Author Topic: The Jan 6 Commission  (Read 75694 times)

yossarian22c

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Re: The Jan 6 Commission
« Reply #450 on: June 06, 2022, 04:18:36 PM »
...
Don't you love it when Chicago Democrats respond to having the strongest gun restrictions yet also has the highest incidents by claiming the guns are purchased in other states and brought in?
...

So they respond with facts about where the guns come from. How local gun laws doesn't affect gun traffic from Georgia or Indiana or Texas? Big cities have crime because of the drug trade. More people, more drugs, more money, more people willing to kill for it, more guns from out of state. There is nothing Chicago can do to stop straw purchasers in other states. But Republicans in congress hamstring the ATFs ability to go after straw purchasers. Not sure why this is a talking point you "love."

Tom

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Re: The Jan 6 Commission
« Reply #451 on: June 06, 2022, 04:32:34 PM »
William's truth claims in that post:
1) There is no other factor more influential in mass shootings than the presence of gun-free zones;
2) In recent years, Chicago had the strictest gun restrictions in the country;
3) Chicago Democrats asserted that the frequent shootings in Chicago were mainly committed by guns bought elsewhere and brought into Cook County as an explanation for why shootings were so common in Chicago;
4) This claim was false, and most shootings were performed by guns purchased within Chicago;
3) Both the Constitution and the Federalist Papers make it clear and obvious that the intent of the Second Amendment was for citizens to be matched evenly with professional soldiers, in the event that they needed to defend themselves from governments.

msquared

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Re: The Jan 6 Commission
« Reply #452 on: June 07, 2022, 08:47:27 AM »
Ok so now the Proud Boy's leaders have been charged with Seditious Conspiracy.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/proud-boys-leaders-accused-of-seditious-conspiracy-in-jan-6-attack-213651336.html

So now the leaders of both White Nationalist groups that Trump was a fan of have been charged. 3 of the Oath Keepers who were charged have already plead guilty.


msquared

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Re: The Jan 6 Commission
« Reply #453 on: June 08, 2022, 11:18:11 AM »
Let's not litigate since we are sure to lose.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/email-trump-lawyers-shows-plan-143039900.html

Lets just intimidate them.

msquared

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Re: The Jan 6 Commission
« Reply #454 on: June 09, 2022, 09:10:31 PM »
Well that was riveting.

Just a tourist group walking around.  Not violent at all. Just egged on by a bunch of deep cover AntiFa. Yeah blow that *censored* our of your ass.

Tom

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Re: The Jan 6 Commission
« Reply #455 on: June 09, 2022, 10:47:06 PM »
The most chilling bit to me -- besides the panic in some of the cops' voices as they fell back under the crowd -- was the mob's playground chanting of "Nancy! Hey, Nancy!" as they tromped through and around Pelosi's office, demanding that she be brought before them. Can anyone hearing that not imagine what they would have done to her had they actually been able to seize her?

msquared

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Re: The Jan 6 Commission
« Reply #456 on: June 10, 2022, 07:50:05 AM »
One of the other comments that stood out is the these government officials who would not support Trump's effort say they took an oath to the Constitution and not Trump. I think that is what upsets Trump the most.  He demanded personal loyalty to himself.  Like a dictator.

I think 95-98% of the people at the riot were useful idiots. 2-5% were groups like the Proud Boys and the Oathkeepers, who were trying to actually stop the counting of the ballots. They used the crowd that Trump and his cronies riled up at the rally and used them as ground troops.

I am just amazed at the restraint showed by the Capital Police.  How more people were not shot on that day is a wonder to me.

yossarian22c

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Re: The Jan 6 Commission
« Reply #457 on: June 10, 2022, 08:44:13 AM »
One of the other comments that stood out is the these government officials who would not support Trump's effort say they took an oath to the Constitution and not Trump. I think that is what upsets Trump the most.  He demanded personal loyalty to himself.  Like a dictator.

I think 95-98% of the people at the riot were useful idiots. 2-5% were groups like the Proud Boys and the Oathkeepers, who were trying to actually stop the counting of the ballots. They used the crowd that Trump and his cronies riled up at the rally and used them as ground troops.

I am just amazed at the restraint showed by the Capital Police.  How more people were not shot on that day is a wonder to me.

