Author Topic: The Meuller Report  (Read 167380 times)

Seriati

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Re: The Meuller Report
« Reply #400 on: April 23, 2020, 02:44:40 PM »
Lol, I'll read it when I have some time.  Still sounds like a nothing burger.  Whether Russia tried to help Trump or undermine confidence in the election doesn't have anything to do with whether Trump conspired with Russia. 

That's the fun lie that the left keeps selling, the mere fact that you see the report as relevant on that exposes how deep the selling of that lie  has ingrained itself into people's consciousness.

DonaldD

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Re: The Meuller Report
« Reply #401 on: April 23, 2020, 03:26:16 PM »
Just another example of cognitive bias where the right cannot admit that Russia interfered with the US election, because that could be used to call into question Trump's legitimacy, and by such refusal, the right must refuse to respond to foreign threats against US democracy.

ScottF

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Re: The Meuller Report
« Reply #402 on: April 23, 2020, 03:36:49 PM »
Just another example of cognitive bias where the right cannot admit that Russia interfered with the US election, because that could be used to call into question Trump's legitimacy, and by such refusal, the right must refuse to respond to foreign threats against US democracy.

I've never heard anyone on the right claim that Russia wasn't actively trying to and/or succeeding with interfering with the election. Maybe we have a different definition of the right.

DonaldD

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Re: The Meuller Report
« Reply #403 on: April 23, 2020, 04:21:33 PM »
I've never heard anyone on the right claim that Russia wasn't actively trying to and/or succeeding with interfering with the election. Maybe we have a different definition of the right.
I doubt our definition of "right" (wing/leaning) is significantly different.  I think it far more likely that you weren't paying attention.

Poll: Langer Research
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Leaders in both parties in Congress have said the evidence establishes that Russia tried to influence the election. Yet just 38 percent of leaned Republicans and 32 percent of strong conservatives believe this to be the case
As of April, 2017, 68% of strong conservatives either strongly or somewhat disputed that Russia interfered (or had no opinion). 

Oh, and if it wasn't obvious - my earlier response was more than a little tongue in cheek - I was responding to a post generalizing the left by a poster whose partisan shields are consistently set to maximum.

wmLambert

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Re: The Meuller Report
« Reply #404 on: April 23, 2020, 04:25:49 PM »
Everybody believes Russia wanted to interfere with the 2016 election. Oh wait. The Obama administration didn't. They had all the notice beforehand and probably thought any meddling would be pro-Hillary, because she was the anointed one already bought and paid for by Russia. They did nothing.

Believing that Russua ever favored Trump is the conspiracy theory that no one thinks is true. There is no one Left or Right who don't believe they did try to stick their thumbs on the scale, but everyone also knows their best interest always rested with Hillary.

Can the tongue-in-cheeker possibly answer this without smirking and more projection?
« Last Edit: April 23, 2020, 04:28:24 PM by wmLambert »

yossarian22c

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Re: The Meuller Report
« Reply #405 on: April 23, 2020, 04:30:40 PM »
There is no one Left or Right who don't believe they did try to stick their thumbs on the scale, but everyone also knows their best interest always rested with Hillary.

Wow - wow just. Assuming they were supporting Hillary ignores most of what their online social media accounts were doing at the time. Other than the ones that tried to get opposing groups to show up at the same place on the same day - the pure chaos play.

DonaldD

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Re: The Meuller Report
« Reply #406 on: April 23, 2020, 04:47:30 PM »
Believing that Russua ever favored Trump is the conspiracy theory that no one thinks is true.
You mean, no one aside from the Republicans currently in the Senate?
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There is no one Left or Right who don't believe they did try to stick their thumbs on the scale
You mean, no one aside from the 68% of strong conservatives who admitted to not believing that Russia did try to interfere with the election

Really, people just provided evidence of these two things in the past few hours, yet you ignore those referenced pieces of evidence and blindly stride forward.  The weird thing is you probably still won't be able to process what you just misrepresented, even after your nose is rubbed in it.

fizz

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Re: The Meuller Report
« Reply #407 on: April 23, 2020, 05:50:30 PM »
Believing that Russua ever favored Trump is the conspiracy theory that no one thinks is true. There is no one Left or Right who don't believe they did try to stick their thumbs on the scale, but everyone also knows their best interest always rested with Hillary.

