The Jan 6 Commission

[yossarian22c]

What if Trump was not in "The Beast" when the event occurred? Does that change anything as being possible then?
...

They shouldn't have had her testify to this second hand story unless they had the secret service agent willing to testify to it after. Because it doesn't really matter if he reached for the steering wheel or just screamed at his secret service agents about going to the capital. We know Trump wanted to go, we know he felt a lot of love for the crowd chanting to hang Mike Pence. Now the right has their "OMG" he might not have actually grabbed the steering wheel, the entire committee is a lie argument.

[Seriati]

Seriati, I'm curious: which if any of the Benghazi investigative committees do you believe were primarily propaganda?

You mean the report into the bold faced lie that Obama made about what happened, and that the media did its best to cover up?  Funny, I read the report of the Republican led committee that actually looked at the decisions that were made, and as I recall it expressly supported the President's actual decisions that were made about what actions to take.  Imagine that, a Republican led committee that didn't take an opportunity to lie about what happened.

But why did you bring it up?  Just to pretend "we all do it," even if that's just a lie in and of itself?  If this committee had been run like the Benghazi ones I really wouldn't have had much to complain about now would I?

I’m curious if you think every police and grand jury investigation is propaganda because the defense and the accused aren’t part of the police investigation and questioning of witnesses?

Interesting that you conflate the executive branch's enforcement of law and investigation of violations (which are part of its constitutional responsibility) with this show trial conducted by the legislative branch.  In order for the police to investigate they have to have evidence of a crime and a reasonable articulable basis to believe a person committed it, in order for them to subpeona records and witnesses they have to have probable cause and to be able articulate what they are looking for.

Congress?  They are not legally authorized to investigate crime, ergo, when they subpeona records they can't establish probable cause.  When they subpeona records to "investigate" crime they are ignoring the fourth amendment, not just the fifth.  Everything about their efforts is designed to side step the Constitutional protections against unreasonable searches.  Or put another way, as they interpret it, the branch legally required and entitled to investigate a crime must show probable cause, but the branch that is prohibited from doing so can investigate a crime without showing anything other than a nebulous possibility that they could use the records to make some kind of law in the field.  This is completely a judge made problem, as the SC established a subpoena power for Congress (not found in the Constitution) and then didn't incorporate the Bill of Rights that applies to the entire US government.

No one was denied due process, courts reviewed subpoenas, people were allowed to plead the 5th.

Congress is not legally entitled to your testimony or records for a fishing expedition, only to the extent the information is necessary for the passage of a relevant law.  There's not even a colorable claim that the extent of their investigation is plausibly material to proposed legislation. 

Congress has also taken the express position that if they subpeona your private files, they can then leak them publicly or privately or use them for any purpose they want and that they and their entire staff are immune from any consequence for how they treat those records based on the speech clause.  No court can order them or enjoin them from abusing the privacy of the records they possess.  Effectively, they claim the unreviewable authority to misuse those records.

Just because Trump’s coconspirators weren’t in on the investigation it’s propaganda?

It's propaganda because the people pushing it had a narrative to push and no desire to do an honest investigation.  The exclusion of contrary voices is just evidence - because so excluding is inconsistent with a legitimate investigation and completely inline with a propaganda operation.

I think it might be intimidating to testify to Jim Jordan’s crimes if he’s the investigator.

So what?  You don't think it's intimidating to be an innocent person forced to testify under oath to your political opponents whose goal is to entrap you?  Who you know will comb through hours of testimony, most of which was unreasonably and therefore illegally obtained, with the goal of pulling snippets out of context to make you look guilty or to undermine your deeply held political beliefs?  The point of justice is to try and be neutral and apply the law, the point of this committee is to destroy political opposition.

I would suspect that Jim Jordan's participation would have been welcomed by the vast majority of the witnesses, as it would have allowed them to clarify the false narrative been structured.

Republicans rejected the concept of a full bipartisan commission.

Because the proposed structure was still a propaganda effort with a window dressing.

You already know the proper and legal way to investigate this was through the Justice department, yet you keep trying to "set up" the argument that Congress had no other choice.  They had lots of choices, and very little of what they spent time on is actually useful to any plausible legislation that would prevent this in the future. 

Unless you think that investigating how your political opponents communicate and grabbing their records could lead to a valid relevant law?

And I see no signs that the two Republicans have been muffled or relegated to insignificant roles.

So what?  This theme keeps repeating.  We each pick our political party, what we pick and what we stand for are not always the same thing.  Liz Cheney is doing here level best to destroy the party she claims to be part of.  Her self-labelling as a Republican is useful for the propaganda effort but has no real meaning when she doesn't represent any actual Republican interests.

[msquared]

She is one of the most conservative members of Congress. The only issue on which is is not "Republican" is Trump.  That is the issue.

Any Republican who does not support Trump and his lies is now called a RINO. That is the only definition the Trump allows.

Of course if the Justice Dept was doing the investigation, Serati and others would be calling it a political witchhunt by the Biden admin. So there is no legitimate way to investigate Trump?

