The Jan 6 Commission

[msquared]

I mean the video it self shows people in the Capital when it was illegal to be in the Capital.  Just their presence on camera is evidence they broke the law. Now, as the charges have shown, most of the people charged for Jan 6 have not been charge for violent offences, but things like trespass.

[msquared]

Donald Trump blames Jan 6 on Pence.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2023/03/14/donald-trump-mike-pence-jan-6-blame/11469303002/

Does this sound familiar? "Why did you make me hit you?  If you had just done what I wanted it never would have happened."

[cherrypoptart]

So let's compare then. The Shaman got a 41 month prison sentence for carrying around a flag in the capital building.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/jan-6-rioter-known-as-qanon-shaman-sentenced-to-41-months

And for Molotov cocktailing a police vehicle?

"On Thursday afternoon, Judge Brian M. Cogan of U.S. District Court in Brooklyn sentenced Mr. Mattis, one of two young lawyers who burned the vehicle during the protests days after the murder of George Floyd, to 12 months and a day in prison and a year of post-release supervision."

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/26/nyregion/lawyers-sentenced-molotov-police-car.html

Are people really contending that the BLM rioters didn't get kid gloves treatment compared to the January 6thers?


As for evidence withheld:

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/03/09/politics/tucker-carlson-january-6-court-cases-us-capitol/index.html

A lawyer representing one of five Proud Boys members on trial for seditious conspiracy asked a federal judge to throw out the case Thursday, saying that federal prosecutors hid “plainly exculpatory” US Capitol security footage played on Fox News host Tucker Carlson’s show.

... Albert Watkins, the attorney who represented Chansley when he pleaded guilty, told CNN that he had never seen the videos of his client walking with officers in the Capitol.

“The government had a duty to disclose all evidence, especially exculpatory evidence,” Watkins said. “The government’s duty in this regard is not subject to discretion. It is an absolute duty.”

It is not clear, however, whether Chansley could take issue with the new video in court. Chansley pleaded guilty to obstructing an official proceeding in 2021 and was sentenced to 41 months in prison.

During his sentencing hearing, Chansley spoke at length about the guilt he felt for breaking the law and admitted, under oath, actions he took that broke the law inside the Capitol building. Prosecutors say police asked him to leave, and he refused.

His lawyer had argued to the judge he was peaceful during the riot, though Chansley had used a bullhorn to rile up the crowd and left a threatening note to then-Vice President Mike Pence on the Senate dais.

In several filings around the time of Chansley’s plea agreement, the Justice Department said that it was still working to process the “massive volume of data that may be relevant to many defendants” facing January 6 related charges."

So the "Justice" Department is still "processing" data that "may" be relevant to many defendants.

"Interesting." 

[Tom]

So you're comparing one specific, high-profile case -- and misrepresenting his crime, which was felony obstruction -- to a cherry-picked example of two lawyers explicitly given leniency who nevertheless lost their law licenses and still got a full year each for vandalism?

Are people really contending that the BLM rioters didn't get kid gloves treatment compared to the January 6thers?

Yeah, I'll absolutely contend that.

A lawyer representing one of five Proud Boys members on trial for seditious conspiracy asked a federal judge to throw out the case Thursday, saying that federal prosecutors hid “plainly exculpatory” US Capitol security footage played on Fox News host Tucker Carlson’s show.

Yes, that's one lawyer, who advised his client to plead guilty when he didn't realize there was video showing his client not exclusively attacking cops. Let's see how that pans out, shall we.

[rightleft22]

So to obfuscate the issue as to what you know happened on Jan 6 lets point to other happenings... as its obvious the handling of BLM matters is the same and well maybe even responsable for the causing the behavior of those evolved in Jan 6.
Not my fault, don't hold me responsible, BLM made me do it. Yeah that doesn't sound racist or anything.

[wmLambert]

So to obfuscate the issue as to what you know happened on Jan 6 lets point to other happenings... as its obvious the handling of BLM matters is the same and well maybe even responsable for the causing the behavior of those evolved in Jan 6.
Not my fault, don't hold me responsible, BLM made me do it. Yeah that doesn't sound racist or anything.

The issue isn't BLM vs. Trump - it is the difference in the actions of the DOJ. It is the actions of a disputed Committee which disallowed defense and cherry-picked videos and witnesses (often publicly refuted), and hid exculpatory evidence. It is the actions of a party (Dems) to foist political gamesmanship into legal proceedings. It is the actions of a MSM that refused to publicize denigarting evidence against Hunter and the Biden Crime family before an election.

[Tom]

That's actually a pretty good example of "I'm going to throw some nebulous complaints at the wall and see what sticks," William.

[msquared]

Chansley was not accompanied the whole time.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/fact-check-false-claim-jacob-150646104.html


He was asked to leave several times, but did not.

[rightleft22]

The issue isn't BLM vs. Trump - it is the difference in the actions of the DOJ.

Even if a case can be made for a differenced of actions of the DOJ it does not mean the case against Trump is unfounded and should not be pursued.
Your reasoning actually does put the issue as BLM vs Trump - you are saying  Trump is innocent or should not be prosecuted until and unless everyone one involved in BLM riots are prosecuted as you deem they should be prosecuted.  anything less as you demand it and the DOJ isn't doing its job so - Trump can do as he likes.

[cherrypoptart]

To put it another way, as a thought experiment, imagine if by some twist of fate the massive voter fraud was found and Trump retained the Presidency.

