Author Topic: U.S. Embassy Opens in Jerusalem  (Read 979 times)

Ronald Lambert

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U.S. Embassy Opens in Jerusalem
« on: May 14, 2018, 09:32:17 PM »
Today the U.S. Embassy in Jerusalem was officially opened. While President Trump was not there, he did send a video recorded short speech. Jared Cushner and his wife, Ivanka, were there. Ivanka was the one who pulled aside the drapery that revealed the new plaque identifying the American Embassy in Jerusalem. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu was also there, sitting in the front row next to Ivanka and Jared.

As expected, Palestinians staged protests at their border with Israel. Beforehand, the Israelis had bombarded Palestine with leaflets warning them not to approach the border wall, or they would be risking their lives. And at the time of the opening of the U.S. Embassy in Jerusalem, some 41 Palestinians had been killed by snipers, and a large crowd was visible near the border wall, amid a haze of dark smoke.

Four Republican U.S. senators were present, and several Republican Congressmen. NO DEMOCRATS were present--except for Joseph Lieberman, who is no longer a serving senator, and is Jewish.

One can only wonder when Jewish Americans will stop voting for Democrats.

Fenring

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Re: U.S. Embassy Opens in Jerusalem
« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2018, 10:51:56 PM »
One can only wonder when Jewish Americans will stop voting for Democrats.

To be fair, support for Israel tends to be bipartisan, with the caveat that Republicans tend to be the warhawk support while Democrats are more the friendly support...at least until the last administration. So as of right now I'm not even 100% sure what the difference is between the parties in regards to Israel; it probably depends on exactly who occupies key positions.

NobleHunter

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Re: U.S. Embassy Opens in Jerusalem
« Reply #2 on: May 14, 2018, 11:27:19 PM »
Well, the GOP is friendly to Nazis and white supremacists and for a good chunk of their supporters being pro-Israel is all about ushering in the end-times.

No idea why Jewish people would be wary of them.

Greg Davidson

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Re: U.S. Embassy Opens in Jerusalem
« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2018, 01:43:14 AM »
No Democrats were invited. The Trump Administration did invite a bigoted pastor, one who believes that Jews and Mormons will go to hell. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/14/world/middleeast/robert-jeffress-embassy-jerusalem-us.html https://www.sltrib.com/news/politics/2018/05/14/bigot-pastor-who-once-labeled-mormonism-a-cult-shouldnt-speak-at-embassy-event-in-israel-romney-argues/

Ronald Lambert, one can only wonder when Americans who are not bigots will stop voting for Republicans. 


Gaoics79

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Re: U.S. Embassy Opens in Jerusalem
« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2018, 09:29:18 AM »
Well, the GOP is friendly to Nazis and white supremacists and for a good chunk of their supporters being pro-Israel is all about ushering in the end-times.

No idea why Jewish people would be wary of them.

I'll attempt to give a serious answer to the question. The majority of Jews are left leaning and have been historically, which has always put the community into the orbit of the Democrats moreso than the Republicans. It really is that simple.

And yes, the Republicans of late (and the right in general) has been more supportive of Israel while conversely, the left (and by implication, the Democrats) has been increasingly hostile to it.

But a lifetime of political habits doesn't just flip overnight.

Greg Davidson

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Re: U.S. Embassy Opens in Jerusalem
« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2018, 10:15:10 AM »
There is a growing split between North American Jews and Israel, particularly in the younger generations. Those who grew up in the aftermath of the Holocaust, or the 1947, 1956, 1967, and 1973 wars tend to have a profound and spiritual bond with Israel as part of their own Jewish identity. But there has been a distancing over the past generation, particularly after Prime Minister Rabin was shot in 1995 by a Jewish extremist spouting the hatred being pushed at the fringes of the ongoing electoral campaign by the Israeli right-wing (with Rabin gone, the Prime Minister who got elected was Netanyahu).

 

Seriati

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Re: U.S. Embassy Opens in Jerusalem
« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2018, 10:31:32 AM »
Way to take the low road NobleHunter.  The Dems are the only modern party that actually welcomes fascists  (so long as they brand as "anti-" fascists) and racists (so long as they aren't white). 

D.W.

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Re: U.S. Embassy Opens in Jerusalem
« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2018, 11:44:41 AM »
Point the way to the high road Seriati.  This one started on the low road.

Seriati

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Re: U.S. Embassy Opens in Jerusalem
« Reply #8 on: May 15, 2018, 12:12:46 PM »
I shouldn't post reactively when I'm still irritated.  I just find the oft unchallenged casual statements of the mean left very annoying.  Not a good excuse for being unkind myself.

Wayward Son

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Re: U.S. Embassy Opens in Jerusalem
« Reply #9 on: May 15, 2018, 12:14:25 PM »
Jewish Americans will stop voting Democrat once some other party convinces them that they are looking out for minorities in this country.

