tweeted, retweeted, and raged that Dominion had stolen their votes. While some lies -- little lies -- flare up on social media and die with the next news cycle, the Big Lie was different," lawyers for Dominion wrote in the lawsuit, filed in DC District Court on Monday morning. "The harm to Dominion's business and reputation is unprecedented and irreparable because of how fervently millions of people believe it."

Grant

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Re: The Party of personal responsibility?
« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2021, 10:30:12 AM »
That moment when a septuagenarian first realizes that actions have consequences:

Oh, he first realized it on the morning of the 20th when he didn't get a get-out-of-jail free pardon from his master.   

TheDeamon

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Re: The Party of personal responsibility?
« Reply #7 on: January 25, 2021, 02:23:11 PM »
Presidential Pardon wouldn't protect against civil liability, just criminal. And only at the federal level, states could still pursue it if they have a relevant jurisdiction.

DonaldD

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Re: The Party of personal responsibility?
« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2021, 11:39:29 AM »
The Oregon Republican Party, joining Arizona, has gone completely, batch!t crazy

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Whereas history tells us that after George Washington appointed Major General Benedict Arnold to command West Point, Arnold conspired to surrender the fort to the British.

...

Whereas the ten Republican House members, by voting to impeach President Trump, repeated history by conspiring to surrender our nation to Leftist forces seeking to establish a dictatorship void of all cherished freedoms and liberties.

...

Whereas there is growing evidence that the violence at the Capitol was a 'false flag' operation designed to discredit President Trump, his supporters, and all conservative Republicans; this provided the sham motivation to impeach President Trump in order to advance the Democrat goal of seizing total power, in a frightening parallel to the February 1933 burning of the German Reichstag.

Are there still any sane people willing and able to take back the Republican party from the nut bars currently driving the clown car off the cliff? (I know, I know, but reality actually calls for mixing 3 different metaphors in the same sentence)

TheDrake

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Re: The Party of personal responsibility?
« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2021, 12:07:37 PM »
The Oregon Republican Party, joining Arizona, has gone completely, batch!t crazy

Quote
Whereas history tells us that after George Washington appointed Major General Benedict Arnold to command West Point, Arnold conspired to surrender the fort to the British.

...

Whereas the ten Republican House members, by voting to impeach President Trump, repeated history by conspiring to surrender our nation to Leftist forces seeking to establish a dictatorship void of all cherished freedoms and liberties.

...

Whereas there is growing evidence that the violence at the Capitol was a 'false flag' operation designed to discredit President Trump, his supporters, and all conservative Republicans; this provided the sham motivation to impeach President Trump in order to advance the Democrat goal of seizing total power, in a frightening parallel to the February 1933 burning of the German Reichstag.

Are there still any sane people willing and able to take back the Republican party from the nut bars currently driving the clown car off the cliff? (I know, I know, but reality actually calls for mixing 3 different metaphors in the same sentence)

Growing evidence? That's so nuts they are attracting squirrels.

Grant

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Re: The Party of personal responsibility?
« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2021, 12:45:29 PM »
Growing evidence? That's so nuts they are attracting squirrels.

Yes

DonaldD

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Re: The Party of personal responsibility?
« Reply #11 on: January 28, 2021, 11:19:35 AM »
Is the Republican party now broken beyond repair?

The QAnon wing of the party is clearly now ascendent.  'Regular' GOP members either support, or worse, believe the conspiracy, or are too cowed to object.

The members are even so afraid of being primaried that they refuse to even investigate the insurrection that might have led to some of their executions.

There is literally a GOP congressperson who has publicly supported and agreed with calls for the murder of other members of Congress and a former president... and yet I am unaware of any significant number of GOP members of Congress that are willing to describe those actions as unacceptable, never mind calling for that member's censure.

The question is whether they really believe there is enough independent support for this level of wackadoodle and evil in the country to avoid them being relegated to permanent opposition status.

Grant

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Re: The Party of personal responsibility?
« Reply #12 on: January 28, 2021, 11:39:29 AM »
Is the Republican party now broken beyond repair?

The QAnon wing of the party is clearly now ascendent.  'Regular' GOP members either support, or worse, believe the conspiracy, or are too cowed to object.

The members are even so afraid of being primaried that they refuse to even investigate the insurrection that might have led to some of their executions.

