Author Topic: Scott Adams is trying to hypnotize the country  (Read 9395 times)

scifibum

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Scott Adams is trying to hypnotize the country
« on: October 25, 2016, 04:38:39 PM »

I think Scott Adams thinks he's hypnotizing the country to vote for Trump. 


Adams has been touting his powers of hypnosis for years now on his blog.  Sometimes he just calls it "persuasion", but he thinks he's really good at it.  Here he tries to hypnotize you into having great sex:


http://blog.dilbert.com/post/136185394196/hypnotizing-you-to-have-the-best-new-years-day


Note: an important* part of this is that he said in the post previous to this one that it doesn't matter if you know he's trying to do it or how it works.  He says it will work anyway.  Sadly I missed out on the experiment, it didn't seem to work for me when I read the posts later. :p


The other main theme of his blog for the past 14 months or so has been that Trump is a "master persuader" who is hypnotizing the country to vote for him, and here's the twist, Adams is on board.  He's been predicting a Trump landslide win for a long time, because he thinks Trump can manipulate people just that well.  And he's been very proud of his ability to see it and describe it - he calls it the "3d" world of persuasion, which he says is a more accurate or useful way to look at things than "2d" normals who think that they can be rational.


http://blog.dilbert.com/post/131749156346/the-case-for-a-trump-landslide-part-1
http://blog.dilbert.com/post/137347195831/master-persuader-scorecard-for-the-gop-debate


I admit I'm impressed that Adams called Trump for the nomination, long before anyone else seemed to take Trump seriously.  So I think Adams is at least partly right about how Trump operates and why it's working (on some people). 


But the troubling thing is that Adams consistently waves away any potential problems with Trump's strongman rhetoric, bad-faith proposals and empty policy ideas, fascist leanings, sexism, inconsistency and dishonesty.  He alternately claims that it's part of the "master persuader" act, or that it doesn't matter what Trump says he'll do because none of us know what either president can or will accomplish.


It's been kind of unclear whether Adams is trolling or not about his support for Trump.  He always plugs his latest book, so one plausible theory has been that he's being controversial on purpose in order to draw views and market his book.  But sometimes whiffs of resentment, anger, and pride come through in a way that I think would be hard to fake.  I've been on the fence about whether he's being at all sincere (it's a given that many of his remarks are sarcastic, facetious, or otherwise meant to be funny, but I mean about his larger themes).


At various points he claimed that he was in personal danger if he endorsed anyone else but Hillary Clinton.  This is one of those things that is hard to read: he could be joking about this, or he could actually think that someone will try to hurt him if he endorses Donald Trump.  If he's kidding he's kept a pretty straight face, though.  So he said he was endorsing Hillary Clinton for his personal safety.  Part of this message is "Clinton supporters are mean and dangerous - unlike Trump supporters".  This is important...**


http://blog.dilbert.com/post/145456082991/my-endorsement-for-president-of-the-united-states


Later, after Trump's "grab 'em by the pussy" scandal broke, Adams said he's endorsing Gary Johnson, who only touches himself.  I think he saw many Trump supporters distancing themselves over this scandal and was trying not to lose them in his own master plan...***


As Trump has been outdistanced by Clinton in the polls Adams has been hedging his predictions.  He has offered theories of how Clinton came up with her own "master persuader" moments (Adams thinks only a handful of people in the world can do this, so he has a theory about the specific person who helped her).  He has tried to be very consistent about his hypnosis thesis, even as Trumps chances seemed to fade.


http://blog.dilbert.com/post/150032856301/godzilla


He has also suggested that Trump supporters are literally afraid to admit it when asked by pollsters.


http://blog.dilbert.com/post/150170746191/measuring-the-shy-trump-supporters


In the last couple of weeks he's been floating theories that Twitter is doing unfair**** things to him to retaliate for his admiration of Trump:
http://blog.dilbert.com/post/151981022076/is-twitter-shadowbanning-me
http://blog.dilbert.com/post/152204980091/twitter-and-periscope-shadowban-update


In the last few days, he's finally openly endorsing Donald Trump, and renewing his prediction of a landslide Trump victory.


http://blog.dilbert.com/post/152293480726/the-bully-party


I did about a triple take on this line from that entry:
Quote
I endorse Donald Trump for President of the United States because I oppose bullying in all its forms.


But here's the money shot:
Quote
Today I put Trump’s odds of winning in a landslide back to 98%. Remember, I told you a few weeks ago that Trump couldn’t win unless “something changed.”


Something just changed.


*
**
***
****


Do you see the theme? He's been planting the suggestion that Clinton supporters are mean, unfair, violent, etc.  And he's been telling us that none of what Trump shows us means anything about our ability to understand what kind of president he will be.


Well, that last blog post coincides with Adams using the word "bully" on Twitter countless times in the past couple of days.


He thinks he's hypnotizing us, or enough of us to swing the election.  By convincing people that Democrats are bullies, he will get enough people to fight back.  It doesn't matter if we know he's trying to do it, he's already explained that. 


