Author Topic: Trump just won the 2020 election  (Read 5758 times)

LetterRip

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Re: Trump just won the 2020 election
« Reply #50 on: March 21, 2018, 04:26:24 PM »
Yes they did change the title, and I think they have edited the article some also.

TheDrake

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Re: Trump just won the 2020 election
« Reply #51 on: March 22, 2018, 11:40:26 AM »
Quote
There's a finite number of companies hit, that overwhelming are US companies.

Are they being targeted because they are big, or because they are American? You are ascribing a motivation that this is because they are American. And yet their action also makes it easier for smaller American companies to compete with the behemoths in Europe, does it not?

Currently, AT&T and Time Warner are being blocked from merging in the US. If something were happening in Europe that targeted or restricted AT&T or Time Warner, many might label that "anti-American" also. I don't think you can say that any rule, regulation, or tax enacted can be said to be anti-American just because it disproportionately affects the largest companies. This is something we routinely do here in the states affecting American companies.

Meanwhile one could also frame large tax breaks given to major US firms at the State level as anti-competitive subsidies of the largest American companies. Look at the reports that Amazon is being offered billions in tax credits to locate their second HQ in a particular state.

Seriati

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Re: Trump just won the 2020 election
« Reply #52 on: May 03, 2018, 11:47:06 AM »
Just wanted to add another of the classic European "non-Tariff" dirty tricks.  This one is fairly well known, but the global reach of it is insidious.  Effectively, Europeans are asserting a perpetual right to treat as a "tradename" the name for what have become globalized standard products, that originally were named after a European region (like for example Champagne).  In this case though, we're talking about Cheese, where the names have been out there for centuries in some cases and there really is no meaningful descriptive name that can replace the existing name.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-cheese-makers-are-having-a-cow-about-naming-rights-1525358957

This kind of rule causes substantial harms to exporters producing in the US, and not just for European sales, but because they incorporate this into agreements with other countries, it effectively impacts sales on a global basis. 

LetterRip

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Re: Trump just won the 2020 election
« Reply #53 on: May 03, 2018, 12:17:34 PM »
Effectively, Europeans are asserting a perpetual right to treat as a "tradename" the name for what have become globalized standard products, that originally were named after a European region (like for example Champagne).

In the US there aren't any cheese producers that age the cheese long enough to be legally Parmesan, or follow other rules such as milk quality, ingredients, inspection, etc.

That said why should regions not have protection for their tradenames?  How are producers of other sparkling wines harmed by not being able to trade off of the hard work that the Champagne region did to establish their reputation for quality sparking wines, or the Parmesan region did for their cheese?  I don't see any reason other cheese or wine producers should be able to trade off of the reputation established by others.  Do you think a foreign vehicle makers are harmed by having to establish their own vehicle brand reputations rather than trade off those established by Ford, Chevy, etc?

I think Craft and other American producers damages the reputation of Parmesan cheese manufacturers by being allowed to call their cheese topping Parmesan.

See this discussion why most American "Parmesan" cheeses are nothing at all like the real thing.

https://www.seriouseats.com/2016/08/best-parmesan-cheese-parmigiano-reggiano-labeling.html
« Last Edit: May 03, 2018, 12:24:57 PM by LetterRip »

D.W.

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Re: Trump just won the 2020 election
« Reply #54 on: May 03, 2018, 01:07:59 PM »
... and would you like to add Wakandan cheese to the crust on that pizza sir?
Wa-ka-what now?
Wakandan sir.  It's what we use to call Parmesan  crust.
Then why the hell not just say that?
Because apparently it's a real place sir, and they got an attitude problem.
Wakanda or Parm...astan?
I honestly don't know sir, but the lawyers said we got to call it this now.
Uh... huh...
So would you like us to add that to your order?

No, but how about some ranch dipping sauce?  You DO still call it ranch, right?

Seriati

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Re: Trump just won the 2020 election
« Reply #55 on: May 03, 2018, 01:50:09 PM »
That said why should regions not have protection for their tradenames?