Not sure if the QAnon wing is really ascendant or not.  Approval ratings for Cruz and Hawley actually went down after 1-6 among Republicans. The problem is that establishment Republican favorability hasn't really gone up either in the same amount of time.   

They're right to fear being primaried.  So many moderate Republican voters simply walked away from the party over the last 4 years out of frustration and spite, that they no longer have a voice in the proceedings.  That's their own fault.  They want a different kind of Party but they refuse to stay and fight for the ship.  So the Trumpists, not necessarily ascendant, are simply left to ride the sinking ship to the bottom. 

msquared

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Re: The Party of personal responsibility?
« Reply #13 on: January 28, 2021, 11:48:44 AM »
This is the only reason I have not changed my official part registration with the voters office.  Is to try and help moderate candidates, if there are any, on future primaries.

yossarian22c

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Re: The Party of personal responsibility?
« Reply #14 on: January 28, 2021, 11:59:40 AM »
The question is if Democrats can nationalize these nut jobs and run against them in every district. Republicans try, I think with some degree of success, to run all of their races against Pelosi and AOC. The question is can Democrats tie Cruz, Howley, and QAnon supporters to all the Republicans from swing districts. If they can succeed in "nationalizing" the fringes in the same way Republicans try to brand all Democrats by the most liberal members then there is a real price to pay for keeping them around without speaking out against them. Otherwise, the cancer will continue eating the party from the inside because its less risky and is at least short term beneficial for rational members to look the other way at the crazy.

msquared

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Re: The Party of personal responsibility?
« Reply #15 on: January 28, 2021, 12:04:26 PM »
Of course GOP leaders are in the quandary that if they piss off the Tumpist, Trump goes out and forms his own party and takes 1/3 (or more) of the base with him for an election cycle or two. If they cave to him, he, and his wing job followers, get to set the agenda because they can always threaten to leave.  I don't think Trump would ever actually leave, because he and his party he would form would have zero chance in a general election against a normal GOP candidate and a Dem candidate, and Trump hates to loose.  Of course he would start every single election cycle stating that if his person looses, there was fraud involved.

DonaldD

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Re: The Party of personal responsibility?
« Reply #16 on: January 28, 2021, 12:13:49 PM »
Trump is unhealthy, overweight, has no interest in having healthy habits or taking care of himself, and is not getting any younger.

The likelihood of him being in any shape to campaign and be seen to be a force will decrease every year; sure, it's all probabilities at this point, but if I were a purely selfish, rational Republican, that math would factor heavily into my calculations of his benefit to me. 

Grant

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Re: The Party of personal responsibility?
« Reply #17 on: January 28, 2021, 12:22:26 PM »
Of course GOP leaders are in the quandary that if they piss off the Tumpist, Trump goes out and forms his own party and takes 1/3 (or more) of the base with him for an election cycle or two. If they cave to him, he, and his wing job followers, get to set the agenda because they can always threaten to leave.  I don't think Trump would ever actually leave, because he and his party he would form would have zero chance in a general election against a normal GOP candidate and a Dem candidate, and Trump hates to loose.  Of course he would start every single election cycle stating that if his person looses, there was fraud involved.

I think that if they left to form their "Patriot Party", that at most they would only take 1/6 to 1/10 of Republican voters with them.  I think most Trumpers still realize that splitting the party is only going to be a recipe for failure and irrelevance.  It's simply a bluff.  The real question is whether an establishment Republican party can still win elections.  In places where the party is strong, it shouldn't be a problem.  But in tight races it would be the end unless an establishment Republican party can bring back votes from the center.  Some of that depends on the direction the Democratic party is moving.  Running on defunding the police and socialism is still a recipe for failure at the national level. 

msquared

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Re: The Party of personal responsibility?
« Reply #18 on: January 28, 2021, 12:26:36 PM »
Donald

Trump is the healthiest person alive and will live forever.  If he dies it will obviously be by nefarious means (Obama and AOC had him killed) or he faked his death to go deep undercover in his battle against the liberal child molesters. Anything else is heresy.

Grant

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Re: The Party of personal responsibility?
« Reply #19 on: January 28, 2021, 12:34:41 PM »
or he faked his death to go deep undercover in his battle against the liberal child molesters.

I saw Trump drinking a piƱa colada outside of Trader Vic's.  His hair was perfect. 

