Author Topic: Holy......  (Read 59072 times)

Gaoics79

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Holy......
« on: November 08, 2016, 09:51:08 PM »
Trump is holding Florida, Ohio, North Carolina, Michigan, Virginia and New Hampshire....

It ain't over obviously, but wow - the blood of many people must be turning cold watching this.

As Wolf Blitzer just noted, this could put the polling industry out of business.

AI Wessex

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Re: Holy......
« Reply #1 on: November 08, 2016, 10:46:42 PM »
It's much closer than I expected.  I'll be stunned if Clinton loses Michigan, which would be the bellwether.

TheDeamon

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Re: Holy......
« Reply #2 on: November 08, 2016, 11:51:45 PM »
News reports back home say they think they might have had a 95% voter turnout in most of Eastern Idaho. So looks like my expectation of low-motivation voters this cycle missed the mark.

Gaoics79

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Re: Holy......
« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2016, 12:01:41 AM »
You can smell it now. Clinton is all but done.

DJQuag

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Re: Holy......
« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2016, 12:06:43 AM »
Brexit part 2, now with nuclear weapons.

D.W.

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Re: Holy......
« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2016, 12:07:37 AM »
Wasn't there suppose to be some voter fraud going on?  Where is my voter fraud?

Worst rigging ever!   :P

DJQuag

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Re: Holy......
« Reply #6 on: November 09, 2016, 12:08:03 AM »
I mean I think that aspect may have been overlooked. We've had worse presidents, definitely, but Andrew Jackson didn't have his finger on the nuclear button.

yossarian22c

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Re: Holy......
« Reply #7 on: November 09, 2016, 12:11:05 AM »
Well ****.

Fenring

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Re: Holy......
« Reply #8 on: November 09, 2016, 12:14:54 AM »
Is it rational to be happy one candidate will lose, even though one is unhappy the other candidate will win?

Gaoics79

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Re: Holy......
« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2016, 12:17:39 AM »
You just summed up my feeling Fenring. I'm simultaneously elated to see Clinton and her supporters go down in flames and terrified at the prospect of 4 years of Trump as President. I can't even stand to listen to that guy speak.

JoshCrow

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Re: Holy......
« Reply #10 on: November 09, 2016, 12:18:44 AM »
Jesus Christ... this is some serious *censored* right here. I don't think this will be good for anybody - even Republicans.

TheDeamon

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Re: Holy......
« Reply #11 on: November 09, 2016, 12:26:45 AM »
You just summed up my feeling Fenring. I'm simultaneously elated to see Clinton and her supporters go down in flames and terrified at the prospect of 4 years of Trump as President. I can't even stand to listen to that guy speak.

Well, you could hope my postulation from earlier in the year is true, and that in the event he wins, he will try to be successfully impeached (or "forced" to resign) as quickly as possible.

Not sure that Pence would be an improvement though.

Gaoics79

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Re: Holy......
« Reply #12 on: November 09, 2016, 12:29:29 AM »
I'm just relieved that it's not likely going to be a tie. The last thing we need is a repeat of 2000.

JoshuaD

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Re: Holy......
« Reply #13 on: November 09, 2016, 12:30:34 AM »
This election.  :o

JoshuaD

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Re: Holy......
« Reply #14 on: November 09, 2016, 12:30:42 AM »
I'm just relieved that it's not likely going to be a tie. The last thing we need is a repeat of 2000.

Ditto.

Wayward Son

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Re: Holy......
« Reply #15 on: November 09, 2016, 12:46:47 AM »
All I can say is I hope Trump supporters will be happy with their choice.  They got their Supreme Court justice(s); they got an anti-immigrant President; they got Obamacare repealed and taxes cut for the rich and maybe even abortion restricted.

