Author Topic: Trumpian uprising (Read 3009 times)

TheDrake · « **on:** March 19, 2023, 11:51:57 AM »

From the Trump loses thread, I didn't want to flood that one.

Quote

What other options can he have them persue?

What options can he pursue, or what options will he pursue? In other countries facing such a crisis, activists participate in general strikes, halting transportation of goods, or legitimately peaceful protests. All of these were tried in support of Nelson Mandela who was jailed by the apartheid government of South Africa. Trump and his followers would treat Trump's incarceration like he was Nelson Mandela, only obviously also better than that loser - who failed to dominate the whites that oppressed him when he gained power.

Ultimately, those protests turned violent when violent means were used to try to suppress them. Mandela himself eventually came to believe that violent action was the only way to gain freedom. Such a scenario could play out here also.

Quote

For their part, the leaders of the democratic movement needed to reassess their main strategy of mass mobilization, which had been so successful over the previous ten years but now seemed impossible. Although officially banned, the ANC continued to function clandestinely. In the aftermath of the massacre, the young leadership of the ANC began to discuss a new approach to resistance. In 1961, after fierce debates, the democratic movement decided to start a limited armed struggle. Both the PAC and the ANC established armed wings of their organizations. The ANC and its allies formed Umkhonto we Sizwe, “Spear of the Nation,” widely known simply as MK.

MK secretly based its operations at a farm in Rivonia, not far from Johannesburg. Over the next 18 months, a network of MK operatives carried out approximately 200 small attacks on government facilities. The government launched a national manhunt for the leader, Nelson Mandela, who eluded capture for 17 months, until 1962. A year later, nine MK comrades—African, Asian, and white—were arrested at Rivonia. Together with Mandela, they were charged with treason, a capital offense.

The Trumpian militia has already established their base of operations and has been proven multiple times to engage in plots against the legitimate government. Make no mistake, the Trumpians think they are fighting for freedom from oppression, just like those people did. Jailing Trump will be a trigger point for them to decide to engage in guerilla warfare, also known as terrorism. They'll view their captured leader as justification, and they will still revere him as the NRA revered its imprisoned leaders. It won't matter to them that he was imprisoned for many everyday crimes and not because of his political views. They will still view it that way.

Meanwhile Trump, who has been depicted with or as Jesus will become the martyr that Jesus was, and there will be a holy element to their whole view. They will see overthrowing the government as equivalent to defeating the Romans and freeing Christ.

msquared · « **Reply #1 on:** March 20, 2023, 10:30:05 AM »

Well no matter what McCarthy says, he remembers the last time Trump called for his followers to fight and take their country back.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/mccarthy-says-americans-not-protest-023218831.html

Wayward Son · « **Reply #2 on:** March 20, 2023, 01:13:21 PM »

Quote from Tom Nichols in The Atlantic (as quoted by Political Wire):

Quote

Tom Nichols: “Donald Trump threatened to summon a mob—for the second time in two years—to his defense…. The last time he rallied his faithful supporters this way, they stormed the U.S. Capitol, which resulted in death and destruction and many, many prison sentences.”

“Trump himself upped the ante by saying, in effect, that it doesn’t matter what’s in the indictment. Instead, he is warning all of us, point-blank, that he will violate the law if he wants to, and if you don’t like it, you can take it up with the mob that he can summon at will. This is pure authoritarianism, the flex of a would-be American caudillo who is betting that our fear of his goons is greater than our commitment to the rule of law. Once someone like Trump issues that kind of challenge, it doesn’t matter if the indictment is for murder, campaign-finance violations, or mopery with intent to gawk: The issue is whether our legal institutions can be bullied into paralysis.”

Especially salient since he is extremely unlikely to be indicted on Tuesday.

Mynnion · « **Reply #3 on:** March 20, 2023, 01:30:23 PM »

I have mixed feelings on this for two reasons. First, this potential charge seems like Clinton lying about a blow job. I'm just not sure of all the potential crimes that this would be the one that sticks. Second, I can see this as a gift to the GOP controllers who were happy to use Trump but do not want him to run again. Frankly, I am far more scared of DeSantis then I am of Trump at this point.

yossarian22c · « **Reply #4 on:** March 20, 2023, 01:58:01 PM »

Quote from: Mynnion on March 20, 2023, 01:30:23 PM

I have mixed feelings on this for two reasons. First, this potential charge seems like Clinton lying about a blow job. I'm just not sure of all the potential crimes that this would be the one that sticks.
...

