Author Topic: Trump looses again  (Read 19536 times)

wmLambert

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Re: Trump looses again
« Reply #200 on: August 12, 2022, 02:51:07 PM »
Trump posted: “Nuclear weapons issue is a Hoax, just like Russia, Russia, Russia was a Hoax, two Impeachments were a Hoax, the Mueller investigation was a Hoax, and much more,” Trump posted on Truth Social Friday morning. “Same sleazy people involved. Why wouldn’t the FBI allow the inspection of areas at Mar-a-Lago with our lawyers, or others, present. Made them wait outside in the heat, wouldn’t let them get even close – said “ABSOLUTELY NOT.” Planting information anyone? Reminds me of a Christopher Steele Dossier!”

yossarian22c

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Re: Trump looses again
« Reply #201 on: August 12, 2022, 02:59:32 PM »
...

There is no argument that Trump declassified this material and agreed to the NARA requests for safe-guarding anything they were unnecessarily nervous about. He has stated he did follow all their requests for security. More details will reveal more -  but be careful to see the slant put on by the instigators of this raid. There was nothing taken in this raid that would not have been given over by a simple request without the political chicanery.

Argument! There is no evidence he declassified this material while he had the legal right to do so. The justice department claims they subpoenaed these documents earlier and Trump did not turn them over. That shoots down the argument that a simple request would have sufficed to get the documents back. A request was made. Then a subpoena was served. When the documents weren't returned then the FBI went and took them back with a warrant.

yossarian22c

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Re: Trump looses again
« Reply #202 on: August 12, 2022, 03:01:45 PM »
... Made them wait outside in the heat, wouldn’t let them get even close – said “ABSOLUTELY NOT.” ...

Maybe because the lawyers didn't have clearance to read the documents being collected.

Wayward Son

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Re: Trump looses again
« Reply #203 on: August 12, 2022, 03:50:22 PM »
In the spirit of this thread, Trump scores more victories:

Eric Trump posted, "DonaldJTrump.com is shattering all fundraising records and I’m told has raised more money in the past 24 hours than ever before in recent history! The American people are pissed!” The more the RINO-Left attacks Trump, the greater he grows. They just can't learn.

Yep.  Because ultimately that's what this is all about--getting you to give him money.

He'll lie to you, tell you what you want to hear, tell you that everyone else is lying.  And then ask you to give him money.  Ask you to make him richer.  He because he isn't rich enough already.  He doesn't have enough money to do this himself.  You need to give him money.

How much have you given him over the years, William.  Added it up yet?  How much richer have you made Donald Trump?

So don't question his lies.  Because everyone else--every news media, conservative or liberal; every judge; every former aide or worker; every document; anyone that contradicts him, including himself--everyone else lies.  He is the only one telling the truth, in every detail.  Be like Jimmy Stewart in Mr. Smith Goes to Washington, grasping the letters and telegrams and declaring them all lies.  Because they are all lies, aren't they?  There is no one in the entire world more trustworthy and honest than Donald J. Trump.  No one who knows the law better.  No one who is smarter.  No one greater, even God with his silly rules for other people.  There is only your lord and savior, Donald J. Trump.

So, yes, give him your money, in his time of need.  Because look at what he is giving you.  Faith.  And Hope.  And you'll give up everything for those, won't you?  :'(

Wayward Son

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Re: Trump looses again
« Reply #204 on: August 12, 2022, 03:59:44 PM »
Meanwhile, the New York Times reports that, of the three statues that the search warrant was based upon (as Breibart reports), none of them "turn on whether information was deemed to be unclassified."

Even if Trump somehow declassified them (without going through the proper channels), he may still be criminally liable. ;D

rightleft22

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Re: Trump looses again
« Reply #205 on: August 12, 2022, 04:03:42 PM »
but what if they were emails! Lock her up

but what if, or maybe it was this, or worse that or this and that....

