Author Topic: Hell bent on the Caliphate  (Read 16028 times)

OrneryMod

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Hell bent on the Caliphate
« on: December 12, 2015, 12:17:37 AM »

Pete at Home

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Re: Hell bent on the Caliphate
« Reply #1 on: December 21, 2015, 08:39:51 PM »
Drake's analogy isn't bad of IRA(s) to Catholics in Northern Ireland.  But it's only when the proportion of Muslims to non-Muslims in Western countries approaches the proportion of Catholics to Protestants in Northern Ireland, that Caliphaters such as DAESH boko haram and Al Qaeda can start to operate like the IRA in Ireland, like the KLA in Kosovo, Hamas in Palestine, Hezbollah in Lebanon, or Black Lives Matter in Baltimore.  (Fortunately the latter isn't as successful as DAESH at burning Arabs alive).

DJQuag

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Re: Hell bent on the Caliphate
« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2015, 05:26:57 AM »
Pete, I enjoy poking SJW's as much as the next guy, but don't you think lumping BLM with the IRA and those other groups is a bit ridiculous?

Pete at Home

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Re: Hell bent on the Caliphate
« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2015, 07:47:27 AM »
after they tried to burn an Arab man alive in Baltimore, I guess comparison with DAESH and KKK seems apt. Hate groups that burn people alive.  It flows naturally from groups that generate shrill blood libels in order to make a group feel victimized.  I knew that mob murder was not far behind but was shocked when they elected a public burning like DAESH and the KKK.

I can guess who reported my opinion as a moderator incident. What are SJWs?

BTW, over one seventh of the so called "unarmed" black men that BLM claims, we're shot while struggling with a police officer for a gun.
 Blood libels incite violence.

Pyrtolin

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Re: Hell bent on the Caliphate
« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2015, 03:50:03 PM »
after they tried to burn an Arab man alive in Baltimore, I guess comparison with DAESH and KKK seems apt. Hate groups that burn people alive.
So any random rioter that you want can represents an entire movement that happens to have commentary on the issue that the riot was over?

DJQuag

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Re: Hell bent on the Caliphate
« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2015, 04:48:21 PM »
I just offered my own opinion,  Pete.  It has to be an extreme for me to whistle a post. I'm normally the very last person to do so.

SJW is short term for social justice warrior. Basically, the type of progressive who tries to achieve their goals by making straight people, white people, males, and most especially all three feel guilty for what they are, even if they themselves have never done a thing to hurt a minority.

Pyrtolin

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Re: Hell bent on the Caliphate
« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2015, 06:10:26 PM »
SJW is short term for social justice warrior. Basically, the type of progressive who tries to achieve their goals by making straight people, white people, males, and most especially all three feel guilty for what they are, even if they themselves have never done a thing to hurt a minority.
Or, more accurately, a term that was created to make that false accusation and serves to distract from the actual points that are being made in favor of derailing conversations about real issues to instead focus on the discomfort that straight white males feel in the face of threats to their favored position in the status quo, ensuring that they can at least remain the center of attention.

DJQuag

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Re: Hell bent on the Caliphate
« Reply #7 on: December 22, 2015, 06:16:00 PM »
Exhibit A.

Seriati

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Re: Hell bent on the Caliphate
« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2015, 06:31:22 PM »
Lol DJ.

Pyrtolin

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Re: Hell bent on the Caliphate
« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2015, 06:36:07 PM »
Exhibit A.
Indeed. If you're feeling guilty because someone points out that you made a false accusation, it's exceptionally misleading to suggest that point out the truth is an attempt to make you feel guilty. (And more than a bit self centered to think that someone is out there actually spending cycles _trying_ to dress up and attempt make you feel guilty as a factual argument.)

Pete at Home

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Re: Hell bent on the Caliphate
« Reply #10 on: December 22, 2015, 06:47:57 PM »
I just offered my own opinion,  Pete.  It has to be an extreme for me to whistle a post. I'm normally the very last person to do so.

SJW is short term for social justice warrior.

First of all, I apologize for my error. No one flagged the post AFAIK. That was a misreading on my part.

Second, even when I thought someone had flagged it, I never suspected you, DJ Q.

Third, thanks for teaching me the funny new term.

If SJWs want to keep focus on the problems they are describing then they should confine themselves to specific and accurate statements.  Pyr continually makes broad ludicrous assertions that open questions that reach far beyond the scope of the discussion, then blames others for falsifying his claims.