I just watched the video that the house committee but out. I'm also shocked more of the police didn't pull weapons and start firing into the crowd that was attacking them.

WM if you still think they're all innocent because of laches. Please watch and see how the windows and doors were initially breached. Hopefully they'll put out full videos of multiple angles for people like WM who are going to claim selective editing for seeing just seeing the rioters at some of their most violent moments. 

https://www.npr.org/2022/06/09/1104095062/capitol-police-officer-jan-6-recalls-chaos-carnage

wmLambert

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Re: The Jan 6 Commission
« Reply #458 on: June 10, 2022, 04:09:50 PM »
...I just watched the video that the house committee but out. I'm also shocked more of the police didn't pull weapons and start firing into the crowd that was attacking them.

WM if you still think they're all innocent because of laches. Please watch and see how the windows and doors were initially breached. Hopefully they'll put out full videos of multiple angles for people like WM who are going to claim selective editing for seeing just seeing the rioters at some of their most violent moments. 

https://www.npr.org/2022/06/09/1104095062/capitol-police-officer-jan-6-recalls-chaos-carnage

Nice try, but since there was no minority members nominated by GOP, there was no vetting of anything we saw and heard. They let an ABC Producer edit and mix sound over unrelated visuals, and allowed the Never-Trumper Rep. Liz Cheney to lie through her teeth, with no one to object or cross-examine anyone. Strangest insurrection ever, when the insurrectionists came with no weapons, and the only person killed was an unarmed woman who was not threatening the security officer who shot her. Never in 130 years was a committee made like this one. No matter what they cobble together, it will not be accepted. I especially noted how James Goldston put Trump's voice addressed to one group over a video and attributing the speech as being addressed to another group. It doesn't need to be psycho-analyzed to understand what the impetus for this propaganda was.

Did anyone hear one question about why Pelosi refused to testify about why she refused Trump's request to provide additional security when their were fears of inadequate security, while the security guards were at half-strength? She also refused to allow the Sargent-at-Arms to testify about his resigning because Pelosi refused his endorsement of the Trump request? Whether it was Antifa saboteurs leading the dangerous actions, or not, how will we ever know?

yossarian22c

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Re: The Jan 6 Commission
« Reply #459 on: June 10, 2022, 04:17:30 PM »
...I just watched the video that the house committee but out. I'm also shocked more of the police didn't pull weapons and start firing into the crowd that was attacking them.

WM if you still think they're all innocent because of laches. Please watch and see how the windows and doors were initially breached. Hopefully they'll put out full videos of multiple angles for people like WM who are going to claim selective editing for seeing just seeing the rioters at some of their most violent moments. 

https://www.npr.org/2022/06/09/1104095062/capitol-police-officer-jan-6-recalls-chaos-carnage

Nice try, but since there was no minority members nominated by GOP, there was no vetting of anything we saw and heard. They let an ABC Producer edit and mix sound over unrelated visuals, and allowed the Never-Trumper Rep. Liz Cheney to lie through her teeth, with no one to object or cross-examine anyone. Strangest insurrection ever, when the insurrectionists came with no weapons, and the only person killed was an unarmed woman who was not threatening the security officer who shot her. Never in 130 years was a committee made like this one. No matter what they cobble together, it will not be accepted.
...

Were police officers assaulted in that video?

Were windows broken to allow people to breach the capital?

What lies did Liz Cheney tell? Be specific please.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2022, 04:23:32 PM by yossarian22c »

Tom

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Re: The Jan 6 Commission
« Reply #460 on: June 10, 2022, 04:35:43 PM »
Truth claims made by William in the above post:
1) In order for what Congress distributes to be reliable, the GOP has to be involved in the selection of items to distribute.
2) Implicitly, the GOP was either not permitted to be involved or was not interested in ensuring the reliability of distributed information.
3) Implicitly, editing sound over unrelated visuals means you cannot trust what is shown.
4) Liz Cheney lied through her teeth. Specifics not provided.
5) Presentations cannot be trusted when they are made without room for cross-examination or objections.
6) The January 6th insurrectionists came without weapons.
7) Only one person was killed on January 6th.
8 ) The only person who was killed was not threatening.
9) There has never been a committee like this House Investigative Committee.
10) No matter what the committee releases, it will not be accepted (by persons unidentified; presumably includes William).
11) William found the ironic audio editing at the end of the video to be rhetorically effective, but felt it distorted Trump's meaning.
12) It is unnecessary to psycho-analyze something (target unknown) to know why this presentation was released.