Because they are not tradenames, they are not an assurance of quality, they are a label of type.  The point of these regulations is to prevent consumers from being able to identify that two products are the same type of cheese and making a decision about whether they want to value the region they were made, the quality or the costs.  Champagne vs. sparkling white is a relatively clear description.

How do you describe Parmesan cheese without calling it Parmesan?  Can you adequately and clearly identify a type of cheese by describing it without using its common name?

Frisbee vs spinning disks, was silly but clear, no one saw the disk sitting there and was unsure about it was.  That's not even close to the case with cheese.  These are not trade names, at this point, they are general styles.

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Do you think a foreign vehicle makers are harmed by having to establish their own vehicle brand reputations rather than trade off those established by Ford, Chevy, etc?

How about if they were required to produce a different product entirely.  They're trading off the US manufacturers when they sell a standard car, truck or SUV.  The function of the car is clear and recognizable.  Maybe they should be required to sell only tracked vehicles or 5 wheeled cars.

Quote
I think Craft and other American producers damages the reputation of Parmesan cheese manufacturers by being allowed to call their cheese topping Parmesan.

I got no problem with truth in labeling laws, require them to disclose that they are made in the US.  Heck allow the Parmesan manufacturers to call themselves authentic and not the US ones, but denying a common word's meaning is ridiculous. 

Heck, I'd be fine with requiring it to be labelled, "American Parmesan."

D.W.

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Re: Trump just won the 2020 election
« Reply #56 on: May 03, 2018, 02:19:45 PM »
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Heck, I'd be fine with requiring it to be labelled, "American Parmesan."
Me to, if "American" cheese wasn't a type/flavor of cheese.  :P

TheDrake

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Re: Trump just won the 2020 election
« Reply #57 on: May 03, 2018, 02:34:45 PM »
And the US doesn't allow whiskey from other countries to be called Bourbon. That happened in 1964, after it had been made for over 100 years.

Meanwhile, about that Parmesan.

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I noted in my last column that by law, Parmigiano-Reggiano is allowed to contain only three very simple ingredients: milk (produced in the Parma/Reggio region and less than 20 hours from cow to cheese), salt, and rennet (a natural enzyme from calf intestine). Three other ingredients, Cellulose Powder, Potassium Sorbate, and Cheese Cultures are not found in Parmigiano-Reggiano - they are completely illegal in its production. Yet all three are in Kraft 100% Grated Parmesan Cheese (I’m not sure if that means it is supposed to be 100% “parmesan” or simply 100% grated, which it certainly is). It’s far enough from the real thing that Kraft was legally forced to stop selling its cheese labeled Parmesan in Europe.

parmesan cheats

Seriati

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Re: Trump just won the 2020 election
« Reply #58 on: May 03, 2018, 02:51:59 PM »
From my point of view, there's probably saw dust in that Kraft cheese as well, so what?  These agreements serve a purpose, but at somepoint they go to far don't they?

Will China require that only Chinese food imported from China be called Chinese food?  Can French restaurants be required to quit calling themselves French? 

The point was that this is another form of a trade barrier or tariff like thing that people don't quite realize contributes to the trade imbalance.  This one materially impacts US Cheese exports (we're the fifth leading exporter, and new agreements that cover cheeses are being pushed in Canada and Mexico, which can be expected to cost the US 10's of millions - after the US cheese producers were actually the ones to develope the markets for those types of cheeses in Mexico and Canada).

Fenring

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Re: Trump just won the 2020 election
« Reply #59 on: May 03, 2018, 03:22:32 PM »
I verge towards Seriati's position on the market label issue, and the sparkling white wine example hits home. Another good wine example is what's known as a Bordeaux blend, which in America has sometimes come to be called a Meritage blend. It's an annoying way of saying the same thing, meaning simply to describe the blending of certain grapes with each other. Luckily California has developed some market power and so the new term for it has slowly become known.

