Author Topic: Election Results  (Read 319263 times)

Tom

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #2150 on: November 15, 2022, 06:22:55 PM »
There are two issues here:

1) Not delivering a promise to student voters and/or misrepresenting the extent to which a politicial initiative is successful is a bad thing. Of course, no one here is entertaining for even a moment that Biden's more of a liar -- even in this sense -- than Trump; that would just be ridiculous. But it's certainly the case that progressive voters are not thrilled by Biden's track record, and it's valid to criticize him for inflating his accomplishments to increase their enthusiasm for voting.

2) Lying does not, of course, equate to "voter fraud" in any meaningful way; you yourself acknowledge that you're only making that silly attempt in order to deflect material discussions of the topic that are less favorable to the MAGA crowd.

Wayward Son

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #2151 on: November 16, 2022, 10:41:13 AM »
A few things occurred to me this morning, cherry.

1.  Remember that Biden is a gaffe machine.  The press hasn't been emphasizing it lately, but we all remember his reputation for misspeaking and saying the wrong thing when he was Vice-President.  So the fact that he misspoke is not surprising, and not indicative that he was intentionally lying.

2.  Although the youth vote was higher than it has historically been, it's still very low.  Which means that lying to them is one of the least effective lie a politician can make. :)

3.  When did you have this "come to religion" moment when you realized that misleading the public is so bad you can call it "voter fraud?"  ???  I mean, where were you when politicians were talking about:
A. Obama being born in Kenya;
B. Al Gore inventing the Internet;
C. Hillary Clinton saying we should open the borders;
D. Donald Trump saying he actually won the election by millions of votes.
E. Democrats wanting to legalize abortion until the moment of birth.

I don't recall you being this upset over all those lies.  So why now?  And why over this insignificant lie?  And will your outrage last beyond this one instance?  You have plenty of opportunity for outrage just from Trump's announcement last night.  Let's hear some of that righteous wrath directed at the lying machine that is Donald J. Trump.

You'll get quite a bit of more cred if you do.  ;)

NobleHunter

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #2152 on: November 16, 2022, 11:10:04 AM »
cherry, you said on the other thread that the loan program can't get passed the courts. Has someone solved the standing problem? AFAIK, they can't find anyone specifically harmed by the program who can sue the administration even if it's executive overreach. Not unless they want to authorize every Tom, Dick, and Harry suits against any government expenditure they don't like.

cherrypoptart

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #2153 on: November 16, 2022, 11:37:32 AM »
As for the lies, I didn't find Trump's particularly egregious. Most I thought were taken out of context or puffery or the main point behind them was true. Hillary opening the borders? I mean as far as I'm concerned Biden has opened the borders. Democrats won't see it that way of course which means even if Hillary did the same thing they wouldn't see it as opening the borders despite from the conservative point of view that's exactly what it is.

But the main thing is that a big deal was made of Trump's lies and now Biden gets a pass. Sure we'd like to hold each other to each other's standards but apparently that's never going to happen.

The standing issue is a tough one. I don't know. Maybe Congress can do something about it. Can Congress file a lawsuit against the President for usurping their powers? Would be a tough go in the Senate now.

By the way, there is one last chance apparently for Republicans to win a majority in the Senate. They'd need Georgia of course. And then according to Hannity all they'd need is to win Manchin. Biden's lies might finally catch up to him because allegedly, according to Hannity if I remember correctly (gotta include all the disclaimers to hopefully avoid a lawsuit nowadays), Biden and Schumer lied to Manchin with some sort of dirty energy promises to get the inflation acceleration legislation passed and now that he tricked Manchin out of his vote just like he did the gullible indebted collegiates the knives come out and the backstabbing begins.

https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/coal-miners-slam-biden-white-house-walks-back-shut-down-pledge-trying-destroy-country

EXCLUSIVE — Coal miners and industry groups representing coal production companies ripped President Biden days after he pledged to shut down coal plants and replace them with wind and solar alternatives.

"We're going to be shutting these plants down all across America and having wind and solar power," Biden remarked during a campaign event in Southern California late last week.

"[It is] cheaper to generate electricity from wind and solar than it is from coal and oil," he continued later in the speech. "Literally cheaper. Not a joke."

yossarian22c

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #2154 on: November 17, 2022, 09:21:30 AM »
Cherry since you have a new found interest in very accurate statements by Biden, calling it fraud when he misspoke about the method (executive vs legislative action) of the loan forgiveness plan his administration is organizing.