Personally witnessed true story: between 2012 and 2017 I had a lot of business negotiations with Russians because they were interest in doing a potentially really big project based on one of our products (it ended in nothing after a lot of wasted money... I started out having nothing against Russians in general, even finding them mildly sympathetic, and I ended with a strong distrust and dislike of any self-styled Russian businessman or politician, but that's another story).

Anyway, I had a lot of dealings, included drunken dealings (because sometimes stereotypes are that for a reason) with some quite top tier Russians (and ex-soviet republics) politicians and businessmen.
All the Russians I talked with talked a lot when drinking, and loved to boast and express their very unsubtle political opinions. During these one-sided discussions, it was quite evident that all of them hated with a fiery hate both Obama and Hillary.
On the contrary, they were all absolutely delighted by the idea of Trump getting elected.

At some point, it came out the news that one Russian billionaire living in the US that they dealt with had edged his bets by donating to Hillary campaign too in addition to Trump campaign, and they were all gleefully commenting how this would have trashed his political support back in Moscow (they were happy because now that guy would have needed them to get back in good graces at home).

Oh, even if they loved to imply how they were controlling or influencing this or that, I don't believe the ones I was in contact with really knew or were involved in any way in such maneuvers, and if they had been they would not have talked for sure with me about that. One thing I learned about that kind of people is how much they love to brag and outright lie.

But their feelings? Those were very very clear: Obama was the devil, Hillary was the arch-devil, and once they knew Trump had won they were in heaven.

Aris Katsaris

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Re: The Meuller Report
« Reply #408 on: April 23, 2020, 09:43:08 PM »
There is no one Left or Right who don't believe they did try to stick their thumbs on the scale, but everyone also knows their best interest always rested with Hillary.

I, for one, don't know that "their best interest always rested with Hillary", so that disproves your claim that "everyone" knows it.

You guys have all seen the Trump-Putin mural, right? (https://time.com/4336396/lithuania-mural-donald-trump-vladimir-putin-kiss/ )

This was created in Lithuania back in 2016, many months before Trump's election. People were talking about the love that Trump and Putin had for each other from way back then -- they weren't talking about the love between Hillary and Putin.

Wayward Son

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Re: The Meuller Report
« Reply #409 on: April 24, 2020, 04:59:05 PM »
Just another example of cognitive bias where the right cannot admit that Russia interfered with the US election, because that could be used to call into question Trump's legitimacy, and by such refusal, the right must refuse to respond to foreign threats against US democracy.

I've never heard anyone on the right claim that Russia wasn't actively trying to and/or succeeding with interfering with the election. Maybe we have a different definition of the right.

Quote
"First of all, I want no help from any country, and I haven't been given help from any country,” Trump told reporters Tuesday...

wmLambert

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Re: The Meuller Report
« Reply #410 on: April 24, 2020, 06:34:34 PM »
I see. Plenty of first-hand parochial beliefs that some Russian businessmen hated Obama and Hillary - yet never addressed the fact that they also believed they had both of them bought and paid for. Isn't it worse to despise those you think you have on your own team?

It wasn't just one oligarch who gave millions of dollars to Hillary, it was many who invested in her winning. There is no disjointing that came from trying to get into Hillary's emails. That is just more blackmail material that puts her deeper into their debt ...or ownership.

Trump was not the guy who was in charge of the committee that allowed our uranium to go to Russia. Quid. Pro. Quo.

TheDrake

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Re: The Meuller Report
« Reply #411 on: April 25, 2020, 08:14:55 AM »
I see. Plenty of first-hand parochial beliefs that some Russian businessmen hated Obama and Hillary - yet never addressed the fact that they also believed they had both of them bought and paid for. Isn't it worse to despise those you think you have on your own team?