wmLambert

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Re: The Jan 6 Commission
« Reply #461 on: June 10, 2022, 05:30:16 PM »
Tom, check out Jason Miller's charge against Liz Cheney of editing his testimony and getting the wrong understanding of what he said: https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2022/06/09/jjason-miller-says-liz-cheney-deceptively-edited-his-testimony-for-january-6-primetime-hearing/t

Like I said. You can't, or shouldn't, believe anything coming out of that committee.

wmLambert

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Re: The Jan 6 Commission
« Reply #462 on: June 10, 2022, 05:47:33 PM »
...Were police officers assaulted in that video?

Were windows broken to allow people to breach the capital?

What lies did Liz Cheney tell? Be specific please.

I don't know about the police. I know there were not enough of them to hold back even a small group of people. Can you tell me how many BLM imposters were in the crowd and if they started any dust ups? Did the BLM imposters break the windows? How do we know? We have the videos and cell phone links to the Mules in the 2,000 Mules documentary, so that is confirmed. Who is guilty of crimes can be guessed at, but that's it.

BTW, that one security woman who said she was hurt said she tripped while trying to impossibly hold back the crowd. That one officer who Pelosy originally said was killed by being hit by a fire extinguisher was another lie. His own family said that was untrue. You can't take anything shown last night as real. We already know the dited things deceptively.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2022, 05:52:52 PM by wmLambert »

Tom

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Re: The Jan 6 Commission
« Reply #463 on: June 10, 2022, 06:34:54 PM »
William, you've mentioned 2000 Mules a few times, and I would urge you to look at their methodology before trying to say that anything has been "confirmed." I don't want to have to follow up every post you make with a list of truth claims, so it would help me enormously if you'd try to keep the number of assertions relatively small; being familiar with the actual facts will assist in that.

Wayward Son

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Re: The Jan 6 Commission
« Reply #464 on: June 10, 2022, 06:49:58 PM »
Quote
Can you tell me how many BLM imposters were in the crowd and if they started any dust ups?

No one knows how many BLM imposters were in the crowd, if any.  All we know is that it was an insignificant number, since the vast majority of those identified in breaking into the Capitol have been identified as Trump supports and NOT BLM or any such nonsense.

 
Quote
Did the BLM imposters break the windows? How do we know?

No, BLM imposters did not break the windows, because we have photographic evidence of who did and we have identified them, and they were not BLM supports or any such nonsense.  They were Trump supporters.

Why do you not know this?

wmLambert

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Re: The Jan 6 Commission
« Reply #465 on: June 10, 2022, 08:17:29 PM »
William, you've mentioned 2000 Mules a few times, and I would urge you to look at their methodology before trying to say that anything has been "confirmed." I don't want to have to follow up every post you make with a list of truth claims, so it would help me enormously if you'd try to keep the number of assertions relatively small; being familiar with the actual facts will assist in that.

I would urge you to see the documentary, because the verification was presented into in detail. And, as I already stated, some of the Mules have been caught and plead guilty, which led the police to Democrat suppliers of bogus ballots, who also have plead guilty. The vote-scamming has been proved. The only thing left is to connect the dots as to all the Democrats nationwide who were together in this. We know from the key states investigated all these Mules were acting in concert.

It's funny. You argue about the Mules not being proved guilty - but accept anything the compromised Committee says without proof.

The ends justify the means.

wmLambert

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Re: The Jan 6 Commission
« Reply #466 on: June 10, 2022, 08:22:03 PM »
BTW, if you were held in prison for six months, without even getting a hearing, you might plead guilty just to get out.

One question, while speaking about fairness... Was Rahm Emanuel put in leg-irons and shackles when he was arrested at the airport for not responding to a subpoena? Oh, that's right... He skated, didn't he?

