Author Topic: Trump and quasi state controlled media  (Read 6345 times)

rightleft22

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Trump and quasi state controlled media
« on: November 23, 2016, 10:10:56 AM »
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The political communications professor at George Washington University worries about the bigger implications of a weakened press corps giving way to a "quasi-state-controlled apparatus" in the U.S.

"If Trump effectively shuts down the White House press corps, and only provides interviews to some amalgamation of Breitbart.com and Fox News," he says, "there's a very real risk that within six months to a year we're going to have something that looks like [state-controlled] Russia Today and [former Soviet newspaper] Pravda."

Throughout the campaign Trump has owned the ‘Medias’ ass and in doing so undermined it in ways in that I think undermine democracy. You can’t trust the media but you can trust my media.

Trump is able to use nasty language however if the media reports on the nasty language is it they we are being mean so biased against him. 

Trump and his followers can revel in not being politically correct but when address Trump and his followers you must use politically correct language and not offend them.  They are not being nasty you are

The word bias now means any reporting/facts that does not support the ‘facts’ I already ‘know’ is biased. 

To me this is scary stuff.

How do you dialog with a man and hold him accountable when he gets to say whatever he wants, in any manner he wants while you must still play by ‘rules’ soon to be his rules. Why are so many people ok with this?

Is this a legitimate danger?

Fenring

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Re: Trump and quasi state controlled media
« Reply #1 on: November 23, 2016, 10:16:23 AM »
There is no 'danger', this is yet another scaremongering cry about Trump turning the U.S. into Nazi Germany. However I will add that you should only be so lucky for Trump to do what is suggested above, in shutting out non-FOX networks from the White House info pipeline. That would mean that the other networks would be obliged to get their information for themselves from sources, which could possibly mean the re-introduction of actual investigative journalism. This would be far preferable to their current ecosystem of suckling off of statements handed to them by the White House and repeating them to the public.

The funny thing about an ecosystem in media is that they will find a way to occupy whatever niches are available, with the proviso that they'll default to what is a) most profitable, and b) what is easiest. Take away their gravy train of sound bites and they'll have to find another way to find things to report on. Being cut off from the White House sounds like a win for the American people since they would be reading something other than stories fed to the press for a change.

D.W.

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Re: Trump and quasi state controlled media
« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2016, 10:27:09 AM »
This dynamic already existed.  In this one area I believe Trump may have done us a favor.  We are all victims of our own propaganda.  It's not like HE destroyed the integrity of "the news".  He is just the perfect illustration of what happens when you can buffet style consume only the news you find tasty and doesn't upset you.

It's not the state controlling the media we need to worry about.  It's what happens when WE have our hand on the mouse or smartphone instead of tuning into a broadcast or reading a paper to listen to people who are professional reporters who consider it a civic duty as well as a job to keep us informed.

Now we have a wider field all shouting for attention getting a smaller slice of the pie, and our attention, and they choose to pander to what we wanted to hear instead of what we needed to know.  Why?  Because that's apparently what we want.

With a "state controlled media" at least you know what the state wants.  That may be more useful than an echo chamber...

rightleft22

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Re: Trump and quasi state controlled media
« Reply #3 on: November 23, 2016, 12:45:02 PM »
Thanks D.W.  I think your correct about this dynamic already existing however I disagree with Fenring about there not being a danger.

It’s not a Trump issue – it’s a democracy issue - that perhaps more easily seen via the actions of the new administration. 

Something is fundamentally changing with the way in which media (all forms) influences/manipulates and the dangerous part is that I don’t think we understand the changes very well.

I know I don’t understand it.
My sister is pro trump because (I think) she is immersed to pro trump media and any dialog is impossible.    We can only agree not to talk about it.

Seriati

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Re: Trump and quasi state controlled media
« Reply #4 on: November 23, 2016, 12:46:20 PM »
Throughout the campaign Trump has owned the ‘Medias’ ass and in doing so undermined it in ways in that I think undermine democracy. You can’t trust the media but you can trust my media.

What does this even mean?  You have a media figure - Trump - skillfully manipulate a media that was hostile to him on one side, and on the other you have a party that actively colluded behind the scenes with the media to direct favorable coverage, and you think the former is the more dangerous?

Isn't that kind of like saying that Dennis Rodman and Kim Kardasshian's ability to influence media through sensationalism is more dangerous than Roger Ailes ability to directly influence the media?

