Author Topic: The Santos lesson  (Read 565 times)

msquared

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The Santos lesson
« on: January 11, 2023, 04:21:21 PM »
Calls from inside the Party for Santos to be removed have finally started.

What have we learned from this?

You can do what ever you want, lie to who ever you want to, as long as you do not scam the big money donors.

All that the Party cares about is keeping the big money donors happy.

DJQuag

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Re: The Santos lesson
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2023, 05:11:43 PM »
He's being surprisingly stubborn. Is the vote of one House member valued highly enough that he's willing to put up with all of the scorn? How much is he selling his vote for? God knows his career as a politician is over. He gets these two years, and that's it.

Wayward Son

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Re: The Santos lesson
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2023, 07:07:07 PM »
If he used to pass bad checks, what's a couple of years of scorn to him if he can make a fast buck? ;)

DJQuag

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Re: The Santos lesson
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2023, 04:45:56 PM »
I'm actually kind of legitimately interested. How much is the vote of a congressman worth? Especially in the House, they are only guaranteed for two years. Do you think they get paid off on retainer, like one big sum? Or do they get paid off vote by vote?

msquared

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Re: The Santos lesson
« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2023, 07:21:37 AM »
When asked where the money came from Santos just listed where it did not come from.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/george-santos-repeatedly-ducks-matt-191633766.html

I am sure the Repubilcans are so proud of this guy.  I am suprised that they have not put him in charge of the Ethics Committe.

Tom

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Re: The Santos lesson
« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2023, 09:30:18 AM »
Quote
I am surprised that they have not put him in charge of the Ethics Committee.
According to an unnamed source among House Republicans, this has already happened but is being kept quiet for ultra-important, super-secret reasons of national security.

msquared

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Re: The Santos lesson
« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2023, 11:59:18 AM »
I'm waiting for Santos to tell us his wife is Morgan Fairchild.


msquared

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Re: The Santos lesson
« Reply #8 on: January 16, 2023, 03:27:42 PM »

msquared

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Re: The Santos lesson
« Reply #9 on: January 23, 2023, 04:36:08 PM »
So no comments from Wm or Crunch or Cherry or Serati about this paragon of truthfulness?

TheDrake

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Re: The Santos lesson
« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2023, 05:08:07 PM »
He's secret Antifa on a false flag mission.

msquared

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Re: The Santos lesson
« Reply #11 on: January 25, 2023, 02:25:13 PM »
So the $500,000 loan Santos made to his campaign was not made with personal funds.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/george-santos-admits-500k-personal-215216761.html

So it did not  come from his own money (not a suprise) but he did not list where it came from.

Is this any more obvious that Santos was bought?

msquared

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Re: The Santos lesson
« Reply #12 on: January 26, 2023, 08:24:39 AM »
So Santos keeps lying.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/george-santos-treasurer-says-doesnt-102709807.html

When will the Conservatives here denounce him?

rightleft22

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Re: The Santos lesson
« Reply #13 on: January 26, 2023, 09:28:59 AM »
The RNC can't denounce Santos. At least they don't think they can. It might challenge their shaping of reality and identity. Talk about identity politics. 

msquared

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Re: The Santos lesson
« Reply #14 on: January 27, 2023, 09:10:51 PM »
With out proxy voting Santos will be of no use to McCarthy when he is in jail.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/doj-signals-launch-george-santos-015326473.html


msquared

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Re: The Santos lesson
« Reply #15 on: January 31, 2023, 10:53:19 AM »
Well hopefully this is the first step in Santos being sent packing.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/u-rep-santos-recuse-himself-150838807.html

I am sure all of the RINO MAGA Trumpist will whine about how unfairly he has been treated and what a great loss this is for NY and the country.
Not to mention McCarthy.

rightleft22

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Re: The Santos lesson
« Reply #16 on: January 31, 2023, 01:15:21 PM »
My bet is that the RNC and RINO will say nothing as the process plays out and pretend as if Santos never was.