Would Trump's DOJ prosecute these people this way and would they be getting these long prison sentences and charges of sedition?

Not a chance.

So what does that mean?

It means that the same actions get different handling based on the politics of those in power and whether the criminals are on their side or not.

That's so obvious I wonder if it's even debatable. What kind of system of justice is that when it's political winds dependent?

[Tom]

It means that the same actions get different handling...

What are the same actions we're comparing, again? Your hypothetical involves Trump succeeding in a treasonous coup and then (theoretically, but plausibly) not prosecuting the mob who helped him seize power. I am certainly willing to grant that Trump consistently ignores the rule of law and traditions of good governance when it suits him, but I don't see how this is a "both sides" problem.

What kind of system of justice is that when it's political winds dependent?

I submit that if this was a problem you cared about, you would not have voted to put Republicans back in charge of the House.

[cherrypoptart]

This is just a theory, but the extent to which BLM rioters were or were not prosecuted and the harshness or leniency of their sentences probably depended a great deal on the political party of the people in charge of their cases.

It's common sense that this would happen at the local level because of course most crimes are covered by local laws, police, prosecutors and judges.

What's interesting though hardly surprising is that the same type of thing would happen at the federal level.

When the crimes have a political nature to them like the BLM and January 6th riots, how much of a crime it is and how much punishment it deserves depends less on the objective nature of the criminal act itself and more on which party it hurts or helps along with which party is in charge of prosecuting it.

This actually feels less like a theory and more like a statement of the obvious.

[cherrypoptart]

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/over-300-people-facing-federal-charges-crimes-committed-during-nationwide-demonstrations

Thursday, September 24, 2020

"To date, of the 94 U.S. Attorneys’ Offices (USAOs), more than 40 USAOs have filed federal charges alleging crimes ranging from attempted murder, assaulting a law enforcement officer, arson, burglary of a federally-licensed firearms dealer, damaging federal property, malicious destruction of property using fire or explosives, felon in possession of a firearm and ammunition, unlawful possession of a destructive device, inciting a riot, felony civil disorder, and others.  Violent opportunists have exploited these demonstrations in various ways."

So other than the high profile case of the Molotov lawyers we don't really see anything in the news about most of the rest of these. Maybe the convictions and sentences are out there but certainly they never made the news with the social media manhunt and the political posturing by the Democrats like January 6th.

It's not surprising of course. Our side good and the other side bad. The BLM riots were good and the January 6th riot was bad because... politics.

[TheDrake]

The capitol with lawmakers present in it is not some random empty regional courthouse. I don't even know why anybody would not see why one is more newsworthy than the other. Particularly the aftermath. Will there be a precedent set that other groups will be encouraged to just storm a legislative building? Are we going to see the supreme court invaded during oral arguments to end legal protection of gay marriage? Is our democracy going to survive?

There also are not dozens of high ranking Democrats out there calling for leniency on anyone proven to have committed crimes.Or trying to claim that the arsonists are not arsonists.

[msquared]

And we should take Tuckers Carlson opinion on what happened over people who were actually there?  Like the Senators and Congresspeople and the police?

Tucker, who has a proven history of lying just to get ratings?  Tucker, whose own employer has said he can not be trusted since he is not a journalist, just an entertainer?

[yossarian22c]

...

So other than the high profile case of the Molotov lawyers we don't really see anything in the news about most of the rest of these. Maybe the convictions and sentences are out there but certainly they never made the news with the social media manhunt and the political posturing by the Democrats like January 6th.
...

Do you know why there wasn't a social media manhunt for BLM protesters? BLM protests had mass arrests of people. So people who committed crimes didn't have to be tracked down later. The capital and DC police should have rounded up everyone who was in the capital arrested them and then decided who to charge with what. But instead they were all allowed to fly home and then had to be tracked down later.

[msquared]

Also I do not remember the BLM protesters showing their crimes on social media as much as the Jan 6 people did.  I mean many of the Jan 6 people thought they were doing the job Trump asked them to do, so they did not think they were doing anything wrong. They were just useful idiots who were being used by  the Proud Boys and Oath Keepers and  those types of groups  to be cannon fodder and a distraction to the police at the Capitol.

[NobleHunter]

It's one way to tell that Jan 6 wasn't done by Antifa. Antifa has way better operational security.

[rightleft22]

It's not surprising of course. Our side good and the other side bad. The BLM riots were good and the January 6th riot was bad because... politics.

it seems to me that your the one creating sides and excusing behavior you know is wrong, but well 'my side'....politics. Its hard to take you seriously when you can't spot the projection in your own arguments.
 
I find the equating or BLM protests with the Pro-trump election was stolen protests a false equivalents, troubling and a distraction to avoid knowing what is known.  (Being a Tucker worse then a Karen IMO)  As to Riots that sometimes follows protests, anyone who loots, sets fires or attacks others, regardless of the cause, should be held accountable. That holding those accountable is not always equitable is a problem (often the reason for the protests0 does not mean one can argue that one side or the other should not be held accountable.

Hold Trump and those that broke the law on his behalf accountable and I'll pay more attention to your arguments that BLM protesters arrested for rioting are not being prosecuted in equal measure. 

[msquared]

Well 4 more Oath Keepers found guilty of obstructing an official proceeding.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/jury-convicts-four-far-oath-174232813.html

[msquared]

Well at a recent rally Trump brought up a convicted Jan 6 rioter who thinks Pence and every Congressperson who did not try and over turn the election should be executed for Treason.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/jan-6-convict-embraces-trump-171936515.html