Greg Davidson

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Re: Hell bent on the Caliphate
« Reply #11 on: December 23, 2015, 08:11:22 PM »
That's not my experience with Pyr.

Should we start keeping statistics on these things? How many unsubstantiated assertions that later are proven to be false? 

AI Wessex

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Re: Hell bent on the Caliphate
« Reply #12 on: December 24, 2015, 08:34:19 AM »
Exhibit A.
Indeed. If you're feeling guilty because someone points out that you made a false accusation, it's exceptionally misleading to suggest that point out the truth is an attempt to make you feel guilty. (And more than a bit self centered to think that someone is out there actually spending cycles _trying_ to dress up and attempt make you feel guilty as a factual argument.)

Which is why I pointed out that some conservatives hate the ACLU more than any other group.  They say the ACLU isn't really fighting for the civil rights of those they defend, but is covertly fighting to strip others of their right to deny those rights.  SJW is not a term that those who fight for their own rights or the rights of others like them would apply to themselves.  It's a dismissive way to claim there is yet another "war" against ordinary Americans and that they and other people like them are under attack for no reason.  Happy Holidays!

Pyrtolin

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Re: Hell bent on the Caliphate
« Reply #13 on: December 24, 2015, 12:55:07 PM »
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Social_justice_warrior

Has a good, if somewhat snarky look at the history of the term as a pejorative

Pete at Home

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Re: Hell bent on the Caliphate
« Reply #14 on: December 24, 2015, 01:21:37 PM »
That's not my experience with Pyr.

Should we start keeping statistics on these things? How many unsubstantiated assertions that later are proven to be false?

Nice dodge, Greg. Everyone makes mistakes.  My complaint was that when caught in a false statement Pyr blames others for taking his false remarks "out of context." According to Pyr, it's not his fault that he said something sweepingly untrue; it's my fault for focusing on the points that made him wrong. 

Pete at Home

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Re: Hell bent on the Caliphate
« Reply #15 on: December 24, 2015, 01:29:42 PM »
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Social_justice_warrior

Has a good, if somewhat snarky look at the history of the term as a pejorative

This definition, pejorative or not, is a legitimate criticism of your arguments here:

A pejorative term for an individual who repeatedly and vehemently engages in arguments on social justice on the Internet, often in a shallow or not well thought out way

You aren't a fool, Pyr, but you don't always think out your pronouncements and the result is often annoying.  If you ALWAYS wrote that way (like our poor old friend Eddie Whiteshoes)  I would take you less seriously and just laugh at your excesses but your moments of lucidity and occasionally thought provoking arguments  motivate me to engage you.

Pete at Home

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Re: Hell bent on the Caliphate
« Reply #16 on: December 24, 2015, 01:38:13 PM »
But because the term SJW includes an element of vanity, ie the SJW does his stuff to make himself look good rather than out of any actual sympathy ... I don't think that fits.  You seem more driven by anger, though, which is closer to pride than it is to sympathy.  The whole class based righteousness argument seems as sociopathic as the tightwad one, ultimately devoid of sympathy for individuals.
E.g.
Sjw: she says you raped her last Thursday night.
Accused: I didn't. I was on the airplane from Delhi to San Francisco. Look, here are my airplane ticket stubs.
SJW: stop making this about you. She's the one that was raped.


AI Wessex

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Re: Hell bent on the Caliphate
« Reply #17 on: December 24, 2015, 01:43:19 PM »
Quote
Pete: A pejorative term for an individual who repeatedly and vehemently engages in arguments on social justice on the Internet, often in a shallow or not well thought out way
Odd, I find Pyrtolin to be the most thoughtful, persistent and patient poster here.  That's not to say I understand every facet of his arguments, but that doesn't mean he isn't clear and I'm not the one lacking insight.  Contrast that with your style, as you love to make little incendiary comments hoping to provoke and get very defensive about perceived slights tossed in your direction.
Quote
But because the term SJW includes an element of vanity, ie the SJW does his stuff to make himself look good rather than out of any actual sympathy ... I don't think that fits.  You seem more driven by anger, though, which is closer to pride than it is to sympathy.  The whole class based righteousness argument seems as sociopathic as the tightwad one, ultimately devoid of sympathy for individuals.
E.g.
Sjw: she says you raped her last Thursday night.
Accused: I didn't. I was on the airplane from Delhi to San Francisco. Look, here are my airplane ticket stubs.
SJW: stop making this about you. She's the one that was raped.
Geez, that is incredibly shallow.  You can do better.