Manhatten DA dropped the ball on this one. The business tax fraud charges were much more serious. And its clear that Trump violated many tax laws. Not charging him around those is insane from what we can see in the public domain. The Georgia case is more serious. I hate the Stormy Daniels payoff is the thing they are hitting him with first. The classified documents case is easier. Inviting a riot to the capital is more serious. I'm not a prosecutor but this feels timid and half assed.

The illegal undisclosed self campaign contribution is not a big deal. Unless the money was paid out in a way that violates money laundering and tax laws.

TheDrake · « **Reply #5 on:** March 20, 2023, 02:00:50 PM »

It will be an uphill battle, but I think notably different because other politicians that get caught skirting campaign laws with in kind contributions, favors, and similar things own up to it and take their lumps. So we don't really know how this goes.

yossarian22c · « **Reply #6 on:** March 20, 2023, 02:03:16 PM »

Quote from: Mynnion on March 20, 2023, 01:30:23 PM

... Second, I can see this as a gift to the GOP controllers who were happy to use Trump but do not want him to run again. Frankly, I am far more scared of DeSantis then I am of Trump at this point.

I'm happy with anything that moves Trump off the political stage. It's unlikely they'll find another con man who is as effective about whipping up the people who feed only on right wing news sources as he was. The Trump cult of personality doesn't translate well to others. He couldn't get his people to back Oz in Penn or Walker in Georgia. That doesn't mean DeSantis isn't bad. But bad policies aren't Democracy enders. They're stuff to campaign on in the next election. Another Trump presidency and we'll be lucky to get another real election.

Tom · « **Reply #7 on:** March 20, 2023, 02:13:00 PM »

Quote

I'm not a prosecutor but this feels timid and half assed.

New York prosecutors can only do so much. Many of the more serious charges are federal, and Garland is sitting on his hands.

yossarian22c · « **Reply #8 on:** March 20, 2023, 02:22:33 PM »

Quote from: Tom on March 20, 2023, 02:13:00 PM

Quote
I'm not a prosecutor but this feels timid and half assed.
New York prosecutors can only do so much. Many of the more serious charges are federal, and Garland is sitting on his hands.

The new DA shut down a case serious enough that the two senior prosecutors working on it resigned publicly. Now he's coming back with the weakest charge in the bunch.

Garland moved too slow and who knows why Trump didn't get charged as a co-conspirator when his CFO went down for tax fraud. We'll have to see what Jack Smith does. One can hope, late is better than never.

Wayward Son · « **Reply #9 on:** March 20, 2023, 03:17:04 PM »

We should all remember that Trump hasn't been indicted yet (and it is unlikely he will be tomorrow). So we don't know what he will be charge with, if at all at this time.

I have heard that while the payoff charge is rather difficult to prove, his tax returns are far more serious. He deducted over $400,000 for Cohen's services. If you don't count the $125,000 to Stormy (which wouldn't be deductible), you'd be hard pressed to justify that large a bill from him. So tax fraud may be at the top of the list. The New York Times has an article on further charges that may be made.

So I'd say to not worry about the merits of the case until we know what the case is--or rather, which case(s) it is.

msquared · « **Reply #10 on:** March 20, 2023, 03:24:50 PM »

Just remember that if any of his followers commit any type of violence, it is not his fault. He warned you what they would do.

Mynnion · « **Reply #11 on:** March 20, 2023, 05:37:41 PM »

And if they get violent and get arrested the rest of the Trumpites will scream and blame Antifa or BLM. Kind of like it's OK for a police officer to kill someone if he/she feels in anyway in danger unless those getting killed are breaking down doors at the capital. If I killed a black man doing the same at my house or place of work they'd throw me a parade.

cherrypoptart · « **Reply #12 on:** March 20, 2023, 06:24:00 PM »

I appreciate those on the left who are fair enough that they say as long as any Trump protest-riots are only on par with the length, death and destruction of the Black Lives Matter protest-riots then there isn't really anything to get upset with or complain about. Certainly no need to make a federal case about it. Literally.

As for what Trump supporters should and can realistically do about this, they can just stay home until the next election at which time they get out and vote, straight Republican ticket. For the moment that's still legal. In the meantime when they do go out they can pick and choose the companies they do business with carefully.

TheDrake · « **Reply #13 on:** March 20, 2023, 07:09:03 PM »

Death and destruction. You kill me. Much like the cops and counter protesters did, far more so than anybody who were killed or attacked by the crowds of BLM supporters. Having to dodge cars driven by maniacs who think their inconvenience is reason enough to run down unarmed protesters. I still remember when all those BLM activists stockpiled weapons in the nation's capital. All those protesters that were clamorng to break down the white house fences. Wait, no, that's not right. They were just in the general area when they were assaulted to make way for a photo op, and their weapons were bicycle locks and cans of tuna. Can you point out to me where Joe Biden whipped them into a frenzy, telling them to take their country back?