Let us also hope and pray that this move, whose only major benefit I can see is that it fulfills one of Trump's campaign promises, doesn't cost us too many American lives. :(

Fenring

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Re: U.S. Embassy Opens in Jerusalem
« Reply #10 on: May 15, 2018, 12:53:28 PM »
Jewish Americans will stop voting Democrat once some other party convinces them that they are looking out for minorities in this country.

Another strong connection between Jewish people and the Dem party is the geographical one: New York and Hollywood are Jewish industrial havens and both are liberal or at least Democratic-leaning areas with cultural values that go in that direction. Also worth looking at the pure geographical distribution of where Jews live and whether that state is red/blue:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_urban_areas_by_Jewish_population#Jewish_population_by_metropolitan_area

All major metropolitan areas with large numbers of Jewish people are in either the North-East, L.A., San Francisco, or south Florida (with a notable exception of 200,000+ in Atlanta). The numbers speak for themselves; the culture of the state and city most likely play strongly into why Jewish people will support a similar type of government as the local culture favors.

D.W.

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Re: U.S. Embassy Opens in Jerusalem
« Reply #11 on: May 15, 2018, 03:10:06 PM »
I do the same thing Seriati.  And in general, I got no problem with it.  However, you chose to ignore the statement that baited the reaction you criticized. 

I don't mind playing in the mud.  Just don't pretend you, or others doing so, have clean hands.

DonaldD

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Re: U.S. Embassy Opens in Jerusalem
« Reply #12 on: May 15, 2018, 03:41:35 PM »
Quote
The Dems are the only modern party that actually welcomes fascists
i guess you could argue that the current crop of Republicans cannot be characterized as "modern", but I get the impression that wasn't the point you were trying to make.

Fenring

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Re: U.S. Embassy Opens in Jerusalem
« Reply #13 on: May 15, 2018, 03:53:52 PM »
Quote
The Dems are the only modern party that actually welcomes fascists
i guess you could argue that the current crop of Republicans cannot be characterized as "modern", but I get the impression that wasn't the point you were trying to make.

I think the intended key word in his post was "welcomes". Arguably the Republicans are happy to take the votes of fascists, but his argument is that the Democrats openly welcome them, which I take to be a roundabout way of saying that certain brands of fascism have become actively trendy and acceptable, such as Antifa.

Seriati

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Re: U.S. Embassy Opens in Jerusalem
« Reply #14 on: May 15, 2018, 04:05:48 PM »
I do the same thing Seriati.  And in general, I got no problem with it.  However, you chose to ignore the statement that baited the reaction you criticized.

Are you talking about Ronald Lambert's statement?  I read it earlier and didn't really have a response.  It's just reality that although both parties have "supported" a change in the embassy as a matter of policy, the "politicians" weren't going to do it.  Republicans really didn't have much choice but to support it, President is of your party, you've claimed you believed it should happen for years.

All that's true for Democrats as well, except they can claim Trump is being "reckless" with the timing, and oppose it openly.

As for the position of American Jews, its hard to really say as an outsider.  It's always seemed to me that the old time Democratic commitment to civil liberties was a big part of their support (there are other parts of course).  As you know, I believe the Dems have left that legacy behind and are moving straight into authoritarianism and even fascism in how they view other people's rights.  I think Dershowitz is a great example, he sounds like a big Trump supporter and a "conservative" for literally being public with what would have been the ACLU's own position 2 decades ago.  I suspect, we're still a ways away from their being a radical shift away from the Democrats, but its entirely possible it's only a matter of time.

Seriati

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Re: U.S. Embassy Opens in Jerusalem
« Reply #15 on: May 15, 2018, 04:10:15 PM »
Let's be clear, once and for all, neither party will "give back" the votes it receives from racists.  Not happening.  It's soft lie of the left that because you get a vote from a reprehensible person you are reprehensible (if you're a Republican).  The same tarring doesn't go the other way, in fact the votes of convicted felons go overwhelming blue, including those who are absolutely reprehensible and rather than tar those who get the votes (Democrats), the media also turns that back into a criticism of the other side (Republicans) on an "all votes should count" argument.

So which is it?  Is everyone who receives a reprehensible vote reprehensible?  Is noone?  Or are you just a hypocrite?

TheDrake

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Re: U.S. Embassy Opens in Jerusalem
« Reply #16 on: May 15, 2018, 04:29:53 PM »
So which is it?  Is everyone who receives a reprehensible vote reprehensible?  Is noone?  Or are you just a hypocrite?

I think it is valid to pose the question why a candidate is gaining support from a group of reprehensible people. It is even more valid when the candidate gives those groups credibility by not calling them what they are. "Felons" are not an identity group, they have no political platform, they don't hold rallies.