Why don't we wait see, look at the laws that apply and move on from their... but that wouldn't rise any money

msquared

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Re: Trump looses again
« Reply #206 on: August 12, 2022, 05:30:43 PM »
Why do we have to assume they were declassified?  There is a process to that. Trump could have ordered it (when he was President) but he personally does not do the de classification. There should be records of what items were declassified. You sure seem to make leaps in assumptions that do not seem to be justified by facts presented.

msquared

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Re: Trump looses again
« Reply #207 on: August 12, 2022, 05:33:47 PM »
Now that Robin Voss no longer needs Trump (after Trump threw him under the bus), he is going his own way.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/wisconsin-gop-leader-fires-2020-180200228.html

msquared

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Re: Trump looses again
« Reply #208 on: August 12, 2022, 05:38:11 PM »
Also Trump declassifying TS/SCI info seems a bit cavalier for information that was that secret.  And I am sure that he was not keeping that info in the correct type of storage facility required by law.

Wayward Son

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Re: Trump looses again
« Reply #209 on: August 12, 2022, 06:07:14 PM »
To give you an idea how serious this could be, here's an ex-naval-intelligence guy giving a brief explanation of the classification system and the stakes that are involved.

Depending on what Trump had and who saw it (or even knew about it), he could have really f'ed-up our country.  Which means you, personally.  And your family, and your friends, and your neighbors... :(

msquared

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Re: Trump looses again
« Reply #210 on: August 12, 2022, 06:19:11 PM »
Trump during the campaign.  "I could shoot someone here on the street and I could get away with it."

Trump supporters. "He was talking Truthful Hyperbole/metaphorically."

Trump actually shoots some on the street.  "He was AntiFa"

Trump supporters. "We the guy he shot donated to Obama, once years ago and has a jay walking ticket. And he's black.  So nothing wrong here. He had it coming because he hated America."

Wayward Son

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Re: Trump looses again
« Reply #211 on: August 12, 2022, 07:07:16 PM »
And the warrant's been released.  (Link in the link.)

It will be interested to compare it to the one Trump got--if he ever releases it.  ;D

msquared

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Re: Trump looses again
« Reply #212 on: August 12, 2022, 07:16:18 PM »
He will release his copy just after he releases his tax returns but just before his Infrastructure Bill.

Ouija Nightmare

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Re: Trump looses again
« Reply #213 on: August 12, 2022, 09:39:52 PM »
He will release his copy just after he releases his tax returns but just before his Infrastructure Bill.


What? You don’t expect to see headlines like “ Trump Leaks FBI Warrant to Breitbart, Doxxing Agents Who Led Mar-A-Lago Search ” ?

msquared

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Re: Trump looses again
« Reply #214 on: August 13, 2022, 08:34:53 AM »
Trump allies claiming that the property was searched and no one was allowed to watch, so the evidence was planted.

Except Trump's own lawyers say differently.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-lawyer-says-watched-search-004554738.html

Mynnion

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Re: Trump looses again
« Reply #215 on: August 13, 2022, 09:22:07 AM »
Trump's lawyers are obviously corrupt and in the pay of Soros/Gates.  Wait that can't happen since he is a stable genius who only picks the bestest of the best.

msquared

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Re: Trump looses again
« Reply #216 on: August 13, 2022, 12:15:58 PM »
So Wm I want to ask you a question.

First, I agree that Trump has the authority to declassify any information he wanted while he was President. Do you accept that he not able to just do so just by saying so? That there is a process that has to be followed to do this? Witnesses, signatures placed on documents? Stamps showing when the document was declassified?  The reason I ask is that above you say we can assume that all of the documents take from MAL were declassified.  I am honestly curious. Why do we have to assume that?


Second, what is your thoughts on his declassifying TS/SCI level info?  From what I have read, this is the most sensitive info out that that can lead to immediate damage to the country or intelligence sources. Do you question Trump's reasoning for declassifying this type of info?