Tom

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Re: The Jan 6 Commission
« Reply #467 on: June 10, 2022, 08:28:43 PM »
Quote
I would urge you to see the documentary, because the verification was presented into in detail.
Yes, I'm familiar with the method they claim to have used, and also familiar with why it's completely insufficient to draw the conclusions they're drawing.

wmLambert

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Re: The Jan 6 Commission
« Reply #468 on: June 10, 2022, 08:48:55 PM »
Quote
I would urge you to see the documentary, because the verification was presented into in detail.
Yes, I'm familiar with the method they claim to have used, and also familiar with why it's completely insufficient to draw the conclusions they're drawing.

I beg to differ. The means they used were sufficient to identify Mules and have them arrested and then plead guilty. It was sufficient to find fingerprints on bogus ballots, which then caused all these MUles to start distributing ballots with blue gloves on. The 2,000 Mules were the ones easily confirmed. The number the 2,000 Mules investigators research shows as scamming in its entirety is small compared to the total. Go to any of the free streams of 2000 Mules and follow the science. We now have indisputable confirmation that in 4 vote-scammed states, there were more than enough illegal scammed ballots to more than offset Biden's stolen election. 207K ballots illegally put in drop-boxes by mules in AZ which Trump only lost by 10,457 votes. 83K in WI to offset 20,682, 200K in PA to offset 80,555 votes, and 226K in MI to offset 154,188.

Far more than 2,000 scammers were involved. the 2,000 concentrated upon were just the easiest ones to prove.

Tom

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Re: The Jan 6 Commission
« Reply #469 on: June 10, 2022, 08:52:51 PM »
*sigh* No. Again, I beg you, please do some actual research into this.


yossarian22c

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Re: The Jan 6 Commission
« Reply #470 on: June 10, 2022, 09:24:09 PM »


I beg to differ. The means they used were sufficient to identify Mules and have them arrested and then plead guilty. …
Far more than 2,000 scammers were involved. the 2,000 concentrated upon were just the easiest ones to prove.

Please can you name one person who pled guilty as a result of 2000 mules? What did they pled guilty too? Where did they plead guilty?

Your failure to answer those questions repeatedly makes me think you don’t know who, what, when, or where but are taking it on faith that it happened from someone you trust.

yossarian22c

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Re: The Jan 6 Commission
« Reply #471 on: June 13, 2022, 08:27:19 AM »
... I don't want to have to follow up every post you make with a list of truth claims, ...

You don't need to. We all know WM lives in his right wing bubble. I typically engage with him by asking simple questions about his claims. I know I can't convince him of anything. But I do hope that I can ask questions that may make him question some of the people he trusts. Just like the claim about "mules" being arrested. I just want him to give me a name, crime, and location for who has pled guilty. I know I can't convince him of anything but maybe not being able to answer simple questions about his claims will make him question who he's been trusting on faith. Its unlikely to change his opinions or who he trusts but I think this forum is probably one of the last places he even sees any information or questions that aren't part of the far right. So I hope he stays and is at least exposed to information and questions that don't come from far right grifters.

msquared

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Re: The Jan 6 Commission
« Reply #472 on: June 13, 2022, 12:28:51 PM »
What came out this morning in the hearings.

Trump did not like the results. So he insisted it was stolen. Even though all of the professional lawyers said no.

Mynnion

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Re: The Jan 6 Commission
« Reply #473 on: June 13, 2022, 01:37:02 PM »
Quote
What came out this morning in the hearings.

Trump did not like the results. So he insisted it was stolen. Even though all of the professional lawyers said no.

No surprise there.  He insisted that before the election :)


NobleHunter

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Re: The Jan 6 Commission
« Reply #474 on: June 13, 2022, 01:41:51 PM »
What I want to know is how so many Never-Trumpers infiltrated the very highest levels of the administration.

Mynnion

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Re: The Jan 6 Commission
« Reply #475 on: June 13, 2022, 01:48:27 PM »
What really amazes me that the Stable Genius Business tycoon didn't seem to be able to hire anyone who was not a Never Trumper.  It would almost make you question his ability.......Naw......

msquared

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Re: The Jan 6 Commission
« Reply #476 on: June 13, 2022, 02:03:14 PM »
It seems like they became Never Trumpers when they disagreed with him. Imagine that. Trump demanding personal loyalty over anything else.

yossarian22c

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Re: The Jan 6 Commission
« Reply #477 on: June 14, 2022, 09:14:12 AM »
An excerpt of Bill Barr's sworn testimony. For WM because I know it won't get airtime on Fox or OAN or infowars.