The thing about these protected names that's weird is that "Bordeaux" or "Parmesan" isn't a private company that can claim intellectual copyright on a process or product. They're places, and whatever processes that were developed there were done by many people over time. That the conglomerate of French wine producers would like to protect their own market is obvious, but in effect it's a de facto tariff designed to prevent competition artificially. For the longest time their claim was that their wine was simply the best and no one except the best should use their fancy name - except that now other countries are competitive with them in quality and so that argument is out the window and it's just about them trying to win the market any way they can. Yet we don't see this kind of control in less 'valuable' areas, such as "Boston style pizza" or "Manhattan clam chowder." Yes, various areas sell those products that use a local name, but no one seems ready to lobby the government to shut it down. But if it were banned, what on Earth would you call Manhattan clam chowder? For Boston style pizza at least you could call it deep dish, by which it's also known. But when it's a powerful lobby suddenly the laws bend to suit them, as is the case with the winemaking industry in France, and I guess cheese in Italy.

 

 

TheDeamon

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Re: Trump just won the 2020 election
« Reply #60 on: May 03, 2018, 03:33:15 PM »
Meanwhile, about that Parmesan.

Quote
I noted in my last column that by law, Parmigiano-Reggiano is allowed to contain only three very simple ingredients: milk (produced in the Parma/Reggio region and less than 20 hours from cow to cheese), salt, and rennet (a natural enzyme from calf intestine). Three other ingredients, Cellulose Powder, Potassium Sorbate, and Cheese Cultures are not found in Parmigiano-Reggiano - they are completely illegal in its production. Yet all three are in Kraft 100% Grated Parmesan Cheese (I’m not sure if that means it is supposed to be 100% “parmesan” or simply 100% grated, which it certainly is). It’s far enough from the real thing that Kraft was legally forced to stop selling its cheese labeled Parmesan in Europe.

parmesan cheats

By the underlined portion, it seems almost as though they're trying to claim "Parmesan Cheese" as a brand label, more than a century after the fact, not much unlike an "Idaho Potato" has to be grown in Idaho, not simply "of the same type" grown elsewhere. But you're not exactly dealing with the US Government on that front, it is the Idaho Potato Commission you have to watch out for on that one, and they're going to be using Trademark law to go after you. And they've been aggressively protecting their label for decades.

Legal precedent in the United States would say that the "Trademark" rights for "parmesan chesse" lapsed long ago, due to failure to protect the trademark after its use (by other parties) became known. Ex-post-facto legislation in another nation doesn't change anything. It went uncontested for decades, and was "allowed to be used" as a generic term, so all legal rights have been abandoned.

How the WTO factors into such a dispute is anybody's ball game, but it seems that would be where the dispute would need to be taken.

DonaldD

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Re: Trump just won the 2020 election
« Reply #61 on: May 03, 2018, 03:47:21 PM »
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From my point of view, there's probably saw dust in that Kraft cheese as well, so what?
What's funny is that, although we probably all thought that the Kraft product tasted like wood chips, we didn't actually believe we were literally sprinkling wood products on our spaghetti... but in the truth-is-stranger-than-fiction category:
https://www.foodprocessing.com/industrynews/2016/kraft-heinz-in-lawsuit-over-parmesan-cheese-containing-wood-pulp/

Who ever said you can't learn anything new on Ornery?
« Last Edit: May 03, 2018, 03:49:30 PM by DonaldD »

TheDeamon

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Re: Trump just won the 2020 election
« Reply #62 on: May 03, 2018, 04:07:41 PM »
Well, I can always use more fiber in my diet.  8)

LetterRip

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Re: Trump just won the 2020 election
« Reply #63 on: May 03, 2018, 06:58:03 PM »
Florida oranges was so well branded, that they couldn't keep up with demand, so they changed the law to allow any orange that had sat in Florida for a certain amount of time to be labeled a "Florida orange".  So they would be grown elsewhere, shipped to Florida, and then shipped to their destination.


Regarding the Parmesan cheese - the wood pulp/cellulose is an 'anti-caking agent'.  It isn't clear how much they use (the bare minimum to prevent caking?)  I'm curious how much of the weight of the finished product is the cellulose.