Mynnion

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Re: Trump looses again
« Reply #217 on: August 13, 2022, 12:54:58 PM »
The fact that the reported documents were classed as classified would indicate that these documents had not been declassified or they would no longer have that designation.  That means either Trump meant to declassify them and did not follow the proper protocols or they were never declassified.  Since they are classified we will never know exactly what information Trump had illegally moved to ML but I am hoping that enough information will be released to allow the public to decide the associated risks.

I have to wonder what motivated Trump to take the documents in the first place.

msquared

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Re: Trump looses again
« Reply #218 on: August 13, 2022, 02:20:32 PM »
Blackmail or book deal.

Mynnion

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Re: Trump looses again
« Reply #219 on: August 13, 2022, 02:30:48 PM »
That might make sense for some of them but those that are Top Secret?  Unless he was planning on blackmailing the government I can't see any reason beyond keeping them as a Trump card to sell to the highest bidder if he felt he needed to run.

NobleHunter

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Re: Trump looses again
« Reply #220 on: August 13, 2022, 03:09:02 PM »
Some of it was probably sheer entitlement. He never seemed to recognize that being President placed obligations on his as well as privileges.

Also, it's unfortunate that the penalty of being disqualified from office probably doesn't apply to the Presidency.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2022, 03:12:06 PM by NobleHunter »

wmLambert

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Re: Trump looses again
« Reply #221 on: August 13, 2022, 09:02:42 PM »
So Wm I want to ask you a question.

First, I agree that Trump has the authority to declassify any information he wanted while he was President. Do you accept that he not able to just do so just by saying so? That there is a process that has to be followed to do this? Witnesses, signatures placed on documents? Stamps showing when the document was declassified?  The reason I ask is that above you say we can assume that all of the documents take from MAL were declassified.  I am honestly curious. Why do we have to assume that?


Second, what is your thoughts on his declassifying TS/SCI level info?  From what I have read, this is the most sensitive info out that that can lead to immediate damage to the country or intelligence sources. Do you question Trump's reasoning for declassifying this type of info?

No. According to the Constitutional experts and historians, There were no classified documents at Mar-a-Lago. The same group that requested them was the group that originally boxed them up and inventoried them. The whole raid is a political dog-and-pony show. Months before, Trump's attorneys told him there were no classified documents. They had all been declassified while he was President.

The librarian was looking for nuclear launch sites, But the documents have been there and known about forever. There is zero rationalization why anything had to be recovered ASAP in a predawn raid, with no witnesses allowed.

Just one more Democrat depredation against Trump because they are so afraid of him.

Tom

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Re: Trump looses again
« Reply #222 on: August 13, 2022, 09:07:34 PM »
Quote
According to the Constitutional experts and historians, There were no classified documents at Mar-a-Lago.
Who, specifically?

msquared

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Re: Trump looses again
« Reply #223 on: August 13, 2022, 09:18:09 PM »
So where is the documentation that they were declassified?  There should be some record of that, right?

Also earlier you said they had no right to search FLOTUS closets and the safe.  But the search warrant seems to give them the right to search those areas.

The NARA boxed up documents back in June but it seems they did not know about these documents. Why were they still there?

I see you did not respond to my second question, that would call Trump's judgment in to question.

msquared

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Re: Trump looses again
« Reply #224 on: August 13, 2022, 09:19:39 PM »
No witnesses is SOP it sounds like for FBI raids like this. Why should they make an exception for Trump?  Remember, the President is not above the law, which many of his supporters seem to think.

msquared

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Re: Trump looses again
« Reply #225 on: August 13, 2022, 09:36:58 PM »
I know this will not convince Wm since he is already sure that there were no classified documents at MAL.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trumps-lawyer-signed-statement-months-002954844.html

jc44

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Re: Trump looses again
« Reply #226 on: August 14, 2022, 10:05:53 AM »
I know this will not convince Wm since he is already sure that there were no classified documents at MAL.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trumps-lawyer-signed-statement-months-002954844.html

Well according to the BBC reporting on the raid https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-62527628 they found files marked top-secret, but apparently Trump had a standing order that any files removed from the Oval Office and taken there were to be deemed declassified, so by definition any files found must be declassified (no matter how marked). I wonder if someone in the US can submit an FOI request for their contents - after all if they are declassified that should just work - right?

