Destruction and theft of cultural heritage

[Kasandra]

Smarmy: Making smarmalade with smarm.
Smarmalade: Word salad containing smarm.
Smarm: See smarm.

[wmLambert]

define smarmy

Yes, Cultural Racism is a smarmy thing. No argument there, Why is it the smarmy ones who think they can get away with such behavior by doubling down on it never get it?

[Kasandra]

We continue, HBO Max Removes Civil War Epic 'Gone With the Wind'

Long considered controversial for its depiction of Black people and its positive view of slavery, Gone With the Wind faced renewed scrutiny after an op-ed by 12 Years A Slave screenwriter John Ridley published in the Los Angeles Times on Tuesday. In the op-ed, Ridley called on HBO Max to "consider removing" Gone With the Wind from its platform as the film had its "own unique problem." "It doesn’t just “fall short” with regard to representation. It is a film that glorifies the antebellum south. It is a film that, when it is not ignoring the horrors of slavery, pauses only to perpetuate some of the most painful stereotypes of people of color," Ridley wrote.

The books are still out there, better burn them.

On Wednesday, the new streaming service HBO Max temporarily removed the 1939 classic “Gone With the Wind” from its lineup, announcing that they intend to bring it back with added material discussing the racist characterizations of enslaved plantation workers. The move came in response to an essay written by screenwriter John Ridley in the Los Angeles Times, in which he reminded HBO Max — owned by Warner Media, which also holds the rights to “Gone With the Wind” — that “when it is not ignoring the horrors of slavery,” the film “pauses only to perpetuate some of the most painful stereotypes of people of color.”

[DonaldD]

define smarmy

Yes, Cultural Racism is a smarmy thing. No argument there, Why is it the smarmy ones who think they can get away with such behavior by doubling down on it never get it?

Are you trying to make yourself sound like Papa Smurf, or are you actually oblivious?

[Crunch]

Rioters in Philly deface a statue of Matthias Baldwin, an early abolitionist who fought against slavery 30 years before it ended.

Sooner or later, the mob comes for everyone.

[wmLambert]

https://patriotpost.us/opinion/71233

The crisis of the coronavirus-induced economic lockdown and now the violent protests in the streets have unleashed a depression-level financial crisis and unprecedented human suffering — especially in our inner cities. These events have also exposed a Grand Canyon-sized chasm that now separates how the left and the right see America today. To wit:

No. 1: The right believes that stay-at-home orders and social distancing requirements are counterproductive and should be repealed safely and immediately. The left believes that those orders must stay in place but should only apply to those on the right, not to liberal protesters.

No. 2: The right engages in nonviolence. The left shows tacit support for mob violence.

No. 3: The right believes the best way to revive the economy is to incentivize a dormant workforce to get back on the job. The left believes that the best way to revive the economy is to pay people more money not to work than to work.

No. 4: When the right protests against injustice, such as 40 million people losing their jobs due to lockdowns, it is always during the light of day so they can be seen and heard. The left protests in the dark so people can’t see what crimes some of the protestors are committing.

No. 5: When the right attends rallies, they carry the American flag. When the left protests (and riots), the only American flags you see are burned.

No. 6: The right believes there are limits to how much governments can spend and borrow to avoid national bankruptcy and financial ruin. The left believes that trillions of dollars of added spending and debt are advisable and benign.

No. 7: When the right holds rallies, the protesters clean up after themselves. When the left protests, they ransack and burn their neighborhoods, spray-paint obscene graffiti and leave a mess of litter and trash everywhere for someone else to clean up. Yet leftists say they are the environmentalists.

No. 8: The right stands in support of small-business people’s rights and has been asking businesses like hardware stores, run by immigrants or other minority owners, to open up. The left’s rallies lead to looting and burning down the hardware stores.

No. 9: The right believes the best way to get people back to work is by getting money straight to people’s paychecks through a payroll tax cut. The left thinks the best course is to give money to mayors, governors and other politicians.

