So, how is Uncle Joe working for you?

[noel c.]

I am just dropping in for my occasional check-in at this sounding board for an orientation. There are not enough bonafide Democrats, where I live, who have the temerity to express their opinions in public. When I was here last, the general perception was that an incoming Biden presidency was going to address the following concerns. :

1- A COVID vaccine would be expedited to prevent the deaths of a “cool million” Americans. (per DonaldD).
2- N-95 masks would be abundant, because Democrats, unlike Republicans, don’t like to kill people (a concern for Y-22).
3- Government needed to rigorously enforce COVID containment policies, economic devastation be dammed, to prevent “avoidable” deaths.
4- The hilarious news story of a blind computer technician, who claimed to have an abandoned laptop owned by Hunter Biden, would be discredited as “Russian misinformation” (per virtually all leftists on this forum, taking a cue from Joe).
5- Speaking of Joe, we were not concerned about his age, or that he could not keep his pajamas dry, because Kamala would be waiting in the wings to save the day (per Y-22).
6- America would be safe for Democracy, because Republicans foster an inordinate fear of voter fraud which prevents well meaning, but in-ambulatory, Americans from reaching a ballot box through their own devices.

Take your choice, and bring me current. Out of civic duty, I need to update my understanding of the other half of America.

[Tom]

1- A COVID vaccine was indeed expedited.
2- N-95 masks are abundant and easily available.
3- COVID containment policies were rigorously enforced in some counties, and not as much in others. Federal containment policy was turned into a partisan issue, and soon local containment followed suit. This dramatically reduced the effectiveness of containment attempts.
4- The laptop "story" remains a manufactured scandal that will not gather any actual legal traction, but may play in the House if Republicans are able to regain control of that body and use it to launch frivolous "investigations." It's impossible at this point to confirm anything about the laptop itself, as its data integrity has been hopelessly violated.
5- Biden remains lucid and competent, but like all of our presidents over 70 has been seen wearing an adult diaper occasionally.
6- America is, sadly, not remotely "safe" for "democracy."

[noel c.]

Tom,

“1- A COVID vaccine was indeed expedited.”

By who?

2- “N-95 masks are abundant and easily available.”

Are they more abundant than they were prior to Fall of 2019? Sources?

3- “COVID containment policies were rigorously enforced in some counties, and not as much in others. Federal containment policy was turned into a partisan issue, and soon local containment followed suit. This dramatically reduced the effectiveness of containment attempts.”

Did containment have any effect on total mortality? Sources?

4- “The laptop "story" remains a manufactured scandal that will not gather any actual legal traction, but may play in the House if Republicans are able to regain control of that body and use it to launch frivolous "investigations." It's impossible at this point to confirm anything about the laptop itself, as its data integrity has been hopelessly violated.”

By “manufactured”, you mean false, correct? The FBI has had custody of the hard drive. Are you saying that they faked photos, and text?

5- “Biden remains lucid and competent, but like all of our presidents over 70 has been seen wearing an adult diaper occasionally.”

Check, Biden remains “lucid”. Do you mean lucid in a clinical setting? Would you let him drive your car?

6- “America is, sadly, not remotely "safe" for "democracy." “

Agreed, but why do you think that is the case?

[TheDrake]

1 - Biden administration expedited all the mass innoculation, everyone knew in November that the vaccine existed, but there was no expedited deal in place for delivery.

Speaking February 11 at the National Institutes of Health, President Biden said the federal government has inked a final deal with Moderna and Pfizer for 200 million more doses of their vaccines including a faster delivery timeline than initially expected.

The companies will deliver a 100 million doses each of their vaccines by the end of July, Biden said. They also agreed to expedite delivery of another 100 million doses for delivery by the end of May, instead of June as originally planned.

[noel c.]

Drake,

Yes, “everyone knew in November that the vaccine existed”, but you must recall the derision directed at Trump for neglect prior to that revelation. I believe that you are giving tacit credit to the prior administration for the heavy lifting, correct? Biden could claim “expedite(d) delivery” because Trump gave him something to deliver, right?

You left the other points unaddressed. Was that an oversight?

Other than crippling the commercial supply chain through COVID restrictions, and hiring gun toting IRS agents to finance his green agenda, what do you believe Biden has accomplished?

[msquared]

One you didn't mention.

The Infrastructure deal.  The one the Republicans are campaigning on in their home districts about how much money it will bring their area and how much good the projects will be for the people in that area. Which is also the deal every single one of them voted against. What a bunch of hypocrits.

Also, where has Biden hired gun toting IRS agents? Why do you have a problem with making sure rich Americans pay what they owe? Because that is all that is going to happen. People who pay their taxes properly will not have an issue. Which means that probably more than 75% of Americans will not be affected. Only the rich top percentage of payers, who are not paying what they owe, will have issue. They can avoid this by just paying what they owe and not committing a crime. 

In the famous words of Tucker Carlson and Sean Hannity, just comply.

[TheDrake]

Drake,

Yes, “everyone knew in November that the vaccine existed”, but you must recall the derision directed at Trump for neglect prior to that revelation. I believe that you are giving tacit credit to the prior administration for the heavy lifting, correct? Biden could claim “expedite(d) delivery” because Trump gave him something to deliver, right?