Or do we expect the Trump admin to investigate itself? With Trump demanding personal loyalty from everyone?  Why not have Congress investigate and then  have the Justice Dept prosecute when it is another branch of Gov.?

[yossarian22c]

...

And I see no signs that the two Republicans have been muffled or relegated to insignificant roles.

So what?  This theme keeps repeating.  We each pick our political party, what we pick and what we stand for are not always the same thing.  Liz Cheney is doing here level best to destroy the party she claims to be part of.  Her self-labelling as a Republican is useful for the propaganda effort but has no real meaning when she doesn't represent any actual Republican interests.

Liz Cheney is doing her level best to destroy Trump and Trumpism and save the f-ing Republican party. Before she crossed Trump she was in the house leadership and her Republican credentials are solid, she just isn't personal loyalty to Trump. So calling her a "self-labeled" Republican like she just switched parties for the street cred as part of this investigation is disingenuous on your part.

[msquared]

I mean that is something I don't get. WmLambert and others keep calling me a Never Trumper so  my opinion does not matter. But aren't they Never Biden/Obama/Clinton's?  Why should I believe anything they say about those 3 then?

Who should be investigating what happened on Jan 6?  Who do you think is neutral enough for you?  Would you have Jim Jordan and Ted Cruz head it up? Do you really think they would give an honest review to what happened?

Many of those called Never Trumpers today were Trumpers in the early days. And then they saw how Trump behaved and did not like what they saw. Why does that make them RINO's? Because that is what is being claimed by Trump and his supporters.

[Tom]

You mean the report into the bold faced lie that Obama made about what happened, and that the media did its best to cover up?

There were multiple Benghazi investigations. That's why I asked which one(s) you considered legitimate.

But why did you bring it up?  Just to pretend "we all do it," even if that's just a lie in and of itself?

Because I suspect you of abject, partisan hypocrisy.

[yossarian22c]

...
You mean the report into the bold faced lie that Obama made about what happened, and that the media did its best to cover up?  Funny, I read the report of the Republican led committee that actually looked at the decisions that were made, and as I recall it expressly supported the President's actual decisions that were made about what actions to take.  Imagine that, a Republican led committee that didn't take an opportunity to lie about what happened.
...

Why did the committee have authority to investigate? What legislative reason did they have to spend 3+ years on the investigation and subpoena all of Clinton's records? Whatever the legislative purpose its a lot more vague than we want to understand all the ways Trump tried to subvert democracy so we can write better legislation than the electoral count act.

[TheDrake]

I wonder if seriati is also upset that Nazis were unrepresented in the Nuremberg tribunals. I mean there was nobody to ask about the shady Jews.

[msquared]

Well Cipollone is going to testify before the committee.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/ap-source-cipollone-agrees-testify-150152241.html


Let the daggers come out for this Never Trumper that Toddler Trump barely knew. 

[Lloyd Perna]

I wonder if seriati is also upset that Nazis were unrepresented in the Nuremberg tribunals. I mean there was nobody to ask about the shady Jews.

So you agree that these Jan 6 hearings are a trial.   At least the Nazi's tried at Nuremburg were allowed counsel, to present evidence in their defense and cross-examine witnesses.

[TheDrake]

I wonder if seriati is also upset that Nazis were unrepresented in the Nuremberg tribunals. I mean there was nobody to ask about the shady Jews.

So you agree that these Jan 6 hearings are a trial.   At least the Nazi's tried at Nuremburg were allowed counsel, to present evidence in their defense and cross-examine witnesses.

That does not logically follow, that I agree that these hearings are a trial. Merely they are both proceedings of a different nature in which it would make no sense for co-conspirators to be able to ask questions. Here's how you can tell the difference, the result of a trial can result in a person's loss of various freedoms or loss of property. These hearings cannot submit immediate consequences. As has been pointed out numerous times, it is far more analogous to a grand jury - with the notable difference that the proceedings are public.

[msquared]

To be fair, a grand jury can issue indictments in many locations. So you are actually at more risk from a grand jury than Toddler Trump is from this commission.

[TheDrake]

To be fair, a grand jury can issue indictments in many locations. So you are actually at more risk from a grand jury than Toddler Trump is from this commission.

Good point. This commission can recommend that Justice pursue charges, which would be through a grand jury, and at which the defendants would also not be represented, and at which evidence could not be challenged by the defendant.

[msquared]

Another Trumper turns on Toddler Trump.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-knows-rigged-election-claim-223154754.html

[msquared]

Comey and McCabe were subject to the most intense tax audit in the system.

Just coincidence or abuse of power by Trump?

https://www.yahoo.com/news/comey-mccabe-two-trump-foes-114525783.html

[yossarian22c]

Comey and McCabe were subject to the most intense tax audit in the system.

Just coincidence or abuse of power by Trump?

https://www.yahoo.com/news/comey-mccabe-two-trump-foes-114525783.html

I wonder if former FBI director got added into the selection criteria for "random" audits.