Pete at Home

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Re: Hell bent on the Caliphate
« Reply #18 on: December 24, 2015, 03:01:35 PM »
Then there is Al, who just pulls random attack words out of a hat and tosses them without regard to applicability.


Quote from: AI Wessex
Geez, that is incredibly shallow.  You can do better.

It's like arguing with an 8-ball.

Al, Your praise of Pyr, whether accurate or not, does not address or respond to my very specific constructive criticism of his argument method. Yes, Pyr is certainly more earnest than you and less malicious as well, and I am pleased that you value that in him. But what I said is nevertheless true. Pyr makes broad ludicrously overreaching assertions, and when proved wrong by counterexample, cries he has been taken out of context. 


Greg Davidson

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Re: Hell bent on the Caliphate
« Reply #19 on: December 24, 2015, 03:32:40 PM »
 
Quote
My complaint was that when caught in a false statement Pyr blames others for taking his false remarks "out of context."

I would be far happier with the level of discussion on this forum if every time I identified what appeared to be a false statement, I got a clarification that modified or reinterpreted the original statement to be more in line with what we have established to be the truth. So the behavior that you are asserting the Pyr demonstrates is actually a higher level of responsiveness than what I encounter all to frequently here.

Pete at Home

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Re: Hell bent on the Caliphate
« Reply #20 on: December 24, 2015, 04:29:22 PM »
"
I would be far happier with the level of discussion on this forum if every time I identified what appeared to be a false statement, I got a clarification that modified or reinterpreted the original statement to be more in line with what we have established to be the truth"

So would I. If Pyr did what you just described, I would be quite pleased. While you and Al make sweeping and somewhat unfair dismissals of my entire participation, my criticism of Pyr's defensive generalization is measured, specific and constructive.  (Much like most criticisms that Sci-fi occasionally makes to me.) 

Pete at Home

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Re: Hell bent on the Caliphate
« Reply #21 on: December 24, 2015, 04:33:46 PM »
"So the behavior that you are asserting the Pyr demonstrates "

Like your other responses here, that one shows you neither understood nor care to understand what I said.  Unfortunately this is how Clintonistas get as we grow closer to elections.  Your candidate does not sit well with your conscience and you take it out on the rest of the world.  Sanders people are much easier to talk to.

DJQuag

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Re: Hell bent on the Caliphate
« Reply #22 on: December 24, 2015, 04:43:27 PM »
Quote
My complaint was that when caught in a false statement Pyr blames others for taking his false remarks "out of context."
I would be far happier with the level of discussion on this forum if every time I identified what appeared to be a false statement, I got a clarification that modified or reinterpreted the original statement to be more in line with what we have established to be the truth. So the behavior that you are asserting the Pyr demonstrates is actually a higher level of responsiveness than what I encounter all to frequently here.

Greg Davidson, what's the end goal here? These people will say the words you want them to say, or they won't. At the end of the day, we're supposed to be arguing for and against ideas, not people.

ETA-Clarification. Referring to you being upset about some people not admitting when they're wrong.

DJQuag

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Re: Hell bent on the Caliphate
« Reply #23 on: December 24, 2015, 05:09:06 PM »
Pete, here's a much better example.

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/dem-rep-on-campus-rape-better-to-expel-more-students-even-if-80-are-innocent/

An SJW would accuse someone who disagreed with the Congressman of needing to check their privilege or similar nonsense. The especially cute ones who say that you're okay with or don't care about rape.

Pete at Home

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Re: Hell bent on the Caliphate
« Reply #24 on: December 24, 2015, 05:45:47 PM »
Yes, DJQ. 'The "don't make this about you' that Al, in a burst of shallowness called "shallow" was an actual quote from a message I had witnessed just yesterday.  A woman who was accused of witnessing and doing nothing about a rape, offered proof that she had not been there, and was told on her own blog "don't make this about yourself." The Social Justice scene has created this knee jerk vocabulary that people apply sociopath I call you, without thinking. They make it evil to even present evidence of innocence.  The Spanish Inquisition would have blushed at their logic.

AI Wessex

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Re: Hell bent on the Caliphate
« Reply #25 on: December 25, 2015, 05:26:34 AM »
DJ's link was truly awful, but the Congressman had at least a modicum of good sense to apologize.