You can't trust the media period.  They gave up on even trying to be impartial, they gave up on reporting in favor of influencing.  Why do you think "fact checking" became a thing in the first place, isn't that literally what the media should have been doing all along?  And now every media outlet uses "fact checking" as a buzz word to cover the same biased reporting they were doing before.

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Trump is able to use nasty language however if the media reports on the nasty language is it they we are being mean so biased against him.

This is a straw man argument.  No one legitimately argues that the use of nasty language is the premise on which you determine the media's bias.   

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Trump and his followers can revel in not being politically correct but when address Trump and his followers you must use politically correct language and not offend them.  They are not being nasty you are

What evidence of this do you have?  That anyone has been chastised or required not to "offend" Trump or his followers.  The left has correctly been criticized for lying and exaggerating when describing Trump's followers.  For labeling anyone with whom they disagree as a racist, sexist, anti-Semite, etc.  That has nothing to do with your fake issue of being offended by a failure to use politically correct language, and everything to do with lies being asserted as true.

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The word bias now means any reporting/facts that does not support the ‘facts’ I already ‘know’ is biased.

Bull.  The word bias means having a side and selecting how you will cover a situation to favor that side.  It means reporting one "story" versus another "story" based on who they help rather than merit.  It means having days of coverage on a fake story (like say that Trump paid no taxes - which is literally a made up assertion) versus declaring something old news.  All kinds of researchers actually measure the amount of news coverage (by time on air) that stories get, you can actually look at the results if you bother to do so.

I will say this in soft support of your point, a lot of people can not distinguish between facts and opinions with which they happen to agree.  That certainly leads to them believing a story is objective when it contains no real facts, and another story with just as little in the way of fact as being a complete lie.  Obamacare has failed, Obamacare is a great success, neither of those is a fact.

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How do you dialog with a man and hold him accountable when he gets to say whatever he wants, in any manner he wants while you must still play by ‘rules’ soon to be his rules. Why are so many people ok with this?

For one, you've created a false premise.  Your assumptions are not true.  Therefore the question of why they are "okay" with it doesn't really come into play.

I've pointed it out several times, but if you look at what Trump says, you'll see he doesn't say anything and everything at random.  He says outrageous things within  a fairly narrow range.  Specifically, he limits what he says to things for which there is almost no chance there could be a libel charge.  He hurls personal insults frequently, but not ones that could lead to defamation, he doesn't make many accusations either.  He plays out to me as a very bombastic individual who's been heavily coached by a legal team on what he can say.

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Is this a legitimate danger?

There is absolutely no danger that the media is going to roll over and play nice with Trump.  There is no danger that press freedoms will be limited in any material way.  The only real danger to free speech in the last decade has come from the left, with their insistence on safe spaces and attempts to oppress speech they find offensive or just "wrong."

Pete at Home

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Re: Trump and quasi state controlled media
« Reply #5 on: November 23, 2016, 01:03:15 PM »
"He is just the perfect illustration of what happens when you can buffet style consume only the news you find tasty and doesn't upset you."

Agreed except for the word "the" and the singularity. Trump is at best the predominant examplar of a cultural conservative echo chamber.  There are other exemplars for other echo chambers.


D.W.

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Re: Trump and quasi state controlled media
« Reply #6 on: November 23, 2016, 01:16:08 PM »
I can't afford an editor at present, but your correction is appreciated Pete.  :P

AI Wessex

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Re: Trump and quasi state controlled media
« Reply #7 on: November 23, 2016, 01:29:32 PM »
It's one thing to mislead the press or your public support, but this is something new.  I think they provided the full transcript to avoid him saying he didn't say what he said and because you really can't summarize a sideways conversation like this.  Here's a piece of it:

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SHEAR: You’ve talked about the impact of the wind farms on your golf course. People, experts who are lawyers and ethics experts, say that all of that is totally inappropriate, so I guess the question for you is, what do you see as the appropriate structure for keeping those two things separate, and are there any lines that you think you won’t want to cross once you’re in the White House?

TRUMP: O.K. First of all, on countries. I think that countries will not do that to us. I don’t think if they’re run by a person that understands leadership and negotiation they’re in no position to do that to us, no matter what I do. They’re in no position to do that to us, and that won’t happen, but I’m going to take a look at it. A very serious look. I want to also see how much this is costing, you know, what’s the cost to it, and I’ll be talking to you folks in the not-too-distant future about it, having to do with what just took place.