[TheDrake]

They are criminally overstating the odds in this article, it seems to me. All the people filling ez or a would not be in the pool selected for audit. Next, even with the odds set as stated, doesn't trump have enough enemies that he would have to hit one per year?

[msquared]

TheDrake

The audit they are talking about is not the normal audit.  My degree is in Accounting and I took both Corp Tax and Personal Tax classes.

There is a Personal Tax Audit that at the time was called the Taxpay Compliance Measure Audit and in the words of my Professor if you get one of these "You have offended God in someway, since even God could not pass one of these audits".

in these audits they go through everything. 

[TheDrake]

I know all about that, even from the article. I'm not an accountant, but I do have an MBA though the tax stuff wasn't really in the cards for us. I'm talking about this:

WASHINGTON — Among tax lawyers, the most invasive type of random audit carried out by the IRS is known, only partly jokingly, as “an autopsy without the benefit of death.”

The odds of being selected for that audit in any given year are tiny — out of nearly 153 million individual returns filed for 2017, for example, the IRS targeted about 5,000, or roughly 1 out of 30,600.

That's just silly. Random doesn't mean no constraints. The guy at walmart who submitted his ez form over the phone isn't eligible for the super-audit lottery. I'm sure there are other factors used to try and select the ones most likely to show problems with itemization in particular. Only 13 million returns itemized deductions that year. so we can adjust those odds down dramatically. about 1 out of 2600.

Filing season

Now, if Trump only had two or three enemies in the US, it might stretch credibility to find one selected. But between the FBI, Half of congress, RINOs, former staffers, gropees, city councils, obama administration figures, and television personalities, it would only be surprising if none of them DID wind up on the list.

Then you've got to ask if he (or a proxy acting on their own) manipulate who gets hit, would these really be the two he would pick out of his extensive enemies list? It's not Mueller? Or Barr? Or Cohen? Or anybody at CNN? Not a Clinton?

There isn't a shred of evidence, which makes it a lot like stolen election claims. I think he could do it, and I think he would do it, so it might be real, in fact it IS real!

Now if I'm wrong, and in fact 9 of 10 of these benchmark audits do in fact target people who don't even itemize deductions, then I'll grant more credibility to the concept, but it is still a smear without any evidence of tampering. And even if there was tampering, it doesn't mean Trump was involved. I suspect there are several people at Treasury who could influence the process.

[rightleft22]

Boris Johnson gets booted for having a Party during Corvid and hiring a person accused of sexual assault or something - being tone deaf I guess.  (suspect other factors)

Meanwhile back in the USA the GOP can't seem to get away from a man with a lot of.... character baggage

[NobleHunter]

That the "random Trump enemies" were both former directors of the FBI does lower the odds of simple coincidence. Though we shouldn't move any further than viewing with suspicion until there's actual evidence of wrongdoing.

[TheDrake]

Well its referred to IG now, anyway. I think that's probably appropriate, if only to correct the perception of the public. I mean it could have been two members of congress, or the media, etc. I am acutely reminded about how the right wailed and railed about IRS targeting of their charitable organizations, and I was similarly skeptical back then. It turned out that the IRS was investigating Tea Party groups, for good reason, because a lot of them were thinly veiled shady non-exempt outfits. IRS at the time also targeted groups with "progressive" in their names for similar reasons.

[wmLambert]

I mean that is something I don't get. WmLambert and others keep calling me a Never Trumper so my opinion does not matter. But aren't they Never Biden/Obama/Clinton's?  Why should I believe anything they say about those 3 then?

You are dead wrong, once again. You are not denigrated as a "Never-Trumper" because of bias against you. You are labeled that way because you avoid truth and accept disinformation. Those who raise questions about Biden/Obama/Clinton do so by noticing what the complicit media has avoided covering. In general, honest investigation of Biden/Obama/Clinton uncovers huge amounts of events that the Democrats avoid. Instead of looking at the info, the response is to attack those who simply want the truth. The Biden Crime Family is labeled that because of their actions. The evidence is out there. There are no honest defenses raised.

Who should be investigating what happened on Jan 6? Who do you think is neutral enough for you?  Would you have Jim Jordan and Ted Cruz head it up? Do you really think they would give an honest review to what happened?

As Seriati explained, the legislature is about making laws. Setting up political opposition by inventing allegations to be taken to the DOJ is not part of what they are allowed to do. All investigations that meet the Constitutional requirements have specified legislation. There are no GOP originated hearings ever done that don't allow counsel for the witnesses or oppositional members appointed by themselves.

Many of those called Never Trumpers today were Trumpers in the early days. And then they saw how Trump behaved and did not like what they saw. Why does that make them RINO's? Because that is what is being claimed by Trump and his supporters.

Just because there are RINOs doesn't mean they are mislabeled. Because Trump has little skin in their game doesn't make them happy. When Trump was elected, they assumed the game was the same and they held all the cards. When they realized they couldn't deal from the bottom as they always had, they became Never-Trumpers. What is so hard for you to understand?

[msquared]

I avoid truth?  You mean your truth? I could say the same thing about you. You avoid truth. You believe disinformation.  See how easy that is?