DonaldD

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Re: The Party of personal responsibility?
« Reply #20 on: January 28, 2021, 12:36:15 PM »
Thankyou... thankyouverymuch

Lloyd Perna

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Re: The Party of personal responsibility?
« Reply #21 on: January 28, 2021, 12:36:55 PM »
There is literally a GOP congressperson who has publicly supported and agreed with calls for the murder of other members of Congress and a former president.

I call bull*censored* on this claim.  Please name the congressperson and provide the quote you are talking about.

DonaldD

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Re: The Party of personal responsibility?
« Reply #22 on: January 28, 2021, 12:43:09 PM »
Google is your friend.

msquared

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Re: The Party of personal responsibility?
« Reply #23 on: January 28, 2021, 12:49:35 PM »
Donald

To be fair, if Wm or Serati had made a claim like that we would have expected them to provide a link to back it up.  Of course Wm usually would not do that, but we all know you are better at that then he is.

yossarian22c

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Re: The Party of personal responsibility?
« Reply #24 on: January 28, 2021, 12:50:10 PM »
There is literally a GOP congressperson who has publicly supported and agreed with calls for the murder of other members of Congress and a former president.

I call bull*censored* on this claim.  Please name the congressperson and provide the quote you are talking about.

Quote
In one post, from January 2019, Greene liked a comment that said "a bullet to the head would be quicker" to remove House Speaker Nancy Pelosi. In other posts, Greene liked comments about executing FBI agents who, in her eyes, were part of the "deep state" working against Trump.
...
Elsewhere on her Facebook page, Greene liked comments that advocated to "arrest" Obama and former Secretary of State John Kerry and one comment that said, "HANG that bitch," referring to either Obama or Kerry or possibly both of them. She also liked a comment that urged for "civil war 2.0" to begin.

DonaldD

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Re: The Party of personal responsibility?
« Reply #25 on: January 28, 2021, 01:09:56 PM »
Donald

To be fair, if Wm or Serati had made a claim like that we would have expected them to provide a link to back it up.  Of course Wm usually would not do that, but we all know you are better at that then he is.

I would have more sympathy if Greene's statements weren't being reported on as headline news on all major media (yes, even on Fox) not to mention that all major media are also reporting on Congressman (D) Gomez' statement that he will introduce a resolution to expel her from Congress (yes, also on Fox).

Now, if Lloyd hadn't immediately implied that I was lying, I might have been more responsive to a request for more information.

msquared

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Re: The Party of personal responsibility?
« Reply #26 on: January 28, 2021, 01:10:34 PM »
yes but is it being reported on OANN and NewsMax? I mean those are the only true honest news sites out there. Truly the only unbiased bastions of truth left in the world. Shinning lights of honesty and all that is Trump in the barren waste land that is journalism.

Amen.

TheDrake

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Re: The Party of personal responsibility?
« Reply #27 on: January 28, 2021, 01:14:33 PM »
Anybody taking odds on Lloyd admitting that the Greene said that and that it wasn't bull*censored* after all? Or will the story be that Antifa hacked her twitter account?

DonaldD

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Re: The Party of personal responsibility?
« Reply #28 on: January 28, 2021, 01:17:46 PM »
Anybody taking odds on Lloyd admitting that the Greene said that and that it wasn't bull*censored* after all? Or will the story be that Antifa hacked her twitter account?
Well, hacked and also silenced every attempt for her to correct the record until this week... (and when I say "correct" that's reeeeaaaaally kinda/sorta)

Lloyd Perna

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Re: The Party of personal responsibility?
« Reply #29 on: January 28, 2021, 01:46:08 PM »
Anybody taking odds on Lloyd admitting that the Greene said that and that it wasn't bull*censored* after all? Or will the story be that Antifa hacked her twitter account?


Are you guys really suggesting that liking a comment on Facebook is the equivalent of saying the same thing?

DonaldD

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Re: The Party of personal responsibility?
« Reply #30 on: January 28, 2021, 01:47:39 PM »
The problem the GOP has with this, the on-going self inflicted wound, is that Greene is currently, temporarily, more effectively powerful than any other GOP member of Congress, and the rest of them are too terrified to act on what should be a slam dunk decision.

yossarian22c

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Re: The Party of personal responsibility?
« Reply #31 on: January 28, 2021, 01:47:50 PM »
Anybody taking odds on Lloyd admitting that the Greene said that and that it wasn't bull*censored* after all? Or will the story be that Antifa hacked her twitter account?