But they are also going to get Donald Trump and all his other decisions.  And that's going to get caught in the craw of every American before he's through. :(

cherrypoptart

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Re: Holy......
« Reply #16 on: November 09, 2016, 12:47:50 AM »
Flipping between the news channels with my mom and nephew and we're all laughing at how the non-Fox stations look like they are reporting on their dog just dying or like it's a funeral dirge and then we switch back to Fox and I wouldn't so much say it's upbeat but they are being normal professionals about it. Hopefully behind the scenes many in the media are getting comfort and support to pull them through these trying times, maybe with group hugs and a lot of hand holding. I do wish them well.

cherrypoptart

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Re: Holy......
« Reply #17 on: November 09, 2016, 12:57:23 AM »
I was thinking that a good thing about a Hillary Clinton Presidency is that she will get the blame for the problems just like Trump will get the blame for all the problems on his watch. On the other hand, Democrats don't seem to blame Obama for all the problems we still have, many of which have gotten worse, so I can imagine that Republican Trump supporters won't be keen on blaming Trump either. They'll just say, like with Obama supporters, that the problems were so deep and entrenched that they can't be solved in just four or eight years. Nobody wants to be held responsible or take the blame. That might be harder if Trump wins with a Republican Congress. It's not over though and Hillary could definitely still win. Just saying that so I don't jinx it...

D.W.

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Re: Holy......
« Reply #18 on: November 09, 2016, 12:58:55 AM »
Mostly because on balance, we think Obama has done a kickass job.  :P 
Too bad more people don't realize that.  They could have voted to at least slow the backslide.  Instead they set up an orange slip and slide down the hill by the looks of it.

TheDrake

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Re: Holy......
« Reply #19 on: November 09, 2016, 02:39:22 AM »
I hope I'm wrong about Trump, and I guess I'm going to find out. I will honor the result.

If Trump does what I fear the most, forcing Muslim Americans to register and maybe taking them to camps like FDR or blackballing them like McCarthy, I will peacefully oppose it.

I hope that his supporters will watch for corruption as diligently as they scrutinized Clinton.

I'm saddened that Johnson has not attained the 5% that might offer us more choices in the future.

I wish that we didn't have "winner take all" states, and that more would follow the example of Maine so that 51/49 splits didn't erase the will of almost half of a state's residents.

I hope that Trump finds experienced technocrats to fill his cabinet and other executive branch positions.

I'm looking forward to a boom in late night comedy humor, as long as they can avoid being bitter and caustic.

I hope bombs aren't falling on Iran prior to this time next year.

And I wish I hadn't stayed up late waiting for Trump to speak, because he's milking this.

I think it is going to be weird to have the most recent foreign born first lady since 1829.


TheDrake

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Re: Holy......
« Reply #20 on: November 09, 2016, 02:40:39 AM »
Concession!

Re: Holy......
« Reply #21 on: November 09, 2016, 03:34:45 AM »
It was clearly rigged, Deedub.

This was obviously a conspiracy perpetrated by the same all-powerful cabal which has always controlled the destiny of every democratic society: the Stupidati.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2016, 03:42:45 AM by godsblackestcrow »

fizz

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Re: Holy......
« Reply #22 on: November 09, 2016, 04:23:25 AM »
My comment as an Italian: the silver lining is that at least nobody will be able anymore to mock us for electing Berlusconi. At least he did damages mostly locally...

cherrypoptart

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Re: Holy......
« Reply #23 on: November 09, 2016, 05:14:10 AM »
2016 Trump wins the Presidency

2017 Can he really do that?

2018 I'm glad my district won this year's hunger games.

------------------------------------------

9-11 and 11-9

Very bad numbers for America

------------------------------------------

Cute reddit musings.

AI Wessex

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Re: Holy......
« Reply #24 on: November 09, 2016, 07:00:54 AM »
My hotel room faces west.  I'm going to watch to see if I can see the sun rise out the window.  Good night.

Grant

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Re: Holy......
« Reply #25 on: November 09, 2016, 07:25:39 AM »
Heyyyyyyy!  What the heck's going on in here??? I figured you guys would be setting fire to the place.  Welcome to TrumpWorld everybody!  It kinda like Bizzaroworld and definately aint as cool as Westworld cause Trump aint Anthony Hopkins. 

Grant

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Re: Holy......
« Reply #26 on: November 09, 2016, 08:08:07 AM »
You just summed up my feeling Fenring. I'm simultaneously elated to see Clinton and her supporters go down in flames and terrified at the prospect of 4 years of Trump as President. I can't even stand to listen to that guy speak.

