Author Topic: All charges dropped in Freddie Gray case  (Read 6297 times)

ScottF

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All charges dropped in Freddie Gray case
« on: July 27, 2016, 10:24:01 AM »
So another central example of the BLM madness proves false:

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/freddie-gray/bs-md-ci-miller-pretrial-motions-20160727-story.html

Wonder what Marilyn Mosby will have to say this morning. She is being sued by several of the officers are suing her for defamation, which seems entirely reasonable. Will she step down? Be fired?

Fenring

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Re: All charges dropped in Freddie Gray case
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2016, 12:08:25 PM »
Scott, are you quite sure that's the obvious takeaway from the trial result? I remember this incident, and I find it hard to believe there wasn't at the very least gross negligence involved. That being said, one of the three cases resulted in a hung jury, which hardly indicates there was no wrongdoing. The other two were acquitted, but again, I'm not even sure what they based the trial on other than officer testimony since everything occurred in a closed van. The mother of the deceased claims the officers just did the usual thing and backed each other up in court. Is that so hard to believe? I didn't follow the trial at all so I can't really comment on it either way.

scifibum

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Re: All charges dropped in Freddie Gray case
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2016, 12:13:45 PM »
What's your theory, ScottF, that the kid broke his own neck? 

JoshCrow

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Re: All charges dropped in Freddie Gray case
« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2016, 12:55:18 PM »
Fenring says "at least gross negligence", but I would say "at most gross negligence", since there is no reason to believe anybody set out to harm Grey. I suspect that the idea that there was some sort of animus by the officers to cause Grey's death has been fed by certain parties to push their narrative, but frankly I highly doubt it, especially with multiple officers involved on the scene.

Fenring

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Re: All charges dropped in Freddie Gray case
« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2016, 01:02:48 PM »
Fenring says "at least gross negligence", but I would say "at most gross negligence", since there is no reason to believe anybody set out to harm Grey. I suspect that the idea that there was some sort of animus by the officers to cause Grey's death has been fed by certain parties to push their narrative, but frankly I highly doubt it, especially with multiple officers involved on the scene.

One moment, now. I'm not actually claiming they beat him up inside the van, but I leave it open as a possibility. What evidence do you have that this is impossible? When a man's spine severs in a van full of people possibly antagonistic to him, abuse has to be a consideration. It's even possible there was a grey case, where he did something stupid in the van and they overreacted, which would then boil down to the exact details of what happened.

But to be precise I would agree to amend my wording to read as "I find it hard to believe there wasn't some kind of gross negligence, although it might have been something lesser or possibly even worse."

JoshCrow

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Re: All charges dropped in Freddie Gray case
« Reply #5 on: July 27, 2016, 01:08:51 PM »
What evidence do you have that this is impossible?

We're talking about having a legal trial here. Your question, though I'm sure it was an honest one, is not the way the legal system asks questions (thankfully).

Let me be clearer - you are saying "there could have been evidence" and I am saying "there was no evidence, as demonstrated by this legal result". We are not necessarily contradicting each other.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2016, 01:11:11 PM by JoshCrow »

Wayward Son

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Re: All charges dropped in Freddie Gray case
« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2016, 01:14:02 PM »
It is still very troubling that someone, while in police custody and during normal circumstances, dies from a broken neck, and it is determined that no one did anything wrong.

It's like, "Well, we kill a few now and then.  What's the big deal?" :(

NobleHunter

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Re: All charges dropped in Freddie Gray case
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2016, 01:21:16 PM »
WS, the result only determines that it was not provable to a certain standard of evidence or what was provable did not reach a set threshold of wrong.

It is not a declaration that no one did anything wrong.

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there is no reason to believe anybody set out to harm Grey.
While this should be the default position, I'm inclined towards requiring evidence for this statement. I haven't gone looking for it, nor am I asking you to provide it, but I think it's worth pointing out.

JoshCrow

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Re: All charges dropped in Freddie Gray case
« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2016, 01:23:18 PM »
It is still very troubling that someone, while in police custody and during normal circumstances, dies from a broken neck, and it is determined that no one did anything wrong.