You left the other points unaddressed. Was that an oversight?

Other than crippling the commercial supply chain through COVID restrictions, and hiring gun toting IRS agents to finance his green agenda, what do you believe Biden has accomplished?

I'm not really interested in responding to all the other points, as I don't have anything unique to say on those subjects. The Trump administration and Trump himself downplayed distribution, and their playbook showed that they preferred to leave most things up to the individual states (see ventilator debacle). I suspect that distribution would have been slower and more uneven without Biden in charge of the WH.

[noel c.]

Msquared,

“The Infrastructure deal. The one the Republicans are campaigning on in their home districts about how much money it will bring their area and how much good the projects will be for the people in that area.”

Yes, politicians love pork. Where do you stand on the allocation of defense contracts? :
https://www.defense.gov/News/Contracts/Contract/Article/3109346/

The IRS now has 2,100 agents who carry side arms. They audit low-income taxpayers at the same rate as the top 1%. How many tax agents do you believe should be armed, and how do you define “rich”?

[noel c.]

Drake,

“I suspect that distribution would have been slower and more uneven without Biden in charge of the WH.”

Setting aside the unprecedented speed with which the Trump administration developed two viral vaccines, you “suspect” that we needed Biden to act as the delivery boy? Can you bring yourself to give any credit to Trump? Just curious.

[msquared]

Why bring up Defense. Republicans vote for that.

As to the IRS, I would love to see them audit the rich at a much higher rate, percentage wise, then they do low income.  I mean there is so much more there to find.

And that 1% rate is mainly due to the budget cuts the Republicans have forced on the IRS.

As to the number that have guns, the IRS has over 80,000 employees. That is just 2.5%.  And there is no evidence that more armed employees will be hired, although  I would expect some of the new employees to be armed, say 2.5% of them.

What do you have against the IRS doing its job? Collecting more of the money that is legally owed by taxpayers to the US Government?  If the $80 million will net us $200 million in additional, owed tax revenue, that seems like a good deal.

I pay my local, state and Federal taxes every year. I would probably be considered a high income person (family) due to the family LLC I am a member of.  I have never been audited, probably because we do not tell our accountants to push the limits and try and save a buck. We pay what we legally owe. So I have no worries about armed IRS agents. Why do you have worries?

[msquared]

As to vaccines Trump did what was needed.  However, it would have been done with out him (one of the companies did not take Operation Warp Speed money if I remember correctly).

My belief is that Trump would have held the vaccine over the heads of the Gov. of blue states, sort of like he did when there were national emergencies and he wanted Governors to come beg him for aid.

I do not see Biden making DeSantis come to DC and ask for help. He is just going to send the help.

[Wayward Son]

Noel, I think Stonekettle explained it the best.

Joe Biden is doing precisely what we elected him to do.

That's right.

Joe Biden is doing exactly what he was elected to do. Yes, he is.

Joe Biden is exactly the president we all asked for. Well, most of us anyway.

Joe Biden is exactly the guy the Left wanted.

And Joe Biden is exactly the guy most of the Right wanted, even if they won't say it.

Joe Biden is doing exactly what we elected him to do.



Joe Biden isn't Donald Trump.



That's it, that's the whole thing, right there.

That's what we elected Joe Biden to be. Not Donald Trump.

We no longer have a lying POS as POTUS.  Biden is not a braggart, bully and B.S.er.  He doesn't make headlines every week--excuse me, every day--over the latest outrageous thing he did or said.  He hasn't insulted or pushed-away our allies, but rather has drawn them together to oppose Russia's invasion of Ukraine.  He's made some progress on climate change instead of opposing it.

But the main thing is he hasn't made this country even more polarized than it already was.  Sure, many on the Right try to make him as a polarizing figure, but they would (and do) use anyone as that.  (If you don't think so, name me a Democrat that the Right wouldn't demonize if he or she were President.  )

If you want to know what the Left and the Democrats and most Americans really think of Joe, just keep that in mind.

We elected him not be another Donald J. Trump.

And he has kept that promise in spades. 

[noel c.]

Msquared,

“Why bring up Defense. Republicans vote for that.”

True, but Democrats usually find other priorities, correct? Did you check what states some of the last defense contracts were assigned to? Is that hypocrisy?

“As to vaccines Trump did what was needed. However, it would have been done with out him.”

Just leave it at the first sentence, the rest is your speculation.

“ So I have no worries about armed IRS agents. Why do you have worries?”

One name; Louis Lehrner.

[noel c.]

WS,

“We no longer have a lying POS as POTUS.”

B.S.

“Biden is not a braggart, bully and B.S.er.  He doesn't make headlines every week--excuse me, every day--over the latest outrageous thing he did or said.  He hasn't insulted or pushed-away our allies, but rather has drawn them together to oppose Russia's invasion of Ukraine.  He's made some progress on climate change instead of opposing it.”

… And armed the Taliban to the tune of $85,000,000,000. Yes, that is nine zeros. Tell me, how many degrees has Biden changed the Earth’s average temperature?

