Author Topic: Biden's appeal on misinformation & disinformation  (Read 17876 times)

LetterRip

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Re: Biden's appeal on misinformation & disinformation
« Reply #150 on: March 17, 2022, 01:26:48 PM »
This is the article,

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People familiar with the investigation said prosecutors had examined emails between Mr. Biden, Mr. Archer and others about Burisma and other foreign business activity. Those emails were obtained by The New York Times from a cache of files that appears to have come from a laptop abandoned by Mr. Biden in a Delaware repair shop. The email and others in the cache were authenticated by people familiar with them and with the investigation.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/16/us/politics/hunter-biden-tax-bill-investigation.html

"appears to have come from" is not "So the NYT is positioning the Hunter Biden laptop story as legit and real."

It was always acknowledged that the laptop, even if it were a Russian set-up, might have some or many, or even the majority of emails on it as legitimate.  The difficulty is in ascertaining which are legitimate, and which are faked.

The article appears to suggest that emails have been authenticated that show that Hunter Biden violated FARA, other parts of the article are about falsely filed taxes.

ScottF

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Re: Biden's appeal on misinformation & disinformation
« Reply #151 on: March 18, 2022, 01:38:33 PM »
It was always acknowledged that the laptop, even if it were a Russian set-up, might have some or many, or even the majority of emails on it as legitimate. 

Lol. It was acknowledged by the public that it was likely legitimate, but the opposite was true according to approved/sanctioned social media.

Remember the 50 intel "experts" that signed a document stating that "our experience makes us deeply suspicious that the Russian government played a significant role in this case..."? I'm sure if Trump jr's laptop had been found, the exact same skepticism and media bans would have been enacted. /s

Luckily the election was concluded just in time for the public to see the intel "experts" opinions, but not any news outlets trying to explore the story further. Because they were banned for spreading "misinformation". In this case, misinformation = information, true or not, that would be directly harmful to our intended outcomes. Nothing was to going to get in the way of Trump being ousted.

yossarian22c

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Re: Biden's appeal on misinformation & disinformation
« Reply #152 on: March 18, 2022, 02:53:06 PM »
It was always acknowledged that the laptop, even if it were a Russian set-up, might have some or many, or even the majority of emails on it as legitimate. 

Lol. It was acknowledged by the public that it was likely legitimate, but the opposite was true according to approved/sanctioned social media.

Remember the 50 intel "experts" that signed a document stating that "our experience makes us deeply suspicious that the Russian government played a significant role in this case..."? I'm sure if Trump jr's laptop had been found, the exact same skepticism and media bans would have been enacted. /s

Luckily the election was concluded just in time for the public to see the intel "experts" opinions, but not any news outlets trying to explore the story further. Because they were banned for spreading "misinformation". In this case, misinformation = information, true or not, that would be directly harmful to our intended outcomes. Nothing was to going to get in the way of Trump being ousted.

So the Biden DOJ has continued to press charges on tax fraud and investigating the foreign lobbyist registration but are covering up child porn?

LetterRip

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Re: Biden's appeal on misinformation & disinformation
« Reply #153 on: March 18, 2022, 03:11:56 PM »
The laptop is unlikely to be legitimate.  Claims by conservative disinformation sites to the contrary - the NYT didn't 'admit' it was legitimate.

There really is no reason to think it is legitimate.

If the laptop has actual Hunter Biden emails on it - no one with any knowledge of espionage would be surprised.  Only morons who know nothing about espionage would expect that it would be completely faked, or even mostly faked.  The problem is that it takes an enormous forensic effort to determine what, if anything, on the laptop is legitimate.  All of the innocuous and meaningless emails are probably legitimate.  Any incriminating email, photo, video, or other document has to be treated with extreme caution.

Russian intelligence does forgeries frequently to frame political opposition,

https://www.forbes.com/sites/thomasbrewster/2017/05/26/russian-dnc-hackers-planted-leaks-with-fake-data/

We know there was a forged identity and forged document used in the Hunter Biden story,

https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/security/how-fake-persona-laid-groundwork-hunter-biden-conspiracy-deluge-n1245387

So anything found on the laptop that is supposedly incriminating has to be assumed tainted and a forgery until investigation can determine from other sources if it is legitimate.

It is entirely possible that some of the legitimate emails by Hunter involve illegal behavior.  So the fact that some apparently incriminating emails are verified to be legitimate isn't surprising.  This doesn't change the fact that the laptop was likely a Russian plant and likely contains some amount of forged documents.

Given that Hunter Biden was already being investigated by the DoJ under Obama, it isn't surprising that there were legitimate emails related to that investigation.

wmLambert

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Re: Biden's appeal on misinformation & disinformation
« Reply #154 on: March 19, 2022, 11:39:28 PM »
The laptop is unlikely to be legitimate.  Claims by conservative disinformation sites to the contrary - the NYT didn't 'admit' it was legitimate.