Quote
'The "don't make this about you' that Al, in a burst of shallowness called "shallow" was an actual quote from a message I had witnessed just yesterday.  A woman who was accused of witnessing and doing nothing about a rape, offered proof that she had not been there, and was told on her own blog "don't make this about yourself." The Social Justice scene has created this knee jerk vocabulary that people apply sociopath I call you, without thinking. They make it evil to even present evidence of innocence.  The Spanish Inquisition would have blushed at their logic.

If this happened it is another example of the one in a thousand rule.  It's not helpful to demonize an entire group with a pejorative label and then defend the use of the label by finding a lone outlying anecdotal example.  That's what I don't like about how you post, nor how you double down by accusing me (and others) for pointing that out on occasion.

AI Wessex

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Re: Hell bent on the Caliphate
« Reply #26 on: December 25, 2015, 05:40:03 AM »
Too late to modify my last post:

Quote
DJQuag: An SJW would accuse someone who disagreed with the Congressman of needing to check their privilege or similar nonsense. The especially cute ones who say that you're okay with or don't care about rape.

He apologized because he got pushback from a variety of people.  How would you tell the difference between one of his offended constituents and an SJW in this case?  Would you have to investigate their 1A speaking habits to do that, and what would be the criteria to make the determination?  Would the rebuke be less valid if it came from an SJW?

Pete at Home

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Re: Hell bent on the Caliphate
« Reply #27 on: December 25, 2015, 01:57:16 PM »
Yes, DJQ. 'The "don't make this about you' that Al, in a burst of shallowness called "shallow" was an actual quote from a message I had witnessed just yesterday.  A woman who was accused of witnessing and doing nothing about a rape, offered proof that she had not been there, and was told on her own blog "don't make this about yourself." The Social Justice scene has created this knee jerk vocabulary that people apply sociopath I call you, without thinking. They make it evil to even present evidence of innocence.  The Spanish Inquisition would have blushed at their logic.

It wasn't an outlying example. The board was full of such hate.  No one seemed to consider the possibility that the victim being drugged to the gills on qualudes and by her own account sliding in and out of consciousness might cause her to misremember what third parties did during the rape.

As for you, Al, you do toss out random attacks like an 8ball.  "Stop making this about you" is part of the standard tool of mindless attacks that y'all are trained to spout when you have nothing else to say. So no, the nasty little git that said that was not an "outlier"

AI Wessex

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Re: Hell bent on the Caliphate
« Reply #28 on: December 25, 2015, 02:14:13 PM »
Pete, what can I say about a single anecdotal report for which I don't see that you have provided backup in this thread?  Generalize away, it makes the need for a more plausible basis for your argument less necessary, but it doesn't make your argument (whatever it is) more worthy.

Greg Davidson

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Re: Hell bent on the Caliphate
« Reply #29 on: December 25, 2015, 03:36:58 PM »
Quote
Unfortunately this is how Clintonistas get as we grow closer to elections.  Your candidate does not sit well with your conscience and you take it out on the rest of the world.  Sanders people are much easier to talk to.

My candidate? So far my responses regarding 2016 Democratic candidates have been addressing anti-Clinton arguments I disagree with. This is one of my concerns with Sanders' candidacy, we don't yet know how he will fare against the enormous volume of bogus accusations that he will face (or don't you remember that Al Gore was so ambitious that his life would end if he didn't win the Presidency, or the John Kerry swiftboat smears or etc. etc.).  Clinton has a pretty good track record of survivng the endless series of false accusations that will be placed on any Democratic candidate.

Greg Davidson

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Re: Hell bent on the Caliphate
« Reply #30 on: December 25, 2015, 03:53:17 PM »
Quote
Greg Davidson, what's the end goal here? These people will say the words you want them to say, or they won't. At the end of the day, we're supposed to be arguing for and against ideas, not people.

ETA-Clarification. Referring to you being upset about some people not admitting when they're wrong.

That is an interesting context. Eliminate the sense of personalities and deal with arguments in the abstract.  That is a different view from where I have been coming from, and maybe that is seen in me using my actual name and others using nicknames. I need to think about why that matters to me.  Thanks for the comment

Pete at Home

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Re: Hell bent on the Caliphate
« Reply #31 on: December 25, 2015, 03:58:42 PM »
"My candidate? So far my responses regarding 2016 Democratic candidates have been addressing anti-Clinton arguments I disagree with"

How does that contradiction of you being a Clintonista?

Hillary and her husband are masters of attack politics. I remember Hillary on the news trying to spin up support for a Bush affair story. Anyone who survives a primary against H can survive anything the Repugnics cough up.