Grant

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Re: Trump just won the 2020 election
« Reply #64 on: May 03, 2018, 07:35:04 PM »
Most of these international agreements are trade offs.  The French get their champagne.  The Scots get their scotch.  The Irish get their Irish whiskey.  The Americans get their bourbon, Tennessee Whiskey, Crayons, etc.  It's protectionism in a way, but it's also maintaining a certain degree of truth in advertising.  What is the definition of a particular product if it is tied to a geographic location?  When you call something "scotch", are you saying that it is from Scotland, or that it is made of certain ingredients, made with certain production methods, etc?  If you don't have some standards than you can bottle urine and call it scotch.  Nobody wants that. 

In addition, most negotiations and nations in these agreements differentiate between types of products and particular products.  The Czechs might complain that pilsners can only be made in Pilzen, but nobody really gives them the time of day, including the Germans.  The Germans don't really complain about products being labeled Lagers, or Kolschs, or Hefeweisens, because these are all acknowledged to be types of products rather than particular products, much the same as whiskey, vodka, or rum.  But Puerto Rico of course has the right to complain if someone else makes a product they call "Puerto Rican Rum" if it wasn't made in Puerto Rico.  Same thing goes for scotch, Tennessee whiskey, and champagne. 

I really doubt that Kraft is going to be seriously hurt by these complaints.  I also doubt that sales of real Parmesan cheese is going to be increased by these actions. 

I'm not a fan of protectionism, and I think these steel tariffs are going to end up biting everyone in the ass.  But I have no problem with nations agreeing to respect each other's particular definitions of particular products. 

TheDrake

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Re: Trump just won the 2020 election
« Reply #65 on: May 04, 2018, 08:47:03 AM »
Worth noting that this isn't a national boundary thing. A French winery that is not in Bordeaux also can't make that style of wine and label it as such.

DonaldD

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Re: Trump just won the 2020 election
« Reply #66 on: May 04, 2018, 08:57:59 AM »
Getting technical - "Bordeaux" is in no way a style of wine, unless you consider Cabernet Sauvignon, Merlot and Sauvignon Blanc all the same style.

Bordeaux is simply a wine producing region.  Point final.  If a wine is not produced in Bordeaux, it is not a Bordeaux wine.

Maybe Bordeaux is not the best example.

Seriati

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Re: Trump just won the 2020 election
« Reply #67 on: May 04, 2018, 10:16:10 AM »
Actually DonaldD, Bordeaux is a great example specifically because it is not a particular style.  There is no fixed recipe for "Bordeaux" and every winery there mixes it's own balance of different kinds of grapes.  The name can only refer to the region.

That's fundamentally different than say the name of a type of cheese that happens to also be the name of a region.  If every Bordeaux was required to be a mix of 33% cab sav and 67% merlot there would be far less reason to force another wine mixed 33% and 67% to use a different name.

My issue here is that having provided a regional name to a type of cheese is no different than have provided a regional name to a type of apple or a specific type of flower.  Requiring that anyone else growing a genetically identical apple in a different area has to call it something different is absurd.  If you can't explain the concept of  "smertfak" cheese to someone that wants to know its type without referencing that it's Parmesan made in a different place, then the concept has become a common word, not just a regional brand.

Fenring

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Re: Trump just won the 2020 election
« Reply #68 on: May 04, 2018, 10:26:54 AM »
Getting technical - "Bordeaux" is in no way a style of wine, unless you consider Cabernet Sauvignon, Merlot and Sauvignon Blanc all the same style.

The term "Bordeaux style" applies to the red mix specifically, and is a standard term that is often used offhand but just can't appear on bottles and official statements. I guarantee you that if not for the law everyone would be calling Cab/Merlot blends Bordeaux-style or Bordeaux-blend wines. In fact, the obsession with identifying specific grapes with French regions doesn't stop there. I was reading a bunch of wine reviews yesterday (by coincidence) and the critics cannot help themselves but to say things like "this winery's Rhone-style Syrah" or "a Pinot to challenge anything from the Burgundy region" and so on. Either they're comparing the product to that of the French region, or outright refer to it as "like the wines from that region" in style. Basically the region monikers are acting as a basic reference point here, just as Seriati suggested. The terms are invoked not because the critic is literally comparing one wine from France with another from elsewhere; they're being used because he wants the reader to hear a reference that will be understood based on the name usually associated with the grape. And it's not just the grape either but the specific style, so for instance you'd never compare the same Pinot Noir to a Burgundy and to a New Zealand Pinot; the flavor palettes are different there and so each would represent a different benchmark for what to expect. This is sort of similar to the Parmesan cheese example, since the term being invoked describes not only a component but a process that's going to yield a specific flavor expectation from the buyer. It's very hard to describe what the flavor will be without a comparison to a benchmark, and you can see how often wine experts will refer to a region to say what a wine is like. In terms of Bordeaux, there is literally no other region I know of anywhere that is known for the Cab/Merlot blend (with other things peppered in), and in fact within Bordeaux nothing but this blend can be made and be called a Bordeaux, by law. So no kidding the term has become inextricably tied to the type of product - they made that happen on purpose!