cherrypoptart

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Re: The Santos lesson
« Reply #17 on: January 31, 2023, 01:37:18 PM »
Gonna give it to you straight about the gay Santos. The main response has to be whataboutism as we see with Coulter's latest column bringing up Joe Biden's penchant for 'creative storytelling' with the backup response being that Republicans don't want to be as homophobic anymore and attacking Santos is blatant homophobia. The left on the other hand has no problem with Biden's lies and any black or gay Republican is a race and orientation traitor, respectively, and all manner of hate and vitriol is to be heaped upon them with extreme prejudice.

Getting down to brass tacks and realpolitik though, if getting rid of Santos means getting a Democrat in his place, that's a total non-starter. The Republicans nowadays have a saying, proven since the party line vote on Obamacare and probably several times since, 'The worst Republican is still better than the best Democrat.' That sentiment is on full display with Santos.

msquared

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Re: The Santos lesson
« Reply #18 on: January 31, 2023, 01:45:26 PM »
So you are saying that courage and honor or dignity or shame have no place in the GOP.  I guess we all knew that. Thanks for making that clear.

A wife abusing pedophile is better than any Dem.

cherrypoptart

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Re: The Santos lesson
« Reply #19 on: January 31, 2023, 01:53:39 PM »
Just because he's gay doesn't necessarily mean he's a pedo. And it doesn't mean he abuses his wife either. I mean there are lines and if he was really a pedo he'd be gone regardless. But apparently and obviously, where ever the line is, all of his lies and frauds haven't managed to cross it yet. So far Santos is way far back behind any lines that Biden crossed long ago and continues to cross every day for lies, deception, fraud, and corruption.

Whataboutism can be a powerful force though. It's interesting that the left would hold the Republicans to higher standards than they hold themselves. Joe Biden was credibly accused of sexual assault and until that moment the refrain was that we believe women. And Joe Biden's collection of lies is prodigious. Joe would have no problem laying his out on the table next to George's and being confident about coming out the winner.

msquared

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Re: The Santos lesson
« Reply #20 on: January 31, 2023, 02:00:19 PM »
Cherry

I was not using Santos as an example of a wife abusing pedophile.  I was using that as an example of what Republicans would accept over a Dem.

I have no problem with him being gay. My problem is that he lies about everything. The fact we have no idea where his campaign money came from is so disturbing it should disqualify him right now.

yossarian22c

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Re: The Santos lesson
« Reply #21 on: January 31, 2023, 02:06:10 PM »
Just because he's gay doesn't necessarily mean he's a pedo.

That's Matt Gaetz.

And the statement was a hypothetical. There is no ethical standard for Republicans as long as they will vote the party line.

Quote
And it doesn't mean he abuses his wife either. I mean there are lines and if he was really a pedo he'd be gone regardless.

Still waiting on them to dump Gaetz.

Quote
But apparently and obviously, where ever the line is, all of his lies and frauds haven't managed to cross it yet. So far Santos is way far back behind any lines that Biden crossed long ago and continues to cross every day for lies, deception, fraud, and corruption.

Santos lied about everything he ever did and will probably be in jail before his term ends. He is a compulsive liar. We've learned he likely committed all kinds of campaign finance fraud. He committed fraud in Brazil. He committed fraud by stealing from homeless vets. Hope he enjoys prison.

Quote
Whataboutism can be a powerful force though.

Yep, if a Democrat jaywalks. Republicans can storm the capital, steal from homeless veterans, etc. Keep the whataboutism juices flowing strong so you don't look too close at your own side. Then take a look at Al Franken and what he got pushed out of the senate for.

rightleft22

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Re: The Santos lesson
« Reply #22 on: January 31, 2023, 02:07:19 PM »
Quote
The worst Republican is still better than the best Democrat.
So even if after the process is complete and its found that Santos broke the law the GOP will not hold him accountable... because the law does not apply to Republicans when Republicans are the good guys and always better then the best democrat.