As far as the, you know, potential conflict of interests, though, I mean I know that from the standpoint, the law is totally on my side, meaning, the president can’t have a conflict of interest. That’s been reported very widely. Despite that, I don’t want there to be a conflict of interest anyway. And the laws, the president can’t. And I understand why the president can’t have a conflict of interest now because everything a president does in some ways is like a conflict of interest, but I have, I’ve built a very great company and it’s a big company and it’s all over the world. People are starting to see, when they look at all these different jobs, like in India and other things, number one, a job like that builds great relationships with the people of India, so it’s all good. But I have to say, the partners come in, they’re very, very successful people. They come in, they’d say, they said, ‘Would it be possible to have a picture?’ Actually, my children are working on that job. So I can say to them, Arthur, ‘I don’t want to have a picture,’ or, I can take a picture. I mean, I think it’s wonderful to take a picture. I’m fine with a picture. But if it were up to some people, I would never, ever see my daughter Ivanka again. That would be like you never seeing your son again. That wouldn’t be good. That wouldn’t be good. But I’d never, ever see my daughter Ivanka.

D.W.

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Re: Trump and quasi state controlled media
« Reply #8 on: November 23, 2016, 01:45:20 PM »
What point are you trying to make with that excerpt?  As a middle aged white dude, one of the most frustrating parts of this presidential term is going to be getting use to the way Trump rambles on seemingly nonsensically. 

Was it the, "The president can't have a conflict of interest", comment?  As ignorant as this SOUNDS, it's sorta correct. 

But then there's this...
http://www.npr.org/2016/11/22/503091109/can-trumps-international-business-dealings-violate-the-constitution
Which again, he may be eluding to as far as the photo op comments that maybe don't seem like someone who lost the stream of the conversation after all...

I think on this front, Trump knows exactly what he's talking about.  Too bad the rest of us have to try and piece it together because he can't articulate his way out of a paper bag.

rightleft22

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Re: Trump and quasi state controlled media
« Reply #9 on: November 23, 2016, 01:53:18 PM »
*censored* *censored* *censored*
so frustrated
I can't communicate what I know. Its pointless
We are all *censored*ED

D.W.

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Re: Trump and quasi state controlled media
« Reply #10 on: November 23, 2016, 02:03:48 PM »
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Is this a legitimate danger?
The danger, as AI mentioned in another thread, is mostly a vote AGAINST business as usual.  Trump's mastery over "the media" is the same as an old time circus freak show's mastery over the crowd.  Curiosity, shock and maybe some revulsion with a dash of, "shame on you for gawking!"

He poses no singular danger other than pointing out (to those who were not yet aware) that the voting public has already blurred the lines between entertainment/news/politics.  Is THAT dangerous?  *censored* yes it is!  The danger won't be Trump changing the rules. 

TheDeamon

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Re: Trump and quasi state controlled media
« Reply #11 on: November 23, 2016, 04:44:44 PM »
There is no 'danger', this is yet another scaremongering cry about Trump turning the U.S. into Nazi Germany. However I will add that you should only be so lucky for Trump to do what is suggested above, in shutting out non-FOX networks from the White House info pipeline. That would mean that the other networks would be obliged to get their information for themselves from sources, which could possibly mean the re-introduction of actual investigative journalism. This would be far preferable to their current ecosystem of suckling off of statements handed to them by the White House and repeating them to the public.

The thing I'm more intrigued about is his worry about it NOW, and not 4+ years ago when the Media was flat out saying that the the Obama Administration had by far the best "information control" of any administration in living/active correspondent memory, going back to before the Nixon Administration.

So Obama wasn't spooky after PROOVING he could control what the media knew about what his Administration was up to, but the prospect that Trump might toss everyone out except his preferred media outlets is the thing he fixes on?

TheDeamon

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Re: Trump and quasi state controlled media
« Reply #12 on: November 23, 2016, 04:54:47 PM »
The word bias now means any reporting/facts that does not support the ‘facts’ I already ‘know’ is biased.

Bull.  The word bias means having a side and selecting how you will cover a situation to favor that side.  It means reporting one "story" versus another "story" based on who they help rather than merit.  It means having days of coverage on a fake story (like say that Trump paid no taxes - which is literally a made up assertion) versus declaring something old news.  All kinds of researchers actually measure the amount of news coverage (by time on air) that stories get, you can actually look at the results if you bother to do so.