There have been investigations into Obama and Clinton. Maybe too early for Biden.  I have no problem with investigating them. However, if the group comes back with nothing I let it go. You do not.  If nothing is found then somehow the group is part of the Deep State and corrupt.

You did not answer my question.  Who should investigate Trump? Trump's allies? The Commission is legal. It has Republicans on it. All people questioned are allowed counsel.

I do not want a President who has little "skin" in the game. I want him invested.  Invested in the good of the country. Trump is only invested in himself.

There is more evidence for Trump's crimes then there are for anything Obama did. You are just blindly opposed to any Democrat, not matter what.  It is an article of faith for you that Democrats are evil and only out for the destruction of America. You are the one who has been brainwashed.  Of course you will say your position is one of complete logic and truth. All zealots think that.

[wmLambert]

I avoid truth?  You mean your truth? I could say the same thing about you. You avoid truth. You believe disinformation.  See how easy that is?

Yes. You hide from truth. You change the subject or use the debate fallacy of Laughter by Intimidation when questions are raised that you should know about and be livid about - and somehow they don't make a dint in your Democrat apologist smugness. Hunter's laptop has been verified - even though the Biden Crime Family still says it is not. We have emails from Hunter that incriminate himself, his father, his uncle, and show the criminal elements throughout the family. Outside of the laptop, which only confirms the other stuff known about the Bidens, we have years of established facts and testimony that shows the criminality. Joe Biden is a liar and plagiarist. No one argues that anymore - they just excuse it with a different rationalization each time.

By contrast those who ask about Clinton, and Obama, and Biden raise questions. Name one thing that allowed Rahm Emanuel to avoid the leg chains at the airport like Biden's DOJ used against Trump people? Why do the felons harassing SCOTUS avoid arrests, when there are people arrested for J6 who are still in jail but have yet to be arraigned? Have you ever learned what the Soviet show trials were all about? Sussman skated when we do know he was rescued by a Democrat judge and jury. The eyewitness affidavits that documented election violations were not allowed in court. The courts said there were not the numbers to affect the election (however; how they could determine such a thing without opening the files is never explained.) The 2000 Mules documentary showed the numbers were far more than was needed to steal the election. There are literally thousands of facts that demand attention over the years that have been avoided.

There have been investigations into Obama and Clinton. Maybe too early for Biden.  I have no problem with investigating them. However, if the group comes back with nothing I let it go. You do not.  If nothing is found then somehow the group is part of the Deep State and corrupt.

Cute. Any investigations into Clinton and Obama were let go before the questions could be investigated. There was a media-term coined to describe the multitude of witnesses that died before getting to any investigations against Bill and Hillary. Do you know how many Arkancides were counted even before they won the Presidency?

I went to count the Arkancides and decided to put up the archived lists of Clinton crimes as a separate thread. The list was compiled a quarter century ago and if there have ever been exonerations given most of us somehow missed them.

You did not answer my question.  Who should investigate Trump? Trump's allies? The Commission is legal. It has Republicans on it. All people questioned are allowed counsel.

No. The unselect committee is not legal. it is unConstitutional. It is a Soviet-style Show Trial. No one should investigate Trump without cause. The only reason for the Pelosi travesty is because there is no cause.

I do not want a President who has little "skin" in the game. I want him invested.  Invested in the good of the country. Trump is only invested in himself.

Playing with words. "Skin in the game" referred to the Swamp Monsters' personal self-interest - to which Trump was not party to. You should invest in Trump. There is no need of investigation. ...And Trump is invested in the USA, not himself. Didn't you ever notice his followers' hats say MAGA?

There is more evidence for Trump's crimes then there are for anything Obama did. You are just blindly opposed to any Democrat, not matter what.  It is an article of faith for you that Democrats are evil and only out for the destruction of America. You are the one who has been brainwashed.  Of course you will say your position is one of complete logic and truth. All zealots think that.

No. I will put up a new thread listing the hundreds of crimes attributed to Clinton - both Bill and Hillary, as well as many of his friends and associates who were found guilty. Many of these accusations wrap around to Obama, because when he was elected, he had no advisors or "liege men" who he could appoint to his cabinet, because no one he was associated with could be passed on by the Hill. Instead of naming radical activists, he named Clinton's old cache of followers. His own people he named as "Czars."

[Tom]

And Trump is invested in the USA, not himself.

*sigh* You make me sad, William.

[msquared]

Bannon is going to testify.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/bannon-initiates-talks-january-6-144529750.html

[wmLambert]

And Trump is invested in the USA, not himself.

*sigh* You make me sad, William.

No one cares about your ego-saving whining. Face it. Trump worked for four years without pay. He put his business on hold and his fortune decreased in order to focus on the country. In spite of everything he did, the Never-Trumpers still refer to the straw-man they created, and not the real Trump. There is nothing sad-making about defending a good man. It is sad-making for those who should know better to refuse to open their eyes.

[Tom]

Are you under the impression that Trump left office poorer than he entered it?