It's like, "Well, we kill a few now and then.  What's the big deal?" :(

There are literally millions of arrests every year in the USA, and about 30,000 unintentional deaths in motor vehicles (and a similar amount from unintentional falling). That these could overlap in time - even a few times in a year - isn't impossible. I can agree that Grey should have been seatbelted as standard procedure - but am I ready to crucify an officer because of the outcome? You'll forgive me if I put my pitchfork and torch away. Negligence is in all likelihood the only real case to be made here.

BTW, I ride a public bus on occasion and am bewildered by the lack of seatbelts - and yet nobody is panicked or up in arms about it. I find this very strange!

Fenring

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Re: All charges dropped in Freddie Gray case
« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2016, 01:30:00 PM »
WS, the result only determines that it was not provable to a certain standard of evidence or what was provable did not reach a set threshold of wrong.

This is exactly my point. The result in no way demonstrates the suggestion of wrongdoing was incorrect, nor does it give much indication of what actually happened in the van. Hypothetically, if the officers had decided to conspire to commit perjury, for example, there is literally zero a trial could do to expose this since the entire case probably hinged on the testimony. I assume, in saying this, that the coroner's report revealed nothing conclusive.

JoshCrow, I do not make the claim that murder happened. But it's a very fishy circumstance, and the lack of evidence available for trial only demonstrates the need for cameras on police officers and in the van. It doesn't say that much about what did or didn't happen in the van. But if there wasn't sufficient evidence to know what really happened it hardly seems reasonable to conclude that nothing at all happened.

LetterRip

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Re: All charges dropped in Freddie Gray case
« Reply #10 on: July 27, 2016, 06:07:13 PM »
The evidence suggests the injury was from an unsupported fall.

The unsupported fall was likely that he stood up while the vehicle was moving/turning and was handcuffed.

The officers may have been deliberately accelerating/decelerating and or hard turning to give a 'rough ride'.

Whether he wasn't seatbelted in because the officers didn't want to, or whether he was unseatbelted because he was fighting the officers so much that it would be unsafe to do so, was a key point of dissension.

I'm a bit surprised that they were all cleared, I'm not sure what the exact charges were though (most of the times when I think it was unfair for the defendant to 'get off' the DA refused to file the lesser charges due to overconfidence in getting a guilty verdict on the stronger charges)

cherrypoptart

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Re: All charges dropped in Freddie Gray case
« Reply #11 on: July 28, 2016, 08:22:44 AM »
Didn't Grey have a history of hurting himself while in police custody to gin up lawsuits?

Didn't the other criminal in the van testify that it sounded like Grey was throwing himself around in the back while the ride was smooth?


LetterRip

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Re: All charges dropped in Freddie Gray case
« Reply #12 on: July 28, 2016, 12:06:25 PM »
cherry,

it was reported that he was heard 'banging against the walls' by the other detainee.

Whether he was trying to injure himself as speculated by the detainee, or whether it was from a seizure after injury (as speculated by the medical examiner) is unknown.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/crime/prisoner-in-van-said-freddie-gray-was-banging-against-the-walls-during-ride/2015/04/29/56d7da10-eec6-11e4-8666-a1d756d0218e_story.html

It is true that the individual testified it was a smooth ride, but his testimony is from the time after the injury was believed to occur.

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Attached to the documents released Wednesdaywas a transcript of Allen's taped statement to police the day of the incident. In it, Allen told police that it sounded like Gray "was banging his head against the metal, like he was trying to knock himself out or something."

Allen said he thought there was "a dope fiend" on the other side of the divider purposefully banging his head, four or five times. "It was like — he wasn't doing it hard and [expletive], but he was definitely banging himself in the head. I know he was."

Allen also said that it was a "smooth ride."

In another document, prosecutors say that Allen told them that police found drugs on him, though he would later be released without charges.

From the start, Allen's potential testimony has been viewed as problematic.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/freddie-gray/bs-md-ci-donta-allen-role-20160609-story.html


cherrypoptart

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Re: All charges dropped in Freddie Gray case
« Reply #13 on: July 29, 2016, 08:11:09 AM »
http://www.frontpagemag.com/point/259713/freddie-gray-had-history-injuring-himself-sue-cops-daniel-greenfield

" Remember how Obama and Holder tried to suppress the tape of Michael Brown's violent robbery before his shooting? Here's another problematic little revelation that just had to be covered up.