“But the main thing is he hasn't made this country even more polarized than it already was.”

All due respect, B.S..

“Sure, many on the Right try to make him as a polarizing figure, but they would (and do) use anyone as that.”

Do you appreciate that, but for Democratically controlled media, Trump would not have prevailed in the Republican presidential primary? He was not in my top ten choices. Your side made my choice for me. Are you going to cry foul when he wins in the next primary, and is democratically re-elected?

[Tom]

noel, please. I responded to your questions because, interestingly enough, they could be answered fully and correctly without actually making the point you thought you were making, and that amused me.

But I'm not under the illusion that you actually want someone to explain to you that, yes, N-95 masks are easier to get now than they were two years ago, or why that might be, or whether or not that had anything to do with the Biden administration. Or that, no, the FBI eventually getting a hard drive does not mean that the contents of the drive had not been tampered with before they received it. Or, y'know, all the other context you're asking for, but which you do not actually want.

I will say that American democracy is not remotely safe, and it is because Republicans have been working since Gingrich to put systems into place that guarantee them control over districting, apportionment, and certification in any competitive states. Speaking as a resident of Wisconsin, this has been an obvious and explicit ploy here for nearly 15 years, where they've worked tirelessly to tear down the safeguards my state had previously erected to ensure free and fair elections. Between this and their determined approach to tearing at the very suppositional foundations of truth -- the idea that truth is in fact knowable and not a product of bias -- I personally believe that anyone who still votes Republican can only do so out of venality, self-interest, celebrity worship, and/or spite.  But your impressions may vary.

[noel c.]

Tom,

I always look forward to your responses.

“noel, please. I responded to your questions because, interestingly enough, they could be answered fully and correctly without actually making the point you thought you were making, and that amused me.”

It appears that fancy yourself a 3D intellect. I do not see the evidence.

“But I'm not under the illusion that you actually want someone to explain to you that, yes, N-95 masks are easier to get now than they were two years ago, or why that might be, or whether or not that had anything to do with the Biden administration.”

Waiting…

“Or that, no, the FBI eventually getting a hard drive does not mean that the contents of the drive had not been tampered with before they received it. Or, y'know, all the other context you're asking for, but which you do not actually want.”

Right, the blind technician created text, and video, that Hunter Biden’s business associate Anthony Bobulinski corroborated, and the FBI is unable to detect tampering. From whence cometh such analytical insight?

“I will say that American democracy is not remotely safe, and it is because Republicans have been working since Gingrich to put systems into place that guarantee them control over districting, apportionment, and certification in any competitive states.”

Democrats do not gerrymander when opportunity presents itself?

“Speaking as a resident of Wisconsin, this has been an obvious and explicit ploy here for nearly 15 years, where they've worked tirelessly to tear down the safeguards my state had previously erected to ensure free and fair elections.”

Do you want me to lecture you on California’s re-districting practices? We were able to elect Governors like Reagan, and George Deukmejian Jr., as recently as 1991.

“Between this and their determined approach to tearing at the very suppositional foundations of truth -- the idea that truth is in fact knowable and not a product of bias -- I personally believe that anyone who still votes Republican can only do so out of venality, self-interest, celebrity worship, and/or spite.  But your impressions may vary.”

Spare me Tom. Sophomoric pontification on truth is uninspiring.

[Tom]

You don't have to be Lindsay Graham, noel. You can stop any time, and I promise you that you'll feel better for it.

[TheDrake]

Drake,

“I suspect that distribution would have been slower and more uneven without Biden in charge of the WH.”

Setting aside the unprecedented speed with which the Trump administration developed two viral vaccines, you “suspect” that we needed Biden to act as the delivery boy? Can you bring yourself to give any credit to Trump? Just curious.

I give credit to trump for at least not inhibiting approval, he was largely neutral which I found baffling. He's never failed to take credit for anything in his life. If he promoted "his own" vaccine half as hard as his personal brand and trump steaks, a lot more of his followers would have taken advantage. Should I admire the server for bringing my food quickly and then not ask me why I haven't touched the meal? And not committing to whether he's ever tasted it?

[msquared]

Noel

Did every single Dem vote against Defense spending?  No, then your point does not make any sense. You are moving the goal posts. Sure some of the more progressive Dems vote against it, or at least the increases the Defense Dept wants, but as a whole they support it.

But every single Republican voted against the Infrastructure bill. And now they are promoting the money it brings them.

As to the vaccine, why should I leave out the second part.  Do you think there would be no vaccine if Trump was not President at the time?  That is a bunch of crap and  you know it. There would have been a vaccine with no government action. It might have taken longer, but it would have happened.

As to the IRS, I know who  Louis Lehrner is.  Did she send armed agents after these groups? And her problem was denying tax exempt status to Tea Party aligned groups, not doing audits or sending armed agents to average tax payers.  You are going to have to do better than that.

[yossarian22c]

...
Do you want me to lecture you on California’s re-districting practices? We were able to elect Governors like Reagan, and George Deukmejian Jr., as recently as 1991.
...