By baiting mockery for the last year, he's got evidence of bullying.  There are lots of blogs about how he's acting weird and crazy, paranoid and ridiculous.  Bullies.  Other Trump supporters know how he feels: they are hearing all over the place that the left thinks they are stupid and backward, if not racist scum. 


He's hoping to gloss over all the details - that Trump has earned scorn in spades, that the meanest fringes of the left don't represent the entire left (just as Trump supporters know they aren't evil racist scumbags even if some exist), that there are actually meaningful policy differences between candidates, etc.  He's been repeating phrases and concepts for over a year that are meant to persuade people to stop thinking about this stuff.  Comments have been turned off on his blog for a long time now, and I think it's to avoid disruptions to his hypnotic rhythms.


It's almost impressive. 


It won't work, because it turns out that he is delusional about his ability to persuade/hypnotize people.  Maybe a fraction, but if so it's the same fraction that Trump has been working with, and it's not big enough. 


He can make us feel bad about the bullies of the Left without changing our votes, and worst of all: his effort is very transparent.  And that does matter.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2016, 04:41:47 PM by scifibum »

LetterRip

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Re: Scott Adams is trying to hypnotize the country
« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2016, 05:09:23 PM »
I'm familiar with Ericksonian hypnosis and NLP, and Scott Adams significantly overstates their effectiveness.  That said,  I do think the polls underestimate Trump support, and that might lead to Democrat overconfidence and thus Democrats not showing up to the polls, or voting 3rd party - which could result in Trump win.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2016, 05:12:54 PM by LetterRip »

cherrypoptart

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Re: Scott Adams is trying to hypnotize the country
« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2016, 01:50:10 AM »

Democrats are much more likely to vandalize the property of their political opponents than Republicans. And when liberals are vandalized in hate crimes much of the time it is self inflicted for sympathy and as a distraction. Ann Coulter wrote a whole book on it. Anyway, that's what Adams means when he talks about bullying and being afraid of not supporting Hillary. I guess he finally decided if she wins she's going to finish what Obama started as far as destroying the country so even if it costs him big time personally, perhaps resulting in his name being added to the Clinton body count list, it's a necessary sacrifice he has no choice but to step up and make, like a Marine at Iwo Jima storming the beach. I can tell you that I don't have a Trump bumper sticker just because some liberal would vandalize my car if I did. That must be the cold wind stifling freedom of speech liberals used to talk about. Honestly you don't see many Trump bumper stickers. I think I've seen two. I saw plenty when Bush was running, and McCain, and Romney. That tells you something. Yes, it tells you to some extent people aren't proud to admit they support Trump, but there's no doubt they are also afraid of a thousand dollar bill for paint job messed up by a keying too.   


Trump, Hillary, and Adams aren't hypnotizing people. But Obama definitely did with the cadence of his speeches, with the pregnant pauses that made him seem contemplative and wise.


AI Wessex

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Re: Scott Adams is trying to hypnotize the country
« Reply #3 on: October 26, 2016, 07:17:10 AM »
Quote
Democrats are much more likely to vandalize the property of their political opponents than Republicans. And when liberals are vandalized in hate crimes much of the time it is self inflicted for sympathy and as a distraction. Ann Coulter wrote a whole book on it.
Can't argue with that!

Quote
Trump, Hillary, and Adams aren't hypnotizing people. But Obama definitely did with the cadence of his speeches, with the pregnant pauses that made him seem contemplative and wise.
Yes, too many notes.

JoshCrow

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Re: Scott Adams is trying to hypnotize the country
« Reply #4 on: October 26, 2016, 09:05:06 AM »
Trump, Hillary, and Adams aren't hypnotizing people. But Obama definitely did with the cadence of his speeches, with the pregnant pauses that made him seem contemplative and wise.

Thanks for this. I needed a good chuckle.

rightleft22

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Re: Scott Adams is trying to hypnotize the country
« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2016, 10:49:52 AM »
Quote
But the troubling thing is that Adams consistently waves away any potential problems with Trump's strongman rhetoric, bad-faith proposals and empty policy ideas, fascist leanings, sexism, inconsistency and dishonesty.  He alternately claims that it's part of the "master persuader" act, or that it doesn't matter what Trump says he'll do because none of us know what either president can or will accomplish.

 he's been telling us that none of what Trump shows us means anything about our ability to understand what kind of president he will be.

Scary but most of the trump followers I've heard and talked to have said, in various ways, that it does not matter what Trump says or his character.
Latest one "yes trump lies but hes not lying to us (me)" or  - Trump lies are different lies so better lies

I don't know about hypnotism but my observation is that Trump supporters have become followers. Its spooky how they pivot in almost the exact same way when questions about the ruder Statements made by Trump or question of character.

I feel Trump still might win.