    The police detectives who investigated the death of Freddie Gray were told that he had a history of participating in "crash-for-cash" schemes — injuring himself in law enforcement settings to collect settlements — but were advised by a state prosecutor not to pursue the information, according to defense attorneys for the six officers charged in Gray's arrest and death.
     
    The defense attorneys said in a court motion Thursday that Assistant State's Attorney Janice Bledsoe told police investigators working the case in its early stages not to "do the defense attorneys' jobs for them" by pursuing information they had about such schemes and evidence that Gray "intentionally injured himself at the Baltimore City Detention Center."

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Trump was right. The next person she should prosecute is herself. We see this all the time. Obama should have already brought this up to BLM and the American public. Why riot and tear part of a city up and hold this guy up as some sort of martyr if he hurt himself in hopes of a taxpayer funded payday? Obama should also have told the truth about what happened in Ferguson and the truth is that BLM is wrong and are a bunch of liars. Hillary is too. And they are engaging in exactly the type of hate speech against the police, encouraging violence and murder, that liberals always freak out about when anyone is even just opposed to gay marriage or points out that we are experiencing a lot of Muslim terrorism. They all need to be ashamed of themselves for continuing to perpetuate these lies. But they have no shame so of course they aren't.

D.W.

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Re: All charges dropped in Freddie Gray case
« Reply #14 on: July 29, 2016, 10:13:34 AM »
When you have an agenda and a POTENTIAL lightning rod presents itself, the tendency is (unfortunately) to pounce while the storm is still raging.  Waiting for facts to emerge and the storm to clear means the lightning rod has lost it's effectiveness. 

It's sad, and it more often than not causes the exact reaction you are having here, but it is predictable.  Our politicians treat us as an uninformed mob with a fleetingly small attention span.  For the most part, they aren't wrong. 

While this has been one of my biggest criticisms of Obama, I don't consider him or BLM to be liars.  Nor do I consider what they are trying to accomplish hate speech against the police or encouraging violence and murder.   

I do agree that when facts that do tarnish or destroy victim narratives come to light they should be acknowledged.  Just because your poster boy is no sainted martyr doesn't mean your cause is flawed.  But... the politicians and the media don't give us any credit.  They believe we only respond to symbols, not reality. 

Maybe they're right.

Pete at Home

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Re: All charges dropped in Freddie Gray case
« Reply #15 on: July 29, 2016, 03:00:08 PM »
A mobocratic prosecutor -- someone willing to sweep facts of an accused person's innocence under the rug -- is far far worse than a garden variety liar, DW. They have whored the basic duty of their office for popularity.

There is no justice without truth.  Any movement for "social justice" founded on lies, misinformation, and obfuscation, looks to me like a bunch of sheetheads in civil libertarians' clothing.

D.W.

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Re: All charges dropped in Freddie Gray case
« Reply #16 on: July 29, 2016, 03:05:23 PM »
I tend to agree, but see little to no evidence that's what happened.

What I see is a rush towards, "THIS IS IT POUNCE!"  Only to find out, it really wasn't the incident which embodies the problem they feel needs solved.  So, they try to either let the whole thing blow over without comment or try to convince us that the message matters not the particulars of THIS incident.

It's opportunism and disingenuous, but not what you are describing.  At least not to me. 

cherrypoptart

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Re: All charges dropped in Freddie Gray case
« Reply #17 on: August 02, 2016, 09:49:48 AM »
This is basically what many of us have been saying. It's good to see someone with the ability to do something about it thinking along the same lines.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/08/01/law-professor-goes-after-maryland-prosecutor-for-freddie-gray-case.html


By Perry Chiaramonte Published August 01, 2016 FoxNews.com

Baltimore State's Attorney Marilyn Mosby could face the same fallout from the Freddie Gray case as prosecutor Michael Nifong did after the Duke lacrosse case in 2006. (L- Reuters, R- AP)

"A law professor with a history of taking prosecutors to task has set his sights on the Baltimore state’s attorney, who failed in her bid to put six cops in prison in connection with the racially-charged death of Freddie Gray.