There really is no reason to think it is legitimate.

If the laptop has actual Hunter Biden emails on it - no one with any knowledge of espionage would be surprised.  Only morons who know nothing about espionage would expect that it would be completely faked, or even mostly faked.  The problem is that it takes an enormous forensic effort to determine what, if anything, on the laptop is legitimate.  All of the innocuous and meaningless emails are probably legitimate.  Any incriminating email, photo, video, or other document has to be treated with extreme caution.

Russian intelligence does forgeries frequently to frame political opposition,



https://www.forbes.com/sites/thomasbrewster/2017/05/26/russian-dnc-hackers-planted-leaks-with-fake-data/

We know there was a forged identity and forged document used in the Hunter Biden story,

https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/security/how-fake-persona-laid-groundwork-hunter-biden-conspiracy-deluge-n1245387

So anything found on the laptop that is supposedly incriminating has to be assumed tainted and a forgery until investigation can determine from other sources if it is legitimate.

It is entirely possible that some of the legitimate emails by Hunter involve illegal behavior.  So the fact that some apparently incriminating emails are verified to be legitimate isn't surprising.  This doesn't change the fact that the laptop was likely a Russian plant and likely contains some amount of forged documents.

Given that Hunter Biden was already being investigated by the DoJ under Obama, it isn't surprising that there were legitimate emails related to that investigation.

Ridiculous. The laptop is 100% confirmed to be Hunter's - and the NYT has corroborated the eMails that named Joe Biden as getting a percentage of all the graft. Not to mention the eyewitness testimony of Tony Bobulinsky who repeated the meetings he had with all the Bidens - including Joe Biden. We're talking about billions of dollars of illegal graft. The DOJ Swamp monsters and never-Trumpers lied and have been proven to have known that they lied. There was never "just suspicoin" and no apologies. They said Russia was behind it all, just in time for the electoin - for no other reason than to affect the election.

https://www.bizpacreview.com/2022/03/19/51-defiant-intelligence-experts-refuse-to-apologize-for-falsely-discrediting-hunter-biden-story-1214565/

Just lying to the courts is enough to send them to prison. Latest studies say that a huge percentage of Biden voters would never have supported him had the reporting been honest. Trump would be in his second term - and Putin would never have invaded The Ukraine. And the Taliban would not be running Afghanistan, now. There would be no inflation.

...Yet we still see Biden apologists here.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2022, 11:43:11 PM by wmLambert »

LetterRip

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Re: Biden's appeal on misinformation & disinformation
« Reply #155 on: March 19, 2022, 11:58:28 PM »
No it has never and still isn't confirmed as his.  Even if it were confirmed as his, it still wouldn't suggest it was delivered to the computer repair person by him.  Given the extremely odd circumstances surrounding it, it is unlikely that it was delivered by Hunter Biden to that computer repair shop.

The story wasn't "falsely discredited" - it was rightfully considered unlikely given the totality of circumstances.  By far the most plausible explanation at this time is that the laptop was planted by foreign service operatives.

That doesn't mean that it isn't a laptop that Hunter owned at some point - given he has had laptops stolen it is quite possible it is one he has owned.  It also doesn't mean that all or even most of the documents on the laptop aren't legitimate.  It does mean though that the lack of evidence means we should be skeptical of any content claimed to originate from the laptop without thorough vetting and third party verification.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2022, 12:03:09 AM by LetterRip »

ScottF

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Re: Biden's appeal on misinformation & disinformation
« Reply #156 on: March 20, 2022, 02:53:55 PM »
The story wasn't "falsely discredited" - it was rightfully considered unlikely given the totality of circumstances.
The pretzel you're twisting yourself into to defend the fact that reporting on it was literally banned is astounding.
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It does mean though that the lack of evidence means we should be skeptical of any content claimed to originate from the laptop without thorough vetting and third party verification.
As a default-skeptic, I agree. Should "skepticism" include banning information and a cabal of 50 so-called intel experts officially saying they think a story is likely false BEFORE it's vetted?

I was skeptical of the Trump pee tape but noticed a distinct absence of media banning or committee-signed declarations saying it was likely false. Why is that?

TheDeamon

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Re: Biden's appeal on misinformation & disinformation
« Reply #157 on: March 20, 2022, 09:26:16 PM »
Latest studies say that a huge percentage of Biden voters would never have supported him had the reporting been honest. Trump would be in his second term - and Putin would never have invaded The Ukraine. And the Taliban would not be running Afghanistan, now. There would be no inflation.
Trump would have had inflation, the spending for Covid19 under him, and internationally assured that much. It probably wouldn't have been as pronounced though.

The Taliban likely would still be in control of Afghanistan, but its fall to them would likely take a different form. The desperate airlift from Kabul also wouldn't have happened.