TheDeamon

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Re: Scott Adams is trying to hypnotize the country
« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2016, 11:00:36 AM »
Quote
But the troubling thing is that Adams consistently waves away any potential problems with Trump's strongman rhetoric, bad-faith proposals and empty policy ideas, fascist leanings, sexism, inconsistency and dishonesty.  He alternately claims that it's part of the "master persuader" act, or that it doesn't matter what Trump says he'll do because none of us know what either president can or will accomplish.

 he's been telling us that none of what Trump shows us means anything about our ability to understand what kind of president he will be.

Scary but most of the trump followers I've heard and talked to have said, in various ways, that it does not matter what Trump says or his character.
Latest one "yes trump lies but hes not lying to us (me)" or  - Trump lies are different lies so better lies

I don't know about hypnotism but my observation is that Trump supporters have become followers. Its spooky how they pivot in almost the exact same way when questions about the ruder Statements made by Trump or question of character.

I feel Trump still might win.

It's possible. I have the sneaking suspicion the winning candidate will squeak in at around 50 million votes(about a quarter of the total voting eligible population). So it's going to be about getting out the vote for "your side," and I'm remembering comments from this spring by Limbaugh about Trump and his "relationship with his base" which basically echoes you on this. Target it all you want, you're not going to alienate them from Trump.

AI Wessex

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Re: Scott Adams is trying to hypnotize the country
« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2016, 11:04:47 AM »
Quote
I feel Trump still might win.
Not to worry.  Trump himself took the day of to showcase his DC hotel.  He knows how to keep his priorities straight.  His diehard supporters (like Cherry) will never abandon him, and on election night they will have a rock-solid explanation for why he lost that has nothing to do with Trump himself.  Trump was once asked how he felt in general about losing and said he couldn't imagine it happening.  He's got 4,000 lawsuits open right now; he won't care if he has to start 1,000 more after the election.

rightleft22

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Re: Scott Adams is trying to hypnotize the country
« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2016, 11:43:53 AM »
Donald Trump is going to win, says professor who has correctly predicted the last 8 elections
Lichtman's prediction isn't based on horse-race polls, shifting demographics or his own political opinions. Rather, he uses a system of true/false statements he calls the "Keys to the White House" to determine his predicted winner.

"The Keys to the White House" is a historically based prediction system. I derived the system by looking at every American presidential election from 1860 to 1980, and have since used the system to correctly predict the outcomes of all eight American presidential elections from 1984 to 2012.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-is-going-to-win-beat-hillary-clinton-predictions-polls-al-a7325716.html

Basically based on Lichtman studies the Republicans were a sure win with any candidate  they might have chosen but acknowledges that a candidate like Trump so he might break the rule.

Quote
We've never before seen a candidate who's spent his life enriching himself at the expense of others.
He's the first candidate in our history to be a serial fabricator, making up things as he goes along.
Even when he tells the truth, such as, "Barack Obama really was born in the U.S.," he adds two lines, that Hillary Clinton started the birther movement, and that he finished it, even though when Barack Obama put out his birth certificate, he didn't believe it.
We've never had a candidate before who not just once, but twice in a thinly disguised way, has incited violence against an opponent.
We've never had a candidate before who's invited a hostile foreign power to meddle in American elections.
We've never had a candidate before who's threatened to start a war by blowing ships out of the water in the Persian Gulf if they come too close to us.
We've never had a candidate before who has embraced as a role model a murderous, hostile foreign dictator.
Given all of these exceptions that Donald Trump represents, he may well shatter patterns of history that have held for more than 150 years, lose this election even if the historical circumstances favor it.



D.W.

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Re: Scott Adams is trying to hypnotize the country
« Reply #9 on: October 26, 2016, 12:05:51 PM »
Well, I've said to my friends and family before that if the Republican party ran ANYONE but Trump, they'd win this election (against Hillary).  So I guess I agree with his criteria to a large extent.  I think he's right that Trump being a candidate of exceptions puts his system into jeopardy. 

Fenring

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Re: Scott Adams is trying to hypnotize the country
« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2016, 12:19:13 PM »
Well, I've said to my friends and family before that if the Republican party ran ANYONE but Trump, they'd win this election (against Hillary).  So I guess I agree with his criteria to a large extent.  I think he's right that Trump being a candidate of exceptions puts his system into jeopardy.

You really think Kasich would have beaten her? I don't think so. Maybe Cruz, but honestly he just didn't seem like presidential material to me. He's too unlikable even on aesthetic grounds, to say nothing of his positions. Maybe Rubio or Bush, though.

D.W.

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Re: Scott Adams is trying to hypnotize the country
« Reply #11 on: October 26, 2016, 01:17:30 PM »
I think a particularly life like puppet could beat HRC.  It's opening his mouth and speaking that is torpedoing Trump's campaign, not his opponent.

D.W.

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Re: Scott Adams is trying to hypnotize the country
« Reply #12 on: October 26, 2016, 01:24:19 PM »
Quote
I can tell you that I don't have a Trump bumper sticker just because some liberal would vandalize my car if I did.
  Well, in light of the assault on Trump's star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame... you may be onto something.