Grant

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Re: Trump just won the 2020 election
« Reply #69 on: May 04, 2018, 12:11:37 PM »
"Bourbon" refers to a whiskey that is made with at least 50% corn in the mash.  It also needs to be distilled in the United States to be sold in Canada and the EU.  So the name refers to a location and a set of ingredients.  There was never a council of chemists or alcoholics who decided this.  The manufacturers of bourbon came up with this set of rules to protect their brands by coming up with a clear definition.  I typically like clear definitions. 

"Tennessee Whiskey" must be a bourbon that is made in Tennessee and use a particular filtering and aging process, though other Tennessee distillers are contesting the second caveat. 

Parmesan cheese must be made using a certain process, certain ingredients, and made in certain regions of Italy.   

These clear definitions are parts of brand protection and do the double duty of providing a certain degree of truth in advertising. 

As to applying a specific location name to produce, you can look no further than the example of Florida Oranges. 

All of these names were applied first by manufacturers and became part of their brand.  They are not scientific or chemical definitions.  Hence a chemically similar concoction to Maker's Mark, distilled in Canada, cannot be called "bourbon". 

On the other hand, a Kennebec Potato need not be grown in Maine.  This is partially because things like spirits and cheese are produced, rather than simply grown.  The producers then, have a right to protect their brand and set the definitions of their particular product. 


Fenring

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Re: Trump just won the 2020 election
« Reply #70 on: May 04, 2018, 12:26:12 PM »
As I see it this isn't about process but is rather strictly about branding. Like all businesses producers of food want to corner the market and be the only ones selling the thing they're selling, and if others want to sell it they want the public as confused as possible about what the other guy is selling. And to me all of this isn't about protecting a brand but rather squashing competition, which I am not for. If you have a term like "cola" then you can have Coke and Pepsi each make one and let people choose. But imagine if Coke decided to sue for the exclusive right to use the term "cola" as well as Coke? That would screw up the entire industry because then there'd be no acceptable word for the type of product they make. It's not quite so cut and dry in other food areas, but my point in short is that if a brand or region goes out of their way to make the name of their product equivalent to a description of what the product is then they've made their own bed. And they do it on purpose; they want people who think of that type of thing to have only the name of their brand in mind when they refer to it. The Bordeaux producers wanted "Bordeaux" to be synonymous with Cab/Merlot; there was no desire that there be any other name for it other than the 'trade name'. So if they get their heart's desire - just like how people use to ask for a Kleenix rather than a tissue - then I think they should reap what they sow. Yes, everyone will use that term, and yes, it should be considered as a descriptor at that point rather than a trade name. Basically a scientific statement about its contents and process, and since mixing specifics grapes isn't a process that can be patented I therefore think that the name should be a free-for-all. And that's different from false advertising too; if a Californian winemaker just wrote "Bordeaux wine" on the bottle that would be misleading, since it could be confused for meaning it's from there. So a simple rule about specificity would solve that; "Bordeaux-style" wine would do, or "Bordeaux blend from Sonoma Valley" or whatever. Similarly "American Parmesan" would do as a descriptor (as suggested above). Overall while I am sympathetic with a company protecting its process through patent or its name through copyright, I'm not at all sympathetic to various tricks to try to squeeze out the competition as basically a marketing ploy. They claim it's about pride but it's not, it's about dollars.

scifibum

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Re: Trump just won the 2020 election
« Reply #71 on: May 04, 2018, 12:33:08 PM »
When it comes to dairy and grapes, I think regional designations actually make some sense.  I don't know if this holds true for apples, but the local environment and farming customs do affect the characteristics of dairy products as well as grapes.