The Russia-Ukraine War is questionable under a 2nd term Trump, but I wouldn't rule it out completely. I think other factors are in play there, although Biden likely moved up the timeline.

TheDrake

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Re: Biden's appeal on misinformation & disinformation
« Reply #158 on: March 21, 2022, 09:48:55 AM »
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Now it has been largely discredited by two federal investigations and the indictment of a key source, leaving journalists to reckon how, in the heat of competition, so many were taken in so easily because the dossier seemed to confirm what they already suspected.

Many of the dossier’s allegations have turned out to be fictitious or, at best, unprovable. That wasn’t for want of trying by reporters from mainstream and progressive media outlets. Many journalists did show restraint. The New York Times’s Adam Goldman was asked by the Washington Post media critic Erik Wemple about two years ago how reporters should have approached an unverified rumor from the dossier. He responded, “By not publishing.”

Others couldn’t wait to dive in.

Two reporters in McClatchy’s Washington bureau, for example, wrote that the special counsel Robert Mueller had found evidence for one of the most tantalizing bits of the dossier, that Mr. Trump’s lawyer Michael Cohen secretly visited Prague during the 2016 campaign. That would have been a key link in the claim that he was there to coordinate campaign strategy with the Russians. It wasn’t true.

Over time, the standards for proof diminished to the point that if something couldn’t be proved to be false, the assumption was that it was probably true. As MSNBC’s Rachel Maddow once put it: A number of the elements “remain neither verified nor proven false, but none so far have been publicly disproven.”

There is a problem with how this was reported, but lets not draw equivalence. Right wing media doesn't say, "Hunter Biden can't prove it isn't his laptop." They say, "This was Hunter Biden's laptop and it has child pornography on it that he personally put there." Witness them also now describing the NY Times as having corroborated their story, when it was a reference in passing that failed to include "alleged" in the description.

wmLambert

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Re: Biden's appeal on misinformation & disinformation
« Reply #159 on: March 28, 2022, 03:14:37 PM »
...Right wing media doesn't say, "Hunter Biden can't prove it isn't his laptop." They say, "This was Hunter Biden's laptop and it has child pornography on it that he personally put there." Witness them also now describing the NY Times as having corroborated their story, when it was a reference in passing that failed to include "alleged" in the description.

I guess self-photos of Hunter doing what you said might be Russian trickery doesn't count? Stop it, already! We know Hunter personally dropped off the laptops. We have the documents with his signature, as well as multiple eyewitness corroboration. Do not continue with the disinformation that Russia may have cobbled up a false laptop with some real stuff- but mostly made-up stuff, then sent Hunter to drop it off. I remember a time when Adam Schiff's holy Democrat staff member whistleblower was enough for months of outrageous coverage against Trump. Now you support ignoring eyewitness testimony against Joe, Hunter, and the wholw Biden crime family. Enough! Joe is dirty.

McConnel may be dirty because of his wife's business dealings with China building her merchant ships for her. So go after that. Don't ignore a far worse crime against Biden, Hillary, and all the Democrat swamp monsters, and Never-Trumpers.

yossarian22c

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Re: Biden's appeal on misinformation & disinformation
« Reply #160 on: March 28, 2022, 03:25:55 PM »
...Right wing media doesn't say, "Hunter Biden can't prove it isn't his laptop." They say, "This was Hunter Biden's laptop and it has child pornography on it that he personally put there." Witness them also now describing the NY Times as having corroborated their story, when it was a reference in passing that failed to include "alleged" in the description.

I guess self-photos of Hunter doing what you said might be Russian trickery doesn't count? Stop it, already! We know Hunter personally dropped off the laptops. We have the documents with his signature, as well as multiple eyewitness corroboration. Do not continue with the disinformation that Russia may have cobbled up a false laptop with some real stuff- but mostly made-up stuff, then sent Hunter to drop it off. I remember a time when Adam Schiff's holy Democrat staff member whistleblower was enough for months of outrageous coverage against Trump. Now you support ignoring eyewitness testimony against Joe, Hunter, and the wholw Biden crime family. Enough! Joe is dirty.
...

No one is ignoring anything Hunter is in the process of being indicted on tax fraud. Unless you think the DOJ cares more about that than child porn, then maybe you're being fed some bad information.

The only person who claims to have seen Hunter drop the laptop off is "legally blind." Also very convenient that Hunter in the middle of his father's campaign just happened to drop off a laptop in Delaware (when he was living in California) with a bad phone number and decided to never go get them back.

Hunter is probably guilty of the same foreign lobbying crap that Flynn was involved in. But maybe not since he was explicit in his emails about saying I can't do this or that because it might violate the foreign lobbyist restrictions. He is also probably guilty of tax fraud, like your great leader Trump. Its not unlikely the laptop was a plant that had real hacked emails and then other worse stuff. In fact since the DOJ hasn't brought charges on any of the worse stuff I think its pretty safe to say that stuff was bogus.