Tom · « **Reply #14 on:** March 20, 2023, 08:41:02 PM »

Of the 27 people killed during any protest that might be reasonably be considered a "BLM"-adjacent protest following Floyd's death, 22 of them were protesters and two have still not been identified; 12 were killed by police, three were killed by right-wing accelerationists, and another five were killed by counter-protesters.

msquared · « **Reply #15 on:** March 21, 2023, 08:27:14 AM »

So why are Trump's calls for mass protest basically going unheeded? I think Trump thought he would have a huge crowd to support him, just like Jan 6.

But I think he forgot that Jan 6 was a single time and place for his supporters to show up. Where would they show up now? Florida or NY? When should they show up? They are not going to take a week off work if they do not know exactly when he will be arrested? So unless Trump is looking for some sort of nation wide protest, which will dilute the effect of each protest, I think Trump jumped the gun on this.

TheDrake · « **Reply #16 on:** March 21, 2023, 11:06:57 AM »

This is ground work. This is his "stand by" phase, telling his followers to prepare themselves for action, with the trigger point being his actual indictment. If he follows the same playbook, he'll call for a rally a few blocks away from the courthouse that holds his first hearing in an attempt to disrupt lawful proceedings in order to prevent his trial. Presumably prior to his arrival, but who knows, maybe he'll give them a speech before his appointed time to appear in court.

cherrypoptart · « **Reply #17 on:** March 21, 2023, 12:30:34 PM »

When he called for action and protests before and didn't issue pardons at least for all non-violent protesters when he got what he wanted then it calls into question whether or not he has earned future protests.

msquared · « **Reply #18 on:** March 21, 2023, 12:38:36 PM »

Cherry

You got it. He does not care about the people he uses. Especially when they failed to stop Congress. They were a bunch of losers.

rightleft22 · « **Reply #19 on:** March 21, 2023, 01:13:40 PM »

Quote from: msquared on March 21, 2023, 12:38:36 PM

Cherry

You got it. He does not care about the people he uses. Especially when they failed to stop Congress. They were a bunch of losers.

Their is little evidence that Trump is capable of caring about others or defining caring as anything other then in what others can do for him. Yet he has huge support from those that are certain he has their best welfare in mind for all his actions. it boggles the mind especially as Trump does not hide his intentions and how quickly he terns on those that no longer can 'do for him'. He does not deserve the loyalty given him.

cherrypoptart · « **Reply #20 on:** March 21, 2023, 04:42:11 PM »

There's that but there is also the fact that it's clear that any protests will be counter-productive anyway and will be used against conservatives by the media and Democrats. When Democrats protest it's patriotic but when conservatives do it then it's sedition when it involves doubting an election and it's domestic terrorism when it's parents at a PTA meeting. And may as well throw in racist white nationalists too while we're at it.

msquared · « **Reply #21 on:** March 21, 2023, 04:50:57 PM »

Only when they use violence. I have no problems with Trump supporters having a rally that is peacefull. Just don't invite the Proud Boys or the Oathkeepers.

rightleft22 · « **Reply #22 on:** March 21, 2023, 05:21:15 PM »

Quote from: cherrypoptart on March 21, 2023, 04:42:11 PM

There's that but there is also the fact that it's clear that any protests will be counter-productive anyway and will be used against conservatives by the media and Democrats. When Democrats protest it's patriotic but when conservatives do it then it's sedition when it involves doubting an election and it's domestic terrorism when it's parents at a PTA meeting. And may as well throw in racist white nationalists too while we're at it.

That statement is a bit of a over generalization and or projection of tribalism

My observations has been that both the right and left tribalized media condemn and reframe protests to thier own ends. Personally in my opinion the right is far far better at it.

The reframing of the BLM protests has been very effective and dominates the conversation forcing those who want to talk about the issues behind the protests to have to answer the questions raised by that refraining. Same with the Jan 6 protests the rights reframing of the protests though what aboutism and nothing to see here, and oh BLM has effectively ended any real dialog on the matter.

No idea about the PTA meeting yelling nonsense ought to be unacceptable to any person of reason and minimum concept of social civility.

I wonder if you ever wonder enough to ask yourself if you don't often engage in the same rhetoric labeling and ossification as you accuse the democrats as doing? Your not wrong that the left does it but you seem blind to doing it yourself and then getting angry that you can't convince others of your facts are facts?

There is a case to be made that both the far left and right are undermining the ideals of free speech and here it feels to me that the left is doing the most damage to thier causes.