Tom

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Re: Trump looses again
« Reply #227 on: August 14, 2022, 10:07:25 AM »
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apparently Trump had a standing order that any files removed from the Oval Office and taken there were to be deemed declassified
If that's true, that's appallingly unprofessional. Which means it's probably true.

msquared

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Re: Trump looses again
« Reply #228 on: August 14, 2022, 10:14:09 AM »
That was the point of my other question to Wm.  If Trump had a standing order to declassify any document he took out of the Oval Office wouldn't that call his judgment into question?
And to the "Standing Order" do we have any evidence that this claim is true other than Trump saying so?  Any statements from WH Staff/Cabinet Members/ Etc that this was SOP?  Did Trump inform any of the Congressional Intelligence Committes about this?

msquared

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Re: Trump looses again
« Reply #229 on: August 14, 2022, 12:26:17 PM »
One of Trump's own Chief of Staffs says Traitor Trump did not believe in the classification system.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/ex-white-house-chief-staff-141634701.html

"He felt he knew better."

More examples of Trump thinking he is above the law and that it does not apply to him.

Mynnion

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Re: Trump looses again
« Reply #230 on: August 14, 2022, 01:02:41 PM »
Let's assume that Trump actually did have this policy.  What proof does he have that he was actually president when they were removed?  Was he the one that actually removed them from the Oval Office?  He stated that he frequently took his work home with him.  I guess this means that he never dealt with classified documents when not in the Oval Office?

msquared

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Re: Trump looses again
« Reply #231 on: August 14, 2022, 01:03:47 PM »
So we seem to have a pattern.

Trump does not like the rules of marriage so he cheats on them.

He does not like the tax rules so he cheats on them.

He does not like the election rules so he tries to cheat on them.

He does not like the classification rules, so he cheats on them.


jc44

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Re: Trump looses again
« Reply #232 on: August 14, 2022, 02:56:27 PM »
Quote
apparently Trump had a standing order that any files removed from the Oval Office and taken there were to be deemed declassified
If that's true, that's appallingly unprofessional. Which means it's probably true.
If you read the linked BBC post you'll find that it was in a statement from Trumps office though that doesn't make it true I guess...

wmLambert

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Re: Trump looses again
« Reply #233 on: August 14, 2022, 04:38:16 PM »
That was the point of my other question to Wm.  If Trump had a standing order to declassify any document he took out of the Oval Office wouldn't that call his judgment into question?
And to the "Standing Order" do we have any evidence that this claim is true other than Trump saying so?  Any statements from WH Staff/Cabinet Members/ Etc that this was SOP?  Did Trump inform any of the Congressional Intelligence Committes about this?

There was no "standing order" after the fact. According to his attorneys and the several Constitutional experts like Jonathon Turley, "This is an act that is not heavily enforced, certainly not historically been criminally enforced. Some of the most egregious cases were handled rather lightly. Sandy Berger being an example. He actually stuffed documents in his socks and snuck them out of a secure location leaving them at a spot to be retrieved later. He received no jail time and just pled guilty to a misdemeanor. He wasn’t even forced to lose his security clearance permanently. It was just a three-year suspension. So this is an act that is not known for robust criminal enforcement. That does raise questions as to the all-hands-on-deck raid that occurred."

Well, preceding this raid, we have Left-wing Alan B. Morrison, associate dean at George Washington University Law School advising the J6 Committee to "...sue Trump in federal court, citing the insurrectionist clause in the 14th Amendment of the Constitution to block any future run for office — including for president." His op-ed in "The Hill" might have been the spur for the raid.