NobleHunter

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Re: Scott Adams is trying to hypnotize the country
« Reply #13 on: October 26, 2016, 02:28:24 PM »
Cruz might have energized the Dem's base and alienated the GOP establishment same way Trump is seeming to. I'd give Clinton the advantage in that match up. Any of the boring GOP candidates would probably be a much stronger challenger as they wouldn't be freaking people out as much.

AI Wessex

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Re: Scott Adams is trying to hypnotize the country
« Reply #14 on: October 26, 2016, 02:50:23 PM »
I think Kasich would have been the strongest, given his status as the candidate nearest to being an adult of the bunch.

Wayward Son

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Re: Scott Adams is trying to hypnotize the country
« Reply #15 on: October 26, 2016, 03:34:37 PM »
Quote
I can tell you that I don't have a Trump bumper sticker just because some liberal would vandalize my car if I did. That must be the cold wind stifling freedom of speech liberals used to talk about.

It could be worse.  You could be a Republican opposing Trump.

Trump Doesn't Care Whether the GOP Keeps Congress

AI Wessex

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Re: Scott Adams is trying to hypnotize the country
« Reply #16 on: October 27, 2016, 09:58:01 AM »
I think a particularly life like puppet could beat HRC.  It's opening his mouth and speaking that is torpedoing Trump's campaign, not his opponent.
I wouldn't put it quite that strongly, but the media, with help from Wikileaks and other hackers, are systematically exposing her vulnerables.  I had thought that well would run dry by now, but the fact that Wilileaks keeps releasing new emails in small batches suggests they have enough to keep doing this through the election and maybe beyond.

TheDrake

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D.W.

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Re: Scott Adams is trying to hypnotize the country
« Reply #18 on: October 27, 2016, 02:26:58 PM »
I don't honestly believe my statement either AI, but with this level of negative numbers for both, it's close.  This is the first time in my life that the election is about voting against the other side instead of voting for a candidate you want.  Both sides, overwhelmingly are voting to STOP one of the candidates.   :'(

I heard an interesting segment on NPR about a former Sanders supporter who asked after the convention to have Hillary supporters sell her on their candidates without mentioning Trump or the Supreme Court.  She said that stymied them.  Then the reporter asked a Hillary supporter during this follow up (just the other day) if she had an answer for this person.  The Hillary supporter immediately began pounding away about the SC and how irresponsible it was to NOT take that into account.  (As if that was the suggestion of the Sander's supporters criteria...)  So the answer it seems is,  "We don't know either, but I'm With Her!"    ::)

Seriati

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Re: Scott Adams is trying to hypnotize the country
« Reply #19 on: October 27, 2016, 04:28:38 PM »
Not to worry.  Trump himself took the day of to showcase his DC hotel.  He knows how to keep his priorities straight. 

Mock him if you want, but I actually know someone who went from undecided to voting for Trump because he opened the Hotel.  She said if made her remember that he's actually created jobs.

AI Wessex

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Re: Scott Adams is trying to hypnotize the country
« Reply #20 on: October 27, 2016, 11:10:38 PM »
Not to worry.  Trump himself took the day of to showcase his DC hotel.  He knows how to keep his priorities straight. 

Mock him if you want, but I actually know someone who went from undecided to voting for Trump because he opened the Hotel.  She said if made her remember that he's actually created jobs.
Which only proves that there's a sucker in every crowd.  Some of his workers may have been illegal aliens and he may have bought steel from China for the hotel that was dumped on our market.  He's done those things before, so why not here?

rightleft22

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Re: Scott Adams is trying to hypnotize the country
« Reply #21 on: October 28, 2016, 10:53:40 AM »
I don't understand how so many people  feel they can trust this man or don't realize that he will turn on the the moment they question him... though it is unlikely his followers will question him

AI Wessex

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Re: Scott Adams is trying to hypnotize the country
« Reply #22 on: October 28, 2016, 10:55:57 AM »
My theory is that people who are weak or alienated are attracted to people they think have power.  Trump is their enabler.

D.W.

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Re: Scott Adams is trying to hypnotize the country
« Reply #23 on: October 28, 2016, 12:29:14 PM »
If you believe your way of life is under siege, seeing a man "standing up for you!" who is... constantly under siege by those same nebulous forces would have some appeal.

cherrypoptart

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Re: Scott Adams is trying to hypnotize the country
« Reply #24 on: October 28, 2016, 12:37:37 PM »
My theory is that Trump wants to secure the border, enforce current immigration law instead of completely ignore it, take Muslim terrorism seriously instead of regard it as the new normal, lower taxes, cut unnecessary regulations on businesses, scrap Obamacare, hopefully delete every Obama executive order, fire a bunch of political hacks in our government beginning with Comey and the IRS crew who targeted conservatives, appoint a Supreme Court justice who agrees with the Heller decision and thinks of the Constitution more as the law of the land instead of just the outdated ideas of some old white men who owned slaves, support the police instead of encouraging lone wolf ISIS style terrorist attacks on them, and hopefully keep his promise on at least looking into getting rid of birthright citizenship. In the end we can talk about the psychology of Trump but it actually just comes down to issues and there is a huge divide between Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton.