While the sellers main motivation is to preserve the reputation of their products - and their profits - it does benefit the consumer when it comes to consistency and predictability. After all, to the degree that "Parmesan" doesn't tell a consumer that their cheese comes from a particular region with regulations that predict the characteristics of the product? It also doesn't tell them whether what they are buying is what they expect.

Fenring

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Re: Trump just won the 2020 election
« Reply #72 on: May 04, 2018, 12:46:56 PM »
While the sellers main motivation is to preserve the reputation of their products - and their profits - it does benefit the consumer when it comes to consistency and predictability.

I don't really think so. You can buy wines from Bordeaux, for example, that have such a divergence of taste and quality to them that it may as well be from somewhere else in the world. In the wine industry all you can really say in terms of consistency is that if grapes on grown on a particular vineyard or on a particular bench then there are some commonalities. But in an entire region? Yes, there are some characteristics of a region that do tie them together in common but the ways in which they diverge are so vast that that may as well be from different countries. Bordeaux can be amazing and can be the worst crap, just like anything else. You need to know the individual seller to know what you're getting; the term "Bordeaux" means literally zero about its quality, although it does guarantee the type of grapes that are in it at least. So while "Chateau Lafite" should definitely be a protected term since they have a private reputation, the 'type of wine' in a Bordeaux blend is blatantly not correlated to quality. I only wish you were right that terms like "Bordeaux" afforded the consumer some predictability! In reality any bottle you buy from anywhere is going to be a crapshoot until you try it, no matter what the label says. It boils down in the end to knowing individual labels and winemakers, thus rendering the region distinction of little use for the most part other than to make it annoying for their competitors.

Seriati

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Re: Trump just won the 2020 election
« Reply #73 on: May 04, 2018, 01:13:56 PM »
Fen, I'm pretty sure some of the Bordeaux's I have had in the past have other less common grapes as well.  You are absolutely correct that the quality can vary widely, and in fact the reputation of the winery itself is what you'd need to know to grab a great bottle.

Fenring

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Re: Trump just won the 2020 election
« Reply #74 on: May 04, 2018, 01:44:31 PM »
Fen, I'm pretty sure some of the Bordeaux's I have had in the past have other less common grapes as well.  You are absolutely correct that the quality can vary widely, and in fact the reputation of the winery itself is what you'd need to know to grab a great bottle.

Yeah, the blending grapes can be up to the ingenuity of the winemaker; you can put in Mourvedre, Malbec, whatever, in smallish quantities, but in the main the vast majority is Cab/Merlot. I think once in my life I saw a Bordeaux wine that was 100% Merlot, which I thought was very odd, so even then the moniker basically doesn't tell you very much other than "the real thing!" It's marketing.

TheDrake

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Re: Trump just won the 2020 election
« Reply #75 on: May 04, 2018, 03:24:11 PM »
Quote
Bordeaux is created under strict rules. Under French wine law, it must contain two more of the following grapes: cabernet sauvignon for power, merlot for soft, sweet fruit, petit verdot for spice, cabernet franc for flowery aroma and malbec for its inky black hue. No other grapes are allowed. Most Bordeaux wines are predominately cabernet sauvignon or merlot.

Quote
The closest American emulators are those in the Meritage Alliance, a group of over 300 wineries that vow to use at least some of their grape crop in "exceptional wines blended in the Bordeaux tradition" — using at least two of the five "noble" Bordeaux grapes — and with no other grapes.

This is not 'Nam, there are rules.

But assuming that Bordeaux's do vary incredibly, then why is it so important that people in other regions want to use the term? Because it carries weight and increases the value of the product, based on the time, effort, and tradition of the people in that area. Also, it is misleading to the customer. I wasn't fooled by Kraft's Parmesan quality, but after reading that article I'm definitely going to scrutinize what I think I'm buying at the gourmet section of a cheese shop.