[NobleHunter]

No one cares about your ego-saving whining. Face it. Trump worked for four years without pay. He put his business on hold and his fortune decreased in order to focus on the country. In spite of everything he did, the Never-Trumpers still refer to the straw-man they created, and not the real Trump. There is nothing sad-making about defending a good man. It is sad-making for those who should know better to refuse to open their eyes.

I'm not sure I would you call someone who has cheated on every wife he's had a good man.

[msquared]

Or scammed his followers out of hundreds of millions of dollars for election fraud investigations that have not happened.

[msquared]

Trump never gave Bannon Executive Privilege. It looks like Bannon lied about it.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/lawyer-bombshell-trump-never-bothered-120853661.html

[Mynnion]

WM-As you state Trump was president for 4 years.  He promised to Lock her Up.  Funny that there were no significant investigations into all of these issues while he was president.  You mention he served as president without pay yet he chose to stay at places where he was enriched by the SS being billed for their stays.  The tax payers would have been better off paying him and then either providing free room and board or stayed somewhere that wouldn't put the responsibility of paying huge amounts of taxpayer dollars to properties that directly benefit him.

[yossarian22c]

I avoid truth?  You mean your truth? I could say the same thing about you. You avoid truth. You believe disinformation.  See how easy that is?

Yes. You hide from truth. You change the subject or use the debate fallacy of Laughter by Intimidation when questions are raised that you should know about and be livid about - and somehow they don't make a dint in your Democrat apologist smugness. Hunter's laptop has been verified - even though the Biden Crime Family still says it is not. We have emails from Hunter that incriminate himself, his father, his uncle, and show the criminal elements throughout the family. Outside of the laptop, which only confirms the other stuff known about the Bidens, we have years of established facts and testimony that shows the criminality. Joe Biden is a liar and plagiarist. No one argues that anymore - they just excuse it with a different rationalization each time.
...

The laptops veracity has not been verified, some of the emails have been.

What we have verified is that Hunter was going around the world trading on his name. We also know he is under investigation for tax fraud. What remains to be seen is if Joe did anything as a result of the money Hunter got, which is what would make it illegal. Hunter can try to convince foreign companies to hire him for consulting gigs because of who his dad is. Its only illegal if the foreign companies get what they are paying for.

Trump is a liar, adulterer, pedophile (strolling through the locker rooms of underage girls at his pageants), and a con man (Trump U, Save the Steal funds).  That doesn't even get into the crimes he and his associates committed around the election. The Republican party can do better than Trump.

[Mynnion]

And since you bring up Hunter....  Shall we talk about the Trump children trading on their name to rake in money.  Since much of that goes to Trump Companies it DID directly connect the funds to Trump.

[msquared]

More bad news for Bannon. 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-appointed-judge-rejected-steve-183118183.html

He wanted to stop the trial for contempt by saying he will now testify (after Trump "waived" EP that Trump had no authority to waive). However, the contempt was for past actions. So tesifying now does not get him off.

[wmLambert]

I avoid truth?  You mean your truth? I could say the same thing about you. You avoid truth. You believe disinformation.  See how easy that is?

Yes. You hide from truth. You change the subject or use the debate fallacy of Laughter by Intimidation when questions are raised that you should know about and be livid about - and somehow they don't make a dint in your Democrat apologist smugness. Hunter's laptop has been verified - even though the Biden Crime Family still says it is not. We have emails from Hunter that incriminate himself, his father, his uncle, and show the criminal elements throughout the family. Outside of the laptop, which only confirms the other stuff known about the Bidens, we have years of established facts and testimony that shows the criminality. Joe Biden is a liar and plagiarist. No one argues that anymore - they just excuse it with a different rationalization each time.
...

The laptops veracity has not been verified, some of the emails have been.

What we have verified is that Hunter was going around the world trading on his name. We also know he is under investigation for tax fraud. What remains to be seen is if Joe did anything as a result of the money Hunter got, which is what would make it illegal. Hunter can try to convince foreign companies to hire him for consulting gigs because of who his dad is. Its only illegal if the foreign companies get what they are paying for.

Sorry, but the laptop has been totally verified by the DOJ. It was Hunter Biden's, the laptop became legally the property of the computer repair facility after Hunter violated his signed contract (also verified), and those selfies he made of himself using drugs and having sex with underage girls were not doctored by anyone. Those eMails you agreed are real, also named the President as the "Big Guy" who got a cut of all the illegal money coming in to the Biden Crime Family from Russia and China and other places surely have blackmail on the entire Biden family. Y'know, Joe sent our strategic gas reserves to the same Chinese gas company that Hunter helped found. Interesting coincidence, neh?

Why are you so compelled to wear blinders and excuse Joe Biden of his enabling of Hunter? Any other father would have moved Heaven and Earth to protect his children and mitigate the drug abuse and criminal violations. Instead Joe Biden wired Hunter the money to pay the Russian slave sex traffickers Hunter needed to pay for his blackmail category sex adventures. Hunter seemed to have an obsession with making selfies of his crimes. He made a video of himself negotiating with a drug dealer to lower the price of his drug purchase because he wanted to subtract the weight of the baggies from the total price of the drugs. Dan Bongino enumerated the unFatherly enabling of a drug-addicted sex-fiend. Forget about the political fallout. What kind of father does that? But then, wasn't it Joe in the shower with an underage girl in his family, who has testified it was all highly "improper." Forget his sniffing of hair and the pawing of any girl or women in his reach, since he first entered politics, how has he fought to save his wayward son?