Greg Davidson

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Re: Hell bent on the Caliphate
« Reply #32 on: December 25, 2015, 04:23:54 PM »
Actually, I don't know what you mean by Clintonista, but is sounds both derogatory and if you are asserting that I have a loyalty that trumps reasoned judgement.

Come to think of it, I am not sure of much of what you are asserting. Maybe this will work better if I don't reply to what I think your insinuations mean, but rather ask you to make your case more clearly:


It sounds like you may be implying that Hillary and Bill Clinton have commited as many or more inappropriate acts of political attack than their opponents - is that your claim?




Pete at Home

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Re: Hell bent on the Caliphate
« Reply #33 on: December 25, 2015, 04:40:25 PM »
Quote
Greg Davidson, what's the end goal here? These people will say the words you want them to say, or they won't. At the end of the day, we're supposed to be arguing for and against ideas, not people.

ETA-Clarification. Referring to you being upset about some people not admitting when they're wrong.

That is an interesting context. Eliminate the sense of personalities and deal with arguments in the abstract.  That is a different view from where I have been coming from, and maybe that is seen in me using my actual name and others using nicknames. I need to think about why that matters to me.  Thanks for the comment

I use my own name and personal details, and I quite frequently admit to being wrong when better facts come in, but you just went out of your way to paint me as a useless participant as retaliation for my specific complaint that "Pyr" blames others for his own misstatements.  I hope you reconsider valuing partisanship over principle.

Greg Davidson

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Re: Hell bent on the Caliphate
« Reply #34 on: December 26, 2015, 02:13:13 AM »
Maybe we all have to make a much bigger effort to be clear in our language.  I did not intend to "paint [you] as a useless participant" and my comments were in no way in retaliation for partisan positioning. 

You are not who I think of here when I think of those who never acknowledge an error or a change in position. 

I do think that the term "Clintonista" is both vague and inappropriately applied if I guess right what it means. 

And Bill and Hillary Clinton strike me as average politicians with respect to their track record for attacks on their opponents (average over the standards of the last 30 years or so). Bernie Sanders, like Obama, have been below average in their use of political attacks but that still does not make them "political attack pacifists", just below average. But I imagine this is a fairly subjective measure. I suspect that you will have a hard time making a case that Hillary Clinton is worse than average with respect to making political attacks, because any attempt to assemble an overall case to that effect can be countered by examples of others

Pete at Home

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Re: Hell bent on the Caliphate
« Reply #35 on: December 26, 2015, 03:25:39 PM »
OK, then show me an example as dirty and scuzzy as Hillary criticizing the media in a live interview for giving (in Hillary's view ) inadequate coverage to an unsubstantiated speculation that Bush had boned a subordinate.

Number of attacks is less relevant than the critical "how low will the candidate go" question.

Mrs Clinton does better than Reagan on that question, obviously. But Sanders and Florina seem cleaner by far
« Last Edit: December 26, 2015, 03:39:58 PM by Pete at Home »

Pete at Home

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Re: Hell bent on the Caliphate
« Reply #36 on: December 26, 2015, 03:30:07 PM »
As for the explanation I accept your explanation as for your own post. Thanks for clarifying

Pete at Home

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Re: Hell bent on the Caliphate
« Reply #37 on: December 26, 2015, 03:57:30 PM »
Clintonista is someone who views Clinton like a Reaganista viewed Reagan.  The Bushes never attracted such devotion, but I have heard of Palinistas.  Obama has a fan squad to be sure but his name doesn't end with an N so it doesn't work.

Greg Davidson

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Re: Hell bent on the Caliphate
« Reply #38 on: December 26, 2015, 07:05:01 PM »
Pete,

Could you please provide a link to a direct source of the attack of Hillary Clinton against George W Bush that you are referring to?  I tried googling and it did not come up immediately.

Once you do, I will look to comparatives not from Bernie Sanders (who I believe is less aggressive than average in political attacks, at least so far), but also a range of Republicans

Pyrtolin

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Re: Hell bent on the Caliphate
« Reply #39 on: December 29, 2015, 08:35:33 AM »
So would I. If Pyr did what you just described, I would be quite pleased. While you and Al make sweeping and somewhat unfair dismissals of my entire participation, my criticism of Pyr's defensive generalization is measured, specific and constructive.
If I was playing DnD and making a wish, then, sure, it would be reasonable to make an exceptional effort to pedant-proof what I'm saying. But I'm not going to go through that effort here because I rather expect that you have the decency to respond to what's being said rather than trying to play the djinn by seeking out loopholes for misinterpretation or misrepresentation.

