Author Topic: Putin... Why?  (Read 380 times)

alai

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Re: Putin... Why?
« Reply #50 on: January 27, 2022, 11:54:14 PM »
a large number of the woke crowd
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Many of the woke crowd
By all means, please don't let the actual topic detain you from your customary wokeological maunderings.

cherrypoptart

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Re: Putin... Why?
« Reply #51 on: Today at 12:30:17 AM »
Thanks.

Point is, nobody is going to do anything. Not physically.

If Russia wants it, Russia can take it.

I don't mind helping the Ukrainians with arms. Maybe they can turn it into another Afghanistan. I wouldn't count on it but they deserve a fighting chance.

Sure sanctions. Unfortunately Russia has Europe by the short hairs on energy.

The only serious constructive suggestion I might offer is if Europe really wants to be able to hit Russia they should go to war against fossil fuels. Put all the money and scientific expertise that would have been spent on newer and better weapons, bigger and more menacing militaries, into renewable energy instead. They can fight Russia and climate change and pollution at the same time.

An outside the box approach that probably wouldn't amount to much is to just try to get Russia to tell us what they want, exactly. What cities. What swath of land. What ports. What is it you are trying to get out of all of this?

And then see if they have something to trade. Russia has plenty of land. Maybe a land swap. It wouldn't necessarily be contiguous but it could open up opportunities for Ukraine. Maybe some land in the Far East, provide Ukraine some opportunities for trade and economic development with Far East Asia. Maybe a piece of
Sakhalin since Russia stole that from Japan anyway. Yeah I doubt anyone would actually go for it but since Russia can take what they want anyway at least Ukraine might get something out of it besides dead people. It'd take some Donald Trump level master negotiating acumen to pull off a win-win like that though.

alai

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Re: Putin... Why?
« Reply #52 on: Today at 12:50:54 AM »
The only serious constructive suggestion I might offer is if Europe really wants to be able to hit Russia they should go to war against fossil fuels. Put all the money and scientific expertise that would have been spent on newer and better weapons, bigger and more menacing militaries, into renewable energy instead. They can fight Russia and climate change and pollution at the same time.
I dunno if you follow any developments further to the left than Joe Manchin on this, but that kinda is the plan.  Unfortunately everyone -- aside from Joe! -- sees gas as the "stopgap" to that.

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An outside the box approach that probably wouldn't amount to much is to just try to get Russia to tell us what they want, exactly. What cities. What swath of land. What ports. What is it you are trying to get out of all of this?
He's issued a laundry-list of demands already, and they're already well off the scale of what Nato and the EU could possibly countenance.  Not necessarily wise to encourage him to make more, especially ones that presuppose changing international boundaries -- something that he denies wishing to do.  (Any more than he already has.)

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It'd take some Donald Trump level master negotiating acumen to pull off a win-win like that though.
His actual level of acumen, or the one asserted in that book he doesn't seem to have read, much less written?

alai

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Re: Putin... Why?
« Reply #53 on: Today at 01:04:53 AM »
Professor Mary Elise Sarotte, author of "Not One Inch", on the eastward expansion of Nato being a failure and/or a betrayal...

"I hesitate to say what is inside Vladimir Putin's mind.  I don't really know if it really believes this, or just thinks it's incredibly useful to instrumentalise..."

Also theorises nothing will happen at least until after the Winter Olympics, as the Chinese complained about Russian antics in 2008, so Xi will get sulky if something like that happens again.  Gabriel Gatehouse earlier saying that local intelligence is that Russian forces don't yet have either the numbers or the stance to invade.