BTW; you do know that Hunter is not just being investigated just for tax fraud, don't you? If you see a way out for Hunter that doesn't include prison time, please share with us your magical expectation. Have you even heard of Hunter's email slurs and attacks on Jill Biden? He's done all he can to make her his personal enemy.

Trump is a liar, adulterer, pedophile (strolling through the locker rooms of underage girls at his pageants), and a con man (Trump U, Save the Steal funds).  That doesn't even get into the crimes he and his associates committed around the election. The Republican party can do better than Trump.

You are the victim of being fed headlines by complicit media apologists. Biden is the liar. Always has been. He was never the smartest guy in the room. He did not graduate with three degrees and the only member of his law class with awards no one else merited. He plagiarized through school, getting caught many times. As well as politics.

[Wayward Son]

...those selfies he made of himself using drugs and having sex with underage girls were not doctored by anyone...

How do you know this?   And please don't quote those lying websites like the one that said that the Arizona election was tainted because the audit could not find the identity of 86,391 voters.

Those eMails you agreed are real, also named the President as the "Big Guy" who got a cut of all the illegal money coming into the Biden Crime Family from Russia and China and other places surely have blackmail on the entire Biden family.

Really?  How do you know this?

Any other father would have moved Heaven and Earth to protect his children and mitigate the drug abuse and criminal violations.

Don't talk about things you are totally ignorant of.  Have you ever had a child with a drug abuse problem?

Instead Joe Biden wired Hunter the money to pay the Russian slave sex traffickers Hunter needed to pay for his blackmail category sex adventures. Hunter seemed to have an obsession with making selfies of his crimes. He made a video of himself negotiating with a drug dealer to lower the price of his drug purchase because he wanted to subtract the weight of the baggies from the total price of the drugs. Dan Bongino enumerated the unFatherly enabling of a drug-addicted sex-fiend.

How do you know this?  How do you know this? How do you know this?  How do you know this?

You are the victim of being fed headlines by complicit media apologists.

And if you can't figure out that Trump is a liar, when he has blatantly lied to your face so many times, you wouldn't know a lie if it had just emptied your bank account.    So stop lecturing us for being gullible and manipulated by the media.  You have been so manipulated you don't know right from wrong anymore. 

And remember one other little thing.  No matter how guilty Hunter Biden is, no matter how many crimes he actually committed, no matter if President Biden actually helped his son cover-up the crimes or participated in the crimes, none of these things mean that Trump isn't guilty of crimes himself.  They have nothing to do with each other.  Joseph Biden could be the worst criminal President in the history of our country, but that doesn't mean Donald Trump wasn't the second worst, and shouldn't be punished for his crimes, too.  Or are you using the old Whataboutism argument that, since your guy wasn't prosecuted for raping your sister, my guy shouldn't be prosecuted, either?

[msquared]

Trump is the Savior (of rich white guys) who can do no wrong, has never done any wrong and never will do any wrong, ever. And if he does, it was not wrong.

Trump is the perfect President, the perfect man, the perfect Christian. There is no flaw in him anywhere.

[TheDrake]

Sorry, but the laptop has been totally verified by the DOJ.

I'm sorry, is that the corrupt DOJ that spied on Trump, let Hillary off the Hook, and prosecuted innocents like Flynn and Stone? That refused to expose the rigged election? And this DOJ that validated the laptop, they are now covering for Hunter's massive forays into sexual abuse of children and drug deals? This seems plausible to you?

[wmLambert]

...those selfies he made of himself using drugs and having sex with underage girls were not doctored by anyone...

How do you know this?   And please don't quote those lying websites like the one that said that the Arizona election was tainted because the audit could not find the identity of 86,391 voters.

No. I won't mention totally honest news sources which only deal in fact, because you obviously defame and argue with any which are not complicit with the Democrat disinformation. Of course these disinformation places are where you kneel to five times a day and are the ones which lied about Trump for years. (Russia! Russia! Russia!)

Instead, let us agree that the chain of evidence has been followed scrupulously the entire time the laptop was in the custody of the computer repairman. He contacted the sources in the contract to reach Hunter, with no success. After the legal steps had been followed, the laptop became his property, and he contacted the correct legal entities to report the questionable and possibly treasonous documents on the computer. The FBI has had the hard drives in their possession the entire time - but you say it is up to me to prove its verity?

Your conjecture is that the Russians somehow got access to the laptop before it was a timely weapon, and edited harmless info into phony info that could blackmail Biden? Again, apply Occam's Razor - They already have blackmailable evidence on the Bidens. Joe paid a huge Hunter bill to a Sex-trafficking ring, Do you expect them not to have the usual blackmail material on Hunter without needing a laptop?