George Washington University law professor John Banzhaf has filed complaints against Marilyn Mosby with the Attorney Grievance Commission of Maryland. He alleges Mosby and two deputies committed ethics violations, used “fraudulent or misleading tactics," withheld evidence from the defense and brought charges without probable cause against the Baltimore police officers involved in the April 12, 2015 arrest of Gray, who died of injuries suffered inside a police van...

...In the complaint, Banzhaf alleges that Mosby violated state rules of professional conduct for attorneys. He also alleged that Mosby violated rules of conduct with public statements about the case...

...Banzhaf says that he sees similarities between Nifong’s conduct and Mosby’s, and that her career may see the same fate.

“Both of them violated rights of the defendants by not providing exculpatory evidence [to the defense],” he said..."

TheDrake

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Re: All charges dropped in Freddie Gray case
« Reply #18 on: August 03, 2016, 12:29:53 PM »
BTW, I ride a public bus on occasion and am bewildered by the lack of seatbelts - and yet nobody is panicked or up in arms about it. I find this very strange!

Never mind seatbelts, there's plenty of standing on buses holding a strap or bar. Part of the reason it doesn't matter much is momentum. A bus is unlikely to be pushed violently even if struck by a passenger vehicle. It would have to be truck vs bus or something else. You are unlikely to be propelled into a steering column or window. Buses also aren't usually going particularly fast.

NobleHunter

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Re: All charges dropped in Freddie Gray case
« Reply #19 on: August 03, 2016, 12:47:17 PM »
Buses aren't rated for shock loads on passengers?  :P

Part of the reasons these protests take place seems to be that police shootings (or deaths in custody) get brushed off as business as usual. That if no one makes a fuss then the issue of charges is never seriously considered. Sometimes justice is saying "the cop didn't break the law, we're not going to charge him" but that's more than when nothing is said at all. If nothing else, a refusal to place charges can emphasize were the law is deficient (see Germany's law on sexual assault).

TheDeamon

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Re: All charges dropped in Freddie Gray case
« Reply #20 on: August 03, 2016, 07:34:55 PM »
New motor coaches are required to have seatbelts on every seat, and there was talk at one point about installing sensors to detect unbelted passengers and requiring them to be belted in order to operate the bus. I don't think it's become that restrictive yet.

Metro transit busses seem to be another matter entirely.

But the point stands that due to size and other considerations, rapid movements/changes in direction of travel in a bus is far less likely than in a small vehicle. The only things that can stop a full size bus cold is another bus, commercial truck, or fixed structure, and those kind of events are comparatively rare to other accidents.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2016, 07:38:40 PM by TheDeamon »

Crunch

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Re: All charges dropped in Freddie Gray case
« Reply #21 on: January 14, 2022, 11:28:15 AM »
This is basically what many of us have been saying. It's good to see someone with the ability to do something about it thinking along the same lines.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/08/01/law-professor-goes-after-maryland-prosecutor-for-freddie-gray-case.html


By Perry Chiaramonte Published August 01, 2016 FoxNews.com

Baltimore State's Attorney Marilyn Mosby could face the same fallout from the Freddie Gray case as prosecutor Michael Nifong did after the Duke lacrosse case in 2006. (L- Reuters, R- AP)

"A law professor with a history of taking prosecutors to task has set his sights on the Baltimore state’s attorney, who failed in her bid to put six cops in prison in connection with the racially-charged death of Freddie Gray.

George Washington University law professor John Banzhaf has filed complaints against Marilyn Mosby with the Attorney Grievance Commission of Maryland. He alleges Mosby and two deputies committed ethics violations, used “fraudulent or misleading tactics," withheld evidence from the defense and brought charges without probable cause against the Baltimore police officers involved in the April 12, 2015 arrest of Gray, who died of injuries suffered inside a police van...

...In the complaint, Banzhaf alleges that Mosby violated state rules of professional conduct for attorneys. He also alleged that Mosby violated rules of conduct with public statements about the case...