No. 10: The right wants to help prevent racism in urban police forces by firing incompetent and bigoted police officers. The left stands by the unions, which prevent police from being fired.

No. 11: The right wants to make America look like Florida and Texas. The left wants the rest of the nation to look like New York and Illinois – which are crumbling from rioting, lockdowns, high taxes and an accelerating stampede of businesses leaving the state.

Those are the monumentally important choices America faces. This is what the 2020 elections are all about on Nov. 3.

COPYRIGHT 2020 CREATORS.COM

[Fenring]

Ah, finally, a non-partisan take on the situation [tension headache relaxes]

[DonaldD]

wmLambert, is that meant to ridicule the supposed "right", or are you inadvertently parodying "the right" with that post?

[wmLambert]

wmLambert, is that meant to ridicule the supposed "right", or are you inadvertently parodying "the right" with that post?

Do you really challenge any of those points? Ridicule and charges of parody don't cut it.

Let's look t just No. 2. Do you or don't you see the coverage of protests in general? Do you follow the knee-jerk complicit news reaction to protests that say: "both sides do it!'? Maybe you don't notice the news articles that mention how legal, licensed protests are well-mannered and self-policed, but when Left-wing activists gather to get in front of he news cameras, all Hell breaks loose? Have you seen the undercover videos of AntiFa training where they are encouraged to harm others and use violence?

Just wondering how smarmy smugness can look down at those who do it right, and ignore all the perfidy on the Left. Then laugh at those who call you out on it?

[Kasandra]

It's a good primer on self-serving and delusional right wing propaganda, so thanks for sharing!

[wmLambert]

Ah, finally, a non-partisan take on the situation [tension headache relaxes]

Interesting. Your take is that the website that posted the points is conservative, which them somehow makes it incorrect and bothers you head. Can you argue that point No. 7 is wrong? Or do you deny that those who "ransack and burn their neighborhoods, spray-paint obscene graffiti and leave a mess of litter and trash everywhere for someone else to clean up" are not on the Left? My point is that the issue is irrelevant or secondary, no matter how spotlighted the Left can present it. The real goal is not redress of victimization, but pure savagery to threaten others to acquiesce to your own perceived power base. {Do it my way or else?"

[Kasandra]

One of your big gripes is that they aren't tidy? . Charlottesville, post-demonstration 2017:

But as the sky lightened on a cloudy Sunday morning, the statue of Robert E. Lee on horseback — ostensibly the reason for the clashes — seemed to be surveying a battlefield still strewn with the debris from Saturday's conflagration. And what was left behind tells much about Charlottesville's angriest day.

I don't know how you can stand the mess!

[wmLambert]

It's a good primer on self-serving and delusional right wing propaganda, so thanks for sharing!

You can't be so clueless. Do any of those spray-painted monuments to Civil Rights leaders who were defaced and torn down mean nothing to you? Why support the terrorism? That is on you, and I am calling you out on it.

It is not the Right doing this. It is not Trump's words or actions that cause it. It is purely the Left spoiling for a fight. Like you. We Await your smarminess and insult. Unless you have some logic you can provide?

[Kasandra]

It's a good primer on self-serving and delusional right wing propaganda, so thanks for sharing!

You can't be so clueless. Do any of those spray-painted monuments to Civil Rights leaders who were defaced and torn down mean nothing to you? Why support the terrorism? That is on you, and I am calling you out on it.

It is not the Right doing this. It is not Trump's words or actions that cause it. It is purely the Left spoiling for a fight. Like you. We Await your smarminess and insult. Unless you have some logic you can provide?

As ever, wmLambert, your thought process is so psychophantically twisted that no response is justified or worth making.

[TheDrake]

No. 5: When the right attends rallies, they carry the American flag. When the left protests (and riots), the only American flags you see are burned.

And Confederate flags.

