Author Topic: 2018 Midterm Elections  (Read 27026 times)

yossarian22c

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Re: 2018 Midterm Elections
« Reply #50 on: November 13, 2018, 01:15:10 PM »
Are we really only going to play by the rules when the "correct" team wins?

Who is asking for a rule change? If Kemp didn't get 50%+1 then the rules say the election goes to a runoff between the top two. It doesn't matter if Abrams got 49.9% of the vote or 25%, those are the rules. If all the votes are counted and he is above this threshold then there isn't a runoff. If all the votes are counted and he is below this number then there is a runoff. Asking for all valid absentee and provisional ballets to be counted isn't some partisan game when the election is this close to a runoff.

As a side note Georgia has very poor electronic election security (probably the worst in the nation). If you go read about some of their electronic voting machines (as resently as 2016) you'll find some interesting issues. There was one lawsuit where the state just happened to "accidentally" do a full wipe on the servers in question two weeks before the trial started. I am not alleging election fraud but unless Georgia has improved their security in the past couple years there are localities where it would be impossible to detect if it did happen because they have 100% electronic voting.

yossarian22c

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Re: 2018 Midterm Elections
« Reply #51 on: November 13, 2018, 01:38:59 PM »
Maine second district ranked choice/instant run off lawsuit.

https://www.npr.org/2018/11/13/667435326/facing-defeat-maine-republican-sues-to-block-states-ranked-choice-voting-law

I don't think this lawsuit has much traction. Hopefully more places with IRV or some similar method of voting could make independent candidates relevant because informed people could vote for the candidate they like best instead of for the person who has the best chance of beating the person they like least.

Seriati

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Re: 2018 Midterm Elections
« Reply #52 on: November 13, 2018, 01:47:17 PM »
Yoss, I'd have no problem with the court shutting that challenge in Maine down.  While it does raise interesting questions, the change was made in 2016, challenging it after the election is just bad faith.  Pretty the same way I feel about challenging election maps immediately prior to an election rather than when they are first created.

Pete at Home

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Re: 2018 Midterm Elections
« Reply #53 on: November 13, 2018, 03:50:03 PM »
Are we really only going to play by the rules when the "correct" team wins?

Who is asking for a rule change? If Kemp didn't get 50%+1 then the rules say the election goes to a runoff between the top two. It doesn't matter if Abrams got 49.9% of the vote or 25%, those are the rules. If all the votes are counted and he is above this threshold then there isn't a runoff. If all the votes are counted and he is below this number then there is a runoff. Asking for all valid absentee and provisional ballets to be counted isn't some partisan game when the election is this close to a runoff.

As a side note Georgia has very poor electronic election security (probably the worst in the nation). If you go read about some of their electronic voting machines (as resently as 2016) you'll find some interesting issues. There was one lawsuit where the state just happened to "accidentally" do a full wipe on the servers in question two weeks before the trial started. I am not alleging election fraud but unless Georgia has improved their security in the past couple years there are localities where it would be impossible to detect if it did happen because they have 100% electronic voting.

Word among my co-workers on the Stacey Abrams staff is that some of my colleagues tried to show reporters, on camera, just how fragile and hackable the GA system is (before the voting started), and that in response, Kemp used his position to charge them with trying to hack the system.  Pretty kill-the-messenger stuff.

Seriati

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Re: 2018 Midterm Elections
« Reply #54 on: November 13, 2018, 04:09:11 PM »
Or, Pete, some of your colleagues attempted to hack the election servers in front of witnesses and Kemp accused them of attempting to hack the election servers.  I get being frustrated with what you think is an unfair system, but searching for say illegal porn so you can report it to the police, still gets you put in jail for searching for illegal porn.

Pete at Home

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Re: 2018 Midterm Elections
« Reply #55 on: November 13, 2018, 04:23:17 PM »
Or, Pete, some of your colleagues attempted to hack the election servers in front of witnesses and Kemp accused them of attempting to hack the election servers. 

What's your source on that, Seriati? 