I would be fascinated to hear how California redistricted in such a way to prevent Republican governors.


California does a poor job of maximizing their gerrymandering capabilities. About 47% of registered voters are Democrats, 24% are Republicans, and 23% are independents. With that state wide break down if they drew the most broken gerrymandered districts possible there would be zero Republican representatives from the state of California. As it is they get 11 or about 20% of the seats from California. So California's independent redistricting commission massively favors Republicans. If the state legislatures drew it for maximum party advantage (see Republicans in Wisconsin/NC/Penn) the Republicans would not have representation at the national level from California.

[msquared]

Regan could not be elected dog catcher anywhere in the US today as a Republican, since Trump would call him a RINO.

[yossarian22c]

...

“ So I have no worries about armed IRS agents. Why do you have worries?”

One name; Louis Lehrner.

The right does love to hang onto their fake outrage for years. I bet you're still convinced Obama said people didn't build their own businesses when he was clearly talking about the businesses didn't build the public infrastructure they use.

Her division "targeted" political groups applying for status as non-political groups. And if you read carefully they "targeted" progressive groups as well as tea party groups in their additional scrutiny. And the extent of the targeting was asking the groups to fill out a form detailing their non political status despite their political sounding names. The people forming these groups weren't selected for audits. The groups themselves weren't audited. They were asked for more information to get cleared as a non-political nonprofit.

[wmLambert]

1- A COVID vaccine would be expedited to prevent the deaths of a “cool million” Americans. (per DonaldD).

We now know the CDC requested Big Pharma not to release the finished vaccines before the election, to deny Trump that success. They were ready to announce the readiness, which may have cost many lives as they sat on their hands waiting for the election.

2- N-95 masks would be abundant, because Democrats, unlike Republicans, don’t like to kill people (a concern for Y-22).

Masks are a sore point with many, since the John-Hopkins research has recommended against using them to prevent Covid. At any rate, there appears to have been no lack of them from the beginning.

3- Government needed to rigorously enforce COVID containment policies, economic devastation be dammed, to prevent “avoidable” deaths.

You're correct that containment was enforced with a heavy hand. We all noted that those places who resisted it did better.

4- The hilarious news story of a blind computer technician, who claimed to have an abandoned laptop owned by Hunter Biden, would be discredited as “Russian misinformation” (per virtually all leftists on this forum, taking a cue from Joe).

The FBI knew from the beginning that the laptop was real and exposed the Biden Crime Family. This resistance helped sway the election. The latest polls show that Biden voters said by 17% that they would not have voted for him if they knew the truth. This disinformation also helped when the media ignored the whistleblower Bobulinski who was an eyewitness to the Biden's crimes.

4- Speaking of Joe, we were not concerned about his age, or that he could not keep his pajamas dry, because Kamala would be waiting in the wings to save the day (per Y-22).

Now we know Biden has problems - age related or not. What is worse is the elder abuse from his staff, and habitual lies and plagiarism. Harris a horror and laughing stock.

6- America would be safe for Democracy, because Republicans foster an inordinate fear of voter fraud which prevents well meaning, but in-ambulatory, Americans from reaching a ballot box through their own devices...

The Democrats have no fear of vote-scamming. Their only fear is legislation that may stop their scamming.

I am no Democrat - but neither am I a registered GOP. I calls them as I see them, and all independents are in the same boat.

[wmLambert]

...

“ So I have no worries about armed IRS agents. Why do you have worries?”

One name; Louis Lehrner.

The right does love to hang onto their fake outrage for years. I bet you're still convinced Obama said people didn't build their own businesses when he was clearly talking about the businesses didn't build the public infrastructure they use.

Her division "targeted" political groups applying for status as non-political groups. And if you read carefully they "targeted" progressive groups as well as tea party groups in their additional scrutiny. And the extent of the targeting was asking the groups to fill out a form detailing their non political status despite their political sounding names. The people forming these groups weren't selected for audits. The groups themselves weren't audited. They were asked for more information to get cleared as a non-political nonprofit.

Lois Lerner resigned for cause. She directed the IRS to target tax-exempt GOP groups and a token handful of Democrat groups to stop their influence before the 2012 elections. My Senator, Carl Levin, wrote letters to the IRS instructing them to ramp up inquiries on them. "IRS Acting Commissioner Steven Miller acknowledged in an interview that Senator Levin's effort did, in fact, have an effect on the IRS' internal proceedings." Levin camouflaged his attacks on GOP supportive groups by acting as if Democrat-supportive groups should also be audited.

Barton Hinkle wrote in 2014: "...ince the IRS scandal broke Republicans and their conservative supporters have been looking for the smoking gun that would prove Obama ordered the agency to seek and destroy conservative social-welfare groups. The U.S. has a long and sordid history of presidents trying to sic the IRS on their political foes; that was even one of the charges of impeachment against Richard Nixon.

In this case, however, the GOP's Obama Derangement Syndrome might be pointing it in the wrong direction. Granted, the administration did laughably appoint an Obama campaign donor to investigate whether Obama critics had been treated fairly. But much of the impetus for the IRS' abuse of conservative groups seems to have come from Congress.

