Author Topic: Cyber Showdown  (Read 56543 times)

Gaoics79

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Re: Cyber Showdown
« Reply #200 on: December 30, 2016, 01:02:19 PM »
I see this as slightly analogous in some ways to the Snowden affair. Some contractor reveals that the NSA was illegally spying on the country for years, that government officials were lying about it to congress, and here we are and not a soul has been punished, who knows if anything has really changed - but don't worry, the government will make sure that Mr. whistleblower is punished for the egregious breach of security that threatens the foundation of our security apparatus, LOL.

Yes yes yes, the DNC lied and conspired to rig their own primary process, but never mind that - we think that Russia may have selectively released hacked e-mails to influence a US. election! AGHAST! That evil Putin! He will destroy the integrity of our democracy!

Gaoics79

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Re: Cyber Showdown
« Reply #201 on: December 30, 2016, 01:12:09 PM »
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Okay, Russia didn't "rig" the election.  But they did interfere with it and that should be a concern. 

No one has stated that it shouldn't be. But if the powers that be want to use this as a pretext to invalidate or undermine the election results, or worse, distract the electorate from their own duplicity, I call that far more "concerning".

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We should be concerned about foreign spy agencies hacking powerful people and exposing their secrets when it benefits them or holding onto them to blackmail them with later.

I guess Hollywood is more adept at spycraft than the U.S. government. What movie did I see this in? Oh yeah, every spy cliche going back 50 years. I just don't understand what about this could possibly be a revelation.

 
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Did there interference change the outcome of the election, I think probably not.


Agreed. So then what do you think the real purpose of this "retaliation" is? I'd have thought the DNC would just get better security.

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Two years of hearing about Clinton's emails and her server, in addition to Comey's statement the weekend before the election made her much more likely to be impacted by these attacks than almost any other candidate would have been.  After two years of hearing about emails, any story with Clinton and emails in the headlines was bad news for her regardless of what the emails revealed or didn't.

Which supports my personal view, which is that if indeed the e-mails did sway the election, that disproportionate impact can only be blamed on HIllary's own misfeasance and that of the DNC. The Russians didn't force her to set up illegal private e-mail servers, and destroy public records. The Russians didn't force the DNC to throw Bernie under the bus. If the public was pre-disposed to think poorly of her in that regard, and this made those e-mails more impactful, well then who should the DNC blame for that?

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The DNC did not "rig" the primary but they were certainly in the Hillary camp. Did anyone really believe otherwise before the emails were leaked?

And we come full circle. The hacks either impacted the election or they didn't. In my mind, both possibilities paint the DNC (and Clinton) in a very very poor light. In answer to your last question, I don't know what Putin's motives may have been precisely (assuming he is the source of the information) nor do I care particularly. Putin is a foreign head of state, not the organization running one of two political parties that together share absolute power over the US. electoral system.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2016, 01:18:32 PM by jasonr »

Pete at Home

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Re: Cyber Showdown
« Reply #202 on: December 30, 2016, 01:14:09 PM »
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38464612

Guess who comes off as magnanimous and presidential?

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Come to the tree'
In a statement on the Kremlin website (in Russian), Mr Putin said: "We won't be expelling anyone.
"We won't be banning their families and children from the places where they usually spend the New Year holidays. Furthermore, I invite all children of American diplomats accredited in Russia to the New Year and Christmas Tree in the Kremlin."
He wished Barack Obama and his family a happy New Year, as well as Mr Trump and "the whole American people".
In a message on the presidential website, Mr Putin said that, with the accession of Mr Trump, "the two states, acting in a constructive and pragmatic manner, can take real steps for restoration of mechanisms for bilateral co-operation".

« Last Edit: December 30, 2016, 01:22:27 PM by Pete at Home »

TheDeamon

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Re: Cyber Showdown
« Reply #203 on: December 30, 2016, 01:20:01 PM »
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Yes, you have been repeating this. You have yet to demonstrate how anything was "sabotaged", even if all allegations about what Russia did are true. If releasing true information is 'sabotage' then we have a problem far worse than Russia on our hands.
The issue is neither the hack nor the release of plausibly true information damaging to Democrats, but the selectivity of the hack-release in order to damage just one Party.  People who support the purported Russian actions are also somehow comfortable that no such hack-release was made about Republicans.  That's why I continually point out the partisan inference for support of the attack against only one Party.