D.W.

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Re: Scott Adams is trying to hypnotize the country
« Reply #25 on: October 28, 2016, 12:53:25 PM »
My theory is a lot of that is him playing a role.  I'm still very skeptical on what Trump believes or wants beyond attention.  But that is certainly a good outline of policy reasons people support him.

AI Wessex

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Re: Scott Adams is trying to hypnotize the country
« Reply #26 on: October 28, 2016, 03:21:40 PM »
My theory is that Trump wants to secure the border, enforce current immigration law instead of completely ignore it, take Muslim terrorism seriously instead of regard it as the new normal, lower taxes, cut unnecessary regulations on businesses, scrap Obamacare, hopefully delete every Obama executive order, fire a bunch of political hacks in our government beginning with Comey and the IRS crew who targeted conservatives, appoint a Supreme Court justice who agrees with the Heller decision and thinks of the Constitution more as the law of the land instead of just the outdated ideas of some old white men who owned slaves, support the police instead of encouraging lone wolf ISIS style terrorist attacks on them, and hopefully keep his promise on at least looking into getting rid of birthright citizenship. In the end we can talk about the psychology of Trump but it actually just comes down to issues and there is a huge divide between Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton.
I don't think you have a clue about what Trump wants, only what he says.  There is every reason to believe that the only thing he wants is your devoted attention, and he will do whatever it takes to get it.  For instance, he no longer expects Mexico to pay for the wall and very likely doesn't care one way or another if it actually gets built.  It absolutely does not come down to issues, only to his need for power and attention.  If he thought he could have gotten more of it running as a Democrat I wouldn't have been surprised if his positions on all those issues would be the opposite of what you think he stands for.

Fenring

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Re: Scott Adams is trying to hypnotize the country
« Reply #27 on: October 28, 2016, 03:35:02 PM »
I don't think you have a clue about what Trump wants, only what he says.

One could say the exact same thing about Hillary. Perhaps if you had said it's hard to predict what he'll do, it would be a more balanced claim. I have a decent sense about what Hillary will do in office, even though I can't guess at exactly what she wants. With Trump maybe both are mysteries, although to be honest I think what he'll actually do isn't as big a mystery as what's going on inside his head. The 'build a wall' thing has become a meme to end all memes, but in general I expect it would be a typical GOP Presidential cycle minus the wars from the W days.

rightleft22

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Re: Scott Adams is trying to hypnotize the country
« Reply #28 on: October 28, 2016, 03:40:59 PM »
Quote
My theory is that Trump wants to secure the border, enforce current immigration law instead of completely ignore it, take Muslim terrorism seriously instead of regard it as the new normal, lower taxes, cut unnecessary regulations on businesses, scrap Obamacare, hopefully delete every Obama executive order, fire a bunch of political hacks in our government beginning with Comey and the IRS crew who targeted conservatives, appoint a Supreme Court justice who agrees with the Heller decision and thinks of the Constitution more as the law of the land instead of just the outdated ideas of some old white men who owned slaves, support the police instead of encouraging lone wolf ISIS style terrorist attacks on them, and hopefully keep his promise on at least looking into getting rid of birthright citizenship. In the end we can talk about the psychology of Trump but it actually just comes down to issues and there is a huge divide between Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton.

I understand why some people might like what Trump is promising but not why they trust that Trump will deliver

rightleft22

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Re: Scott Adams is trying to hypnotize the country
« Reply #29 on: October 28, 2016, 03:49:06 PM »
Oh I see it.
Quote
In the end we can talk about the psychology of Trump but it actually just comes down to issues

You don’t care if Trump psychology points to a person that cannot be trusted
As Trump himself said he could kill someone and you would still not think it relevant…. Maybe if it was you he decides to shoot, but even then maybe not.

AI Wessex

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Re: Scott Adams is trying to hypnotize the country
« Reply #30 on: October 28, 2016, 04:02:53 PM »
Quote
One could say the exact same thing about Hillary.
True, one could say that about anybody, so that invalidates my comment about Trump.  Even so, are you trying to say that you believe that Trump is sincere and honest, or at least more sincere and honest than Hillary?

cherrypoptart

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Re: Scott Adams is trying to hypnotize the country
« Reply #31 on: October 28, 2016, 05:32:19 PM »
http://www.showbiz411.com/2016/10/18/michael-moore-in-surprise-movie-hate-hillary-vote-for-her-anyway

Moore touches on all of the anti Hillary arguments including the suicide of Vince Foster. “I hope she did kill Vince Foster,” he jokes. “That’s badass.”

cherrypoptart

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Re: Scott Adams is trying to hypnotize the country
« Reply #32 on: October 28, 2016, 05:33:53 PM »
If Trump doesn't deliver on his promises all that means is that there was no difference between him and Hillary therefore nothing was gained but nothing was lost either.

scifibum

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Re: Scott Adams is trying to hypnotize the country
« Reply #33 on: October 28, 2016, 05:39:33 PM »
If Trump doesn't deliver on his promises all that means is that there was no difference between him and Hillary therefore nothing was gained but nothing was lost either.