Are you seriously arguing that of all the things Santos has done real and or imagined that the reasons the GOP will not hold him accountable is because they don't want to be seen as homophobic? Are we even sure if Santos is gay or straight and what does that have to do with anything? (Begs the question:  is a person being homophonic when they argue that they want to appear homophonic?)

Does this line of reasoning worry you in any way?
Is thier any line a Republican politician couldn't cross that would make them worse then the best Democrat?

The GOP loves to talk about slippery slopes and you can't tell me straight faced that you see no issues with this slope that essentially argues that Republican politicians are above the law?
If not again what laws will you hold them accountable for breaking?
« Last Edit: January 31, 2023, 02:10:48 PM by rightleft22 »

msquared

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Re: The Santos lesson
« Reply #23 on: January 31, 2023, 02:16:48 PM »
I guess as long as Santos is in jail he will not be able to proxy vote with the new rules McCarthy put in place. That is already hurting him with the Rep from Florida who fell off a ladder and will be out for a few months.

yossarian22c

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Re: The Santos lesson
« Reply #24 on: January 31, 2023, 02:20:49 PM »
...
Getting down to brass tacks and realpolitik though, if getting rid of Santos means getting a Democrat in his place, that's a total non-starter. The Republicans nowadays have a saying, proven since the party line vote on Obamacare and probably several times since, 'The worst Republican is still better than the best Democrat.' That sentiment is on full display with Santos.

Down this path leads to absolute corruption in Government. If "the worst" Republican is better than any Democrat then it doesn't matter if they were taking bribes, criminals, traitors. As long as they vote for McCarthy for speaker they are better than anyone on the other side of the aisle. Its a bar so low no one can fall under it.

cherrypoptart

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Re: The Santos lesson
« Reply #25 on: January 31, 2023, 02:22:53 PM »
Like I mentioned, this is literally the definition of realpolitik.

realpolitik - a system of politics or principles based on practical rather than moral or ideological considerations.

The determination so far seems to be that the harm in keeping Santos is less than the harm in getting a Democrat to replace him.

And that could change. It looks like a fluid situation.

Honestly, I'm not too worried about it. All of those considerations went out with the baby, the bathwater, and the kitchen sink when Obamacare passed on a party line vote with the individual mandate. You throw in what Biden has done with the absolute chaos on the open border and there is just no possible way that any harm Santos could possibly do either by actions or impingement of the reputation of the party, can add up to the damage that having another Democrat in Congress can do to the country. Democrats made the same Faustian bargain when the elected Joe Biden.

I'm a firm believer in relationship and political reciprocity, in not to my detriment holding myself to higher standards than political adversaries would would use those standards against my party to achieve their own goals while they completely violate them themselves. Biden is a hundred times worse than Santos, at least. I'll worry about Santos when Democrats turn on Biden and remove him from office. Until then, it's just not a big concern. If the powers that be in the Republican Party decide he's a liability and needs to be taken out, then so be it. I won't cry for him, but I'm not going to attack him either. I'll trust leadership to do what's best for America, and that may be forgiveness and rehabilitation, supposedly concepts of merit with the left.


cherrypoptart

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Re: The Santos lesson
« Reply #26 on: January 31, 2023, 02:31:00 PM »
yossarian22c

'Down this path leads to absolute corruption in Government.'

True enough to a greater extent then expressed here because we already have absolute corruption in government. Joe Biden is the definition and epitome of absolute corruption in government.

Santos as corrupt as he may be or is might actually lead in the end to less corruption in government if he opposes the great corrupting influence of the Democrats. Like fighting fire with fire, it's fighting corruption with corruption. And what he's done in the past is in the past. If he does something now that's a different conversation. But if he gets himself on the straight and narrow, becomes a good soldier and follows orders, makes amends for his mistakes, and takes this opportunity to make the country better then maybe he deserves that chance.  And if the leadership turns on him and boots him that's okay too.