I'm not really seeing the problem here. I'm under no impression that foreign governments are required to be non-partisan in their dealings with my own nations internal politics, or the internal politics of any other nation. I expect they will act in what they view to be their own self-interest. For good, and for ill, so far as it impacts both us and them.

I likewise cannot truthfully get upset at Russia for hacking the DNC servers, as I'm nearly dead certain the United States is still doing the same thing in other nations right now, and has been doing so since there were e-mail servers to hack. As such my "outrage" on that specific matter is rather muted.

I fully support and will go so far as to endorse our own intelligence services continuing to undertake such practices. As such, I'd be a rank hypocrite if I was going to denounce Russia simply on the grounds of their successfully hacking the DNC servers.

Likewise, as previously stated, simply because they had the information does not "prove" that they were the source from which that information became public. That still remains the "weakest leak" in the whole chain that you're going on about.

But even if we suppose that they were the source. The information released was true and accurate as far as we can tell. It isn't misinformation, and it isn't propaganda in any traditional sense of the term. So that further mutes anything I can object over.

That they (might have) released the information is rather gauche and in poor form/taste, but it has been done, and you're pretty much crying over spilled milk. Nothing you or I can do is going to put the genie back in the proverbial bottle.

In a perfect world, "consequences" would be nice, but again, as has also been discussed. I don't think Trump was their ideal candidate either, particularly if he carries out his pledge to rebuild&build up US Military strength. They don't want a stronger US Military in the hands of the next President. It just happens that Hillary Clinton was such an unpalatable candidate that instead of their tendency to stay out of things but generally be quietly supportive of the Democrats, they switched to the Republicans this cycle. They'll probably be back to very quietly supporting the Democrats soon enough, once they get over their current bout of Russo-phobia.

Then again, with how the DNC shifted over the past few years, when paired with where the Russians have gone in the same intervening time, perhaps they have parted ways permanently at this stage. Only time will tell on that front I guess. I'm thinking they're just likely to be more mercenary about which US party they're going to be friendlier towards going forward, they(The Russian Government under Putin) now have some degree of overlap with both parties now, rather than only one.

Pete at Home

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Re: Cyber Showdown
« Reply #204 on: December 30, 2016, 01:25:44 PM »
I also think that it's obvious from anyone with any sort of honest knowledge of international politics that Putin interfered out of fear of Hillary Clinton rather than out of a desire to help Donald Trump. The fact that the CIA is helping to deceive the general public to promote the pro Trump Putin narrative, is profoundly disturbing.

Fenring

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Re: Cyber Showdown
« Reply #205 on: December 30, 2016, 02:12:13 PM »
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The issue is neither the hack nor the release of plausibly true information damaging to Democrats, but the selectivity of the hack-release in order to damage just one Party.  People who support the purported Russian actions are also somehow comfortable that no such hack-release was made about Republicans.  That's why I continually point out the partisan inference for support of the attack against only one Party.

Yes yes yes. Except you ignore the significant possibility that there was simply nothing worth revealing on the Republican side.

The funny thing about this is that a large share of what was revealed from the DNC 'hack' is that they were in the tank for Hillary from the get-go, to the point of Hillary being given license to personally vet content and plant issues in news stories. It's a scandal because the DNC had specifically denied that this was the case, ergo they were lying to their own constituents. But in the case of the GOP they were upfront and open about opposing Trump (their version of Bernie) and were not covertly in the tank for his opponents but in fact made it their public position. What purpose would a hack serve when they were blatantly open about trying to squash Trump as a candidate? If they were lying about something (I don't know what) it certainly wasn't about their allegiance during the election. The entire party and most prominent Republicans were trying to stop Trump winning until the very end, at which point they realized the only thing they could do to win the general was to support him begrudgingly.

Kasandra

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Re: Cyber Showdown
« Reply #206 on: December 30, 2016, 05:00:14 PM »
For the umpteenth and lasteenth time, Sanders was not a Democrat, had no representation in the DNC, was not favored by virtually any Democrat in Congress, did nothing to support any other Democratic Party candidate and raised no money for the Party.  Why is everyone so surprised and disappointed that the Democratic Party establishment was 100% behind the putative leader of the Party who had all of those things on her side?