If we're talking about a basket of pears and apples and I say "It's safe to eat the skin, but you may want to wash the fruit first" then you reply "That's not true, the skins of papayas and avocados are horrible" then accuse me of making "broad sweeping statements", the misinterpretation is totally in your court, not mine.

Pete at Home

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Re: Hell bent on the Caliphate
« Reply #40 on: December 30, 2015, 05:28:41 PM »
Funny thing here, Pyr, is that you just did what you mistakenly implied that I was doing. 

To use your own analogy, if we were speaking about the edibility of fruit skins, you should probably avoid using overgeneralising statements such as "ALL fruit skins can be eaten if you just rinse them off."  Also, if the conversation involves fruit from other countries, you might want to consider the possibility that your knowledge may be less than comprehensive as to how fruit from third world countries need to be treated before they can be safely consumed.


Pyrtolin

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Re: Hell bent on the Caliphate
« Reply #41 on: December 30, 2015, 06:54:10 PM »
To use your own analogy, if we were speaking about the edibility of fruit skins, you should probably avoid using overgeneralising statements such as "ALL fruit skins can be eaten if you just rinse them off."
And I don't. You go back and shove that word in later to make the false accusation.

Quote
  Also, if the conversation involves fruit from other countries, you might want to consider the possibility that your knowledge may be less than comprehensive as to how fruit from third world countries need to be treated before they can be safely consumed.
But we aren't, so it's not relevant to the context, and it's a false criticism of my statement, which was specifically about a domestic fruit basket, not to mention that we we'rent talking about the need to wash them before eating, just about whether the sin itself is safe to eat. So again, it's a criticism on false premises that doesn't actually contradict me, but rather injects a secondary concern that I was not talking about and then pretends that I was taking a position on that tangential topic.

It's true that if those things were in context, then they would be things to address, but again, you're bringing things that are _out of context_ and shifting teh focus of the discussion away from the point that I made and toward those out of context criticisms that _completely miss the point_.

That may be a useful technique in a formal debate or perhaps a trial when you're trying to discredit someone on a technicality and score technical points instead of trying to take them on head on on substance, but it's a poor tactic to bring to the table in a general discussion that's supposed to be on equal terms.

Seriati

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Re: Hell bent on the Caliphate
« Reply #42 on: December 30, 2015, 08:35:01 PM »
But we aren't, so it's not relevant to the context, and it's a false criticism of my statement, which was specifically about a domestic fruit basket, not to mention that we we'rent talking about the need to wash them before eating, just about whether the sin itself is safe to eat. So again, it's a criticism on false premises that doesn't actually contradict me, but rather injects a secondary concern that I was not talking about and then pretends that I was taking a position on that tangential topic.
Kind of like every single debate where you jump on everyone else's use of language and what they should just understand it means, notwithstanding their express statements of what they mean.  Lol.

Pyrtolin

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Re: Hell bent on the Caliphate
« Reply #43 on: December 30, 2015, 09:47:52 PM »
Kind of like every single debate where you jump on everyone else's use of language and what they should just understand it means, notwithstanding their express statements of what they mean.  Lol.
You mean when I complain about them misrepresenting what others are saying because they're applying a different meaning of the word than the original speaker used in context or are otherwise reacting to the use of terms by others and then arguing that they mean something other than what they were used to mean.

D.W.

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Re: Hell bent on the Caliphate
« Reply #44 on: January 04, 2016, 01:14:36 PM »
Or when one is accused of misrepresenting someone because when parsed, a word has a different "most obvious implied usage" to the writer, than the one you claim is "correct".  Typically not much of a problem but in some cases (a surprising many cases on Ornery) they represent incompatible or contrary meanings.

Oddly, this seems to derail discussion into accusations of ill intent rather than listening to one side or the other clarify their intent.

Pete at Home

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Re: Hell bent on the Caliphate
« Reply #45 on: January 04, 2016, 01:25:05 PM »
Pyr, I have never been in a formal debate and have no idea what you mean by "points."

If we were in a court situation I would motion to get your remarks stricken from the record as misstating the law and the facts.  And I would invariably win.

The reason I give you counterexamples to your grandiose overgeneralized statements about fact and law, is to get you to make narrower, reasonable statements whose applicability we can discuss more reasonably.  My intent isn't to discredit you.  It's to engage you.