[wmLambert]

One of your big gripes is that they aren't tidy? . Charlottesville, post-demonstration 2017:

But as the sky lightened on a cloudy Sunday morning, the statue of Robert E. Lee on horseback — ostensibly the reason for the clashes — seemed to be surveying a battlefield still strewn with the debris from Saturday's conflagration. And what was left behind tells much about Charlottesville's angriest day.

I don't know how you can stand the mess!

More proof. The "Unite the Right" rally was hardly a Right-wing protest - regardless of the sloganeering. The KKK, David Duke, and all those White Supremacists are dyed-in-the-womb Democrats who eschew the correct nomenclature. It plays better on the six O'clock news to call yourself Right, when you're really Left. Projecting is not an answer. The GOP is the party of Lincoln and MLK, Jr. It was never the party of David Duke or any Left-wing sycophants. The Democrats invented the "Nixon Southern Strategy" to pretend the Right turned into its opposiite. It never did. In fact, the Democrats who were always the party opposed to Civil Rights never changed its stripes either.

What is more important, the rally was designed to grab attention and give the Left an excuse to riot and cause problems. Of course they did, and left behind the trash that is their trademark. No one on the Right did that. Thank you for pointing that out.

[Fenring]

Ah, finally, a non-partisan take on the situation [tension headache relaxes]

Interesting. Your take is that the website that posted the points is conservative, which them somehow makes it incorrect and bothers you head. Can you argue that point No. 7 is wrong? Or do you deny that those who "ransack and burn their neighborhoods, spray-paint obscene graffiti and leave a mess of litter and trash everywhere for someone else to clean up" are not on the Left? My point is that the issue is irrelevant or secondary, no matter how spotlighted the Left can present it. The real goal is not redress of victimization, but pure savagery to threaten others to acquiesce to your own perceived power base. {Do it my way or else?"

Asking whether the points are accurate is almost beside the point. We could debate each one, you wouldn't give way, but we could bypass that. It's easy enough for me to see plenty criticize on the right, and plenty on the left. One may be more in the news one day but that doesn't matter. Even an entirely accurate list of complaints against the left still makes it propaganda if only criticisms towards one side are presented. I could make you a long list taking both sides to the trash bin. But you don't do that because your side is always right and the other side always wrong. So that's how we know it's partisan; you're in this to win, not to find common ground. That's not irrelevant, and even though in it to win have things to say that matter, they just cannot see the box they're stuck in.

[DonaldD]

"it's not the Left doing this. It is Trump's words and actions that cause it.  It is purely the Right kneeling on civilians necks, lynching black joggers, accosting Americans and telling them to go back to China, attacking peaceful protesters to clear a path for the Dear Leader to wave an upside down Bible in front of a church..."

See how silly that is?

[wmLambert]

No. 5: When the right attends rallies, they carry the American flag. When the left protests (and riots), the only American flags you see are burned.

And Confederate flags.

Neh, more posers acting like idiots looking for publicity does not a Right-winger make.

Are you suggesting it's okay for the Left to burn both Current American flags, as well as historic American Confederate flags? I guess book burning and vandalizing our history will make it all history go away? I understand much is not taught in school, but you can't erase history. It needs to be there for history to be understood.

[wmLambert]

"it's not the Left doing this. It is Trump's words and actions that cause it.  It is purely the Right kneeling on civilians necks, lynching black joggers, accosting Americans and telling them to go back to China, attacking peaceful protesters to clear a path for the Dear Leader to wave an upside down Bible in front of a church..."

See how silly that is?

No. My point was accurate, yours is just smarmy projection aimed to portray sardonic but invalid irony. Derek Chauvin kneeled on Floyd's neck - not the Right. Why do Leftist apologists believe they can nitpick history to score points? Look at those points I posted. Don't they embarrass you because you have no answer?

[Kasandra]

"it's not the Left doing this. It is Trump's words and actions that cause it.  It is purely the Right kneeling on civilians necks, lynching black joggers, accosting Americans and telling them to go back to China, attacking peaceful protesters to clear a path for the Dear Leader to wave an upside down Bible in front of a church..."