NobleHunter · « **Reply #23 on:** March 21, 2023, 05:37:34 PM »

As always, it's necessary to point out the far left is on twitter but the far right in is Congress.

rightleft22 · « **Reply #24 on:** March 21, 2023, 05:41:51 PM »

Quote

There is a case to be made that both the far left and right are undermining the ideals of free speech and here it feels to me that the left is doing the most damage to thier causes.

Actually I'm not sure - its very confusing to me as the further right or left you go seems to end in the same place - authoritarianism .
I really don't understand what these so very loud minority of voices really hope to create.

rightleft22 · « **Reply #25 on:** March 21, 2023, 05:46:23 PM »

Quote from: NobleHunter on March 21, 2023, 05:37:34 PM

As always, it's necessary to point out the far left is on twitter but the far right in is Congress.

I don't understand twitter or why people would consider anything said on it reliable... I don't understand Congress either.
Nothing really makes sense to me anymore... except non-duality where if you go down that rabbit hole you get to talk yourself out of yourself

and not being is a kinder place.. so it has that

msquared · « **Reply #26 on:** March 21, 2023, 07:57:07 PM »

Well just like his claims of election fraud, Trump was wrong about his being indicted today. Has any one politician been more wrong about more things than Trump?

TheDrake · « **Reply #27 on:** March 21, 2023, 08:41:38 PM »

Quote from: msquared on March 21, 2023, 07:57:07 PM

Well just like his claims of election fraud, Trump was wrong about his being indicted today. Has any one politician been more wrong about more things than Trump?

Mtg

msquared · « **Reply #28 on:** March 23, 2023, 10:29:23 AM »

Well Trump may end up like the End of the World people. He just read the tea leaves wrong and it will be next week when he is arrested.

He has such good sources and advisors.

msquared · « **Reply #29 on:** March 23, 2023, 11:01:51 AM »

Well the House GOP people asking Bragg for info has gotten a response from Bragg.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/manhattan-da-accuses-house-republicans-142000058.html

Basically, keep your nose out.

msquared · « **Reply #30 on:** March 23, 2023, 12:26:12 PM »

Boy is Donald going off the deep end.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-mocks-calls-supporters-stay-150047785.html

All caps.

He makes himself look bad by claiming, as usual with out any facts to back it up, something and when that something does not happen going ballistic.

rightleft22 · « **Reply #31 on:** March 23, 2023, 02:46:01 PM »

Quote

He makes himself look bad by claiming

No idea how anyone was or can continue to be able to look at this man and say yes this guy has got it together. This is a guy I can trust and will follow without question.
No idea how such men get to have the influence they do, how we never seem to learn from history as it comes to such persons.

As each day passes Trump appears to becoming more and more unhinged.

TheDrake · « **Reply #32 on:** March 23, 2023, 05:07:52 PM »

Do you hear the people sing?
Singing the songs of angry Trump
It is the music of the people
Who believe his every word
When the beating of his chest
Echoes the beating of the cops
There is a trial about to start
When tomorrow comes.

Mynnion · « **Reply #33 on:** March 23, 2023, 06:15:46 PM »

Will you give all you can give so his pockets he can line.
Some will be jailed some will not will you attend the next big march.
The blood of police will be spilled on the Capital Steps.....

Tom · « **Reply #34 on:** March 23, 2023, 06:45:40 PM »

Okay, so I appreciate parody as much as the next person, but you have to at least TRY to match the rhyme scheme.

TheDrake · « **Reply #35 on:** March 23, 2023, 07:40:00 PM »

I was concentrating on meter. Plus the original rhymes men with again, which is dubious. I think that's because the original was in French. It was, and it doesn't appear to rhyme at all.

Fenring · « **Reply #36 on:** March 23, 2023, 08:38:11 PM »

Quote from: TheDrake on March 23, 2023, 07:40:00 PM

I was concentrating on meter. Plus the original rhymes men with again, which is dubious. I think that's because the original was in French. It was, and it doesn't appear to rhyme at all.