Pete at Home

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Re: Cyber Showdown
« Reply #207 on: December 30, 2016, 05:02:35 PM »
For the umpteenth and lasteenth time, Sanders was not a Democrat, had no representation in the DNC, was not favored by virtually any Democrat in Congress, did nothing to support any other Democratic Party candidate and raised no money for the Party.  Why is everyone so surprised and disappointed that the Democratic Party establishment was 100% behind the putative leader of the Party who had all of those things on her side?

Answered by Fenring immediately above

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It's a scandal because the DNC had specifically denied that this was the case, ergo they were lying to their own constituents. But in the case of the GOP they were upfront and open about opposing Trump (their version of Bernie) and were not covertly in the tank for his opponents but in fact made it their public position. What purpose would a hack serve when they were blatantly open about trying to squash Trump as a candidate?

Pete at Home

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Re: Cyber Showdown
« Reply #208 on: December 30, 2016, 05:05:38 PM »
Besides, kas, if your position is that we have no reason to be offended, then why make such a big deal about the Russians blowing the lid off the lie?

cherrypoptart

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Re: Cyber Showdown
« Reply #209 on: December 30, 2016, 07:29:16 PM »

>Pete at Home



"Guess who comes off as magnanimous and presidential?"

Yes, indeed. And not just magnanimous but also someone who understands how to play a deep game and not fall for a an obvious gambit, the gambit in this case being Obama's play to sabotage U.S. - Russian relationships for the Trump Presidency, as Obama on his way out is doing everything else he possibly can to sabotage Trump's chances for success, for example taking the unprecedented step of pardoning hundreds of not just drug users but dealers to spike Trump's crime stats, and using the Antiquities Act (a move I wonder if someone saw and copied from The West Wing) in an attempt to take natural resources on public lands out of play for growing the U.S. economy and becoming more energy independent.

Now I'm all for passing laws and having oversight to make sure that corporations who develop land are required to return it to a pristine state when they are done and I'm even in favor of keeping some areas off limits completely, but it's the timing... If this were such a great idea, along with the mass releases of dangerous drug dealers, then Obama could have taken these steps at any time. He could have released hundreds of drug dealers during his first term. He could have set this land aside during his first term too. Why didn't he? The obvious reason is because it might hurt his reelection chances. So if the moves, among many others, are unpopular because of the predictable negative consequences they will have for America why is he leaving Trump stuck with the results?

If sending these diplomat spies back to Russia and closing two Russian spy compounds is such a great idea, why didn't he do it a long time ago? If they are spies then was it okay for them to spy on us for all this time as long as they didn't cost Democrats an election? Putin is outmaneuvering Obama again though by not responding in kind. That's going to make it much easier for Trump to undo Obama's actions which should and will be his first order of business starting day one.

Gaoics79

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Re: Cyber Showdown
« Reply #210 on: December 30, 2016, 08:04:17 PM »
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For the umpteenth and lasteenth time, Sanders was not a Democrat, had no representation in the DNC, was not favored by virtually any Democrat in Congress, did nothing to support any other Democratic Party candidate and raised no money for the Party.  Why is everyone so surprised and disappointed that the Democratic Party establishment was 100% behind the putative leader of the Party who had all of those things on her side?

Sanders followed the DNC's rules in seeking the leadership position. He did what he was supposed to do and had immense popular support in the party rank and file, yet you suggest that it is the DNC's perogative to stack the deck against him and lie about it.

I recall no provision of the Constitution granting a specific political party eternal power to choose the President in an entrenched two party system. Is this the system that was intended or chosen by the people or was it constructed by the DNC and the RNC to serve themselves?

In my view the ability for outsiders with popular support like Trump and Sanders to ascend to leadership in the major parties is not some whim of the political party estaishment, but a necessary component of the unwritten covenent they have with the people they receive in exchange for duopaly status and essential exclusive control over (and integration into) the machinery of government.

They trifle with that covenent at the peril of their own legitimacy.

rightleft22

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Re: Cyber Showdown
« Reply #211 on: December 30, 2016, 10:22:46 PM »
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U.S. President-elect Donald Trump on Friday praised Russian President Vladimir Putin for refraining from retaliation in a dispute over spying and cyber attacks, in another sign that the Republican plans to patch up badly frayed relations with Moscow.