That becomes apparent from a complaint filed this month with the Senate's ethics committee by the Center for Competitive Politics. The complaint asks the committee to investigate Sens. Carl Levin, Dick Durbin, Chuck Schumer, Al Franken, and several others for improperly trying to sway IRS deliberations and obtain confidential taxpayer information.

Admittedly, asking the Democrat-controlled committee to investigate Democrats for targeting Republican-leaning groups is a Quixotic pursuit. But Quixotic is not the same as meritless. And the complaint contains mountains of merit.

The complaint details several letters Levin wrote to the IRS in which he insisted that "a message needs to be sent" to social-welfare groups "on an urgent basis," and that the message should make it "crystal clear" they needed to restrict their political activities."

[msquared]

Ok fine, but what does that have to do with "Armed IRS agents" which was what Noel was talking about.  This is a distraction, again, from the claim that the IRS is going to hire tens of thousands of armed IRS agents to go after low and middle class tax payers.

Which is a lie.

[wmLambert]

Ok fine, but what does that have to do with "Armed IRS agents" which was what Noel was talking about.  This is a distraction, again, from the claim that the IRS is going to hire tens of thousands of armed IRS agents to go after low and middle class tax payers.

Which is a lie.

Okay, fine - for sure. Please explain what the armed agents are supposed to do with such firepower. The wealthy have armies of attorneys - but I don't think they have artillery.

[yossarian22c]

Ok fine, but what does that have to do with "Armed IRS agents" which was what Noel was talking about.  This is a distraction, again, from the claim that the IRS is going to hire tens of thousands of armed IRS agents to go after low and middle class tax payers.

Which is a lie.

Okay, fine - for sure. Please explain what the armed agents are supposed to do with such firepower. The wealthy have armies of attorneys - but I don't think they have artillery.

Rarely the IRS arrests people. They would use guns like any other law enforcement agents. Very few of the new IRS employees are going to be armed agents. Most of the new employees are going to be auditors, customer service, or IT professionals.

[msquared]

They probably will need them when you get Soverign Citizens and Libertarians who are of the "All taxes are theft" school who threaten IRS agents when they come to serve them with collection papers.

If you have armed IRS agents at your door you have done more than just have an audit.

[Wayward Son]

I just wish anyone who complained about unlawful IRS audits of non-political conservative groups would also list the names of these supposed non-political conservative groups. 

It's always fun to see people argue that this "Tea Party" group or that "Patriot" group had absolutely nothing to do with politics while also arguing it was only the politically conservative of these groups that were targeted. 

[msquared]

And using Wm logic that once one group is found guilty, by association, all of the other groups are guilty, the fact was that 3 groups had their tax exempt status removed for political activity. So there was fire where there was smoke.

[TheDrake]

I just wish anyone who complained about unlawful IRS audits of non-political conservative groups would also list the names of these supposed non-political conservative groups. 

It's always fun to see people argue that this "Tea Party" group or that "Patriot" group had absolutely nothing to do with politics while also arguing it was only the politically conservative of these groups that were targeted. 

This. They are always careful not to argue that they were not, in fact, political groups. Because it is nakedly obvious that they are.

Trump "charity" is a political advocacy group

In a Washington, D.C., townhouse just blocks from the U.S. Capitol, multiple figures connected to the failed plot to overturn the 2020 election have coalesced around an increasingly influential organization: the nonprofit Conservative Partnership Institute (CPI).

Among those at the center of the group are former White House chief of staff Mark Meadows and former Trump campaign lawyer Cleta Mitchell. Both Meadows and Mitchell have been subpoenaed by a grand jury as part of a Georgia district attorney's investigation into former President Donald Trump's effort to overturn the election.

An NPR review of social media accounts, campaign finance records and leaked audio suggests that CPI may be risking legal trouble as well over its tax-exempt status. Experts in tax law told NPR that the nonprofit group appears to be pushing the boundaries of charity law by closely entwining itself with explicitly Republican and pro-Trump political organizations.

At CPI's event in Pennsylvania, according to leaked audio obtained by the investigative watchdog organization Documented, two RNC "election integrity" officials told the audience about how to enlist in the party's poll watching efforts in the 2022 midterms. Those efforts, they said, could help with the Republicans' election-related legal challenges.

The account for CPI's Election Integrity Network has retweeted the campaign accounts of U.S. Rep. Lauren Boebert, R-Colo., as well as Kari Lake, the Republican candidate for Arizona governor.

Another official CPI Twitter account also promoted an op-ed from its chairman, former Republican Sen. Jim DeMint, about what congressional Republicans should do to win the 2020 election. (DeMint's advice: "be more like Trump.") After NPR contacted CPI for comment and asked about that post, every tweet from CPI from before March 2022 was deleted.

Love to see a member of the Trump Army explain how they think the IRS would be unfair to even review their status.

[cherrypoptart]

We no longer have a lying POS as POTUS.  Biden is not a braggart, bully and B.S.er.

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/list/?category=&ruling=false&speaker=joe-biden

“When President Biden took office … there was no vaccine available.”

“We’re sending back the vast majority of the families that are coming.”