I'm trying to be magnanimous and give him the same benefit and respect I gave President Obama, despite my opposition to his policies.  But (gag) Pressasidedent  attajreiakdgjlka elekttktt trtrrrrrrpttppppppppppdt,  (clears throat), he makes it very difficult.  He's so gauche.  It's really kinda embarrassing. 

Grant

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Re: Holy......
« Reply #27 on: November 09, 2016, 08:15:59 AM »
It was clearly rigged, Deedub.

This was obviously a conspiracy perpetrated by the same all-powerful cabal which has always controlled the destiny of every democratic society: the Stupidati.

You know, I think this is why Trump won.  I think all those people go tired of us, people like you and me, telling them they were stupid, and that he couldn't possibly win.  It wasn't policy or race or any of that stuff.  It was simply the less smart kids in class got fed up with the smarter kids in class and together they collectively gave a big "FU".  They hated you and me more then they cared about politics or policy or anything else.  Maybe calling them stupid isn't the best path to take. 

TheDeamon

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Re: Holy......
« Reply #28 on: November 09, 2016, 08:36:59 AM »
I think a lot of what pushed Trump over the top last night was the "burn it all $%^&ing down" crowd. Electing him was the most surefire way to make the Ivory Tower crowd cry out in despair.

Grant

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Re: Holy......
« Reply #29 on: November 09, 2016, 08:42:52 AM »
I think a lot of what pushed Trump over the top last night was the "burn it all $%^&ing down" crowd. Electing him was the most surefire way to make the Ivory Tower crowd cry out in despair.

I agree.  Now the only question is whether "We Tha People" are content to hold the Bastille or want to start guillotining.

JoshCrow

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Re: Holy......
« Reply #30 on: November 09, 2016, 09:05:35 AM »
Canada's immigration website crashed  :D

TheDeamon

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Re: Holy......
« Reply #31 on: November 09, 2016, 09:10:32 AM »
What they want isn't fully relevant at this point. Trump won. I also don't think his politics fully aligned with theirs. If he's more politically moderate than he campaigned as, this could make for a wild ride in other ways, or not. In reality, this may "ride out" like a "Bill Clinton 2.0" Presidency, only with a Republican spin on it. Which in many respects may be a good thing, depending on the specifics of that "Republican spin."

The US/Mexico "Border Wall" may be one such thing. In some respects, I suspect, hope, and believe, it's never going to be a fully realized physical wall. I think a lot of it is going to be "Virtual" by means of using technology to monitor is very closely.  After all, they'd need to take that step to actually secure the physical construct anyhow. Then it just becomes a matter of enforcing it.

I do think that Trump being in office does significantly increase the odds of meaningful immigration reform happening. The recent reveals with regards to his wife indicate he has a ready, in house(in the same bedroom even) source for referencing just how screwed up our immigration system is in practice. I don't think either party is going to be happy with what he does on that subject, and in that instance, I think that may be a good thing. It's usually a good indicator of a decent compromise being made, and Trump knows business, even if he is a bit partial to Used Car salesman tactics.

Greg Davidson

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Re: Holy......
« Reply #32 on: November 09, 2016, 09:46:03 AM »
Trump won because of the actions of all the eligible voters in the US. The majority did not vote for him, and it appears that Clinton may actually have the support of more American voters, but he won in the electoral college and so that's that.

I just hope that every eligible American voter accepts responsibility for what they did in this election.  In the aggregate, the people always get the government that they deserve. 

rightleft22

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Re: Holy......
« Reply #33 on: November 09, 2016, 09:49:01 AM »
The world has become a more dangerous place.
Fear won - Terrorism wins - Bin laden wins

Shame on America

DJQuag

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Re: Holy......
« Reply #34 on: November 09, 2016, 10:01:33 AM »
Hey UK Imma let you finish but the US had the worst political disaster of all time.