"Great move on delay (by V. Putin) - I always knew he was very smart!" Trump wrote on Twitter from Florida, where he is on vacation.
Trump has repeatedly praised Putin and nominated people seen as friendly toward Moscow to senior administration posts

no surprise

Trump calls on Russia to hack Hillary during the election and now call such hacking ridiculousness - collusion?
« Last Edit: December 30, 2016, 10:25:32 PM by rightleft22 »

Kasandra

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Re: Cyber Showdown
« Reply #212 on: December 30, 2016, 10:23:39 PM »
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I recall no provision of the Constitution granting a specific political party eternal power to choose the President in an entrenched two party system. Is this the system that was intended or chosen by the people or was it constructed by the DNC and the RNC to serve themselves?
Focus on the highlighted text.  A political Party is just a club that makes its own rules.  For all I know you have to wear monogrammed underwear to the leadership meetings and Sanders never wore his.  Tough luck, read the rules next time.

As for Trump, I give him tremendous credit for steering through the process and not only surviving but winning.  Perhaps that quality (whatever it is) is what scares me the most about him.  He may somehow keep avoiding Scylla and never crash into Charybdis and our ship will be the one wrecked.

rightleft22

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Re: Cyber Showdown
« Reply #213 on: December 30, 2016, 10:42:42 PM »
Trump 'win by any means' necessary has undermined the very position he won.
I cannot envision how he can be effective, eventually his past, that his base have been able to overlook, should catch up with him. 
The man has actually called for a foreign government to hack a citizen and got away with it... for now.
If Benghazi never went away, this hacking scandal should dog him.
How can america trust a man who has sunk so low.
 
I have little expectation that the american faith in the electoral system will be restored  by the next Election. I suspect it will only get worse.

Putin is no doubt enjoying this. 

TheDeamon

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Re: Cyber Showdown
« Reply #214 on: December 31, 2016, 12:34:40 AM »
Trump calls on Russia to hack Hillary during the election and now call such hacking ridiculousness - collusion?

No. And you're deliberately misconstruing on what he asked the Russians to do. Something which was already recently visited in this same thread:

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“Russia, if you’re listening, I hope you’re able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing,” Mr. Trump said during a news conference here in an apparent reference to Mrs. Clinton’s deleted emails. “I think you will probably be rewarded mightily.”

Personally, I wouldn’t spend much time defending Russia or Trump on this one as it will just make it harder to deal with the cognitive dissidence when the pendulum swings in the other direction and you need to condemn Russia, spying and hacking.

 ::) ??? :o

Someone fails at rhetoric, and humor.

He didn't call on Russia to hack Hillary Clinton's Presidential campaign. He asked Russia to "help find the 30,000 missing(deleted) emails" from her time as Secretary of State, emails, which according to law, should be a matter of Public Record, even if they're to remain classified for the next 50+ years.

As the E-mails were reported as having been deleted, and were thus no longer available, his request was essentially a rhetorical joke on multiple fronts.

1) That if the Russians did produce the e-mails, it would mean her private server wasn't secure at all, and it was in fact a national security risk/breach, since the Russians were reading those e-mails.
2) That the Russians provided "Technical assistance" in "recovering deleted files" in a US Legal case would be pretty freaking funny.
3) That the "hack" involved in obtaining said files presumably happened years ago. Prior to any requests for those e-mails being made by way of court order, or Federal investigation. After all, we've been told the files no longer exist, and haven't existed for some time. Which means that if the Russians have them, they obtained them before they were deleted.

Unless of course you're implying that Hillary actually does continue to have copies of those 30,000 "deleted emails" and that she is deliberately in non-compliance with a standing court order and Federal Investigators which have outstanding requests for them to be produced.

Fenring

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Re: Cyber Showdown
« Reply #215 on: December 31, 2016, 12:48:20 AM »
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I recall no provision of the Constitution granting a specific political party eternal power to choose the President in an entrenched two party system. Is this the system that was intended or chosen by the people or was it constructed by the DNC and the RNC to serve themselves?
Focus on the highlighted text.  A political Party is just a club that makes its own rules.

You are deep into the motte and bailey tactic here. If the parties are "just a club" then you should have no problem with Russia messing around with a private club, since that has nothing to do with the Federal government or national security. And if Russia messing with them is a problem then they are not 'just a club.'