Actually, "bias" has "traditionally" been the practice of giving emphasis to and playing up facts that support a given position, while doing everything you can to downplay/ignore any evidence contrary to your claims. Failing that, you'll seek to discredit any person(s) likely to bring up any points contrary to your claims/positions.

So they'll report factually true information, but only provide partial (and potentially vital) information. Such as "Black man shoots white male on busy street" and then going into recounting selected portions of the reactions of the bystanders about how horrific the sight was, so on and so forth.

Only to discover the white guy had been hurling racial slurs and was about to attack the black man with an aluminum baseball bat. Changes the narrative just a little bit, doesn't it?

Edit to add: And a really popular tactic the media will use is "Congressional/white house staffers, who wish to remain anonymous, state that....." Where they don't even have to bother to fact check what they're reporting. They're just simply "honestly reporting" what they've been told by their (carefully selected) sources.

Which is also a LOT of what we've seen in the post-election hysterias. "We are seeing a lot of reports coming in through 'social media' that...." Well hey, their source was social media, if it's wrong, well, oops. But since it was "Social Media" that was wrong, they're not culpable for anything, so no need to issue retractions or walk back any of those earlier reports.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2016, 04:59:47 PM by TheDeamon »

Greg Davidson

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Re: Trump and quasi state controlled media
« Reply #13 on: November 23, 2016, 06:23:16 PM »
Here's the first big test... not for Trump, but for the rest of the country. Donald Trump's superpower is that he normalizes the abnormal. He is planning on the greatest level of Presidential corruption in US history - he will have a direct link between his actions after being elected President and the ability of foreign powers to grease skids and funnel money to his businesses. This will not only be an opportunity, it will be an expectation. And this isn't a wild accusation on my part - he's already said that this is his plan. That conflict of interest doesn't apply to the President.

And if he can get away with this - if suddenly this corruption stuff which was hideous when it applied in some never-quite-specified way to Hillary Clinton, now it becomes acceptable, then he has no barriers. 

When the public gets scared, due to some military act or even some terrorist act, who will stand up to him and tell him stop?

TheDeamon

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Re: Trump and quasi state controlled media
« Reply #14 on: November 23, 2016, 07:00:37 PM »
I don't think the Republicans would be shy about impeaching him. In fact, they'd probably prefer Pence over Trump in a lot of ways. If he gives them an actionable reason to send him packing, and the Democrats start making noise about it, Trump will be gone in short order. They're not going to circle the wagons around him.

The Republicans rarely, if ever, circle the wagons to defend anyone. Now if it's to shoot at whatever was just encircled, that's another story.

Pete at Home

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Re: Trump and quasi state controlled media
« Reply #15 on: November 23, 2016, 09:05:41 PM »
I don't think the Republicans would be shy about impeaching him. In fact, they'd probably prefer Pence over Trump

I am stunned that Michael Moore doesn't grasp that when he talks about impeaching Trump.  That's about as smart as invading Iraq and removing Saddam Husein. Moore of all people should grasp that.

Fenring

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Re: Trump and quasi state controlled media
« Reply #16 on: November 23, 2016, 10:50:50 PM »
Which is also a LOT of what we've seen in the post-election hysterias. "We are seeing a lot of reports coming in through 'social media' that...." Well hey, their source was social media, if it's wrong, well, oops. But since it was "Social Media" that was wrong, they're not culpable for anything, so no need to issue retractions or walk back any of those earlier reports.

This is one of the primary trappings of bureaucracy, as the entire structure ends up being based on evasion of responsibility and no one person being accountable for a problem that occurs. Occasionally there is a scapegoat. What this should show us is that the media has finally become part of the bureaucracy, rather than a check against it. This is, perhaps, an even stronger statement than suggesting the media is biased or corrupt.

Fenring

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Re: Trump and quasi state controlled media
« Reply #17 on: November 23, 2016, 10:52:11 PM »
He is planning on the greatest level of Presidential corruption in US history [...] And this isn't a wild accusation on my part - he's already said that this is his plan.

Source on him having said this is his plan?