Are you guys really suggesting that liking a comment on Facebook is the equivalent of saying the same thing?

The claim was "publicly supported and agreed with." Isn't that what a like means?

msquared

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Re: The Party of personal responsibility?
« Reply #32 on: January 28, 2021, 01:48:45 PM »
Here is what Donald said.

"There is literally a GOP congressperson who has publicly supported and agreed with calls for the murder of other members of Congress and a former president... and yet I am unaware of any significant number of GOP members of Congress that are willing to describe those actions as unacceptable, never mind calling for that member's censure."

He said she supported and agreed with those calls.  Liking Facebooks posts that say those thing sure seems like she supports and agrees with the statements.  How else would you read it?

DonaldD

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Re: The Party of personal responsibility?
« Reply #33 on: January 28, 2021, 01:53:33 PM »
Are you guys really suggesting that liking a comment on Facebook is the equivalent of saying the same thing?

I'm glad you wrote "equivalent" and not "the same".  Yes, likes are equivalent to publicly saying "I agree with you".  That is their purpose.  Reposting something, like she also did, is more akin to verbally repeating what was stated.

Just to be clear, though - do you no-longer disagree with the statement you labelled as "bull*censored*" earlier?
Quote
There is literally a GOP congressperson who has publicly supported and agreed with calls for the murder of other members of Congress and a former president.

Notice the specific wording, BTW.

Lloyd Perna

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Re: The Party of personal responsibility?
« Reply #34 on: January 28, 2021, 01:54:06 PM »
Here is what Donald said.

"There is literally a GOP congressperson who has publicly supported and agreed with calls for the murder of other members of Congress and a former president... and yet I am unaware of any significant number of GOP members of Congress that are willing to describe those actions as unacceptable, never mind calling for that member's censure."

He said she supported and agreed with those calls.  Liking Facebooks posts that say those thing sure seems like she supports and agrees with the statements.  How else would you read it?

Sometimes it means that.  I usually like things that I find funny, or that I want my friends to see.  But if this is now the bar for cancellation I think there a large number of politicians, Democrats included that are in for some trouble.

msquared

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Re: The Party of personal responsibility?
« Reply #35 on: January 28, 2021, 01:57:05 PM »
Oh sometimes. How about most of the time. And if she does not add any other commentary, you know to maybe clarify that there are parts she might agree with and parts she might not, so we have to take it on face value, right?

Lloyd Perna

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Re: The Party of personal responsibility?
« Reply #36 on: January 28, 2021, 01:58:21 PM »
Oh sometimes. How about most of the time. And if she does not add any other commentary, you know to maybe clarify that there are parts she might agree with and parts she might not, so we have to take it on face value, right?

Or you could take her word for it when she clarifies it.

msquared

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Re: The Party of personal responsibility?
« Reply #37 on: January 28, 2021, 01:59:58 PM »
But has she?  Months later?

But to the point, Donald was not wrong and you called bull****.    His statement was correct.

DonaldD

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Re: The Party of personal responsibility?
« Reply #38 on: January 28, 2021, 02:03:11 PM »
Sometimes it means that.  I usually like things that I find funny, or that I want my friends to see.  But if this is now the bar for cancellation I think there a large number of politicians, Democrats included that are in for some trouble.
If there are other members of Congress who 'liked' calls for murder, or reposted same, without clarifying their intent, then I would absolutely want them, regardless of political stripe, to be raked over the coals for those statements - and at the very least, they should apologize for their irresponsibility, and take ownership of the mistakes.

Taylor Greene seems to know this, which is why she suggested that somebody else was using her Facebook account to post, that it wasn't her.  But no attempt was made to apologize for or to condemn those statements, as far as I have seen. What she dd say is something like "those statements do not reflect her position"

DonaldD

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Re: The Party of personal responsibility?
« Reply #39 on: January 28, 2021, 02:07:51 PM »
For some context, here is Greene not taking responsibility on Twitter:

Quote
Over the years, I've had teams of people manage my pages. Many posts have been liked. Many posts have been shared. Some did not represent my views. Especially the ones that CNN is about to spread across the internet

Notice what she does NOT say...