Would you care to chime in on these statements from Trump's 2024 bid.

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We built the wall, and now we will add to it. Now, we built the wall – we completed the wall – and then we said let’s do more, and we did a lot more. And we did a lot more. And as we were doing it, we had an election that came up. And when they came in, they had three more weeks to complete the additions to the wall, which would’ve been great, and they said no, no, we’re not going to do that


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and yet I’ve gone decades, decades without a war. The first president to do it for that long a period.

Emphasized the lying parts.

jc44

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #2155 on: November 17, 2022, 10:13:50 AM »
I think the difference is that we expect Biden (and most other people) to tell the truth and so it is newsworthy when he fails. Nobody expects Trump to tell the literal truth ever so it can be excused as "it's just his way of speaking".

Tom

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #2156 on: November 17, 2022, 10:38:58 AM »
Well, that's part of it. The other part is that many people (including liberals, although it's more common on the right) currently live inside a self-selected news bubble that insulates them from deeply shameful or alarming things their "side" does and repeats and histrionically condemns the antics of the Other.  When they aren't just completely making up crap or deliberately misrepresenting it, of course, which also happens.

I said thirty years ago that the biggest cultural and philosophical crisis of our age was going to be epistemological. I haven't seen any reason to second-guess that in the years since, although of course that may be a flaw in my epistemology. :)

rightleft22

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #2157 on: November 17, 2022, 10:52:35 AM »
I think the difference is that we expect Biden (and most other people) to tell the truth and so it is newsworthy when he fails. Nobody expects Trump to tell the literal truth ever so it can be excused as "it's just his way of speaking".

In his book Trump calls it Truthful hyperbole - 1+/-% truth/fact mixed with 99+/-% exaggeration and out right lies = truth and not lying. This slippery slope allows one to chose what to believe
If you have a event you don't want to believe happen and you can show that 1 of 10 facts can be proved to be wrong/lie you can discount the other 9. Or if you want to believe and can show 1 of 10 lies was true, its all you need.
No cognitive distortion as long as you don't' look to closely at yourself or the Leader

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many people (including liberals, although it's more common on the right) currently live inside a self-selected news bubble

In the digital information age thier is only room for 0 or 1, like or dislike, with me or against me.... While real life is 99% AND 
in the digtal age research = googling until you find what you already think, click like and now your a expert.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2022, 10:55:11 AM by rightleft22 »

NobleHunter

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #2158 on: November 17, 2022, 11:04:56 AM »
* The book that was ghostwritten for Trump

ETA: I don't know if I'm just more interested in the other side or that the liberal/leftist bubble is more permeable because what you don't know may include plans to kill you.

TheDrake

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #2159 on: November 17, 2022, 11:41:04 AM »
In order to think of this as a lie, you'd have to believe he thought he was trying to trick people into believing in imaginary legislation. Now, I know you've gotten used to a president who says easily disproven things on purpose, but I don't find it likely.

I see this equivalent to Trump claiming that revolutionary war troops took over airports. Factually incorrect, bonehead stupid, but not an attempt to mislead.

msquared

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #2160 on: November 29, 2022, 10:36:52 AM »
so MAGA Republicans in an AZ county are refusing to certify their election results, even though they voted heavily for Republicans.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/cochise-county-supervisors-prove-katie-140036365.html

If they get their way 1 national office and one state wide office that Republicans won will go Dem.  This is similar to Republicans in states Trump won easily saying fraud happened in their state.

Just a bunch of sore losers.

NobleHunter

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #2161 on: November 29, 2022, 10:45:00 AM »
I'd be as happy as the next gay if another district goes to the democrats, that a couple of idiots can throw out thousands of votes is alarming. I'm glad someone is suing to try and get these people to do their jobs. If there are voting irregularities, I'm sure they'll present evidence for them in court.

msquared

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #2162 on: November 29, 2022, 10:46:59 AM »
That is the story. The person suing is one of the people who would be helped if the votes in the county did not get counted.  She is suing against her own personal best interest. She is doing her job which can not be said by the Republican members in the county.

TheDrake

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #2163 on: November 29, 2022, 03:11:40 PM »
so MAGA Republicans in an AZ county are refusing to certify their election results, even though they voted heavily for Republicans.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/cochise-county-supervisors-prove-katie-140036365.html

If they get their way 1 national office and one state wide office that Republicans won will go Dem.  This is similar to Republicans in states Trump won easily saying fraud happened in their state.