Morally, if you glom on to the brand that some other group of vintners or cheesemakers have produced, then how are you different than knockoff brands made in china? Note carefully, I didn't say legally.

Gaoics79

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Re: Trump just won the 2020 election
« Reply #76 on: May 06, 2018, 09:32:45 PM »
Quote
Overall while I am sympathetic with a company protecting its process through patent or its name through copyright, I'm not at all sympathetic to various tricks to try to squeeze out the competition as basically a marketing ploy. They claim it's about pride but it's not, it's about dollars.

That is one side of it for sure.

But as anyone who has looked at products like honey to olive oil to parmesan cheese, sometimes this kind of regulation needs to be there for the industry's own good.

Take honey, for example. The reputation of Canadian honey, in my mind, is poison. I simply won't buy Canadian honey, ever since reading the following:

Quote
Honey producers such as Campbell say many Canadians may not even be aware they aren’t buying 100 per cent Canadian honey when they choose Canadian brands. They may assume that when they see “Canada No.1 Grade” on the front of the label, it’s Canadian honey.

But he says “Canada No. 1” refers only to the grade of honey, not its origin. That’s listed on the back label, typically in small print.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/beekeepers-bitter-over-use-of-imported-product-in-canadian-honey-1.2844190

Then you connect the dots with other information:

https://www.producer.com/2016/07/are-canadians-paying-for-fake-imported-honey/

And you realize that it's all an elaborate way of selling consumers here Chinese produced honey, which most Canadians wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole, let alone willingly ingest.

When you let this kind of situation fester, you risk having a kind of contagion that destroys brands, rather than builds them. This consumer will certainly never touch Canadian branded honey, despite the fact that I am certain the product actually produced here is every bit as good as, say, a New Zealand product on sale for double the price. Now maybe the New Zealand stuff they sell at high end boutiques is fake too - but as a consumer, you make your choices the best you can.

I think increasingly with globalized food production, you're going to see more and more of this sort of cat and mouse game with consumers, many of who refuse to consume product produced in China. As this type of fraud is uncovered in various food categories, trust is going to be an increasingly precious commodity. An industry that can guarantee a certain geographic origin is going to have a huge leg up over one that can't. Countries that don't police this are going to see their industries suffer.


NobleHunter

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Re: Trump just won the 2020 election
« Reply #77 on: May 06, 2018, 09:44:20 PM »
I am not going to check the label on my new bottle of honey.

I am not going to check the label on my new bottle of honey.

I am not going to check the label on my new bottle of honey.

Damn it.

Well, unless the label is entirely dishonest, it's supposed to be 100% Canadian honey.

But the articles are from two years ago so maybe the freaking out worked?

Fenring

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Re: Trump just won the 2020 election
« Reply #78 on: May 06, 2018, 11:31:03 PM »
@ jasonr,

Yeah, as long as the regulation is essentially to protect the consumer from fraud then I'm all for it as well. When it's to prevent actually similar products from being called by the same name, in order to hurt their sales, I'm not. So it would be up to the regulatory commission (if I had my way) to discern which is happening. It's a truism that business will try to bend laws to advantage itself. Frequently business is advantaged by bolstering the entire industry, but often it's the opposite - a business is helped by poisoning the well and claiming to have the antidote.

TheDrake

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Re: Trump just won the 2020 election
« Reply #79 on: May 07, 2018, 09:48:12 AM »
Update - went to buy Parmesan this weekend and I couldn't identify anywhere on the packaging where or how that particular Parmigiano-Reggiano was made. Now some articles say that anything labelled Parmigiano-Reggiano meets the Italian standard and is made in Italy, and others say not. So even as a consumer paying attention, I'm hard pressed to know what I am getting.

I'd settle for other truth in labelling, like "Parmesan - NOT FROM ITALY" or other bold disclaimer versus a claim on the name Parmesan. But I do think there is something seriously wrong with knockoffs.