First quote on election fraud in general.

Quote
And I told him that the stuff that his people were shoveling out to the public were bull — was b*******. I mean that the claims of fraud were b******* And, you know, he was indignant about that. And I reiterated that they've wasted a whole month on these claims — on the Dominion voting machines and they were idiotic claims.

Clipped a bit until he started talking about 2,000 mules.

Quote
Well, I mean, just in a nutshell, you know, I just think that the GBI was unimpressed with it and I was similarly unimpressed with it because I think if you — because I was holding my fire on that to see what the photographic evidence was because I thought, well, hell, if they have a lot of photographs of the same person dumping a lot of ballots in different boxes, you know, that's hard to explain.

So I wanted to see what the photographic evidence was, but the cell phone data is singularly unimpressive. I mean it basically, if you take 2 million cell phones and — and figure out where they are physically in a big city like Atlanta or wherever, just by definition you're going to find many hundreds of them have passed by and spent time in the vicinity of these boxes.
...
So I — but then when the movie came out, you know, I think the photographic evidence and it was completely black — I mean it was — there was a little bit of it, but it was lacking.

https://www.npr.org/2022/06/13/1104690690/heres-every-word-of-the-second-jan-6-committee-hearing-on-its-investigation

Tom

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Re: The Jan 6 Commission
« Reply #478 on: June 14, 2022, 09:32:47 AM »
D'Souza's complete emotional meltdown on Twitter in response to Barr's criticism, BTW, was hysterical. :)

TheDrake

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Re: The Jan 6 Commission
« Reply #479 on: June 14, 2022, 09:35:19 AM »
Let's not forget that Barr was the upgrade on Sessions who was a sycophant in his own right. Barr defended Trump at every turn, and did his questionable bidding in matters relating to Roger Stone, Mueller, covid, and immigration. That's the same guy.

TheDrake

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Re: The Jan 6 Commission
« Reply #480 on: June 14, 2022, 09:41:56 AM »
Thanks for that laugh, Tom. His twitter feed is gold. My favorite part is that he is retweeting his own posts, probably in an attempt to drown out the people laughing at him.

Wayward Son

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Re: The Jan 6 Commission
« Reply #481 on: June 14, 2022, 07:26:52 PM »
This is fun.  Liz Cheney released a video, outlining yesterday's hearing, previewing Thursday's hearing, and ending with a clip of one of Trump's attorney's suggesting to another one on January 7 to "Get a great f'ing criminal defense lawyer. You're going to need it."

rightleft22

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Re: The Jan 6 Commission
« Reply #482 on: June 15, 2022, 10:26:05 AM »
This is fun.  Liz Cheney released a video, outlining yesterday's hearing, previewing Thursday's hearing, and ending with a clip of one of Trump's attorney's suggesting to another one on January 7 to "Get a great f'ing criminal defense lawyer. You're going to need it."

Its... something
Unfortunate a large segment of the population doesn't care or something phycological is going on making it impossible for many to view what a happened with any kind of perspective.

TheDrake

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Re: The Jan 6 Commission
« Reply #483 on: June 15, 2022, 12:40:09 PM »
This is fun.  Liz Cheney released a video, outlining yesterday's hearing, previewing Thursday's hearing, and ending with a clip of one of Trump's attorney's suggesting to another one on January 7 to "Get a great f'ing criminal defense lawyer. You're going to need it."

Its... something
Unfortunate a large segment of the population doesn't care or something phycological is going on making it impossible for many to view what a happened with any kind of perspective.

Algae is getting in their eyes?

msquared

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Re: The Jan 6 Commission
« Reply #484 on: June 16, 2022, 02:30:52 PM »
Trump's trying to get Pence to overturn the election is getting put to rest. Completely bogus reasoning but still pushed by Trump even when told time and time again it was not legal.

wmLambert

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Re: The Jan 6 Commission
« Reply #485 on: June 16, 2022, 06:01:14 PM »
D'Souza's complete emotional meltdown on Twitter in response to Barr's criticism, BTW, was hysterical. :)

I guess you didn't read those tweets. Or maybe you didn't understand.

