Author Topic: Border crisis  (Read 11242 times)

LetterRip

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Re: Border crisis
« Reply #50 on: April 18, 2021, 01:17:47 PM »
Imagine if we'd secured our borders early on. I know we can't actually secure our borders. Democrats have made sure of that. I also know we have no interest in securing our borders even if we could. Democrats and many Republicans like Bush have made sure of that too. But Australia and New Zealand show us exactly what we've given up. Hundreds of thousands of dead, millions seriously sickened, and any chance at a normal life.

The main sources of pandemic infections were US travelers returning to the US, then international flights especially UK travelers.  The Mexican and Canadian border played essentially no role.  We can tell the pathway that strains that emerged in the US took because we can track the mutation history.  So yes if Trump had been even slightly competent we could have vastly reduced the number of deaths.  But your idea that immigrants crossing the mexican border had a role is completely opposed to the evidence.

cherrypoptart

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Re: Border crisis
« Reply #51 on: April 18, 2021, 03:25:17 PM »
https://news.yahoo.com/biden-white-house-refugee-cap-democrats-congress-jayapal-omar-menendez-durbin-200735430.html

"Congressional Democrats blast 'unconscionable' Biden decision capping refugee admittance"

So doesn't this mean that Biden is officially a racist now?

And no it doesn't matter that there is a procedure and with any procedure there will be constraints.

And I also saw a story about how because of those constraints on resources many legal immigrants including wives and husbands of American citizens are not being allowed to come into the country and are having to wait months more than they should because scarce manpower is being diverted to process illegals. Some even after being encouraged to just come on a tourist visa said no they want to do things the right way and so are waiting their turn while hundreds of thousands come illegally and Biden lets them jump the queue.

cherrypoptart

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Re: Border crisis
« Reply #52 on: April 18, 2021, 04:03:28 PM »


"The main sources of pandemic infections were US travelers returning to the US, then international flights especially UK travelers."

That was then. This is now. As we get more and more Americans vaccinated and hopefully approach herd immunity the new flare ups are more and more likely to come from unvaccinated people entering the country, possibly bringing in new variants our vaccines don't protect well against, and especially if there are no controls on those people such as testing, vaccination, and quarantine.

I fully agree that millions of Americans are not helping matters by throwing off their masks and refusing to get vaccinated and going out and partying anyway. They are definitely a problem. But there isn't any point to making it worse with hundreds of thousands of people coming across our border virtually unchecked.

Let's say we did get to herd immunity. What then? The only way to keep it is to do what Australia and New Zealand have done and institute severe travel restrictions especially when our herd immunity is composed of only a very thin herd with tens of millions still unvaccinated and most of them not in any mood to adhere to common sense methods of protection like masks and social distancing. Add some new variants to that like the one we are seeing now that is worse for children and we're going put ourselves right back into a world of hurt.

LetterRip

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Re: Border crisis
« Reply #53 on: April 18, 2021, 06:10:19 PM »
That was then. This is now.

The main source of infections now is americans already living in the US by an absurd margin, border crossers will be a miniscule contribution (At a guess less than.1% - but haven't ran the numbers)

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As we get more and more Americans vaccinated and hopefully approach herd immunity the new flare ups are more and more likely to come from unvaccinated people entering the country

If we have herd immunity, then flare ups from any source are unlikely.  The US almost certainly won't achieve herd immunity in most locations due to anti-vaccination sentiments.  Also flare ups will almost certainly be from US individuals.  It is incredibly unlikely that more than say, 5% of infections will ever be caused by border crossers unless we eradicate COVID-19, which is unlikely in the current public context.

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possibly bringing in new variants our vaccines don't protect well against, and especially if there are no controls on those people such as testing, vaccination, and quarantine.

New variants is definitely a concern.  Again the most likely source will be Americans traveling abroad, and business and tourist flights and also from the unvaccinated population serving as a source of new variants.

See for instance https://www.washingtonpost.com/travel/2021/03/05/uk-brazil-cdc-covid-variant/

Border crossers aren't really ever likely to be the source because the variants will usually get here drastically faster by plane (The requirements that the Biden administration has implemented might reduce the risk from air travellers somewhat, but not enough that border crossers are likely to have a greater risk).

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Let's say we did get to herd immunity. What then? The only way to keep it is to do what Australia and New Zealand have done and institute severe travel restrictions especially when our herd immunity is composed of only a very thin herd with tens of millions still unvaccinated and most of them not in any mood to adhere to common sense methods of protection like masks and social distancing. Add some new variants to that like the one we are seeing now that is worse for children and we're going put ourselves right back into a world of hurt.

Again, the US is unlikely to get herd immunity.

See https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-00728-2

Without herd immunity - new variants are likely to emerge from the unvaccinated population.

msquared

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Re: Border crisis
« Reply #54 on: April 18, 2021, 07:39:43 PM »
And I blame most of the vaccine hesitancy on Trump and his hangers on, since they have been down playing the vaccine since it came out. Which is surprising to me because you thing Trump would be pushing it to all of his supporters.

oldbrian

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Re: Border crisis
« Reply #55 on: April 19, 2021, 01:37:47 PM »
Edgmatt:
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And we can't make different rules for different people based on how much money they have.

I'm just going to let this one sink in for a while...  :)

cherrypoptart

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Re: Border crisis
« Reply #56 on: May 08, 2021, 03:05:24 PM »
Biden policy separates children from their parents.

https://news.yahoo.com/2-100-kids-crossed-border-164903691.html

"2,100 kids crossed border alone after being expelled with families"

So they the children were with their parents. And Biden told them no you can't come in with your parents but if you separate from your parents and try to come in without them then we'll let you in.

So again, we're told the goal is to keep the families together and yet the result is that the Biden policy tears them apart. And that is par for the course with so much of the Democrat agenda. Good intentions that achieve the opposite of what they say they want.

cherrypoptart

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Re: Border crisis
« Reply #57 on: May 08, 2021, 03:12:23 PM »
"If we have herd immunity, then flare ups from any source are unlikely."

Unless a variant that can evade the vaccine induced immune response is produced in another country like India or Brazil or Germany (just to not be racist) and then we let it in. Sure, the same variant or a similar one could arise domestically and maybe it does and maybe it doesn't. If it does then we're toast but if it doesn't and we don't have secure borders with sensible travel restrictions then we would have been okay but we made a decision to take unnecessary chances and so again we're toast.

Now sure the U.S. could produce a bad variant domestically. Totally possible. We have over 300 million people. But it seems like statistically it's even more likely that the world at large could produce that terrible variant because they have, just checked it, 7.9 billion people. And we've got a good fraction of ours vaccinated now whereas they don't. And we could all produce bad variants too. No reason for one and not the other. And then we get the joy of combining ours with theirs.