It is possible that a violent leftist organization might give their support to Democrats, but typically these groups disavow the political process entirely. They actively disparage Democrats who usually rebuke them publicly and call for peaceful protest.

Fenring

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Re: U.S. Embassy Opens in Jerusalem
« Reply #17 on: May 15, 2018, 04:53:55 PM »
I think it is valid to pose the question why a candidate is gaining support from a group of reprehensible people.

Support means votes, sometimes money. Basically it means they're supporting your business, which in the case of a politician is a combination of your person, your work, and your 'brand' (or party). I don't particularly see the difference between this and supporting a brand in other milieus. Would it even be acceptable to ask why Microsoft "accepts" money from fascist groups without 'calling them what they are'? I don't know that I see the difference. Or how about a candy bar company? Should they advertise "not for Nazis"?

It gets really weird to talk about a free market and free elections and then throw in some certain unpopular types of people should be singled out by either a politician or a company and told they're not welcome. That doesn't sound like the America we want.

TheDrake

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Re: U.S. Embassy Opens in Jerusalem
« Reply #18 on: May 15, 2018, 05:10:29 PM »
Private companies can be criticized for their relationships with reprehensible customers.

Quote
Papa John's

The pizza chain’s CEO John Schnatter donated to Donald Trump’s campaign and opposes Obamacare (the Affordable Care Act). But it was his attack on the NFL for its response to kneeling players, blaming it for disappointing slow pizza sales, that rallied the far-right to the company.

“The NFL has hurt us,” he said of the league, which Papa John officially sponsors. “We are totally disappointed that the NFL and its leadership did not resolve the ongoing situation to the satisfaction of all parties long ago,” Schnatter told investors. No other NFL sponsors would confirm declining sales as a result of the controversy.

The comment inspired neo-nazi Andrew Anglin of the website Daily Stormer to declare Papa John’s the “Official Pizza of the Aryan Master Race.” Other alt-right figures then launched a boycott of Pizza Hut for its CEO’s statement that the NFL protests had not hurt sales. The Daily Stormer then featured a pizza with a pepperoni arranged in a swatiska to mark the occasion.

Papa John’s responded. “We condemn racism in all forms and any and all hate groups that support it. We do not want these individuals or groups to buy our pizza,” a spokesman told the Louisville Courier-Journal
Quote

brands hurt by association

TheDeamon

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Re: U.S. Embassy Opens in Jerusalem
« Reply #19 on: May 15, 2018, 11:45:47 PM »
Well, the GOP is friendly to Nazis and white supremacists and for a good chunk of their supporters being pro-Israel is all about ushering in the end-times.

No idea why Jewish people would be wary of them.

Except it is the Democrats and affiliates who have the boldly and loudly anti-semites within their ranks.

The Neo-Nazi linkage to Republicans is largely vestigial in nature outside of the DEEP backwoods of the south-eastern US, and even then, they're probably about as likely to be Democrats "because great-great-great-grandpa was" as they are anything else. The Republican "image issue" is with non-Jewish minorities.

Greg Davidson

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Re: U.S. Embassy Opens in Jerusalem
« Reply #20 on: May 16, 2018, 10:27:37 AM »
As an American Jew, I can speak with some insight on why American Jews strongly and consistently tend to favor Democratic candidates (and to note, that means 70/30, not 100%). There is a strong overlap between Jewish values and the values of the Democratic Party, particularly the cultural values of Judaism (as opposed to keeping Shabbat or kosher).  "The stranger" plays an important role in Torah, and in more secular Jewish thought, as in "And you shall not oppress a stranger, for you know the feelings of the stranger, since you were strangers in the land of Egypt".  Try learning that from an early age, and then try to feel comfortable within the Republican Party - it's not easy.

Fenring

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Re: U.S. Embassy Opens in Jerusalem
« Reply #21 on: May 16, 2018, 10:58:09 AM »
It also wouldn't strike me as strange if it turned out the Evangelical movement drove away a lot of non-Christians and sent them to the Democratic Party. I can't imagine a Jewish or Muslim person felt all that great about feeling affiliated with the GOP during the 80's, since they seemed to be branding themselves the Christian Party, but not so much the Religious Party. Now the tables have turned a little bit, with the left being seemingly equal opportunity anti-religious in some quarters (like NYC), but that would probably take quite a while to create a comparable effect in how people of religious faith (or culture) feel towards the other voters for that party. Actually, the only thing that surprises me is that Catholics don't necessarily seem to have been among those driven away from the GOP, since much of the pandering seems to have been directed towards Protestants specifically. Nevertheless I guess some of it may be single issue as well, such as abortion.

Wayward Son

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Re: U.S. Embassy Opens in Jerusalem
« Reply #22 on: May 16, 2018, 12:32:50 PM »