Tom

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Re: The Jan 6 Commission
« Reply #486 on: June 16, 2022, 06:48:19 PM »
What makes me saddest about all this, William, is that as you continue to be proven wrong again and again, you will conclude that it is because the world is increasingly blinded by corruption. It makes it impossible to reach you, and I think that's sincerely tragic.

wmLambert

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Re: The Jan 6 Commission
« Reply #487 on: June 16, 2022, 07:58:24 PM »
What makes me saddest about all this, William, is that as you continue to be proven wrong again and again, you will conclude that it is because the world is increasingly blinded by corruption. It makes it impossible to reach you, and I think that's sincerely tragic.

On the contrary. Unlike you, I actually looked at the D'Souza podcast where he consigned Barr to a non-important position. (https://rumble.com/v18ong0-making-history-dinesh-dsouza-podcast-ep352.html) He commented on Barr's descriptions of 2,000 Mules in such a way it was obvious Barr never saw it and only took others' straw-man depiction of what they thought it was. He didn't diss Barr, he just saw there was no there, there. Certainly nothing any honest person would deem as "hilarious." Barr entirely missed that the videos from the official ballot box cameras showed the same people putting in multiple ballots in many different precincts and taking photos of each ballot before putting it in - obviously to document their vote-scamming for payment. Those who plead guilty each had a price per ballot. the celphone tracking were used to verify that the person on camera was actually the same individual who showed up on different cameras. It actually showed the same people suddenly wearing blue gloves, at the same time. Many different people in different places - but all suddenly wearing blue gloves.

BTW, As the old posts have proven me correct over and over again, the only ones who say I am wrong have somehow missed the new info.

So let me get this straight. I provide info which is correct. A Dem apologist here says it is not credible, but never apologizes when later credible info that supports me is admitted to by their Democrat mentors. They just move along - nothing to see here!

Tom

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Re: The Jan 6 Commission
« Reply #488 on: June 16, 2022, 08:04:39 PM »
I assure you, William, I am an honest person. So given that, let's try again to figure out why I -- and, frankly, many other people -- thought it was hilarious.

wmLambert

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Re: The Jan 6 Commission
« Reply #489 on: June 16, 2022, 09:11:40 PM »
I assure you, William, I am an honest person. So given that, let's try again to figure out why I -- and, frankly, many other people -- thought it was hilarious.

Go ahead. Please explain what was hilarious with the tweet. But please remember that disinformation is not humorous. Many people may believe Barr did something wrong that was right or looked right but was wrong. I did study his responses as edited by Ex-ABC News exec James Goldston. It was obvious to me that Barr was only marginally cognizant of the documentary. Had he seen it, he would not have said what he did. D'Souza picked up on that also, comparing him to the fat bullies at his school who behaved as they did because they couldn't run or fight. You think Barr was a hero for making conclusions about things he had not seen?

What I found hilarious is that Barr was a pariah who was castigated by his new friends in 2019 and 2020 - but now is considered a paragon of virtue. Trump's 12-page paper responded to the committee: https://thehill.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2022/06/Statement-by-Trump-1.pdf. Is there anything there that is not completely accurate?

Tom

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Re: The Jan 6 Commission
« Reply #490 on: June 16, 2022, 09:29:54 PM »
I'm actually asking you to figure out what was hilarious about D'Souza's desperate flurry of tweets. I think you're largely impervious to being told anything.

Also: Trump's "paper" is absolutely revolting. Nothing in it is "completely accurate." It's pure demagoguery.
But here's the thing: I can understand why it seems like it contains facts. Leaving aside the unsubtle rhetorical digs and flourishes, truth claims are made in there; for example, the paper claims that cellphone location data was used in 45 cases against January 6th protesters, which is true. But it then attempts to draw a comparison between using location data to prove that someone was within 100' of the Capitol at a specific time of day (which is how that data was used) and proving that someone returned to the same dropbox dozens of times. This is, the paper claims, the "exact same" sort of evidence. But every single expert who works with location data will tell you that cellphone data of this sort cannot be used to make that kind of claim. (As an example: the two dropboxes in my town are at the Town Hall and the library, both of which I visit almost daily. My cellphone would indicate that I walk within 30' of those dropboxes twice a day, easily.) They speak of "video surveillance showing mules drop loads of ballots," but we know that in the five cases that were actually followed up on, in every case the multiple ballots were in fact legal ballots collected from the "mule's" family. They speak of video showing people returning to dropboxes multiple times, but in fact have never produced such video. Heck, that single woman in Arizona who pled guilty to participating in a handful of cases of voter fraud is here being depicted as a participant in a "ballot-trafficking scheme," as if she's just the tip of an iceberg that remains otherwise stubbornly invisible.