Losses:
40% of the country's brains exploding when DONALD TRUMP is their president.

TheDeamon

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Re: Scott Adams is trying to hypnotize the country
« Reply #34 on: October 28, 2016, 11:09:26 PM »
Losses:
40% of the country's brains exploding when DONALD TRUMP is their president.

Watching that happen might make it worth it, however.

Seriati

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Re: Scott Adams is trying to hypnotize the country
« Reply #35 on: October 29, 2016, 12:45:48 PM »
Quote
One could say the exact same thing about Hillary.
True, one could say that about anybody, so that invalidates my comment about Trump.  Even so, are you trying to say that you believe that Trump is sincere and honest, or at least more sincere and honest than Hillary?

I'll flat out say it.  There is no question that Trump is more honest than Hillary.  I have not seen one thing that convinces me Hillary ever tells the truth if she thinks a lie would serve her own interests better.

I'm not really seeing where we are at high risk for what Trump has said he'll do being lies in any case.  What is he lieing about where the truth will be worse for the country?

AI Wessex

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Re: Scott Adams is trying to hypnotize the country
« Reply #36 on: October 29, 2016, 02:08:54 PM »
There's absolutely no way to know. Since he lies so often about so many things and understands so little about how to govern, you have no basis for believing what he will do about anything.

TheDeamon

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Re: Scott Adams is trying to hypnotize the country
« Reply #37 on: October 29, 2016, 07:32:02 PM »
There's absolutely no way to know. Since he lies so often about so many things and understands so little about how to govern, you have no basis for believing what he will do about anything.

Leadership "at the top" is a strange critter. But for a large organization, it usually comes down to two things:
1) Delegate most authority to experts that have a clue.
2) Trust that the people you delegated authority to know what they're doing.

After that, you just hold final approval authority, set policies, goals, and direction for the organization and keep your underlings "honest," or not, as your priorities go.

Pretty sure Trump knows how to delegate and give direction. He wouldn't be in business at the level he is otherwise.

AI Wessex

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Re: Scott Adams is trying to hypnotize the country
« Reply #38 on: October 29, 2016, 08:04:47 PM »
Quote
Leadership "at the top" is a strange critter. But for a large organization, it usually comes down to two things:
1) Delegate most authority to experts that have a clue.
2) Trust that the people you delegated authority to know what they're doing.
Really?  You think we elect the Manager of the United States?  The government is not some large organization, and the President is not in charge of a team of subordinates to whom he delegates decision making and strategy.  They work for him (if Hillary, for her).  You make it sound like he is just trying to make sure he gets a good bonus at the end of the year.  I can imagine the first State of the Union Address from Trump:

"Well, I told him to figure out the mess in the Mideast.  He didn't get it done, so I fired him."

"True, we wasted a lot of money on Immigration policy and things haven't gotten any better.  As soon as I find out who was responsible for that I promise the American people that he will be held accountable."

"I am looking for someone to head up the new Department of Tourism and Hotels.  My son is interested, and I assure you that he knows what to do.  I'll help him if he needs it."

"As for our ongoing war against ISIS.  My generals assured me they would have that taken care of by now, so I'm looking for other people who want to run the Defense Department.  Herman Cain has told me that he is still interested in the position, so once we negotiate his options and residuals I should have an announcement for you."

"I promised you that you would get tired of winning.  I'm very happy with our progress.  And may God bless us every one."

TheDeamon

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Re: Scott Adams is trying to hypnotize the country
« Reply #39 on: October 29, 2016, 11:36:21 PM »
No, the President isn't the manager, he's the guy the manager reports to. If you have a smart manager, you let the manager manage, rather than waste time and resources managing him. (Also called "micro-managing.")

The Government IS a large organization, it employees Millions of people. I highly doubt Obama, Bush, Clinton, Bush, or Reagan spent much "Presidential time" on things their "management team"(read: Presidential Cabinet) didn't bring to their attention, aside from lobbyist visits(pawn them off on the relevant cabinet Secretary), or political favors while doing other business(again, handing most of the scutwork to the relevant cabinet members). The one exception being any pet projects they may have "adopted" while in office.

It's the "fun" side of being Chief Executive for a large organization. You get to tell other people to do your bidding, and require regular updates and reports. You personally don't need to do anything more than pretend to pay attention to said reports. At least, until your management team starts getting ideas that could get you in trouble.

So yes, in the context of Trump, I would expect a lot of his style to be "get me the best experts on _____" and once that's done, he'd give them the parameters he expects them to work within, and promptly go "do whatever they suggest."