TheDeamon

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Re: Holy......
« Reply #35 on: November 09, 2016, 10:02:27 AM »
Trump won because of the actions of all the eligible voters in the US. The majority did not vote for him, and it appears that Clinton may actually have the support of more American voters, but he won in the electoral college and so that's that.

I just hope that every eligible American voter accepts responsibility for what they did in this election.  In the aggregate, the people always get the government that they deserve.

The vote isn't fully counted yet, and the margin was less the a quarter million votes last I checked(~160,000 vote spread according to CNN as of 9:55AM). Don't count the chickens before they're hatched. Trump may be looking like a possible electoral president at present, but that doesn't mean he cannot resume his position as being the winner of the popular vote as well once every vote is tallied.

The "other thing" is neither candidate attained more than 48% of the vote. So there is a 4 to 5% "Swing" in the mix, where you can't say for certain if that group would prefer Hillary over Trump or not. As a member of that particular group, I can tell you I don't care for either option(which is why I voted how I did), but I lean slightly in favor of Trump if I'm only given that binary choice.

In that respect, I think the McMullin vote in Utah(153,722 votes counted(73% of precincts), as of 5:26AM ET) would likewise have gone for Trump over Clinton otherwise, which nearly vaporizes that 160,000 popular vote margin by itself. Going with those Utah numbers, I think the Johnson vote is also a safe bet to go Trump if forced to chose between Clinton or Trump. That would net another 23,749 potential Trump voters in Utah. So I just closed that Popular vote gap by looking at numbers from just one state.

I'll dig a little more and see if I can't find a meta-site that will give raw popular vote numbers for more than just the top 2 on the national level. I'm not going through and tallying it state by state.

D.W.

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Re: Holy......
« Reply #36 on: November 09, 2016, 10:05:54 AM »
As much as I picked on my friends in the Johnson camp, I have to agree.  Anyone who paid attention to his policies wasn't in the Hillary camp anyhow.

Grant

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Re: Holy......
« Reply #37 on: November 09, 2016, 10:06:33 AM »

In that respect, I think the McMullin vote in Utah(153,722 votes counted(73% of precincts), as of 5:26AM ET) would likewise have gone for Trump over Clinton otherwise, which nearly vaporizes that 160,000 popular vote margin by itself. Going with those Utah numbers, I think the Johnson vote is also a safe bet to go Trump if forced to chose between Clinton or Trump. That would net another 23,749 potential Trump voters in Utah. So I just closed that Popular vote gap by looking at numbers from just one state.


Mmmmmmm.  Not so sure about that.  I'm a McMullin voter, and if he wasn't available, I would have abstained from the Presidential vote.  I would not have voted for Trump.  I will guess that at least 50 to 75 percent of McMullin voters would have done the same, but that's just a WAG based on the other voters I know. 

LetterRip

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Re: Holy......
« Reply #38 on: November 09, 2016, 10:17:21 AM »
Here is what I wrote at Quora,

Quote
I’m not at all surprised, I fully expected this result when Clinton got the nomination.

Contrary to the excuses offered (‘blacklash’, ‘misogyny’) there are quite obvious reasons
1. Supreme Court nominations - the evangelicals want Roe V Wade overturned, and many gun owners don’t want any restrictions on the 2A. This made up probably 50% of Trump voters. There was no comparable interest by democrats.

2. Trade agreements - Clinton’s statements about now being against the TPP had zero credibility, noone from either side believed her, and she was fully expected to pass the TPP once in office. While many are skeptical about Trumps actual likelihood of successfully renegotiating trade agreements, and he may do nothing useful on them, he has far more credibility than Clinton does on the matter.

3. Immigration - contrary to the claims of many democrats - it isn’t racism that drives the interest in border control and deportation. Illegal immigrants compete for construction, domestic help, and other jobs dramatically driving down wages in the industries they provide labor for. This labor competition is especially harmful to lower class African Americans and Hispanics (probably a significant percentage of his AA and Hispanic voters). While Trump’s proposals are ridiculous and likely to be totally ineffective - Clinton was almost certainly going to to do amnesty.