The "math" section is even more ridiculous, not least because if those numbers were even remotely accurate, you'd've expected the Democrats to pick up a few more Congressional seats

msquared

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Re: The Jan 6 Commission
« Reply #491 on: June 17, 2022, 08:44:11 AM »
Well we know Trump lied about Pence agreeing he could just over rule the election on Jan 6. Trump tweeted that he and Pence agreed that Pence had the authority, but Pence never agreed he had that authority. Ever.

Trump lied about Pence's position. Setting Pence up as his fall guy. And Trump's supporters took him to heart. "Hang Mike Pence". That sure seems like a direct result of Trump blaming Pence for not doing something almost all legal scholars said Pence was not allowed to do.

Please tell me how this was not a lie and a dangerous one at that.

TheDrake

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Re: The Jan 6 Commission
« Reply #492 on: June 17, 2022, 10:29:41 AM »
What's hilarious about D'Souzas tweets? How about one item in particular, that he goes on and on about how fat Barr is. Claiming how Barr has no credibility or skill when years worth of Barr support tweets suggest that opinion was only formed once Barr ridiculed his work.

yossarian22c

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Re: The Jan 6 Commission
« Reply #493 on: June 17, 2022, 11:49:46 AM »
...
What I found hilarious is that Barr was a pariah who was castigated by his new friends in 2019 and 2020 - but now is considered a paragon of virtue. Trump's 12-page paper responded to the committee: https://thehill.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2022/06/Statement-by-Trump-1.pdf. Is there anything there that is not completely accurate?

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Since the Unselect Committee refuses to allow their political opponents to participate in the hearings, the public likely won’t hear from the many patriots who contradict the lies being broadcast – at least not in these hearings. This is all a ridiculous and treasonous attempt to cover up the fact that Democrats rigged the Election and are siphoning Americans’ freedoms and power for their own benefit.

So Bill Barr, Liz Cheney, Trump's family, and Mike Pence's legal team are now all Democrats? Most of the people testifying worked for Trump. John Eastman's testimony was just claiming the 5th. Mark Meadows and others have refused to testify. Why? They can't articulate their story if they don't have a friendly questioner?

Also Trump had $250+ million in donors money to contest the election. Seems like he should be able to prove some of the fraud. Or put out more than a rambling statement that appeals to emotion.

Trump's statement avoids statements of facts or at least facts in context. It's the typical Trump statement that appeals to emotion, is misleading with what facts he provides, and makes hyperbolic claims that are non-factual. The whole thing is a steaming pile of demagoguery crap but I know it hits all your confirmation biases and smells like a bed of roses to you.

yossarian22c

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Re: The Jan 6 Commission
« Reply #494 on: June 17, 2022, 11:54:07 AM »
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Some areas are reported to have had more votes than voters! That raises some questions.

Highlight from Trump's statement that is very misleading but maybe not a lie. Some areas were reported to have had more votes than voters. But all those stories have been shown to be false. Which is why its stated that way, it was reported. It did raise questions. They were answered and shown to be absolutely untrue. That's why Trump didn't say, x precinct in y county had more votes than voters. Because there was no place where this happened.

msquared

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Re: The Jan 6 Commission
« Reply #495 on: June 17, 2022, 12:10:26 PM »
Any one who does not agree with Trump is a RINO and part of the deep state.
Trump is now like the flat earthers and young earth people. No amount of proof will change his mind since his whole sense of self is now based on the election being stolen from him, not him losing.  If he lost, then it was his fault. If it was stolen, it was not his fault. He has to maintain this to have any chance in any lawsuits.

yossarian22c

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Re: The Jan 6 Commission
« Reply #496 on: June 17, 2022, 12:17:16 PM »
Any one who does not agree with Trump is a RINO and part of the deep state.
Trump is now like the flat earthers and young earth people. No amount of proof will change his mind since his whole sense of self is now based on the election being stolen from him, not him losing.  If he lost, then it was his fault. If it was stolen, it was not his fault. He has to maintain this to have any chance in any lawsuits.