BTW, as a professional Producer/director for many years, I doubt the Russians could manufacture such phony stuff without me being able to prove it was phony. Any forensic lab could - but have not. Face it. It's all real, and The Biden Crime Family should all be perp-walked in orange jumpsuits into the prison bus.

Those eMails you agreed are real, also named the President as the "Big Guy" who got a cut of all the illegal money coming into the Biden Crime Family from Russia and China and other places surely have blackmail on the entire Biden family.

Really?  How do you know this?

After the fore-mentioned info, how can you not?

Any other father would have moved Heaven and Earth to protect his children and mitigate the drug abuse and criminal violations.

Don't talk about things you are totally ignorant of.  Have you ever had a child with a drug abuse problem?

Of course not. My children were raised with love and honor. However; I also worked at The Criminal Justice Institute putting together programs to teach those in the Criminal Justice genre how to respond to such problems. I know of what I speak.

Instead Joe Biden wired Hunter the money to pay the Russian slave sex traffickers Hunter needed to pay for his blackmail category sex adventures. Hunter seemed to have an obsession with making selfies of his crimes. He made a video of himself negotiating with a drug dealer to lower the price of his drug purchase because he wanted to subtract the weight of the baggies from the total price of the drugs. Dan Bongino enumerated the unFatherly enabling of a drug-addicted sex-fiend.

How do you know this?  How do you know this? How do you know this?  How do you know this?

You mean besides it being in the current news cycle? I've seen it mentioned in many places. Why don't you look at Bongino's daily archive for today and research the sources he mentioned. You obviously miss much. Look at the real news for awhile.

You are the victim of being fed headlines by complicit media apologists.

And if you can't figure out that Trump is a liar, when he has blatantly lied to your face so many times, you wouldn't know a lie if it had just emptied your bank account.    So stop lecturing us for being gullible and manipulated by the media. You have been so manipulated you don't know right from wrong anymore. 

And remember one other little thing.  No matter how guilty Hunter Biden is, no matter how many crimes he actually committed, no matter if President Biden actually helped his son cover-up the crimes or participated in the crimes, none of these things mean that Trump isn't guilty of crimes himself.  They have nothing to do with each other.  Joseph Biden could be the worst criminal President in the history of our country, but that doesn't mean Donald Trump wasn't the second worst, and shouldn't be punished for his crimes, too.  Or are you using the old Whataboutism argument that, since your guy wasn't prosecuted for raping your sister, my guy shouldn't be prosecuted, either?

On the contrary, between the two of us, I have been exposed to the complicit bumbling of the MSM as well as all other venues - evidently including sources you have never looked at. As for comparing liars, you don't want to go there because Biden and the Democrats as a whole are proven liars, while Trump is usually only accused of lying - but after the short-memoried MSM loses interest, the "lie" is proven to be true, but not reported to the Left's useful idiots. That is you. How many years of Russia! Russia! Russia! did you swallow before you had to admit that was all Hillary?

If anything happens, Joe is happy to lie without any remorse. Roe vs. Wade goes back to the States, and Joe goes with the 10-year old raped child who is 3 days beyond her State's abortion time limit - except that story was a hoax out of Indiana, if I remember correctly. The border guards are still going to be punished, even though they were found innocent of "strapping" illegals. If you want to check veracity, look at Trump's campaign promises. Unlike most elected officials, he didn't just provide lip service and then do something else. He followed through. Didn't Biden promised he would bring us all together?

One thing I will remember, is that Joe Biden did not just give Hunter cover, he committed crimes, himself.

Trump didn't.

Trump is not the second worse President at doing wrong things and lying about them. Like I said, at the time you were suckered in by the disinformation coming out of the Democrats, when Trump spoke the truth you called that a lie. Remember that list of thousands of lies told by Trump? most have been refuted,  but not taken off that list. Daniel Dale of CNN was responsible for much of that list, but his favorite worst lies were things like Trump noting the rain held off during his inauguration speech, when some people did get wet. ...or that Coronavirus was under control. Trump repeated his "expert's communications" to him, but he was branded the liar? It may have taken him too long to realize that Fauci was more the problem than the solution, but his Operation Warpspeed was real. Those who revel in a Trump as a liar strawman, often note the "Sharpiegate" hurricane track that had to be walked back by his staff. No - you don't want to compare that to Biden, do you? A state Boyscout leader spoke to Trump - and Dale called him a liar because the local leader wasn't the national Boyscouts leader

No, Trump is known for being able to talk to the common man and to be understood. Biden is the opposite. Too bad. The world would be a whole lot better place had Trump remained in the Presidency. But Biden apologists will still find something to grouse about.

[wmLambert]

Sorry, but the laptop has been totally verified by the DOJ.

I'm sorry, is that the corrupt DOJ that spied on Trump, let Hillary off the Hook, and prosecuted innocents like Flynn and Stone? That refused to expose the rigged election? And this DOJ that validated the laptop, they are now covering for Hunter's massive forays into sexual abuse of children and drug deals? This seems plausible to you?

