Conservatives often claim that they don't hear Muslims properly condemn the ideology of hatred that inspires acts of terrorism by Islamic extremists. That includes a number of those who post here on Ornery. Well, the grotesque events of this week provide an opportunity to test the sincerity of those condemnations:
So, any condemnations of this ideology from Republicans?
So much to break down here. I'll start with this. Here we have a real problem. Politically motivated violence and it's growth in America. I've written on this before, and I'm of the opinion that this is a serious problem with potential serious results, unlike, say, 5000 Hondurans trying to get to the US, or petulant NFL players, or how full of it any particular Senator is.
Let's look at how this problem is approached by Greg:
1.
Conservatives condemn Y not condemning action X
2. Do
Conservatives condemn action x when conducted by
Conservatives?
3. Have
Republicans condemned action x when conducted by
Conservatives?
Right away, we can see that the subject of the post is not on the condemnation of the ideologies that lead to terrorism. The question asked is "Are conservatives and republicans hypocrites"? You could have just said that, Greg, and saved space. And instead of leaving the question un-answered, waiting for some defense, you could have straight up made the accusation instead of letting it hang over the discussion. It's clever rhetoric though. Perfectly in-bounds. But really, you could have just come out and accused Republicans of being hypocrites, because we all know that's what is happening here.
Where to go from there? So much to break down...
Let's start with condemning the "ideology of hatred" that leads to terrorist actions. This is to differentiate between condemning politically motivated violence itself, and condemning whatever motivated it. You could argue that these latest wackos were motivated by President Trump, or Alex Jones, or Henry Ford, or Louis Farrakhan if you'd like. But Greg, you have not specified what you believe is the exact "ideology of hatred" you would like conservatives to condemn. Is it Trump's condemnation of "globalists", which some people have accused of being a dog whistle for jews? A sane person could probably differentiate, but sane people are not usually moved to political violence by political rhetoric.
So until we know exactly which "ideology of hatred" we are talking about, we don't know exactly the standards you feel we should be judging Republicans on.
I do know that several Republicans and Democrats have often denounced political violence itself, and have asked for toning down political rhetoric that motivates wackos to commit political violence. Often this takes the form of trying to score political points. Is the problem 1)political violence, 2)rhetoric that creates it, or 3)conservatives/liberals who use such rhetoric? How is the question/problem presented? What is the focus?
Next:
Friday - The largest number of simultaneous political assassination attempts in American history, with the targets being those identified by the President, Fox News, and the right-wing media as enemies of the people
Let's be honest. An assassin that mails out fake bombs is a pretty poor assassin. I'd be tempted to not even call him an assassin, or what he attempted to do as assassination attempts. Labeling it as assassination attempts is the only thing that may be as pathetic as mailing fake bombs IF you were actually trying to assassinate anybody. It's possible that this person was so *censored*ing crazy that he actually believed that fake bombs could kill people. It's also possible that some people are so *censored*ing stupid that they believe that fake bombs constitutes an assassination attempt.
This is not to say that it's ok to make bomb threats, send powdered sugar through the mail, or whatever. It's wrong. It's a crime. It's a threat. It's politically motivated threatened violence. People who do it should go to prison. I wouldn't mind if we executed them publicly. It's not to say that this is a sign of a bigger problem, and that political violence needs to be condemned and But as assassination attempts go, this one is off the scale in bad planning.
Saturday - Pittsburgh shooter, echoing the narrative from the President, Fox News, and the right-wing media about Jews bringing in "hostile invaders to dwell among us?", kills 11 Americans at a Synagogue.
OK. I think we have a better idea now of what you believe "hateful ideology" is. The narrative from Cheetoh Jesus and the right-wing media about Jews bringing in hostile invaders. I'm unaware of this narrative, but I probably don't watch as much right-wing media as you do. Nevertheless, the first counter should be that making a statement X, does not equate to making statement Y. Saying Jews are bringing in hostile invaders is not the same as saying "go shoot Jews". We've all been there. We all know that normal people don't shoot up synagogues because of what Fox News or T-Rex Trump says.
Nevertheless, I think it's valid that the growth in political violence can be traced to the growth in hostile political rhetoric. It's a systemic problem. Conservatives sometimes do it, and so do Liberals. There is plenty of blame to go around. Personally, I don't think that it will end until the people that generally make such hostile political rhetoric are ignored. That's why I don't watch a lot of cable news or pay much mind to people on forums who couch either Republicans or Liberals as the primary problem in America. That's at least something of a solution, rather than throwing blame around constantly, or accusing each other of being hypocrites.
Under President Trump, the US government-supported Radio Marti put out a program five months ago attacking George Soros as “multimillionaire Jew” and “the architect of the financial collapse of 2008.” Soros was one of the targets of Friday's assassination attempts
I'm at the point that I believe that you either do not know what an actual assassination attempt is, or that you are deliberately misleading. One requires an attempt at re-education. The other demands ostracism.
I havn't listened to Radio Marti. I believe that George Soros is indeed a multimillionaire jew, though I do not believe that either he, or the Rothschilds, or the Gnomes of Zurich, are the architects behind the financial collapse of 2008. I thought Barny Frank was, or maybe the Fed Reserve, or whatever else you'd like to pick. As far as I know, nobody has tried to assassinate any of them.
Antisemitism is a real problem in America. It's pervasive, and it needs to be addressed, as do all kinds of racism and sexism. I'm not sure if Radio Marti, or condemning Radio Marti, is part of the solution, though I really don't even know what Radio Marti is. Antisemitism seems to draw a great deal of conspiracy theorists and wackos. Conspiracy theorists and wackos are going to be drawn to something, always. I think we can condemn crazy speech, but condemning political violence is first and foremost the most important.
So, any condemnations of this ideology from Republicans?
Well, Greg. Since you're so fixated on this, I will condemn whatever it is that you are talking about. Blank check. Go ahead.
I hereby condemn whomever attempts to frame a particular person, or particular groups of persons, as the source of a problem. I hereby condemn whomever attempts to otherize or call into question the underlying morality of any particular person or groups of personsI hereby condemn political rhetoric that attempts to frame those of different ideologies as underlying source of a problem. There ya go, Greg. You have just one conservative republican. I'm sure I'm the only one in the universe who condemns this. You should look and prove me right.