4. Clinton and her behaviour during the campaign - there are a large number of people who despise Clinton and most of the population think she lacks integrity, and she has time and again demonstrated a lack of integrity. She lied about her emails, obviously so. Her campaign and the DNC colluded, her campaign and the media colluded. She has a history of deception.

5. Media collusion and manipulation - noone likes being manipulated and the media obviously had been manipulating things to give Clinton the nomination and to give Trump the nomination. When the emails were leaked confirming this it simply reinforced the obvious.

All of this was obvious early on, long before she won the nomination, miraculously Trump was able to shoot himself in the foot enough that he made it a closer contest than it probably would have been.

So while I’m disappointed - for all her flaws I think she is far preferable to Trump - this was a completely unsurprising result to me, one I’ve been expecting and prepared for since before her nomination.

https://www.quora.com/How-do-you-feel-now-that-Donald-Trump-will-be-our-next-president/answer/Tom-Musgrove

TheDeamon

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Re: Holy......
« Reply #39 on: November 09, 2016, 10:18:51 AM »
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/elections/2016/presidential-election-headquarters

Not quite ideal, but looks like we get the top 5, maybe?

As of 10:07 AM Eastern Time:
Clinton: 59,318,376
Trump: 59,147,808
Stein: 1,198,835
Johnson: 4,020,547
McMullin: 418,311

So the Clinton/Trump margin is 170,568 votes(and evidently, growing)
We'll assuming that of the third party options half of Stein's voters would have gone for Clinton, and the other half remained at home on a Trump or Clinton only choice. We'll then round up to the nearest hundred thousand for simplicity(giving Hillary an additional 822.5 votes) and say 600,000 of Stein's voters would have gone for Hillary(note: I know nothing about Stein, I'm just assuming she was the left-wing third-party option, as I know the other two are right wing)

That brings Hillary up to +770,568 votes against Trump

Now let us look at McMullin and Johnson, we'll be mean here and reflect some of the Never Trump sentiment, and say only 1 in 4 of them will hold their nose and vote Trump in a binary Trump or Hillary choice, the rest will stay home. That still gives Trump an additional 1,109,714 votes. Which we'll round down to 1.1 Million for this comparison.

Last I checked, 1.1 Million is a bigger number than 770,568. So it looks like a VERY probable popular bias in favor of Trump in the popular vote. Even if the raw number says "Hillary gets the popular vote" (with less than half of it)

D.W.

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Re: Holy......
« Reply #40 on: November 09, 2016, 10:26:48 AM »
LR, I think you take each of those points a little further than I'm comfortable with, but they are all good points / analysis.   :-\

scifibum

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Re: Holy......
« Reply #41 on: November 09, 2016, 12:20:17 PM »
It was clearly rigged, Deedub.

This was obviously a conspiracy perpetrated by the same all-powerful cabal which has always controlled the destiny of every democratic society: the Stupidati.

You know, I think this is why Trump won.  I think all those people go tired of us, people like you and me, telling them they were stupid, and that he couldn't possibly win.  It wasn't policy or race or any of that stuff.  It was simply the less smart kids in class got fed up with the smarter kids in class and together they collectively gave a big "FU".  They hated you and me more then they cared about politics or policy or anything else.  Maybe calling them stupid isn't the best path to take. 

I think there's a resentment factor in this result for sure.  It's the only way I can make sense of it. 

I thought the Trump campaign was grasping at straws when they speculated about shy/silent supporters, but there they were.  Not talking to pollsters, just waiting to vote.

I'm having a hard time grasping how early voting and exit polls could be so at odds with the result - but I'm trying to resist tinfoil hat territory.  It's difficult.

Re: Holy......
« Reply #42 on: November 09, 2016, 06:06:20 PM »
Scifi:
Quote
I think there's a resentment factor in this result for sure.
Yes.

Resentment drove the voting choices made by voters this election cycle. But this is nothing new, in and of itself: it is fairly difficult to inspire others with prodigious public policy, but easy enough to inspire others to anger. The adversarial nature of the game makes it more cost effective to establish support by engendering opposition against one's opponent, than by building a platform pretty and sturdy enough to both draw and carry at least a plurality.