I'll let your remarks stand so others can see how fair minded you're being about this. :D  Trump's a positive teddy bear compared to Kemp's non-recusal

Seriati

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Re: 2018 Midterm Elections
« Reply #56 on: November 13, 2018, 04:56:32 PM »
Or, Pete, some of your colleagues attempted to hack the election servers in front of witnesses and Kemp accused them of attempting to hack the election servers. 

What's your source on that, Seriati?
 

My source was you, just changed the way you described it from innocent to nefarious (and I hadn't even included what could be a reasonable inference that one wouldn't call reporters to witness how easy it is to hack something, unless they'd already hacked it and therefore knew they could):

Word among my co-workers on the Stacey Abrams staff is that some of my colleagues tried to show reporters, on camera, just how fragile and hackable the GA system is (before the voting started), and that in response, Kemp used his position to charge them with trying to hack the system.  Pretty kill-the-messenger stuff.

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I'll let your remarks stand so others can see how fair minded you're being about this. :D  Trump's a positive teddy bear compared to Kemp's non-recusal

I don't know what happened Pete.  I don't trust any partisans.  I've read the columnist I cited before and think he generally writes reasonable stuff, that's why I asked.

Most fights are not between "good and evil" they're between 2 people who both think they're right.

Pete at Home

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Re: 2018 Midterm Elections
« Reply #57 on: November 13, 2018, 05:08:21 PM »
Or, Pete, some of your colleagues attempted to hack the election servers in front of witnesses and Kemp accused them of attempting to hack the election servers. 

What's your source on that, Seriati?
 

My source was you, just changed the way you described it from innocent to nefarious (and I hadn't even included what could be a reasonable inference that one wouldn't call reporters to witness how easy it is to hack something, unless they'd already hacked it and therefore knew they could):

Word among my co-workers on the Stacey Abrams staff is that some of my colleagues tried to show reporters, on camera, just how fragile and hackable the GA system is (before the voting started), and that in response, Kemp used his position to charge them with trying to hack the system.  Pretty kill-the-messenger stuff.

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I'll let your remarks stand so others can see how fair minded you're being about this. :D  Trump's a positive teddy bear compared to Kemp's non-recusal

I don't know what happened Pete.  I don't trust any partisans.  I've read the columnist I cited before and think he generally writes reasonable stuff, that's why I asked.

Most fights are not between "good and evil" they're between 2 people who both think they're right.

You asked me if I'd heard anything working for Stacey,  I gave you something; you changed "reporters" to "witnesses" and pulled facts out of your ass to turn a corrupt official into a superhero.  I'm done.

Seriati

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Re: 2018 Midterm Elections
« Reply #58 on: November 13, 2018, 05:50:40 PM »
I'm not willing to accept that Kemp is a "corrupt" official simply because Stacey thinks it's so.  The write up of the media has been deceptive at best.  I have no doubt that Stacey thinks she's right and Kemp is trying to steal the election, and that Kemp thinks he's right and that Stacey is trying to steal the election.

I was hoping to get some insight into what was really happening, and I should have thanked you on the hacking point instead of being snarky in the response.

Pete at Home

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Re: 2018 Midterm Elections
« Reply #59 on: November 13, 2018, 06:03:30 PM »
I'm not willing to accept that Kemp is a "corrupt" official simply because Stacey thinks it's so.

I've never met Stacey.  I don't know what she thinks about Kemp.  I did not cite her.  I cited hearsay from my colleagues per your request.

If Kemp thought he was right, he would not be doing the things he's doing to win.  If his followers believed they had a majority, they wouldn't be putting their dogs on my colleagues and stealing Stacey signs from their neighbors' yards.

What's your dog in this fight?  Do you have any connections to GA? Your arguments seem really attenuated:

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The write up of the media has been deceptive at best.

Based on one or two attenuated arguments by Erickson?  Did anyone else on Ornery find them convincing?

yossarian22c

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Re: 2018 Midterm Elections
« Reply #60 on: November 16, 2018, 06:28:53 PM »

Pete at Home

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Re: 2018 Midterm Elections
« Reply #61 on: November 17, 2018, 10:52:31 PM »
 As best I can tail, she was the real thing. A liberal with principles, what a track record for fighting what she believes in and also for negotiating in getting the daily job of government done.