It wasn't just one oligarch who gave millions of dollars to Hillary, it was many who invested in her winning. There is no disjointing that came from trying to get into Hillary's emails. That is just more blackmail material that puts her deeper into their debt ...or ownership.

Trump was not the guy who was in charge of the committee that allowed our uranium to go to Russia. Quid. Pro. Quo.

Lie. Clinton was not in charge of that committee. And it wasn't "our" uranium it was a joint venture between Canada and South Africa, and also who cares? It's not like Russia didn't have any plutonium before.

Kasandra

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Re: The Meuller Report
« Reply #412 on: April 25, 2020, 11:23:58 AM »
Don't confuse him.  He's dealing with enough bad information already.

wmLambert

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Re: The Meuller Report
« Reply #413 on: April 25, 2020, 02:57:39 PM »
...Lie. Clinton was not in charge of that committee. And it wasn't "our" uranium it was a joint venture between Canada and South Africa, and also who cares? It's not like Russia didn't have any plutonium before.

Are you serious? Hillary had veto power on that committee. "...Peter Schweitzer and The New York Times documented how Bill Clinton collected hundreds of thousands of dollars in Russian speaking fees and his charitable foundation collected millions in donations from parties interested in the deal while Hillary Clinton presided on the Committee on Foreign Investment in the United States.

The Obama administration and the Clintons defended their actions at the time, insisting there was no evidence that any Russians or donors engaged in wrongdoing and there was no national security reason for any member of the committee to oppose the Uranium One deal.

But FBI, Energy Department and court documents reviewed by The Hill show the FBI in fact had gathered substantial evidence well before the committee’s decision that Vadim Mikerin — the main Russian overseeing Putin’s nuclear expansion inside the United States — was engaged in wrongdoing starting in 2009.

Then-Attorney General Eric Holder was among the Obama administration officials joining Hillary Clinton on the Committee on Foreign Investment in the United States at the time the Uranium One deal was approved. Multiple current and former government officials told The Hill they did not know whether the FBI or DOJ ever alerted committee members to the criminal activity they uncovered." https://thehill.com/policy/national-security/355749-fbi-uncovered-russian-bribery-plot-before-obama-administration

Kasandra

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Re: The Meuller Report
« Reply #414 on: April 25, 2020, 04:31:20 PM »
Quote
Are you serious? Hillary had veto power on that committee.

No, she didn't.  You're misinformed. Everything else you allege is speculation, no matter how fervently you believe every shred of innuendo and inference.  The NY Times article raises interesting points about possible conflicts of interest, but doesn't draw any conclusions or make any accusations.  I'm surprised you don't talk about the pizza parlors, because QAnon has basically PROVEN that she's still running that operation.


LetterRip

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Re: The Meuller Report
« Reply #415 on: April 26, 2020, 03:59:12 PM »
I think ScottF is saying that wearing PPE such as a mask in your own car with noone else in it is not protecting anyone and thus is 'panic' rather than rational.

Kasandra

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Re: The Meuller Report
« Reply #416 on: April 26, 2020, 05:35:20 PM »
I think ScottF is saying that wearing PPE such as a mask in your own car with noone else in it is not protecting anyone and thus is 'panic' rather than rational.

Mebbe, but even though it looks odd some people are doing it out of "an abundance of caution".  That's not something to be disparaged.

TheDeamon

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Re: The Meuller Report
« Reply #417 on: April 27, 2020, 03:53:18 AM »
I think ScottF is saying that wearing PPE such as a mask in your own car with noone else in it is not protecting anyone and thus is 'panic' rather than rational.

Mebbe, but even though it looks odd some people are doing it out of "an abundance of caution".  That's not something to be disparaged.

Or because, as I mentioned, they're going to be back out of the car in a few minutes and wearing the mask again, so it's not worth the hassle of taking the thing off(in a safe manner) only to put it right back on again(safely).