Gaoics79

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Re: Cyber Showdown
« Reply #216 on: December 31, 2016, 12:57:26 AM »
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Focus on the highlighted text.  A political Party is just a club that makes its own rules.  For all I know you have to wear monogrammed underwear to the leadership meetings and Sanders never wore his.  Tough luck, read the rules next time.

Hahah, just a little "club" that runs the US government, that's all :)

TheDeamon

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Re: Cyber Showdown
« Reply #217 on: December 31, 2016, 01:30:21 AM »
He didn't call on Russia to hack Hillary Clinton's Presidential campaign. He asked Russia to "help find the 30,000 missing(deleted) emails" from her time as Secretary of State, emails, which according to law, should be a matter of Public Record, even if they're to remain classified for the next 50+ years.

As the E-mails were reported as having been deleted, and were thus no longer available, his request was essentially a rhetorical joke on multiple fronts.

1) That if the Russians did produce the e-mails, it would mean her private server wasn't secure at all, and it was in fact a national security risk/breach, since the Russians were reading those e-mails.
2) That the Russians provided "Technical assistance" in "recovering deleted files" in a US Legal case would be pretty freaking funny.
3) That the "hack" involved in obtaining said files presumably happened years ago. Prior to any requests for those e-mails being made by way of court order, or Federal investigation. After all, we've been told the files no longer exist, and haven't existed for some time. Which means that if the Russians have them, they obtained them before they were deleted.

Unless of course you're implying that Hillary actually does continue to have copies of those 30,000 "deleted emails" and that she is deliberately in non-compliance with a standing court order and Federal Investigators which have outstanding requests for them to be produced.

On further thought, I guess this needs further consideration. Trump's "request for Russian assistance" regarding the 30,000 deleted emails is constantly pointed to by Democrats as him giving permission for Russia to hack the DNC, and Clinton campaign's email servers. Logically speaking, that would imply that the Democrats making such a claim believe there are copies of those 30,000 deleted e-mails waiting to be found on said e-mail servers.

I'm now very interested in wanting to know what leads them to believe that those 30,000 e-mails might be found there, and would like to know why these very conscientious Democratic Party advocates aren't doing more to help Hillary Clinton comply with meeting compliance with several outstanding court orders, as evidently those deleted e-mails seem to not be as deleted as we've been told.  ;D 

But in a more serious vein, going back to the first point, rather than the third one. That Russia didn't produce copies of the 30,000 missing e-mails does tend to indicate that either Russia never found its way into Hillary private e-mail server, or they weren't the source of the leaks this election cycle.

Does anybody seriously believe Hillary Clinton could have survived the political ----storm that likely would have followed had the Russians admitted that they had been reading the emails on that server? I'm pretty sure that would have a near instant kill on Hillary's political future right then and there. It would have gone from a fairly mild political scandal to full blown National Security incident/disaster in no time flat, to the point where the FBI would have a damn near impossible time not pressing criminal charges against her, and presumably many members of her staff as well.

Kasandra

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Re: Cyber Showdown
« Reply #218 on: December 31, 2016, 03:00:39 AM »
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You are deep into the motte and bailey tactic here. If the parties are "just a club" then you should have no problem with Russia messing around with a private club, since that has nothing to do with the Federal government or national security. And if Russia messing with them is a problem then they are not 'just a club.'
Nice try, but by your "logic" Russia is just an example of a group that tries to influence or steal the election.  Would you care if the mafia or Goldman Sachs did it instead of Russia?

TheDeamon

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Re: Cyber Showdown
« Reply #219 on: December 31, 2016, 04:43:17 AM »
Pretty sure at least one of those two groups did. But they're U.S. citizens and legally allowed to participate, so influence they can do.

Mynnion

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Re: Cyber Showdown
« Reply #220 on: December 31, 2016, 06:59:25 AM »
I am pretty much disgusted with both sides in this argument.

The DNC significantly favored Clinton over Sanders and manipulated the primary.  True and problematic and all involved should be held accountable.
Trump called for the Russians to hack Clinton.  Stupid statement for a candidate but only those with an axe to grind believe he was serious.
Russia hacked the DNC servers and selectively released damaging emails.  Problematic and should be fully investigated.
Comey - Reopened the email investigation days before the election.  Problematic and should be investigated to determine if this was done for partisan reasons.