Pete at Home

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Re: 2018 Midterm Elections
« Reply #62 on: November 18, 2018, 08:19:28 PM »
Would anyone want to see a copy of the flyers that secret corporations of unknown parties wrote up in mass and sent out to intimidate people into voting against Stacey Abrams? 

cherrypoptart

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Re: 2018 Midterm Elections
« Reply #63 on: November 19, 2018, 02:52:04 AM »
Sure, what do they say?

cherrypoptart

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Re: 2018 Midterm Elections
« Reply #64 on: November 19, 2018, 03:02:59 AM »
I did look around for reasons to vote against Abrams and found this:

http://insideradvantage.com/2018/05/17/unethical-abrams-10-ethics-reasons-why-georgians-should-not-vote-for-stacey-abrams-for-governor/

I don't know if any of it is true but #5 was a bit concerning:

#5 Abrams enriched herself with almost half a million dollars from part time work from her non-profits focused on voter registration. As someone who helped register over 20,000 students during my time in college, and who has poured blood, sweat and tears into nonprofits for modest pay, this one really gets me!  She claims that her New Georgia Project, registered 200,000 voters (she used to claim “of color” but has recently dropped that term) between 2014 and 2016.  However, she refused to be transparent and back that claim up with any documents or data, while national registration numbers in fact indicate that registration during these years was below average.  Despite many questions and concerns about the effectiveness of this effort, Abrams paid herself $427,500 over this two-year period for part time work!

Moreover, the project majorly failed in its fundraising and registration goals, while in addition to making herself half a millionaire, she paid friends and other political allies another $1.5 million of the $3.6 million the effort raised.  $1.9 million makes for quite a friends and family plan!! Third Sector Development and the Voter Access Institute are her two non-profits behind the New Georgia Project.  IRS Form 990’s from those two organizations over the two-year period show Abrams paid herself over $117 per hour!

#7 also didn't seem like something you'd expect from a Jimmy Carter type honest politician making sure they were caring custodians of the taxpayers' money. If it's true, which it may very well not be.

She even bragged about this questionable use of taxpayer funds… according to an interview in Reflections on Georgia Politics with Bob Short, Abrams said, “When I left the City of Atlanta to run for office, I had to figure out a way to afford my house and I started a consulting firm. I had created a couple of opportunities for the city and they hired me to come on board. And when I got ready to leave, they said, you’re not leaving without telling us how this works and so they hired me and I negotiated a pretty good price for myself and built a reputation as someone who understood the intersection of public and private enterprise when it comes to particularly public/private development.”



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Maybe that's all hogwash though and just the type of dirty lies you are talking about people spreading about her, Pete.

cherrypoptart

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Re: 2018 Midterm Elections
« Reply #65 on: November 19, 2018, 03:11:17 AM »
I found some things in her favor too though:

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/5-reasons-excited-stacey-abrams-162414255.html

"She moonlights as a romance novelist (!).
Publishing under the pseudonym Selena Montgomery, she’s the author of a number of books, including titles like Hidden Sins, Secrets and Lies, and Reckless."

That might be worth checking out. Pretty cool though that she's a novelist.

Well, the other good things about here there weren't really good reasons for most Republicans to cross party lines and vote for her. Pro-abortion, soft on crime, Sanders's endorsement, and if Obama taught us anything it's that electing someone just because they'll be the first black whatever is a huge mistake. Not saying she'd be as bad at her job as Obama was, but being the first fill in the blank is no reason to vote for someone.

Pete at Home

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Re: 2018 Midterm Elections
« Reply #66 on: November 19, 2018, 09:32:43 AM »
Sure, what do they say?

I think the creepiest and most outrageous one says that Georgia law allows your neighbors to find out whether you voted or not.   In that anybody who didn’t vote would be exposed to their neighbors as the ones that left their dirty radicals get pictured woman into the governors suite. And there’s a picture of Stacy Abrams,  darkened with Photoshop like time magazine did with OJ Simpson in the 1990s . It’s basically with those we are watching you, so you better do your part to fight Stacey Abrams