It is however an enhancement on buying products online. If I go to igourmet, they have a detailed description

HEB has a helpful tag to show country of origin

After thinking a bit, I'd say the generic Parmesan should certainly be out there for anyone to use, but Parmigiano-Reggiano should be hands off for random Chinese companies to throw around.

BTW, the company Sartori cited in the original article is garbage knockoff cheese, not "similar" or "equivalent". They are indeed listed as Sarmesan in a UK world cheese award and proudly claim their "Silver" - which basically means they were in the middle of the pack instead of the 2nd place people might assume.

I guess I just can't get upset about a company with an inferior, cheaply made product not getting to use a premium label. Now don't get me started on Kobe beef...

Pete at Home

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Re: Trump just won the 2020 election
« Reply #80 on: May 18, 2018, 02:39:30 AM »
http://www.macleans.ca/news/world/trumps-steel-tariff-draws-global-backlash-just-st

I think the people who got Trump into power just had a collective orgasm with this news. Even if it never brings a single job back to the USA the symbolism of picking steel is brilliant. And the more the globalist technocrats bash this, the more Trump will win in the next go around.

Be afraid.

Trump didn't win 2016 -- the DNC lost it, with both hands.  Moves that made Mitt "47%" Romney look like a globetrotter.  And I disagree that he's done anything capable of winning or losing 2020.  The DNC needs to either get someone with broad appeal or entirely ditch the idea of a white candidate.  But that's doubtful given the death grip that the left currently has on pink supremacy.  Give me Oprah or give me death.  Seriously, the Rogue One strategy of white girl surrounded by multi-cultural cast, just doesn't get the traditional 95% voting groups out in the post-Obama age.  I hate to call that a Trump win -- it's a fracking default.

Grant

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Re: Trump just won the 2020 election
« Reply #81 on: May 23, 2018, 06:52:11 PM »
Seriously, the Rogue One strategy of white girl surrounded by multi-cultural cast, just doesn't get the traditional 95% voting groups out in the post-Obama age.  I hate to call that a Trump win -- it's a fracking default.

I find this offensive on the grounds that Rogue One was the best Star Wars movie since Empire Strikes Back.  A Rogue One strategy would have been picking a white girl that the multi-cultural cast would have actually rallied around. 

Gaoics79

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Re: Trump just won the 2020 election
« Reply #82 on: May 23, 2018, 08:34:07 PM »
Quote
Well, unless the label is entirely dishonest, it's supposed to be 100% Canadian honey.

But the articles are from two years ago so maybe the freaking out worked?

No worries, I'm sure some fraction of it is 100% pure :)

Wayward Son

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Re: Trump just won the 2020 election
« Reply #83 on: May 31, 2018, 01:26:48 PM »
Now that Trump has imposed his steel and aluminum tariffs on Canada, Mexico and the EU, how many jobs do you think we'll lose?

Mexico has promised to penalize pork bellies, apples, grapes, cheese and flat steel.

As far as The European Union:

Quote
The European retaliatory list targets imports from the U.S. of shirts, jeans, cosmetics, other consumer goods, motorbikes and pleasure boats worth around 1 billion euros; orange juice, bourbon whiskey, corn and other agricultural products totaling 951 million euros; and steel and other industrial products valued at 854 million euros. The Brussels-based commission, the EU’s executive arm, discussed the retaliatory measures with representatives of the bloc’s governments at a meeting on Monday evening.

Europe may expand the group of targeted American goods should Trump also follow through on a related pledge to impose a 10 percent duty on foreign aluminum. The list obtained by Bloomberg on Tuesday relates only to steel countermeasures.

And China has threatened "similar measures" on $50 billion of stuff, including aircraft, automobiles and soybeans.

Soybeans is a big one.  You know how much soybeans China buys from us?  Close to $40 billion worth a year.  You know who grows a lot of soybeans?  Wisconsin.  You know how many more votes Trump got  in Wisconsin than Hillary?  22,748.  How low do you think the price of soybeans would have to go for the Republicans to lose 23,000 votes in the upcoming elections? :)

Trump may declare victory in a trade war if Europe lost 20,000 more jobs than we did, but I don't think those people who are newly on unemployment will feel so victorious when they go to the polls. ;)