Grant:
Quote
I think this is why Trump won.  I think all those people go tired of us, people like you and me, telling them they were stupid, and that he couldn't possibly win.
Well, first and foremost, I'll observe that you don't seem to me as being much like the kind of people who tell others that they're stupid, and I'll point out that I'm not actually like the people who have been saying that he can't win (I won money on this election, which seemed to me to clearly recapitulate the conditions that caused the socially desirable responding bias which confounded polling efforts in Brexit).
Quote
It wasn't policy or race or any of that stuff.  It was simply the less smart kids in class got fed up with the smarter kids in class and together they collectively gave a big "FU".
The second sentence seems to me to be an incredibly apt metaphor for what happened, but I'll note that this that doesn't mean that racism or policy preference has nothing to do with it. After all, less-smart voters have policy preferences too--they're simply less-smart preferences than those of more-smart voters (while I assume that racism is correlated with ignorance, I wouldn't go so far as to assume that racism is as strongly correlated with intelligence--or, in other words: Trump's voters aren't America's best--they're stupid, and they're racist...and some of the racists, I assume, are smart people  ;D).
Quote
They hated you and me more then they cared about politics or policy or anything else.  Maybe calling them stupid isn't the best path to take.
Like I said, you don't strike me as the type to take that tack. And as it happens, I'm not the type to take hate without giving back.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2016, 06:16:33 PM by godsblackestcrow »

Greg Davidson

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Re: Holy......
« Reply #43 on: November 10, 2016, 09:30:07 AM »
The undecideds - those who made up their minds in the 2 weeks before the election - went disproportionately to Trump.  Probably a combination of (1) undecideds ultimately pick change over what they see as more of the same, and (2) a disproportionate focus of media attention on Clinton's weaknesses over Trump's weaknesses due to Comey. Whenever the public directly saw Trump and Clinton (the conventions and the debates), the gap between them went to ~7-8%.  But as the face-to-face disappeared from view, the story of the last two weeks was adverse to Clinton and if that was enough to shift even a quarter of the late deciders, it drove the election.

Fenring

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Re: Holy......
« Reply #44 on: November 10, 2016, 09:55:19 AM »
There are a lot of explanations being offered about why Trump won. Maybe it was the 'rednecks' and 'hillbillies', maybe it was the 3rd party votes, maybe it was racism in America showing its ugly head, maybe it was the FBI, maybe it was etc etc. But let's face it, all of these things may have caused a few fluctuations in the final hour, but they are not why Trump won. He won because the DNC threw the game and blew it. Their grand plan of propping up Hillary, and the tactics they used to do it, resulted in nothing more than undermining their own credibility and driving voters to a man hated by probably over half the country. This isn't a bro-Bernie post, but nevertheless I believe firmly he would have beaten Trump. For whatever they're worth, all analyses I read came to the same conclusion months ago.

There is no one to blame here but the Democratic party. For anyone who feels let down by the results of the election, in my opinion it's no mystery who let you down.

scifibum

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Re: Holy......
« Reply #45 on: November 10, 2016, 11:21:47 AM »
We don't know how the opposition to Bernie would have looked.  It never happened.  The opposition to Hillary was already fully baked, and started decades ago.  So I don't think we can safely say that Bernie would have won, even though we can safely say that the opposition would have looked different from what they (continued to) throw at Hillary.

"Socialism" is a bugbear to many voters, and Hillary probably seemed safe to some people who view Bernie as radical.  On the other hand, Bernie would have appealed to some of Trump's voters on the issues of free trade and overturning the establishment.

We might have had more Democrats in the Senate with Bernie, though, and that might actually be the bigger deal in the long term. 

scifibum

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Re: Holy......
« Reply #46 on: November 10, 2016, 11:26:35 AM »
Quote
There is no one to blame here but the Democratic party. For anyone who feels let down by the results of the election, in my opinion it's no mystery who let you down.

The D turnout was pathetic.  It makes me ashamed.  If you didn't vote just because the candidate wasn't ideal, you suck. 