Which is part of why he is such a wild card. His "expert selection criteria" is going to determine a lot that follows.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2016, 11:40:59 PM by TheDeamon »

yossarian22c

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Re: Scott Adams is trying to hypnotize the country
« Reply #40 on: October 30, 2016, 01:02:23 PM »
Which is part of why he is such a wild card. His "expert selection criteria" is going to determine a lot that follows.

I have very little faith in his expert selection since he always wants to be smarter than all the people around him.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/christophermassie/trump-in-2007-hire-great-people-but-make-sure-theyre-not-sma?utm_term=.uydR9o1PWA#.nflxlrovGm

AI Wessex

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Re: Scott Adams is trying to hypnotize the country
« Reply #41 on: October 30, 2016, 01:10:22 PM »
He's also not a good people manager.  Even his own lawyers have sued him, and he gave a speech in 2001 in which he explained that if anyone attacks him he will attack back 10 times harder.  To illustrate that he asked a former Miss Universe winner to come up from the audience on stage with no warning and proceeded to humiliate her.  Video here.

rightleft22

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Re: Scott Adams is trying to hypnotize the country
« Reply #42 on: October 30, 2016, 01:30:33 PM »
I'll flat out say it.  There is no question that Trump is more honest than Hillary.  I have not seen one thing that convinces me Hillary ever tells the truth if she thinks a lie would serve her own interests better.

I'm not really seeing where we are at high risk for what Trump has said he'll do being lies in any case.  What is he lieing about where the truth will be worse for the country?

If I understand you’re saying both Hillary and Trump lie however Trump lies are more honest and or lies when telling the truth would be worse for the country makes him more honest.

No matter how well Trump picks those he delegates he will still be the voice of the American people and Americans representation to the world. I don’t see how any nation could or would work with a man like Trump except maybe Russia.

Trump has proven that he will not be managed and is easily provoked. He has also proven that he does not think words or truth matter. For him the ends justify the means and when the ends don’t, no matter, you spin the win. You will never get a straight answer from a man like Trump. 

Trump has demonstrated that he does not know the difference between promotion and state craft. Trump views all opposition as personal and does not negotiate in good faith. Friends become Enemies, followers must be yes men. He does not read, he does not study, he does not reflect. Trump is all reaction, all ID and Ego.

If this is the type of man the USA wants as the head of state and voice well… shame on America.

Trump is not psychologically fit to be head of state.

Regardless of Trump wining or losing this will not end well.

TheDeamon

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Re: Scott Adams is trying to hypnotize the country
« Reply #43 on: October 30, 2016, 03:18:25 PM »
I think the term we are reaching for is "honest dishonesty" we know Trump is lying about practically everything, but he's also being blatantly transparent about nearly all of it.

Hillary on the other hand, we know she's lying about a long list of things, but finding the evidence about what she's doing and why...

rightleft22

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Re: Scott Adams is trying to hypnotize the country
« Reply #44 on: October 30, 2016, 04:13:24 PM »
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we know she's lying about a long list of things, but finding the evidence about what she's doing and why...

We know Hillary is lying but don't have evidence - suggesting a new definition of 'knowing' is being applied
We know Trump is lying and have evidence but because its transparent lies so not lying - suggesting we need a new definition of lying

We are certainly not holding each candidate  accountable  in the same way.

How long in a Trump presidency will his followers allow him to get away with the lying and demand better. What happens if they ever do demand better and become the other that Trump can only see as enemy to be crushed.






 

AI Wessex

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Re: Scott Adams is trying to hypnotize the country
« Reply #45 on: October 30, 2016, 05:52:34 PM »
Do you realize the disconnect in your post where you say the two highlighted things. 
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I'll flat out say it.  There is no question that Trump is more honest than Hillary.  I have not seen one thing that convinces me Hillary ever tells the truth if she thinks a lie would serve her own interests better.

I'm not really seeing where we are at high risk for what Trump has said he'll do being lies in any case.  What is he lieing about where the truth will be worse for the country?

If I understand you’re saying both Hillary and Trump lie however Trump lies are more honest and or lies when telling the truth would be worse for the country makes him more honest.

No matter how well Trump picks those he delegates he will still be the voice of the American people and Americans representation to the world. I don’t see how any nation could or would work with a man like Trump except maybe Russia.

Trump has proven that he will not be managed and is easily provoked. He has also proven that he does not think words or truth matter. For him the ends justify the means and when the ends don’t, no matter, you spin the win. You will never get a straight answer from a man like Trump. 

Trump has demonstrated that he does not know the difference between promotion and state craft. Trump views all opposition as personal and does not negotiate in good faith. Friends become Enemies, followers must be yes men. He does not read, he does not study, he does not reflect. Trump is all reaction, all ID and Ego.

If this is the type of man the USA wants as the head of state and voice well… shame on America.

Trump is not psychologically fit to be head of state.

Regardless of Trump wining or losing this will not end well.