See how silly that is?

I didn't bother to make the effort this time, but it's just as illuminating to switch left <-> right everywhere and like magic it works just as well .

[TheDrake]

No. 5: When the right attends rallies, they carry the American flag. When the left protests (and riots), the only American flags you see are burned.

And Confederate flags.

Neh, more posers acting like idiots looking for publicity does not a Right-winger make.

Are you suggesting it's okay for the Left to burn both Current American flags, as well as historic American Confederate flags? I guess book burning and vandalizing our history will make it all history go away? I understand much is not taught in school, but you can't erase history. It needs to be there for history to be understood.

They are posing, but for the camera. Councilwoman backed by big money donors and the Lt. Governor.

Nobody is talking about taking the confederate flag out of history books, museums, and other historical contexts. We just don't want it flying over public buildings. It should be history, not current events. It should be soberly contemplated, not admired and revered.

[TheDeamon]

One of your big gripes is that they aren't tidy? . Charlottesville, post-demonstration 2017:

But as the sky lightened on a cloudy Sunday morning, the statue of Robert E. Lee on horseback — ostensibly the reason for the clashes — seemed to be surveying a battlefield still strewn with the debris from Saturday's conflagration. And what was left behind tells much about Charlottesville's angriest day.

I don't know how you can stand the mess!

A counter-point on that one:

Conservative Rallies are generally known for leaving their venues virtually pristine when they clear out.

Haggling over the matter of the Charlottesville "Unite the Right" rally rightfully belonging under the conservative banner. They were also ordered to leave by law enforcement before the rally otherwise would have concluded. So anybody who might have been so inclined as to clean up the mess of others never had the chance, police forced them out of the area before they could do so.

[TheDeamon]

Regardless of haggling over the matter of the Charlottesville "Unite the Right" rally rightfully belonging under the conservative banner. They were also ordered to leave by law enforcement before the rally otherwise would have concluded. So anybody who might have been so inclined as to clean up the mess of others never had the chance, police forced them out of the area before they could do so.

correcting an omission to my last post.

[TheDrake]

They came, they partied, they left a mess. Downtown Orlando is slowly getting back to normal, after President Donald Trump’s visit on Tuesday evening to officially launch his 2020 re-election bid.

It’s time to take out the trash downtown. After Tuesday night’s party, downtown is feeling a bit hungover but many are happy about the money they brought in at the the “45 Fest” party.

Lots of items and trash were left behind. The city says it’s up to the Trump campaign to take out the trash and pay for it. Meanwhile, businesses nearby felt the effects of the rally Tuesday night.

so pristine

[TheDrake]

New Jersey Trump Rally

Sometimes they do clean up

Meanwhile, exposure of disinformation campaign about climate rally

Environmental activists regularly clean up other people's trash

Of course, you don't get a chance to clean up after yourself if you've been chased from the area with tear gas and rubber bullets.

[DonaldD]

Derek Chauvin kneeled on Floyd's neck - not the Right.

Why do you think I just meant Chauvin?  Why, just look at these Trump supporters.

[TheDeamon]

You seem to be under the mistaken impression that Trump's "base" is Conservative.

Trump has Conservative support for lack of any better option, and no, the Democrats aren't selling anything they're willing to tolerate.

[TheDrake]

I guess you'll have to explain the "No True Conservative" defense.

You seem to be under the mistaken impression that Trump's "base" is Conservative.

Trump has Conservative support for lack of any better option, and no, the Democrats aren't selling anything they're willing to tolerate.

No True Scotsman. Got it.

[DonaldD]

I love how even "the right" is not "conservative" when it's inconvenient, whereas democrats/the left/liberal/antifa/black lives matter/the deep state/occupy wall street/the united nations/the deep state/the FBI are basically synonymous.