Men does rhyme with again. Unless you're English and pronounce it a-gain. Also the original French does rhyme, but the rhyming scheme has shifting patterns:

A la volonté du peuple
Et à la santé du progrès, no rhyme
Remplis ton cœur d'un vin rebelle A
Et à demain, ami fidèle. A
Nous voulons faire la lumière B
Malgré le masque de la nuit C
Pour illuminer notre terre B
Et changer la vie. C

Il faut gagner à la guerre A
Notre sillon à labourer, B
Déblayer la misère A
Pour les blonds épis de la paix B
Qui danseront de joie unrhymed
Au grand vent de la liberté. B

cherrypoptart · « **Reply #37 on:** March 24, 2023, 02:06:38 AM »

A man once held high in power and fame
Now finds himself in trouble and shame
With charges mounting, his luck's running thin
And rumors of arrest now loom and spin

He once held rallies with chants so loud
But now he's hiding and feeling cowed
The law will catch up, no matter how far
And bring to justice, this fallen star

The cuffs will click, the doors will close
As justice serves its final blows
No longer will he roam so free
For all his wrongs, he'll pay the fee

The world will watch as justice unfolds
As he's brought down and justice upholds
The lesson clear, for all to see
No one is above the law's decree.

cherrypoptart · « **Reply #38 on:** March 24, 2023, 02:12:09 AM »

Amidst the headlines, chaos and strife,
A story broke that shook up life,
The news resounded loud and clear,
That Donald Trump was now in fear.

He strutted 'round, so bold and brash,
A leader causing immense backlash,
But now he faces charges grave,
Charges for crimes he cannot evade.

He thought he was above the law,
But justice now he cannot stall,
The cuffs go on, the sirens wail,
As Trump's grand facade starts to pale.

The truth has caught up with him fast,
The die is cast, cast at last,
For all the wrongs that he has done,
The law has finally caught the son.

So let us stand and bear witness,
As justice reigns without prejudice,
For those who break the sacred trust,
Must face the reckoning that's just.

Fenring · « **Reply #39 on:** March 24, 2023, 02:35:16 AM »

What act of Les Miz is that from?

cherrypoptart · « **Reply #40 on:** March 24, 2023, 02:44:33 AM »

I should see that but I haven't.

TheDrake · « **Reply #41 on:** March 24, 2023, 09:53:52 AM »

That was pretty good cherry.

msquared · « **Reply #42 on:** March 24, 2023, 10:00:26 AM »

Empty Chairs at Empty Tables from the Original West End Cast is one of my favorite songs from a musical. The kid lamenting, at the bar they hung out at, that all of his friends are dead and he survived.

msquared · « **Reply #43 on:** March 24, 2023, 10:52:20 AM »

Trump is doubling down on calling for violence. He does not explicitly call for violence, but he does not tell his supporters to not be violent. Even after Jan 6.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-turning-heat-raises-specter-133014762.html

He is complicit if there is any violence.

TheDrake · « **Reply #44 on:** March 24, 2023, 12:43:35 PM »

I'm not saying we're gonna break things, I'm saying buggsy over here, well he's clumsy and things might get broken. Buildings catch fire all the time and nobody knows why, but if you give us 100 pounds every week, we'll look after the place for ya.

msquared · « **Reply #45 on:** March 24, 2023, 12:57:14 PM »

Ooops. Was that vase valuable? What a terrible accident. Hate for that to happen more than once.

msquared · « **Reply #46 on:** March 24, 2023, 05:24:10 PM »

She is not a lawyer but she is sure he is breaking the law.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/greene-calls-bragg-arrest-prosecutorial-220616874.html

MTG speaks. Crap comes out.

msquared · « **Reply #47 on:** March 24, 2023, 07:03:25 PM »

I am sure the Trumpist will call this a false flag operation, but I would expect something more sophisticated if you believe how devious the liberals are at planning and getting things done.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/powder-threat-sent-manhattan-da-211545402.html

msquared · « **Reply #48 on:** March 25, 2023, 10:00:02 AM »

Experts say Trumps words would give his supporters an excuse?

https://www.yahoo.com/news/terrorism-experts-trumps-dangerous-rhetoric-190633925.html

Still no comments from the Trumpists on the site in support or comdemnation of Trumps words?

cherrypoptart · « **Reply #49 on:** March 25, 2023, 12:23:37 PM »

Just to be clear, I don't think Trump's as bad as all that but I thought I'd give a turn anyway. Always aim to please.

Here's a more neutral take:

Amidst the crowds and flashing lights,
A figure bold and brash ignites,
With golden hair and tailored suits,
A man who speaks to cheers and hoots.

With words that pierce like sharpened knives,
He captivates with his brash, bold jive,
A leader strong, determined, the cure,
To some cock-sure, to some a boor.

A businessman with savvy skill,
A billionaire who climbed the hill,
He fought and won, and took the prize,
And left his mark upon the skies.

Yet, with all his strength and might,
his tweets and roasts brim with spite,
With words that often stir up hate,
And policies that some berate.

But love him or loathe him still,
He's left his mark upon the hill,
And time alone will truly tell,
If he's remembered best in heaven or hell.