How the hell do you square them?  Basically, Trump is willing to tell you that he is bull*censored*ting you, and then he goes ahead and does it.  People stand back and somehow translate that into honesty.  It's as if he would say that he's going to steal your money and when he does it you say, Gee, at least he was honest about it.  I do agree that no matter who wins, this will not end well.

cherrypoptart

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Re: Scott Adams is trying to hypnotize the country
« Reply #46 on: October 30, 2016, 06:06:27 PM »
They are all liars. Even Obama. In fact, especially Obama. And Hillary is made in his mold.

http://nypost.com/2016/10/30/obama-told-us-hes-honorable-but-hes-just-another-liar/

“We need to clean this up — he has e-mails from her — they do not say state.gov,” Cheryl Mills, a top aide, wrote to John Podesta, another senior adviser, on March 7, 2015.

In promoting ObamaCare, Obama repeatedly and shamelessly lied to the American people: “If you like the plan you have, you can keep it. If you like the doctor you have, you can keep your doctor, too,” he said on June 6, 2009, in one of dozens of similar remarks. Obama knew this was untrue at the time; it was built into the plan that millions would lose the health plans they had.

BS can involve starry-eyed thinking that won’t survive acquaintance with reality. Obama might have actually believed himself when he promised “the most transparent administration in history.” Today it’s obvious that instead, Obama’s White House has been “one of the most secretive,” as Washington Post media columnist Margaret Sullivan put it.

It wasn’t mere B.S. when Obama lied about Benghazi: “We revealed to the American people exactly what we understood at the time,” he said on Feb. 2, 2014, though his administration knew the night of the Sept. 11, 2012 attacks that they were planned, terrorist acts. On Sept. 16, 2012, UN Ambassador Susan Rice, working from White House-approved talking points, repeatedly blamed the Benghazi attacks on a nonexistent protest over an inflammatory video.

Obama lied about the Fast and Furious operation that allowed some 2,500 firearms to be bought by Mexican drug cartels. One such gun was used to murder US Border Patrol agent Brian Terry: “The Fast and Furious program was a field-initiated program begun under the previous administration,” Obama said on Sept. 20, 2012. In fact, the program was launched by Obama’s Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms in October 2009.

Obama lied about immigration: “My position hasn’t changed,” he said on Nov. 20, 2014, as he announced unilateral executive action to normalize the status of illegal immigrants, a move he had repeatedly and correctly said he lacked the authority to make.

Obama lied about the IRS’s targeting of conservatives, even contradicting his own statements that the harassment was “inexcusable” and made him “angry” on May 15, 2013. Less than a year later, when the heat was off, he said there was “not even a smidgen of corruption” and the IRS’s vendetta against right-leaning groups was totally excusable as a bureaucratic snafu.

Once upon a time, when we were all bedazzled by his freshness, Obama set about saying whatever it took to get elected. Remember when he promised health-care negotiations would be broadcast on C-SPAN, when he said his deeply held religious beliefs meant he couldn’t support gay marriage, when he said he would not raise any kind of taxes on families earning less than $250,000?"

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And these are just some of the lies we know about. Electing Hillary means we never find out about the deceptions he got away with.

rightleft22

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Re: Scott Adams is trying to hypnotize the country
« Reply #47 on: October 30, 2016, 06:12:54 PM »
I was responding to Seriati but failed notice I didn't quote it

Quote
I'll flat out say it.  There is no question that Trump is more honest than Hillary.  I have not seen one thing that convinces me Hillary ever tells the truth if she thinks a lie would serve her own interests better.

I'm not really seeing where we are at high risk for what Trump has said he'll do being lies in any case.  What is he lieing about where the truth will be worse for the country?

cherrypoptart

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Re: Scott Adams is trying to hypnotize the country
« Reply #48 on: October 30, 2016, 06:44:38 PM »
I can't help but notice that everyone freaking out about Trump's lies gives Obama a complete pass. That makes me wonder if Trump were acting the same way that he is now in every way except that on the issues he was running as a Democrat in favor of open borders, gun control, recreational abortion as birth control, and so on, the exact same people who are so opposed to him now would forgive him for everything and would be his biggest supporters. Most likely the same thing could be said in reverse about Hillary as well. Basically, the truth is that nobody has any credibility anymore. Maybe not even me.

AI Wessex

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Re: Scott Adams is trying to hypnotize the country
« Reply #49 on: October 30, 2016, 06:48:09 PM »
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I can't help but notice that everyone freaking out about Trump's lies gives Obama a complete pass.
You only imagine that.  If you are constantly inundated with bull*censored* from a freakshow, then a committed, but not perfectly honest, alternative will be the slam dunk pick.  Trump is a stack of *censored* ready to dump all over you if you let him.  Get out now while you still have a shred of dignity.

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And these are just some of the lies we know about. Electing Hillary means we never find out about the deceptions he got away with.
Elect Trump and you'll never catch up to that express train.  The man has no affinity for the truth at all, and you should recognize that he doesn't care anything about you.  Why don't you see that?