Trump won the election.  Fact.  Unless a credible case of massive voter fraud existed all of the above are meaningless to the outcome but should be meaningful in insuring the long term integrity of our system.  It is time for all of the Obama supporters who complained (rightly in many cases) about the GOP obstructionism to stop pulling the same thing with Trump before he is even sworn in.  If he acts in an illegal or unethical manner once in office then hopefully the system will take care of it.  No one says you have to like him or support his policies (I know I don't) but like it or not he represents roughly half the population and they also have a right to be heard.

Kasandra

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Re: Cyber Showdown
« Reply #221 on: December 31, 2016, 07:20:41 AM »
Yes, but ______ (you can fill in the blank)

DJQuag

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Re: Cyber Showdown
« Reply #222 on: December 31, 2016, 07:46:25 AM »
Aww, boo hoo hoo.

Guess what. The two candidates who had the best chance of winning, they were outside of the parties. Trump and Sanders. But they clung on. They exceeded what was expected from them. And Trump won.

I the same as the rest of you know that Trump will be an unmitigated disaster.  He'll be impeached within two years. Possibly one. It's the only reason that Pence took a chance with him.

Fact of the matter is both parties had anti establishment candidates, and one of them defeated the sabotage of his party and won the election. The other party had "more control" and ensured that their heir apparent was offered up to take the throne.

Whether old people like it or not, young and stupid and yes, uninformed,  voters are suffering from the state of the economy and the state of the country. Anyone connected to that or what led to that is suspect. My lips to god's ears, I hope the next line of Democrats accepts that and offers up people who might actually win.

Mynnion

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Re: Cyber Showdown
« Reply #223 on: December 31, 2016, 08:52:44 AM »
Kasandra-Yes, but ______ (you can fill in the blank)

There is no but.  Trump won with the rules currently in place.  We could have a big discussion about the popular vote Vs the Electoral vote or whether the hacking or last minute email investigation impacted the results but it doesn't matter.  Trump will be the next president short of a sudden illness or death.  If you are unhappy with the system work to change it.  Sorry if this sounds blunt and believe me when I say I share your disappointment and fears of a Trump presidency.  I just think all the current attacks on the validity of the Trump win are similar to those against Obama. 
« Last Edit: December 31, 2016, 08:55:36 AM by Mynnion »

Fenring

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Re: Cyber Showdown
« Reply #224 on: December 31, 2016, 08:53:45 AM »
Quote
You are deep into the motte and bailey tactic here. If the parties are "just a club" then you should have no problem with Russia messing around with a private club, since that has nothing to do with the Federal government or national security. And if Russia messing with them is a problem then they are not 'just a club.'
Nice try, but by your "logic" Russia is just an example of a group that tries to influence or steal the election.  Would you care if the mafia or Goldman Sachs did it instead of Russia?

Huh? Goldman Sachs does do it. I can't say what the mafia does but that wouldn't surprise me either. In modern times, though, the mafia has learned that the best place to be is part of the government, not opposed to it.

Pete at Home

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Re: Cyber Showdown
« Reply #225 on: December 31, 2016, 11:25:29 AM »
I am pretty much disgusted with both sides in this argument.

The DNC significantly favored Clinton over Sanders and manipulated the primary.  True and problematic and all involved should be held accountable.
Trump called for the Russians to hack Clinton.  Stupid statement for a candidate but only those with an axe to grind believe he was serious.
Russia hacked the DNC servers and selectively released damaging emails.  Problematic and should be fully investigated.
Comey - Reopened the email investigation days before the election.  Problematic and should be investigated to determine if this was done for partisan reasons.

Trump won the election.  Fact.  Unless a credible case of massive voter fraud existed all of the above are meaningless to the outcome but should be meaningful in insuring the long term integrity of our system.  It is time for all of the Obama supporters who complained (rightly in many cases) about the GOP obstructionism to stop pulling the same thing with Trump before he is even sworn in.  If he acts in an illegal or unethical manner once in office then hopefully the system will take care of it.  No one says you have to like him or support his policies (I know I don't) but like it or not he represents roughly half the population and they also have a right to be heard.

All espionage should be investigated.  Even "embarrassment espionage," which is the least damaging sort.  No espionage is causa beli, even nuclear espionage, which is the most damaging sort.  And no one except North Korea expels THIRTY FIVE diplomats and their families over an embarrassment espionage incident.