(Generic you.)

rightleft22

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Re: Holy......
« Reply #47 on: November 10, 2016, 11:37:52 AM »
Hillary hasn't owned her narrative since she became first lady of Alabama. The GOP has owned her ass and why DNC thought they could overcome that is a mystery to me.

I think history will show how much our impression of Hillary was manipulated and how easily we bought into it. The american people were hood winked






cherrypoptart

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Re: Holy......
« Reply #48 on: November 10, 2016, 11:45:06 AM »
One journalist finally gets it:



http://www.cbsnews.com/news/commentary-the-unbearable-smugness-of-the-press-presidential-election-2016/

Will Rahn CBS News

"... This is all symptomatic of modern journalism’s great moral and intellectual failing: its unbearable smugness. Had Hillary Clinton won, there’s be a winking “we did it” feeling in the press, a sense that we were brave and called Trump a liar and saved the republic.

So much for that. The audience for our glib analysis and contempt for much of the electorate, it turned out, was rather limited. This was particularly true when it came to voters, the ones who turned out by the millions to deliver not only a rebuke to the political system but also the people who cover it. Trump knew what he was doing when he invited his crowds to jeer and hiss the reporters covering him. They hate us, and have for some time.

And can you blame them? Journalists love mocking Trump supporters. We insult their appearances. We dismiss them as racists and sexists. We emote on Twitter about how this or that comment or policy makes us feel one way or the other, and yet we reject their feelings as invalid.

It’s a profound failure of empathy in the service of endless posturing. There’s been some sympathy from the press, sure: the dispatches from “heroin country” that read like reports from colonial administrators checking in on the natives. But much of that starts from the assumption that Trump voters are backward, and that it’s our duty to catalogue and ultimately reverse that backwardness. What can we do to get these people to stop worshiping their false god and accept our gospel?

We diagnose them as racists in the way Dark Age clerics confused medical problems with demonic possession. Journalists, at our worst, see ourselves as a priestly caste. We believe we not only have access to the indisputable facts, but also a greater truth, a system of beliefs divined from an advanced understanding of justice.

You’d think that Trump’s victory – the one we all discounted too far in advance – would lead to a certain newfound humility in the political press. But of course that’s not how it works. To us, speaking broadly, our diagnosis was still basically correct. The demons were just stronger than we realized.

This is all a “whitelash,” you see. Trump voters are racist and sexist, so there must be more racists and sexists than we realized. Tuesday night’s outcome was not a logic-driven rejection of a deeply flawed candidate named Clinton; no, it was a primal scream against fairness, equality, and progress. Let the new tantrums commence!..."


It goes on with further very astute insights and self-reflection but I don't feel comfortable copying and pasting the guy's whole article.

rightleft22

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Re: Holy......
« Reply #49 on: November 10, 2016, 11:51:25 AM »
Its been fun if sad watching the pundits who got everything so wrong explain why they got it wrong...  and why they have it right now. Were listening to the same people who were wrong. wtf

There was one that argued this was election were the people wanted change and there was a small debate which confused what the word change meant. One suggested that America decided to take a step back (make america great again) and though that is a change the word regression might have been better. The other argued that america want to change the establishment politics and she would not believe that his change was influenced by racism and misogyny. (both had valid points but I think it would be a mistake that for the 47% it was all one reason or lack of reason)

What caught my attention was the words "would not believe" and that that was why I think so many pundits got it wrong.
They assumed that the american people would in the end be rational, laugh about the absurd and 'could not believe' otherwise and they created polls that confirmed what they believed.  Trump was a joke and the people would see through him this was 2016 after all...

The pundits assume we live in an age of reason we do not.
We live in the information age where truth and fact are relative. We live in the information age were the information can't be trusted.

A friend of mine said he did not trust the media. I asked him where did he get his information from. He replied social media. Basically he didn't trust the media but trusted the media that he did.  There was a moment when he said the words social media that he realized what he just said  wasn't illogical or well reasoned but it quickly faded.

We pick and chose from the vast amounts of information that comes at us and believe that the conclusions we make are fully our own even though that is seldom the case. We are very easily manipulated and the 'strong man' understands that while the 'will not believers' will continue to be surprised.