"Al-Qaida is “gone” from Afghanistan."

"If the president had done his job, had done his job from the beginning, all the people would still be alive. All the people. I'm not making this up. Just look at the data."

“I’ve been in and out of Iraq and Afghanistan over 40 times.”

As a youth, “I got arrested” protesting for civil rights.

“I used to drive a tractor trailer … I only did it for part of a summer.”

“You’re a lying dog-faced pony solider.”

------------------------------------------------

Biden is definitely a braggart, bully, BSer, and if Tara Reade's credible sexual assault allegations are true, and if we have to believe women then that would make Biden a rapist. Of course the left has a long history of supporting men with credible accusations of rape against them like Bill Clinton who is still popular.


"He doesn't make headlines every week--excuse me, every day--over the latest outrageous thing he did or said."

Like the U.S. will defend Taiwan militarily, the pandemic is over, the divisive comments he made about MAGA people, gas stations should just lower their gas prices, and on and on with this guy absolutely making headlines over his outrageous remarks that are quickly walked back by his staff because they are so off the rails.


"He hasn't insulted or pushed-away our allies, but rather has drawn them together to oppose Russia's invasion of Ukraine."

He's doing alright on helping Ukraine.

"He's made some progress on climate change instead of opposing it."

"Number one, no more subsidies for fossil fuel industry. No more drilling on federal lands. No more drilling, including offshore. No ability for the oil industry to continue to drill, period, ends, number one." - Joe Biden

So that is fighting climate change. You drop the supply and increase the price which reduces demand and makes people find greener substitutes, car pool more, take mass transit, work from home, or whatever. That's fine. He's protecting the planet and our ability to live on it.

But wait... there's more. So now that there is clearly going to be a political cost he is trying to get gas prices back down again.

Biden Tells Oil Companies ‘Bring Down Prices You’re Charging’

https://news.yahoo.com/biden-tells-oil-companies-bring-233209030.html?spot_im_highlight_immediate=true&spot_im_comment_id=sp_Rba9aFpG_58e15821-8a7d-34d0-b315-c87c67d95a21_c_2FKi5hgfXLfD5V0ergXdwEG9j5c&utm_source=spoitm&utm_medium=spotim_conversation&spot_im_redirect_source=email

By trying to lower the price of fossil fuels Biden is encouraging their greater use and killing hastening the imminent cataclysmic danger of man made global warming


"But the main thing is he hasn't made this country even more polarized than it already was."

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2022/09/05/destroying-democracy-biden-doubles-down-on-maga-republican-criticism-in-labor-day-speech/?sh=71a489b212d5

"Biden has ramped up his criticism of Trump and his followers in recent days, describing the ex-president’s “philosophy” as being “like semi-fascism” in a fundraiser speech on August 25 before his Philadelphia speech Thursday that accused MAGA Republicans of “represent[ing] an extremism that threatens the very foundations of our republic.” “The Republican Party today is dominated, driven, and intimidated by Donald Trump and the MAGA Republicans, and that is a threat to this country,” Biden said, arguing they “do not believe in the rule of law.”

[Tom]

Quick question: are you suggesting that if Biden said that MAGA-heads were just kind, sensible people who deeply respected democracy and just didn't understand the facts of, say, how elections actually work, that they'd stop hanging up "*censored* Brandon" flags?

[msquared]

Noel

How about this.  You find me examples of Democrats who voted against the Defense bill but them campaigned on how much Defense money is coming into their area.  I will match you 3 for 1 Republicans who are doing the same for the Infrastructure bill.

[Wayward Son]

Let's make one thing perfectly clear here, cherry:  Biden was referring to "Ultra MAGAs," not MAGAs in general.

Ultra MAGAs are those who believe that we should not rely on election results if they think they are tainted (without proof) and wish to overturn those results, either by having state governments overturning the results, or Congress not accepting the results, or mobs preventing the certification of the results, or other means of ignoring the vote.  Those who believe, without proof, that the results of the last Presidential election were not correct and Donald Trump actually got more votes (which, by definition, is every person who believes that, since there is no credible proof).  And that they, or anyone, has the right to overrule the election results when there is no credible proof that there were enough questionable votes to change the results.

These people are also known as fascists and traitors.

Biden used the term Ultra MAGAs to distinguish such people from regular Republicans.

Now, if you want to state for the record that you believe these things, then you can take the term Ultra MAGA to heart and be offended.  But then please also get out of my country, because we don't need fascists like you hanging around here trying to overthrow democracy.  We don't want or need people who want to overthrow the will of the people, either through pseudo-legal means or violent means, and make our elections meaningless like some Communist dictatorship or banana republic.  Our officials are elected through votes, and those who don't respect the vote don't respect the United States of America.

Now, if you don't believe these things, you have no reason to be offended, because he wasn't talking about you.  Because while you and I might disagree about a number of things, we both agree that one of the ways to resolve these conflicts is through our votes.

Please do not conflate these two definitions.  Those who believe in the vote and believe we should accept whomever wins should not be confused with Ultra MAGAs, who only believe votes are legitimate if their candidate wins.   Confusing the two divides us, makes people think they are being attacked when they are not.  It gives aid to the traitors in our country.  And you don't want to do that, do you?