Biden's corruption right now is what needs to be stopped. Santos is small potatoes in comparison. Frankly, it's hard to take anyone worried about Santos seriously if they haven't already called for Biden's impeachment.

msquared

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Re: The Santos lesson
« Reply #27 on: January 31, 2023, 02:36:53 PM »
Why hasn't McCarthy or MTG or all of the other RINO MAGA Trumpist called for in Impeachment vote on Biden? Didn't they all promise that was something they were going to do? Like first thing?  I mean his guilt is so obvious to any one and everyone, why not just call the vote right now?

rightleft22

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Re: The Santos lesson
« Reply #28 on: January 31, 2023, 03:04:02 PM »
Quote
Joe Biden is the definition and epitome of absolute corruption in government

I get that you are convinced that that statement is true even if the GOP hasn't been able to prove the case. And I know the only reason the GOP hasn't been able to is that you believe the whole system is corrupt. (except the GOP who you acknowledge are willing to look past the rule of law it its for the greater good. (that line of reasoning could in no way come back to bite the US in the ass)

What troubles me is the GOP reasoning for what qualifies as proof and evidence. I shudder to think what system of rule of law" you would replace the current system with. The end is in the beginning. If you argue that the rule of law does not apply to the 'good' guys then you have no idea what kind of world your willing to create for your tribe to win. Be careful what you wish for history starts now.

I know you, with your being, believe without doubt that that is what the other is already doing and that this gives you permission to do the same... There is no further point to debate. Such reasoning validates itself. You are justified in your righteousness and you don't have to prove it.

So blind to the shadow that you can't see your helping to create the very world you fear already exists.

cherrypoptart

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Re: The Santos lesson
« Reply #29 on: January 31, 2023, 03:10:18 PM »
I'll let the chips fall where they may on the Santos situation. Are conservatives really expected to lead the charge against Santos while the Biden rent and classified documents scandal is right in front of us all waving a big bright red matador's cape?

Tom

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Re: The Santos lesson
« Reply #30 on: January 31, 2023, 03:13:57 PM »
Quote
All of those considerations went out with the baby, the bathwater, and the kitchen sink when Obamacare passed on a party line vote with the individual mandate.
Are you saying that Republicans decided to abandon any questions of principle following the passage of Obamacare? That before then, they were principled, and since then have decided only to pursue power?

msquared

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Re: The Santos lesson
« Reply #31 on: January 31, 2023, 03:15:49 PM »
Biden's documents is not a thing.  Just like Pence's is not a thing.

Trump's is only a thing due to two factors. He refused to return the documents and he annouced the search himself.  If he had just shut up no one probably would have known about it.

But he has to be in the spot light.

rightleft22

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Re: The Santos lesson
« Reply #32 on: January 31, 2023, 03:28:00 PM »
I'll let the chips fall where they may on the Santos situation. Are conservatives really expected to lead the charge against Santos while the Biden rent and classified documents scandal is right in front of us all waving a big bright red matador's cape?

Are you though?
You seem to be using the situation to strengthened your justifications that a bad republican is better then any good democratic which is quite the statement to have been made. 

My own opinion is that the stuff about lying about accomplishments, race, identity are nothing burgers. Santos effectively told both sides, the right and left, what they wanted to hear and the DNC failed big time in its oppositional research. 

The investigations into his elections financing and is necessary and is the current investigations into Biden, Pence, and Trumps handling of classified documentation. That's how the system works and we all ought to wait for the findings to be basing our arguments and excuses or looking the other way until those investigations reach a conclusions.

The best strategy for the GOP is to let the process play out and avoid painting themselves into a corner where they can't hold their members accountable.