Screw every senate Republican who voted to acquit him. He's a cancer on our society and banning him from the ballot would have at least removed him from that part of public life. Now we may have to put up with him running again. After an election cycle where its clear his endorsement is only contingent on people kissing his ass and spreading his lies. What happens when calls the next secretary of state of Florida asking for 10,000 votes?

TheDrake

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Re: The Jan 6 Commission
« Reply #497 on: June 17, 2022, 06:45:28 PM »
Great, you made me read some of the statement. It was worse than my wildest nightmares.

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Why would it take four more days to count a few hundred thousand votes when they had counted millions in one day? They needed time to traffic the ballots and manipulate the outcome of the Election. The Swamp was so determined to keep their stranglehold on power that they delayed the results of the Election so that they could find, manufacture, or produce more ballots, after they knew how many they needed to beat me.

Obviously, mail in ballots take longer than the millions they counted from in-person voting. Does he even know how ballots work? It's not like you can just run off ballots at kinko's. It is completely detached from reality.

wmLambert

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Re: The Jan 6 Commission
« Reply #498 on: June 17, 2022, 08:29:31 PM »
...Obviously, mail in ballots take longer than the millions they counted from in-person voting. Does he even know how ballots work? It's not like you can just run off ballots at kinko's. It is completely detached from reality.

No. Many states count the mail-in ballots before election day, and as they come in, so they can be counted quickly. Some refuse to do so.

As for Trump stating things that are not verified - many of those are things you missed getting the info on. Many statisticians and professional number crunchers advised Trump early on how things should work - and also what the legal state election codes limited when votes can be counted. Some states stated that if the ballots were not officially delivered by particular deadlines, they could not be counted. Does every law the Dems don't like get to be ignored?

Saying that Trump's 12-page document is very misleading is, itself, misleading. Here's a pull-quote from Trump's 12-page document about the Sham Investigation:
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...Our Constitution protects the right to confront accusers, honors the right to fair trials, and
holds the right to legal representation as paramount in our justice system. Equal representation
and the opportunity to offer rebuttal evidence is fundamental in our legal process. The
Committee has obliterated those rights and is making a mockery of justice. They have refused to
allow their political opponents to participate in this process, and have excluded all exculpatory
witnesses, and anyone who so easily points out the flaws in their story.
MAGA witnesses were interrogated behind closed doors and ordered to not record their
own testimony. Members of my staff, my friends, supporters, volunteers, donors, were subjected
to hours upon hours of inquisition – oftentimes having nothing to do with January 6th. Their very
lives were turned upside down for obvious reasons. They were told it was an ongoing
investigation and any reproduction of the interrogation would be viewed as an attempt to
interfere in the investigation. They were gagged, threatened, and in some cases ruined.
Yet, the Unselect Pseudo-Committee has coordinated with their media puppets to
broadcast their witnesses on national television without any opposition, cross-examination, or
rebuttal evidence. The American public has a right to know the truth and see every witness, but
these corrupt officials are trying to force-feed the public with their politically opportune
sideshow.[/quote

What is misleading? Like most of Trump's communications, there is little legalese to hide behind. His statements are clear and accurate and easy to understand. As I pointed out, Rahm Emmanuel refused to honor a Committee's subpoena (a real committee) but this Committee puts leg-irons on Peter Navarro. There is no mitigating actions here. How many uncomplicated transgressions need to be pointed out to you for you to understand?

msquared

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Re: The Jan 6 Commission
« Reply #499 on: June 17, 2022, 08:35:00 PM »
The fact that this is not a trial might have something to do with it. Trump will not be prosecuted by the Commission.  It is an investigation.  It might lead to charges by the DOJ and go to trial where Trump can put up his defense.

This is more of a Grand Jury, where the subject getting investigated gets no say.