Secure your servers and either stop behaving shamefully, or stop covering your shame.  (Trump's the proof that carrying your shame out in the open is less damaging).

Let's turn things around, shall we?

Let's imagine that Hillary Clinton called on China and North Korean hackers to obtain Donald Trump's income tax information.  Let's suppose they did, and obtained highly damaging information that made Trump look bad.  Republicans scream treason, and call for an investigation of the hack.  Trump exposes 35 Chinese diplomats and their families just before the Chinese New Year.  Riddle me this, Kasandra: in my hypo, who would look like the biggest poop-hole?

Pete at Home

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Re: Cyber Showdown
« Reply #226 on: December 31, 2016, 11:47:44 AM »
^^^Trump EXPELLS 35 ..

Kasandra

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Re: Cyber Showdown
« Reply #227 on: January 01, 2017, 08:58:23 AM »
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Aww, boo hoo hoo.
I didn't mean to upset you.  Sanders could have won, and so could Cruz.  For that matter, so could I (not you, because you were not natural born around these parts).  Retrodicting who would have won is like what Pauli said about a paper by one of his students, "This is not right, it's not even wrong". All that matters is that you feel in your heart that you're right.

Happy New Year, we'll need it.

Kasandra

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Re: Cyber Showdown
« Reply #228 on: January 01, 2017, 09:18:24 AM »
Kasandra-Yes, but ______ (you can fill in the blank)

There is no but.  Trump won with the rules currently in place.  We could have a big discussion about the popular vote Vs the Electoral vote or whether the hacking or last minute email investigation impacted the results but it doesn't matter.  Trump will be the next president short of a sudden illness or death.  If you are unhappy with the system work to change it.  Sorry if this sounds blunt and believe me when I say I share your disappointment and fears of a Trump presidency.  I just think all the current attacks on the validity of the Trump win are similar to those against Obama.
I think you misappreciate what I was saying.  Trump was duly and legally elected, I don't expect his mental illness to prevent him being sworn in ***, I would like the EC to stay but to do the job it was intended to do, I will work for political action this year, I'm glad that almost nobody here defends Trump or looks toward his reign with hopeful anticipation.

*** Trump's New Year Eve morning tweet: "Happy New Year to all, including to my many enemies and those who have fought me and lost so badly they just don't know what to do. Love!"

rightleft22

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Re: Cyber Showdown
« Reply #229 on: January 01, 2017, 11:53:36 AM »
Quote
"Happy New Year to all, including to my many enemies and those who have fought me and lost so badly they just don't know what to do. Love!"
OMG

rightleft22

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Re: Cyber Showdown
« Reply #230 on: January 01, 2017, 12:12:52 PM »
Why are reporters and Americans still asking trump about the hacking?
Trump asked for Russian help during the election and if he got it or not I would think that that fact disqualifies him having a say as to if it happened at not.

Quote
“I think it’s unfair if we don’t know. It could be somebody else. I also know things that other people don’t know so we cannot be sure.
“And so I want them to be sure. I think it’s unfair if they don’t know. And I know a lot about hacking. And hacking is a very hard thing to prove.
“So it could be somebody else. And I also know things that other people don’t know, and so they cannot be sure of the situation.”

He “knows a lot about hacking” and he “know things that other people don’t know” and Americans are supposed to trust him? Those statements could also indicate he new exactly what was going on and perhaps knows how difficult hacking was or maybe hes tried to uses it as a tool in his business dealings so he knows things.

Then of course, his go to blame the victim redirect, don’t use computers to communicate they’re not safe. 

The absurdity.  This is the man America chose to lead them to be Great again. Good luck Happy New Year


Pete at Home

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Re: Cyber Showdown
« Reply #231 on: January 01, 2017, 12:18:42 PM »
Quote
"Happy New Year to all, including to my many enemies and those who have fought me and lost so badly they just don't know what to do. Love!"
OMG

You been Trumped.

I don't think Trump or the Breitbart dude is Hitler, but like Hitler, he's laid out his strategy in the open and his enemies are too dumb to pick up on it.  Read the Darth Vader remarks in the original, rather than the leftist-expurgated crap you'be been fed, and get a grasp of how he's kicking your asses. You are totally handing it to him, and that's scary.