Just a bunch of sore losers.

This is what happens when you put a bunch of Keurig smashers in charge of things.

NobleHunter

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #2164 on: November 29, 2022, 03:27:30 PM »
The worst part is that if the votes don't get counted a lot of people will believe that the Democrats sued to stop the certification and stole the seat. Because that's the story the GOP and its media will tell them.

Wayward Son

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #2165 on: November 30, 2022, 10:43:52 AM »
In a strange turn of events, the Cochise County Board of Supervisors have not certified the election results from Nov. 8.  At least four lawsuits have been filed (so far), which they most likely will have to pay for out of their own pocket.

And what would the effect of not certifying the results be?  Not changing the outcomes of the governor's race or the senate race.

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However, if this does not get resolved by the time that Arizona is legally required to report its results (Dec. 8), then it will be as if the people of Cochise County never voted. That, in turn, would flip two election results: Superintendent of Public Instruction for Cochise County, and... House seat AZ-06. At the moment, Rep.-elect Juan Ciscomani (R), who won 50.7% of the vote, is headed to Washington. However, without those Cochise votes, it will be Kirsten Engel (D), who took 49.3%.

So sticking to their guns and principles, they would accomplish:

1. Possibly losing a lot of money in lawyer's fees
2. Possible jail time
3. Disenfranching every voter in their county
4. Denying a duly-elected Republican from taking his seat in the House
5. Gaining the respect of every Q-Anon person for "sticking it to the Dems."  ;D

All based on some fuzzy doubts about the integrity of their own election process.

You gotta admit, they ain't the brightest bulbs in the nation.  ;)

msquared

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #2166 on: November 30, 2022, 10:46:27 AM »
There is also a state wide race that would flip and the AG race would not need a recount.

wmLambert

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #2167 on: November 30, 2022, 08:01:41 PM »
AZ is under strict scrutiny because the one in charge of the election was running against Lake, and the voting was screwed-up big time. Hobbs said: "...My office has filed a lawsuit to ensure all voters have their votes county." Since she can't post grammatically and correctly, she defines her inadequacy. The lawsuits could not proceed until the votes were certified. That accreditation was today, so now the Lake lawsuits can go through. Cochise County couldn't certify their results, because they were legally incorrect and uncreditable. How does one certify something uncreditable? The Cochise county actions actually strengthen the Lake lawsuits.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2022, 08:05:09 PM by wmLambert »

msquared

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #2168 on: November 30, 2022, 10:26:20 PM »
So a typo is all you have against her? 

What evidence has been given that Cochise County's results were legally incorrect?  From what I have been able to find out they have not supplied any evidence what so ever of fraud of any type of voter suppression.

In fact Hobbs is suing Cochise County and if she wins it hurts Dems. Again no evidence of wide spread fraud or voter suppression. People were able to vote in Maricopa County, but they did have some issues. What issues did they have in Cochise?

msquared

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #2169 on: December 01, 2022, 07:31:32 AM »
And Hobbs running against Lake is basically just like Kemp running against  in GA. I do not remember you complaining about Kemp doing that. But we all know that was OK since he was a Republican.

How do you square Hobb's suit to force Cochise County to certify their votes (so that their voters are not disenfranchised) to the detriment of her own party? That sure sounds like someone doing the honorable thing to me.

Wayward Son

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #2170 on: December 01, 2022, 04:39:34 PM »
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Cochise County couldn't certify their results, because they were legally incorrect and uncreditable.

Where did you get this idea?

I did a Google search and didn't find anything. :(

rightleft22

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #2171 on: December 01, 2022, 05:22:52 PM »
Head scratcher I can't find any reported reasons that Cochise County voted to delay certifying the results of this year's midterm elections.
It appears they did it because the could???

If I was into conspiracy theory I think those that voted not to certify the results without providing reasons did so to undermine democracy in the hopes of... installing a dictator the next go around or they were paid off by one. :)

msquared

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #2172 on: December 01, 2022, 07:10:02 PM »
From what I have read they did it in protest to fraud they thought happened in Maricopa County. Sort of like when TX sue to invalidate the votes in PA and GA since they did not like the rules that GA and PA had.

msquared

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #2173 on: December 01, 2022, 07:45:30 PM »
Well Cochise County, compelled by the court, confirmed their vote total.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/cochise-county-disregarding-state-elections-130100498.html