So please be careful about how you criticize Biden's Ultra MAGA comments.  You don't want to help destroy our country, do you? 

[cherrypoptart]

Nobody is going to give up Brandoning Biden but Biden said what he said and that makes him what he is. He is a braggart. He bragged about doing things that he didn't do. He's a bully as we've seen in his interactions with the press and people who question him like when he asked a reporter, "Are you a junky?" in response to a question about having taken a cognitive test along with the lying dog-faced pony soldier outburst.

Biden is divisive and by trotting out the semi-fascist bit went Godwin's law on his political opposition and Biden clearly said "Donald Trump and the MAGA Republicans". He's clearly talking about anyone supporting Donald Trump. If Donald Trump is the ultimate ultra-MAGA then what would that make the people who support him? Basically the same as the supporters of Hitler.

So Biden in his own words absolutely is divisive and a braggart, bully and B.S.er who makes headlines all the time saying outrageous things. Biden is Bizarro Trump.

[cherrypoptart]

Whataboutism alert but "those who believe in the vote and believe we should accept whomever wins should not be confused with Ultra MAGAs" would include those who refused to accept the 2016 election that Trump won which includes Hillary Clinton and pretty much every Democrat who tried to nullify that election with the Russian collusion hoax impeachment charade. Democrats just got through four years of not accepting the results of an election and tarnished it and ultimately won the next election through deceit with four years of Russian collusion fraud hype to undermine our democratic process and now they are up in arms with their "methinks thou doth protest too much" outrage about the voter fraud hoax the Republicans are trying to use the exact same way the Democrats used the Russian collusion swindle. It's Bizarro time yet again.

Edited to add:

The both apparently false Russian collusion and voter fraud allegations have one thing in common concerning the people who still take them to heart, and with another Seinfeld reference along with the Bizarro thing: "It's not a lie... if you believe it."

[rightleft22]

Biden is definitely a braggart, bully, BSer, and if Tara Reade's credible sexual assault allegations are true, and if we have to believe women then that would make Biden a rapist. Of course the left has a long history of supporting men with credible accusations of rape against them like Bill Clinton who is still popular.

The point is absurd on multiple levels. Yes it is only the left that has a long history... 

The issue of believing women means that accusations arn't automatically dismissed as often happened in the past.  A man's word being greater then a woman's. When America was Great...
But sure generalize that into a all or nothing to make your lazy meaningless tribal point

[rightleft22]

Whataboutism alert but "those who believe in the vote and believe we should accept whomever wins should not be confused with Ultra MAGAs" would include those who refused to accept the 2016 election that Trump won which includes Hillary Clinton and pretty much every Democrat who tried to nullify that election with the Russian collusion hoax impeachment charade. Democrats just got through four years of not accepting the results of an election and tarnished it and ultimately won the next election through deceit with four years of Russian collusion fraud hype to undermine our democratic process and now they are up in arms with their "methinks thou doth protest too much" outrage about the voter fraud hoax the Republicans are trying to use the exact same way the Democrats used the Russian collusion swindle. It's Bizarro time yet again.

Wow, just wow
Not even close as a example of whataboutism

[Tom]

Two quick points of clarification, cherry:
1) You think Republicans aren't really worried about voter fraud but are just cynically using it to political advantage?
2) You believe Biden crossed a line that no politician should ever cross by equating political opponents to America-hating fascists?

[cherrypoptart]

> You think Republicans aren't really worried about voter fraud but are just cynically using it to political advantage?

Oh Republicans definitely are really worried about voter fraud. The part that gets tricky is how likely or not there was the massive voter fraud we were promised in the last election, enough to make a difference and delegitimize it. The spectrum there goes from the consensus that there was no chance at all of that happening all the way over to the "ultra-MAGA" belief that it definitely happened.

So one interesting thing about what do people really believe and what I think it's likely that they really believe is it may work in much the same way as religion. How many people "REALLY" believe in their religion and how many pretty much just go along with it because it makes their lives a lot easier? No way to really know and perhaps most of the time it's not even a matter of them being cynical so much as them understanding that faith is sometimes tested and therefore essentially they just choose to believe, forcing themselves to say to themselves that they believe, and that's especially true about the massive voter fraud issue because it flies in the face of the broadly, mainstream news accepted evidence but not believing in massive voter fraud just makes life too hard.

I think most really believe it and they aren't the cynical ones but it's just the cynical part of me that imagines the greater reason why they believe compared to the evidence for it is the need for it to give meaning and order to their reality.

I don't know if Biden crossed a line but he was definitely divisive. Even if he was telling the truth he was still divisive. Maybe divisiveness is good but that doesn't make it stop being what it is, which is divisive.

[rightleft22]

I don't know if Biden crossed a line but he was definitely divisive. Even if he was telling the truth he was still divisive. Maybe divisiveness is good but that doesn't make it stop being what it is, which is divisive.