[TheDeamon]

I love how even "the right" is not "conservative" when it's inconvenient, whereas democrats/the left/liberal/antifa/black lives matter/the deep state/occupy wall street/the united nations/the deep state/the FBI are basically synonymous.

The AG for the state of Minnesota knowingly poses with AntiFa signage on Twitter. Democrats have been known to actively support AntiFa or otherwise be "more than sympathetic" to their cause.  You don't even need to look for "dog whistles" on those items.

Meanwhile, we can go back to 4 years ago, and see the Republcians, and even many Conservatives(not to be confused with the Republicans) complaining about the Trump supporters and "his base" which wasn't considered Republican then, and certainly wasn't overly conservative. Fast forward several years, and we have a Republican party that is generally under the thumb of Trump but it's still a very grudging thing because he's PotUS, he's a Republican, and he's more popular than the GOP in Washington, and they don't really have an alternative to offer right now. (Which says a lot about how bad the GOP Leadership is) Although part of the problem is Trump is still sucking all the oxygen out of the room.

If you're a Republican and trying to bill yourself as "the Trump alternative," your life becomes talking about Trump and that's a migraine waiting to happen. Especially as you try to differentiate your policies from the very tone-deaf Donald Trump, and get to "enjoy" being hammered by Trump and the Democratic press alike.

This also ignores the "lesson learned" by Republicans with regards to one Ross Perot back in the 1990's. They're not going to split their vote, as they know that'll mean the Democrat's win. And with what the Democratic platform appears to be, that's very bad news for the country.

Conservatives and much of the GOP support Trump not because they're pro-Trump, they anti-Socialist and the activists among the Democrats are chomping at the bit to push that frontier much further and much faster than is sane.

It isn't even really Biden that's the problem on that front, although he is running on a Socialism light platform, it's the other Democrats in Congress that makes it alarming. Pair them up with a President Biden and it's likely going to be time to fasten our seatbelts, and hope your upgrade to a 5 point restraining harness arrived in time.

[DonaldD]

Thanks for making the point.

[Kasandra]

You seem to be under the mistaken impression that Trump's "base" is Conservative.

Trump has Conservative support for lack of any better option, and no, the Democrats aren't selling anything they're willing to tolerate.

They don't have to support him.  They would do better for the country if they voted for a ham sandwich.  Yesterday Robert Gates (Defense Secretary under Bush and Obama) said that he disagreed with virtually every position Biden held on foreign policy, but he's still the better choice because he's a decent human being.

[wmLambert]

You seem to be under the mistaken impression that Trump's "base" is Conservative.

Trump has Conservative support for lack of any better option, and no, the Democrats aren't selling anything they're willing to tolerate.

They don't have to support him.  They would do better for the country if they voted for a ham sandwich.  Yesterday Robert Gates (Defense Secretary under Bush and Obama) said that he disagreed with virtually every position Biden held on foreign policy, but he's still the better choice because he's a decent human being.

Robert Gates s another Never-Trumper. So many Swamp monsters.

Returning to Charlottesville, one of the very few examples used by Democrats to rationalize their own perfidy during literally  hundreds of protests and riots, Drake Daley, Michael Miselis, Cole White, and Thomas Gillen were members of an independent group known as "Rise Above Movement," who all plead guilty for conspiring to riot. They are a self described alternate far-right group, not a "Right" group, and no GOP condoned or apologized for their actions, the way Democrats defehd the looters and rioters. Out of the hundreds of protestors, these few stuck out like a sore thumb, but do not represent the Right. There were good people on both sides of the protest, and a few sickos. Do not use the sickos as more strawmen to deflect.

There was also one protest where environmentalists cleaned up after themselves, which made the news because of the rarity of it. You can use that also to rationalize how the Left behaves, but don't expect it to disprove the SOP.

[DonaldD]

Good to see your deflector shields remain in place and fully powered, wmLambert - anybody who disagrees with Trump must be either a never-Trumper or a swamp-monster, because, well, they disagree with Trump, and Trump is without flaw...