TheDeamon

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Re: Trump and quasi state controlled media
« Reply #18 on: November 24, 2016, 08:00:59 AM »
Which is also a LOT of what we've seen in the post-election hysterias. "We are seeing a lot of reports coming in through 'social media' that...." Well hey, their source was social media, if it's wrong, well, oops. But since it was "Social Media" that was wrong, they're not culpable for anything, so no need to issue retractions or walk back any of those earlier reports.

This is one of the primary trappings of bureaucracy, as the entire structure ends up being based on evasion of responsibility and no one person being accountable for a problem that occurs. Occasionally there is a scapegoat. What this should show us is that the media has finally become part of the bureaucracy, rather than a check against it. This is, perhaps, an even stronger statement than suggesting the media is biased or corrupt.

I think you'd find it's a large part of why Rush Limbaugh has been calling them "the Drive by media" for the better part of a decade(or longer now?). With intentional allusions to the gang-war tactics of Drive-by shootings.

They'll be alerted to a story, they'll rush to the scene, issue flash reports on the situation, much of which will likely be coming from (highly emotional) interviews of people who know little to nothing about what actually happened, or is going on, they'll quote often anonymous sources, provide lots of conjecture about "what really happened" or what might be going on. But the moment they get wind that the reality of the situation doesn't benefit whatever narrative they're pursuing, they're getting out of there before they have to start walking things back.

Greg Davidson

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Re: Trump and quasi state controlled media
« Reply #19 on: November 25, 2016, 03:12:06 AM »
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Source on him having said this is his plan?

NYT interview

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“The president can't have a conflict of interest”

Fenring

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Re: Trump and quasi state controlled media
« Reply #20 on: November 25, 2016, 08:31:34 AM »
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Source on him having said this is his plan?

NYT interview

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“The president can't have a conflict of interest”

?

rightleft22

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Re: Trump and quasi state controlled media
« Reply #21 on: November 25, 2016, 11:53:21 AM »
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/23/us/politics/trump-new-york-times-interview-transcript.html?_r=0

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TRUMP:"As far as the, you know, potential conflict of interests, though, I mean I know that from the standpoint, the law is totally on my side, meaning, the president can’t have a conflict of interest. That’s been reported very widely. Despite that, I don’t want there to be a conflict of interest anyway. And the laws, the president can’t. And I understand why the president can’t have a conflict of interest now because everything a president does in some ways is like a conflict of interest, but I have, I’ve built a very great company and it’s a big company and it’s all over the world. People are starting to see, when they look at all these different jobs, like in India and other things, number one, a job like that builds great relationships with the people of India, so it’s all good. But I have to say, the partners come in, they’re very, very successful people. They come in, they’d say, they said, ‘Would it be possible to have a picture?’ Actually, my children are working on that job. So I can say to them, Arthur, ‘I don’t want to have a picture,’ or, I can take a picture. I mean, I think it’s wonderful to take a picture. I’m fine with a picture. But if it were up to some people, I would never, ever see my daughter Ivanka again. That would be like you never seeing your son again. That wouldn’t be good. That wouldn’t be good. But I’d never, ever see my daughter Ivanka."

no wonder no one knows what the frack this man is really thinking.

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TRUMP: O.K. Well, I just appreciate the meeting and I have great respect for The New York Times. Tremendous respect. It’s very special. Always has been very special. I think I’ve been treated very rough. It’s well out there that I’ve been treated extremely unfairly in a sense, in a true sense. I wouldn’t only complain about The Times. I would say The Times was about the roughest of all. You could make the case The Washington Post was bad, but every once in a while I’d actually get a good article. Not often, Dean, but every once in awhile.

Look, I have great respect for The Times, and I’d like to turn it around. I think it would make the job I am doing much easier. We’re working very hard. We have great people coming in. I think you’ll be very impressed with the names. We’ll be announcing some very shortly.

little boy: when you write about something I don't like, your bad, biased, mean.  write stuff I like and we will get along....
I will address any issue you write about that I don't like by calling you bad, this lets me off the hook about talking about the issues, but your not bad I respect you except when your bad

Pete at Home

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Re: Trump and quasi state controlled media
« Reply #22 on: November 26, 2016, 11:36:49 PM »
https://www.google.com/amp/www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-conflicts-of-interest-electoral-college-impeachment-obama-bush-ethics-lawyers-norman-a7439516.html%3Famp?client=ms-android-verizon

Trump's remark is almost as stupid as the assessment of the Obama and Bush lawyers that put constitutional interpretation into the hands of the Electoral College rather than the Supreme Court