Yes, because the lower echelons at justice want to do their jobs without the old Clinton executives getting in the way. It may be too late for the Swamp Monsters on the Seventh Floor to hide everything and get rid of all the evidence. Yes, someone's going to prison, and it's not Trump.

[yossarian22c]

Sorry, but the laptop has been totally verified by the DOJ.

I'm sorry, is that the corrupt DOJ that spied on Trump, let Hillary off the Hook, and prosecuted innocents like Flynn and Stone? That refused to expose the rigged election? And this DOJ that validated the laptop, they are now covering for Hunter's massive forays into sexual abuse of children and drug deals? This seems plausible to you?

Yes, because the lower echelons at justice want to do their jobs without the old Clinton executives getting in the way. It may be too late for the Swamp Monsters on the Seventh Floor to hide everything and get rid of all the evidence. Yes, someone's going to prison, and it's not Trump.

The Clinton's maintained control of the FBI through Bush, Obama, and the Trump administration  ?!?!?

Can you name a senior official in the FBI/DOJ who has been an "executive" since 1999? They have to have been "senior" the whole time. Could you provide a single name and position for who such a "swamp monster" could be?

[yossarian22c]

...
Sorry, but the laptop has been totally verified by the DOJ. It was Hunter Biden's, the laptop became legally the property of the computer repair facility after Hunter violated his signed contract (also verified), and those selfies he made of himself using drugs and having sex with underage girls were not doctored by anyone.
...

Who at the DOJ verified the laptop was Hunter Biden's and that Hunter Biden was the one who dropped it off? Was it in a press release? A court document? How has this been verified by the DOJ?

[wmLambert]

...
Sorry, but the laptop has been totally verified by the DOJ. It was Hunter Biden's, the laptop became legally the property of the computer repair facility after Hunter violated his signed contract (also verified), and those selfies he made of himself using drugs and having sex with underage girls were not doctored by anyone.
...

Who at the DOJ verified the laptop was Hunter Biden's and that Hunter Biden was the one who dropped it off? Was it in a press release? A court document? How has this been verified by the DOJ?

Here's a pull quote from The Washington Examiner (https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/restoring-america/fairness-justice/hunter-bidens-laptop-is-legit-despite-white-houses-refusal-to-acknowledge-it) :

HUNTER BIDEN'S LAPTOP IS 100% AUTHENTIC, FORENSIC EXAMINATION CONCLUDES

Numerous news outlets, including the Washington Examiner, the Washington Post, and the New York Times, have authenticated the contents of the hard drive.

The Washington Examiner commissioned Konstantinos "Gus" Dimitrelos, a former Secret Service agent who has testified as a cyberforensics expert in over 100 classified, criminal, and civil matters at the state, federal, and international levels, to conduct a full examination of all the files on the drive. Dimitrelos found no evidence of tampering or hacking on the drive and that Hunter Biden is the only person capable of producing the data found on the drive.

"My analysis revealed there is a 100% certainty that Robert Hunter Biden was the only person responsible for the activity on this hard drive and all of its stored data," Dimitrelos said in May. "Hunter Biden's MacBook Pro was not hacked, and the data contained on the hard drive is authentic. Based on the data I examined, there was no manipulation of any photographs, emails, documents, or other user activities."

I've read several quotes from the DOJ that have confirmed the laptop is genuine. You can find them by searching - but be patient, many servers are still under control of Leftist apologists who do everything they can to block what they consider bad news. If you get through all the old info about Russia! Russia! Russia! you can find them, Find one that meets your own definition of reliable. You can also try to zero in on the hackers who have gotten into Hunter's cell phone calls. The man is his own worst enemy.

[yossarian22c]

...
I've read several quotes from the DOJ that have confirmed the laptop is genuine. You can find them by searching - but be patient
...

So you make claims but have no sources. And ask me to dig through pages of google searches to support your claim. No thanks. Just show me where the DOJ confirmed the entire laptop is genuinely Hunter Biden's or make your supported lesser claim that many of the emails have been authenticated.

[wmLambert]

...
I've read several quotes from the DOJ that have confirmed the laptop is genuine. You can find them by searching - but be patient
...

So you make claims but have no sources. And ask me to dig through pages of google searches to support your claim. No thanks. Just show me where the DOJ confirmed the entire laptop is genuinely Hunter Biden's or make your supported lesser claim that many of the emails have been authenticated.

Stop searching for excuses. Was Nina Jankowicz forced to resign her Orwellian position of head of the Disinformation Governance Board because she said Hunter's laptop was not verified and the Steele Dossier was, or not? I guess you missed all that, neh?

[Tom]

William, is it sufficient to reply to your assertions with "no, that's not an accurate description of events?"

[msquared]

Wm has a bad case of CDS. Clinton has been out of office for what, 20 years?

[Tom]

I have to confess that I find the whole "Derangement Syndrome" thing to be absolutely exhausting. IMO, anyone who accuses anyone of it might as well be stamping a big "Please ignore my gormless opinions" warning across their own forehead.