Just wondering whether you can support this piece of misinformation yet:

Martin Gugino is openly named by his own mayor as a professional agitator for Antifa.

You should be able to provide a transcript of where the mayor made this statement.  At the very least, you should be able to provide a video recording, specifically of the mayor Byron Brown, making such a statement.

Can you do so, or are you really basing your accusation on a 'report' by the Russian apologist OAN, which itself is based on since discredited/retracted misstatements by other media outlets?

[TheDeamon]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/calls-to-remove-controversial-abraham-lincoln-statue-in-boston/ar-BB15sMUJ?ocid=ob-fb-enus-280

[Aris Katsaris]

There were good people on both sides of the protest, and a few sickos.

Am curious, do you have any evidence that there were any "good people" in support of wanting the statue to remain? How did you determine this?

Can you name a few of those good people, so I can look them up and try and determine their goodness myself?

[TheDeamon]

https://www.npr.org/sections/live-updates-protests-for-racial-justice/2020/07/01/885909530/columbus-ohio-takes-down-statue-of-christopher-columbus

"For many people in our community, the statue represents patriarchy, oppression and divisiveness," Ginther said. "That does not represent our great city, and we will no longer live in the shadow of our ugly past."

Ginther being the mayor of Columbus, Ohio speaking on the matter of the statue of the City's namesake having his statue removed.

[DonaldD]

It's not easy coming to terms with the facts of colonialism, and how the birth of one's country depended on the subjugation and genocide of other races.

[Fenring]

I think we should eliminate all traces of chimpanzees from our society. Humans evolved from them, and as we know chimps are prone to territorial conflict, murder, and toxic masculinity. I don't think we should tolerate living in the shadow of this ugly past either. We can mention them in history books, but there should be no sign in our culture that we are ok with chimps or that zoos support their immoral practices through colorful pictures and positively-framed descriptions.

[DonaldD]

Well... humans did not evolve from chimpanzees, though chimps and humans did evolve from a common ancestor.  Also, that would have happened millions of years ago, so could not be included in any history books - they would need to be pre-history books.  It's also interesting that you think of zoos, essentially concentration camps or prisons for chimpanzees, as being some kinds of marketing tools for chimp behaviour in nature...

[Fenring]

It was a joke...

[DonaldD]

Yes, clearly.  Was the joke dependent on the mistakes, though?

[Fenring]

Yes, clearly.  Was the joke dependent on the mistakes, though?

Is your ability to understand the joke dependent on the technical data being accurate? Or were you just nitpicking to knock down a straw man?

[Kasandra]

I think we should eliminate all traces of chimpanzees from our society. Humans evolved from them, and as we know chimps are prone to territorial conflict, murder, and toxic masculinity. I don't think we should tolerate living in the shadow of this ugly past either. We can mention them in history books, but there should be no sign in our culture that we are ok with chimps or that zoos support their immoral practices through colorful pictures and positively-framed descriptions.

Good point, except for the minor correction that humans did not evolve from chimps.  In any case, protozoa are the real culprits, so...

[TheDeamon]

Good point, except for the minor correction that humans did not evolve from chimps.  In any case, protozoa are the real culprits, so...

I blame the stromatolites myself.

[DonaldD]

Yes, clearly.  Was the joke dependent on the mistakes, though?

Is your ability to understand the joke dependent on the technical data being accurate? Or were you just nitpicking to knock down a straw man?

Was your joke a straw man?  I thought it was an awkward metaphor...

[Kasandra]

It was a joke...

I had prayed for that to be the case <whew!>

[Fenring]

It was a joke...

I had prayed for that to be the case <whew!>

I'm amazed that you're all finding it so hard to glean the meaning of the joke. For my part I was concerned that it was too on the nose.

[Kasandra]

Perhaps the result of too much imagination on your part and not enough on ours