Lloyd Perna

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Re: The Party of personal responsibility?
« Reply #40 on: January 28, 2021, 02:23:21 PM »
This seems pretty clear to me "Some did not represent my views. Especially the ones that CNN is about to spread across the internet"

yossarian22c

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Re: The Party of personal responsibility?
« Reply #41 on: January 28, 2021, 02:27:54 PM »
Taylor Greene seems to know this, which is why she suggested that somebody else was using her Facebook account to post, that it wasn't her.  But no attempt was made to apologize for or to condemn those statements, as far as I have seen. What she dd say is something like "those statements do not reflect her position"

What was she doing prior to running for office that she would have other people posting on her personal facebook page?

TheDrake

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Re: The Party of personal responsibility?
« Reply #42 on: January 28, 2021, 02:31:52 PM »
If one of my friends, not a politician and not a celebrity, "likes" something - well I assume that means they like it. That's why it is called that. If somebody forwards it without commentary, I assume they support it.

If someone else manages somebody's social media account, for instance Sara Lee, and they post something that does not reflect the views of the company? Well, let's just say it is bad for the brand.

But I'll put a bookmark on here for the next time a Democrat like AOC "likes" something that you disagree with Lloyd. I'm sure it will be entertaining to watch your backflip.

TheDrake

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Re: The Party of personal responsibility?
« Reply #43 on: January 28, 2021, 02:59:14 PM »
BTW, let's review. Greene thinks that Pelosi belongs to a ring of satan worshipping pedophiles. Is it really such a stretch to think that she wishes Pelosi was dead?

kidv

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Re: The Party of personal responsibility?
« Reply #44 on: January 28, 2021, 03:00:05 PM »
"Greene said Pelosi was "a traitor to our country, she's guilty of treason," saying it was "a crime punishable by death."

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2021/01/27/marjorie-taylor-greene-facing-backlash-democrats-over-comments/4282313001/

What Greene "said," as an adjunct to just what she "liked" or agreed with. [circa Jan 2019]

[and then she liked a post saying "a bullet to the head would be quicker"]
« Last Edit: January 28, 2021, 03:04:18 PM by kidv »

msquared

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Re: The Party of personal responsibility?
« Reply #45 on: January 28, 2021, 03:08:01 PM »
but she should not be held personally responsible for her statements and what she did online (or was done in her name on line).  I mean she is a member of the party of Personal Non responsibility.  I mean check out Trump.  It was never his fault.  Ever.  None of the bankruptcies, not the Pandemic Response, not the loss in the election. There is no Buck to stop.

TheDrake

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Re: The Party of personal responsibility?
« Reply #46 on: January 28, 2021, 03:40:04 PM »
TRUMP WAS THE GREATEST PRESIDENT OF ALL TIME! THE STORM IS COMING!

Maybe Marjorie will like my post.

DonaldD

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Re: The Party of personal responsibility?
« Reply #47 on: January 28, 2021, 03:49:51 PM »
BTW, let's review. Greene thinks that Pelosi belongs to a ring of satan worshipping pedophiles. Is it really such a stretch to think that she wishes Pelosi was dead?

Ignoring for a moment that the belief in the existence of a secret cabal of Satan-worshipping, cannibalistic pedophiles which is running a global child sex-trafficking ring is a level of batch!t craziness that should already be disqualifying for anybody to hold office, this is also something I wanted to ask: she believes Pelosi eats people, that Pelosi is a pedophile, and that Pelosi associates with a global ring of other cannibalistic pedophiles who are running a secret world government, yet she only "liked" and reposted comments calling for Pelosi's death, not because she agreed with them, but because... "hey, look what people are saying!".

If I honestly thought that somebody was eating babies and helping other people to eat and sexually abuse babies, and getting away with it because they controlled the justice system, I just might support having that person killed...

Darn it... what it is this thread called again?  I feel like we may have gone off topic.  Oh, no, my mistake.  It's pretty much on the nose, still.

TheDrake

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Re: The Party of personal responsibility?
« Reply #48 on: January 28, 2021, 04:09:57 PM »
Off topic? It wasn't me. I was never there. You misunderstood. I was joking. It wasn't my fault. Some other person did it first. Some other person was worse.

msquared

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Re: The Party of personal responsibility?
« Reply #49 on: January 28, 2021, 04:12:31 PM »
I'm msquared and  I approve this message.