Wayward Son

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Re: The Santos lesson
« Reply #33 on: January 31, 2023, 05:08:26 PM »
What you fail to realize, cherry, is that the Democrats have already infiltrated the Republican party.  They have taken over the leadership positions and are directing their members to hate the Democrats in order to foster division in this country, strengthening their power.  Any Republicans who try to point this out or fight against them are labelled RINOs and ejected during the primaries.  They will continue to do this until they have a lock on the party.  Then they can do whatever they want.

They have taught you that the worst Republican is better than the best Democrat in order to blind you to the fact that they are all Democrats.  If you look at them carefully and see which ones value actual truth and facts, and tell it, you might be able to see which is which.  But by just making you hate all Democrats, you'll never see it coming until it is too late.  ;D

yossarian22c

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Re: The Santos lesson
« Reply #34 on: January 31, 2023, 05:09:34 PM »
Biden's documents is not a thing.  Just like Pence's is not a thing.

Trump's is only a thing due to two factors. He refused to return the documents and he annouced the search himself.  If he had just shut up no one probably would have known about it.

But he has to be in the spot light.

Depending on what the documents were the Biden document thing could be a big deal. If it was stuff that was classified just because the government produced the report instead of a journalist then no big deal. If it was secrets that would be highly valuable that couldn't have been in his possession by accident then there needs to be a fuller accounting.

But Cherry compare how Trump was treated vs Biden. Trump was asked for the documents for over a year, including subpoenas and failed to return them. Biden's lawyers found the documents and returned them to the national archives. And it took about 2 weeks for a special prosecutor to be announced for the Biden case vs. 6 months for the Trump case. Biden isn't getting special treatment here. And honestly handed the Republicans something to impeach him for. This is it. They can make their case. Probably the only reason they haven't yet is, they are a disorganized group of children playing at their own power games and TRUMP. Hard to impeach Biden and defend Trump, when on the surface what Trump did looks much worse.

yossarian22c

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Re: The Santos lesson
« Reply #35 on: January 31, 2023, 05:28:48 PM »
...
Getting down to brass tacks and realpolitik though, if getting rid of Santos means getting a Democrat in his place, that's a total non-starter. The Republicans nowadays have a saying, proven since the party line vote on Obamacare and probably several times since,
...

What harm has Obamacare done? It seems to work even without the mandate, people generally like having health insurance. It hasn't taken us further towards single payer or nationalized health care. Even though looking around the rest of the developed world we could probably get the same or better health care for half the cost if we pursued those options.

If your point is that Democrats don't do enough with their power when they have it, point made.

Tom

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Re: The Santos lesson
« Reply #36 on: January 31, 2023, 05:49:45 PM »
I don't think cherry is saying that Obamacare was so harmful that Republicans have now mobilized to ameliorate it. I think he's saying that despite a unified front, the party didn't have enough power to prevent it, and they resolved that this would never happen again.

rightleft22

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Re: The Santos lesson
« Reply #37 on: January 31, 2023, 06:08:47 PM »
I don't think cherry is saying that Obamacare was so harmful that Republicans have now mobilized to ameliorate it. I think he's saying that despite a unified front, the party didn't have enough power to prevent it, and they resolved that this would never happen again.

Resolved that wining trumps values like morals, governance and even the rule of law.  The Ends will justify the Means! Even if Winning means destroying the DNC. And if that means destroying government institutions and the rule of law.... So be it. The GOP will 'fix' whatever they have to break and return to conservatives values after they WIN!  How could that go wrong?

Jan 6 protesters when asked if they would want the same rules of evidence applied to them as they applied in thier determination that the election was stolen. Most would said no... but it didn't matter because they were right so would never have to worry about such rules being applied to them....
« Last Edit: January 31, 2023, 06:12:31 PM by rightleft22 »

msquared

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Re: The Santos lesson
« Reply #38 on: Today at 01:53:34 PM »
Well they are finally starting an ethics probe into Santos in the House.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/u-rep-santos-facing-house-174649839.html

My guess it will take 2 years to conclude.