As for attorneys being allowed in during the search: Lindsey Halligan, attorney for former President Donald Trump, "So I arrived around 11:00 a.m. and there were about 30-40 FBI agents that I saw, either which were wearing suits, the rest were in cargo pants, masks and gloves. And they basically had unfettered access to the property. They refused to talk to me. They refused to let me in. All I knew is that they were searching areas one, two, and three, which I understood to be the former president’s bedroom, his office, and a storage room. And other than that, we were not allowed to talk to them or go inside at all." The only viewing happened only by watching security-cam footage recorded even though the FBI illegally told them to "turn them off." To those who have never seen a CSI show, anyone can plant evidence or act illegally by hiding their actions from any cameras.

Still waiting for anyone to explain why Sandy Berger got a mere slapped-hand for taking documents out of NARA storage hidden in his underwear and socks, yet Trump who worked with them got raided. One thing to remember, requests by NARA were followed. ...And had been for years. All they had to do was ask. Instead, 30-40 SWAT-armed FBI raided MAL and denied witnesses. The idea they weren't cleared for what might be found is spurious because they were read-in to all the documents. What was illegal, was the raiders taking attorney-client privileged material that they admitted taking. Remember, Trump has already said there were no nuclear secrets being stored.

BTW; locations of ABM-sites are well-known. The big secret is where any nuclear-armed subs are holding station - which was never in any old documents. Why the rush? Oh, yes - we are looking at Morrison's advice to use the 14th Amendment to block Trump's reelection.

wmLambert

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Re: Trump looses again
« Reply #234 on: August 14, 2022, 04:41:40 PM »
BTW: Alan Dershowitz specifically stated that the 14tyh Amendment cannot be used to deny the run for President.

msquared

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Re: Trump looses again
« Reply #235 on: August 14, 2022, 04:47:01 PM »
I am talking about a standing order while he was President.  The face that any and every piece of TS/SCI would be declassified when he took it out of the oval office? Doesn't that strike you as dangerous?

What info did Sandy Burger sneak out?  I really do not remember. Was it TS/SCI? But he was caught and he was prosecuted.

As to no one being allowed to watch the search. Again, SOP for the FBI.  Have you been complaining for years about this tactic when it was used against normal people?  I do not remember your saying a word.  And no evidence that they planted anything.  Just speculation on your and Trump's part.

DJQuag

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Re: Trump looses again
« Reply #236 on: August 14, 2022, 05:29:10 PM »
WmLambert -

I'd be more impressed if you had ever, just once, talked about how the way the justice system, from federal to local level, treats people. When it comes to you complaining about just this, just now, makes you look a tad bit myopic. What about the scores of people affected by over eager policing, seems to me you've either been ignoring that or sat silent. And now the Martyr is accused of withholding top secret documents for *a year and a half *, is asked to give them back, refuses, and gets "raided."

Spoiler alert bruh, what they did was go to a judge for a warrant, get it signed, and then went to execute it. Should his attorneys have not been allowed to see the proceedings? I disagree with that part, but it sounds part and parcel for what the FBI and any other law enforcement orginisation does. I can feel sorry for you in the abstract but don't expect me to cry now, not when you and people just like you have been laughing  at people being upset over stuff like this for literal decades.

Tom

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Re: Trump looses again
« Reply #237 on: August 14, 2022, 06:11:51 PM »
Quote
All they had to do was ask.
This is demonstrably false.

DJQuag

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Re: Trump looses again
« Reply #238 on: August 14, 2022, 06:55:50 PM »
Jared Kushner was given $2 billion against professional investment advice.

Guess we better talk more about the laptop, though.