...Banzhaf says that he sees similarities between Nifong’s conduct and Mosby’s, and that her career may see the same fate.

“Both of them violated rights of the defendants by not providing exculpatory evidence [to the defense],” he said..."

Mosby is back in the news ...

Marilyn Mosby indicted for lying to get Covid cash, buying Florida vacation homes, despite $247k salary

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On Tuesday, Department of Justice (DOJ) prosecutors indicted Baltimore City State’s Attorney Marilyn Mosby on charges of perjury and making false statements as per a series of unethical financial crimes she’d committed.

A press release from the DOJ notes that her alleged crime spree began in May of 2020, when she claimed to have “experienced adverse financial consequences from the Coronavirus as a result of being quarantined, furloughed, or laid off; having reduced work hours; being unable to work due to lack of childcare; or the closing or reduction of hours of a business she owned or operated.”

This claim allowed her to prematurely withdraw money from her city retirement account. She reportedly withdrew $40,000 at the time and another $50,000 in December of that year.

She withdrew the money despite not suffering “any such financial hardships,” according to the DOJ, which points out that she “received her full gross salary of $247,955.58 from January 1, 2020 through December 29, 2020, in bi-weekly gross pay direct deposits of $9,183.54.”

But wait, there's more:
Quote
The Democrat prosecutor’s alleged crime spree continued with her making false statements “in applications for a $490,500 mortgage to purchase a home in Kissimmee, Florida and for a $428,400 mortgage to purchase a condominium in Long Boat Key, Florida,” the DOJ’s press release states.

On both applications, she wrote “no” in response to a question about whether she was “presently delinquent or in default on any Federal debt.”

Yet according to the DOJ, she had so much “unpaid federal taxes from a number of previous years” that in March of that year the Internal Revenue Service “had placed a lien against all property and rights to property belonging to Mosby and her husband.”

We seem to always be finding out that these types of people make and enforce laws on others yet exempt themselves from it.

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The DOJ notes that if convicted, the Democrat prosecutor would face “a maximum sentence of five years in federal prison for each of two counts of perjury and a maximum of 30 years in federal prison for each of two counts of making false mortgage applications.”

That's 80 years total that she's looking at. I think 20 would be reasonable.

Grant

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Re: All charges dropped in Freddie Gray case
« Reply #22 on: January 14, 2022, 11:56:11 AM »

Marilyn Mosby indicted for lying to get Covid cash, buying Florida vacation homes, despite $247k salary


Crunch, do you ever read any news sources that come even remotely close to being non-biased?  You know, the WSJ, AP, or Reuters?  The Beeb?  It might be good for you to get out of the hyper partisan area. 

alai

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Re: All charges dropped in Freddie Gray case
« Reply #23 on: January 14, 2022, 01:58:42 PM »
Crunch, do you ever read any news sources that come even remotely close to being non-biased?
Sure they do.  Their prejudices agree exactly with their own!

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You know, the WSJ, AP, or Reuters?  The Beeb?
Communists all.  I mean, AP and Reuters even dared to try to debunk Robert Malone, at which another poster "literally" laughed.  Couldn't possibly read those!

Wayward Son

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Re: All charges dropped in Freddie Gray case
« Reply #24 on: January 14, 2022, 05:49:13 PM »
Well, I did do a quick check, and the story is being reported by regular news sources: NPR, the Baltimore Sun, CBS Baltimore.

Of course, that doesn't make Crunch post any less of a meaningless ad hominem attack.  ;D

TheDrake

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Re: All charges dropped in Freddie Gray case
« Reply #25 on: January 14, 2022, 06:08:22 PM »
I'm not sure what that point is. Somebody who filed charges that you thought were appropriate turned out to have committed fraud in a personal matter?

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A far-left Maryland prosecutor infamous for going soft on crime and trying to railroad the police officers involved in the death of criminal suspect Freddie Gray has found herself on the other side of the law.

Meanwhile, when did conservatives get so interested in tax avoidance, tax evasion, and overestimating property value? Isn't that what a certain MAGA leader is getting indicted for also?