When I read your statement I think, here is a person who like me does not like divisive politics. But then in other posts I hear you defend the divisive politics of your tribe. Then I wonder maybe he really does not believe his tribal politics is divisive in any way. He's not being hypocritical he just see things differently. What is experienced as divisive by some is experienced as truth by others. That it is truth the question of divisiveness isn't important.

Yet I can't help wonder if at some level, in the dark of the night, you 'know' the man you support and stand behind does not disserve your support and is actually undermining the values of which you stand on. That this knowing is so deep that its not that you can't face it but that you must not face it. 

[TheDrake]

Abolitionists were extremely divisive. That didn't make them wrong. Nelson Mandela was divisive. So were all the founding fathers. So it seems silly to point at divisiveness as a negative character trait in a vacuum.

[rightleft22]

Generalizing.
A liberal is expected to be none divisive, to hear out both sides of a issue, be objective... to accept difference. When the  liberal fails to live up to thier values they appear as hypocrites.
The conservative may hear out both sides of a issue, be objective... does not need to accept differences.  The conservative then only appears as hypocritical when the point out the liberal not living up to thier liberal values which the conservative is not burden with. 

Thus it is easier to be conservative then it is to be a liberal from which more is expected.

I know a gross generalization. Yet my own experience has been that it is easier to argue my conservative positions then it is to argue my liberal ones, as it is all to often that I fail to live upto my liberal ones.  It is easier to say no this is how it is, how it always was and should remain then argue for change, doing better then how thing were or are. Just saying that my conservative ego feels offended. that the act of seeing that something could be done better is a accusation against the past and or present. And that my conservative ego does not want to acknowledge might hold some truth.   My liberal ego revels in its superiority over the conservative fear and stuckness.     

[cherrypoptart]

"But the main thing is he hasn't made this country even more polarized than it already was."

I brought up how divisive Biden is in response to this. Biden absolutely has made the country even more polarized than it already was, maybe more polarized than it's been in 50 years. The notion that Biden was going to be some great unifier is now obviously delusional. 

[Tom]

I feel like there were a significant number of Republicans calling for Obama's death and open revolt to "save the country" even before Trump took office. I'm not sure what kind of "unifier" would convince QAnon that, for example, Democrats aren't all pizza-eating pedophiles. 

[msquared]

The extreme right is what is dividing the country.  I am what is now called a RINO and I agreed with Biden. The Trumpist are the ones dividing the country.

[cherrypoptart]

Biden considers himself to have bipartisan support even without a single Republican vote in Congress for his Covid bill.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/white-house-pitches-biden-s-covid-bill-bipartisan-without-republican-n1258349

If there is one Republican anywhere in the world who supports his bill Biden considers that to be bipartisan support.

"WASHINGTON — Three years ago, candidate Joe Biden boldly predicted that once he defeated Donald Trump, Republicans would have an “epiphany,” free themselves from the shackles of the far-right and work cooperatively with Democrats toward consensus.

“The thing that will fundamentally change with Donald Trump out of the White House — not a joke — is you will see an epiphany occur among many of my Republican friends,” Biden said May 14, 2019, on the campaign trail in New Hampshire, adding that Republicans were too "intimidated" by Trump to compromise."

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/joe-biden-went-predicting-republican-epiphany-declaring-war-maga-party-rcna28408

-------------------------------------------------------------

Biden is totally delusional and has been for some time. Biden's idea of compromise is you meet him all the way.

To answer the question, "So, how is Uncle Joe working for you?", Biden is an even bigger disaster than pretty much anyone could have predicted, anyone that is except for Obama who cautioned "Don't underestimate Joe's ability to (expletive) things up." And (expletive) things up he has indeed.

[rightleft22]

How do you measure such a thing as divisiveness, who or what started it, who or what is making it worse?
Is it a hot potato kind of thing? Biden said he wanted a less divisive political climate and hasn't been able to make that happen, so does that mean he now gets to hold the bag for the whole thing?

I never recall Trump stating that he wanted to create a less divisive political climate. Nor do I recall any rally where his speech didn't involve making fun of some group, or that didn't relay creating some group as the other to be feared.     

When was the last time you heard a Republican speech that didn't single out the 'woke' foolishness. Note today the only people who use that word tend to be on the right as it no longer means what it was intended to mean (the left is horrible in choosing words and slogans. When has it not bit them in the ass )

Biden has used divisive language which I regret.
Double dog dare you to acknowledge that Trump engages in divisive language.

[cherrypoptart]

There's no doubt that Trump was divisive. That's not the point. The point is that Biden was supposed to bring us beyond that and he has failed, and it's not just the Republicans' fault either. Biden has demonized and "othered" a large segment of Republicans. Once you start bandying about the word Nazi, that means that you are justified in not compromising. Nobody should compromise with Nazis. Biden never even seriously tried to compromise. There has been zero good faith effort on his part. Biden is a huge disappointment even for the people who already had absurdly low expectations for him. But I'm content that at least there is acknowledgment that Biden isn't a unifier, isn't bringing the country together. Whoever's fault it is, and there is plenty of blame to go around, it hasn't happened, we're not united as a country and things are even worse now than they were the day Biden was sworn in. That's all I ever wanted, an admission of the obvious.