Edit to add -

Pretty obvious Kushner was the one to tell them about the safe. There's a mole, someone had been already set up as the fall guyz and he went talking.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2022, 06:58:15 PM by DJQuag »

msquared

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Re: Trump looses again
« Reply #239 on: August 15, 2022, 09:29:21 AM »
Lindsey Graham is going to have to testify in GA.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/judge-sen-graham-must-testify-125815026.html

msquared

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Re: Trump looses again
« Reply #240 on: August 15, 2022, 01:01:25 PM »
Trump is asking what he can do to turn the heat down on the situation?  Maybe stop attacking the FBI and calling what is happening a scam and politically motivated?  Maybe he can tell his followers that they can work this out in court? That he has nothing to hide and will cooperate fully with the investigation?

Probably not going to see that happen.

rightleft22

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Re: Trump looses again
« Reply #241 on: August 15, 2022, 01:32:24 PM »
Quote
Trump is asking what he can do to turn the heat down on the situation?

He could stand down, retire, keep his mouth shut and not run in 2024. I'd be ok with letting him enjoy what time he has left if he just went away. it would be a positive for the GOP

But theirs just to much money in it for him, each of these self inflicted dramas makes him millions. His drones just can't stop sending him thier money and don't even care when it ends up in his pockets. Its a great scam, I don't see him giving it up.

Wayward Son

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Re: Trump looses again
« Reply #242 on: August 15, 2022, 01:47:29 PM »
Trump may actually be in bigger trouble than we thought, because the NYT reports that one of Trump's lawyers signed a statement certifying that "all material marked as classified" had been returned.

Quote
I would not be surprised if DOJ refuses to pursue charges, regardless of their strength, in the absence of a “plus factor” like obstruction. But that factor might be present here, given recent reports that one of Trump’s lawyers signed a written statement falsely asserting that “all material marked as classified” had been returned to the government. That falsehood might be why an obstruction statute was included in the search warrant executed at Trump’s residence.

That false representation creates potential liability for the lawyer, because lying to the federal government is a crime if it is done knowingly and willfully. DOJ could investigate that lawyer, who could claim that she relied on Trump’s false statements or — if she lied on her own — potentially flip on him. If DOJ can establish that Trump was personally behind efforts to obstruct their investigation, they very well might charge him.

msquared

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Re: Trump looses again
« Reply #243 on: August 15, 2022, 01:53:43 PM »
Again the argument is that the material is not classified since Trump declassified it.  The documents are probably not marked declassified and almost certainly did not follow the correct procedure to be declassified, but Traitor Trump waived his "huge" magic wand and did it anyway. I mean that is the power of the King, oh I mean President.

Tom

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Re: Trump looses again
« Reply #244 on: August 15, 2022, 03:42:48 PM »
Quote
But theirs just to much money in it for him....
I think that's actually the least of his motivations. The legal privileges and immunities enjoyed by a sitting president -- and, arguably, a presidential candidate -- are quite possibly his last recourse, so he needs to run (and probably win) again to avoid having the law come down on him in twenty separate ways like twenty separate tons of bricks. So much of current Republican behavior only makes sense in the context of stalling actions designed as shields from culpability.

Wayward Son

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Re: Trump looses again
« Reply #245 on: August 15, 2022, 03:46:24 PM »
Again the argument is that the material is not classified since Trump declassified it.  The documents are probably not marked declassified and almost certainly did not follow the correct procedure to be declassified, but Traitor Trump waived his "huge" magic wand and did it anyway. I mean that is the power of the King, oh I mean President.

Two problems with that argument:

1.  The statement was "all materials marked as classified."  Even if he had waved his magic wand and suddenly made the papers declassified, they would (and are) still marked as classified, on the title page of the documents and on every page of the documents, at the header or the footer.  So the signed statement is still a lie.

2.  This statement was given after he had returned 15 boxes of classified materials earlier this year.  Why didn't he claim those papers were declassified, too, at the time?  Why is it only now that we hear about his edict that he declassified everything?  Or were those 15 boxes returned earlier this year the ones he took illegally (since they were still classified), but these were OK?  Why return some materials marked classified, and then not mention the ones he declassified that he was keeping? ???

It isn't logical and doesn't pass the smell test.

msquared

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Re: Trump looses again
« Reply #246 on: August 15, 2022, 03:49:51 PM »
Oh I agree it does not pass the smell test, but when has that stopped him and his cronies? Their excuse is that all of the work to declassified is just paper work, so he is not guilty of anything and did nothing wrong or suspicious or questionable.

TheDrake

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Re: Trump looses again
« Reply #247 on: August 15, 2022, 04:34:50 PM »
Meanwhile 2A lunatics are cleaning their weapons to defend this criminal. I'm surprised the Proud Boys haven't started patrols around Mar-A-Lago.

yossarian22c

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Re: Trump looses again
« Reply #248 on: August 15, 2022, 04:41:56 PM »
Meanwhile 2A lunatics are cleaning their weapons to defend this criminal. I'm surprised the Proud Boys haven't started patrols around Mar-A-Lago.

It will be shocking to them when their hero has the police kick them off his private club.

wmLambert

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Re: Trump looses again
« Reply #249 on: August 15, 2022, 04:51:56 PM »
Again the argument is that the material is not classified since Trump declassified it.  The documents are probably not marked declassified and almost certainly did not follow the correct procedure to be declassified, but Traitor Trump waived his "huge" magic wand and did it anyway. I mean that is the power of the King, oh I mean President.

Two problems with that argument:

1.  The statement was "all materials marked as classified."  Even if he had waved his magic wand and suddenly made the papers declassified, they would (and are) still marked as classified, on the title page of the documents and on every page of the documents, at the header or the footer.  So the signed statement is still a lie.

2.  This statement was given after he had returned 15 boxes of classified materials earlier this year.  Why didn't he claim those papers were declassified, too, at the time?  Why is it only now that we hear about his edict that he declassified everything?  Or were those 15 boxes returned earlier this year the ones he took illegally (since they were still classified), but these were OK?  Why return some materials marked classified, and then not mention the ones he declassified that he was keeping? ???

It isn't logical and doesn't pass the smell test.

It is logical, and does pass any smell test. Those 15 boxes of documents were requested by the NARA and Trump handed them over for their benefit as it was his pleasure to do so. As all Presidents, outgoing Presidents hold things for their personal libraries at their convenience. Trump asked his attorneys about the documents a long time ago, and they told him they were not classified. Democrats go beyond that and hide things that may be embarrassing - as Sandy Berger did, because those notes did reveal Clinton lied. I'm sure the normal Clinton response is to destroy embarrassing material and acid-wash hard drives and break phones with hammers to hide what they are afraid of. Then the DOJ  ignored anything beyond slapping hands. Trump never did that and negotiated with NARA. Since there were no earlier subpoenas, this all came out of the blue - without cause. Obama's people routinely ignored subpoenas, laughing at them. Why wasn't Rahm Emmanuel indicted?

The Dems cite precedence and Stare Decicus but only if it benefits them.

As always, the Dems have shot themselves in the feet again. After the MAL-raid fiasco, Trump moved up in the polls another 10 points over DeSantis. the Red Wave is more enthused than ever, and Morrison's urging to use the 14th Amendment to block Trump running is dead in the water.

They are so scared of the November elections that it is spurring absolute half-baked and illogical short-sided strategies.

BTW; any documents marked as "Classified" that are no longer classified no longer fall under any document-handling rules and regulations - short of common-sense storage which Trump followed. Declassified documents are not required to be continually updated forever. There were attorney-client privileged papers seized illegally. Will we see prison time to those responsible? Unlike the moot arguments over what is classified or not, Attorney-client privilege is not in dispute.

What does not pass the smell-test is charging that nuclear site info that was supposedly known about and were not considered important for more than a year suddenly became so important that it could launch an unannounced raid. The NARA had the storage areas locked, and the Secret Service was guarding everything. This was only done for J6 Committee political tactics. It backfired. Trump wins again.