Author Topic: liberal tech companies  (Read 931 times)

TheDrake

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liberal tech companies
« on: April 10, 2019, 02:26:12 PM »
There's no denying that tech companies lean to the liberal rather than the conservative. But given the makeup of the country, how should we interpret the fact that none of the big five (Google, Amazon, Facebook, Microsoft and Apple) lean conservative? Add in Twitter, Uber, Air B&B, along with most of the sharing economy.

Are conservatives just really bad at building technology companies?

D.W.

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Re: liberal tech companies
« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2019, 03:03:19 PM »
First, the name "conservative" is a big hint.  If accurately applied, yes, they would be really bad at building technology companies because that act is "progressive".  :P

With that out of the way, the companies you mentioned are inclusive (a liberal fave) because it's just good business to be so.  The market they cater to is more inclusive than the wider population. 

"Conservative" policies are already rather favorable to these economic juggernauts.  Why not reach out and pay lip service towards the other side of the aisle? 

Age and geography do tend to funnel more liberal types into tech, or at least the preponderance of their work force and innovators, if not the owners.  I would caution however against the belief that they are where they are because of the "side" they chose.  They have just as likely chosen to portray themselves as liberal because it makes good business sense. 

That they have amassed this much wealth and power and aren't universally seen as evil by liberals/progressives/Democrats is quite impressive.  Reinforcing that they aren't of the conservative/Republican "team" seems more like propaganda than politics to me. 

They could easily lose favor in the eyes of those who lean liberal.  It would take a lot for equivalent repercussions (political and financial) to be visited upon them by the other side.

TheDeamon

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Re: liberal tech companies
« Reply #2 on: April 11, 2019, 04:07:26 AM »
I think you'd find the Tech sector is more conservative than you think it is. They just hide their colors very well, more often than not.

For good reason, as a handful of examples have demonstrated over the past few years. (Prop 9 donor list leak, the "Google Manifesto," etc)

More generally, wealthy individuals tend to "play both sides" on the politics game, and in the game of influence/effort, they're likely to focus most of their attention on either the side they support, or the powers the be, in the event those "powers that be" are likely to screw with their stuff.

I'm inclined to suspect a lot of the top level "we're Democrats, we give to Democratic causes" going on in the Tech Sector is just as much self-preservation as it is anything else. Being aware that they have a liberal lynch mob-in-waiting working on the floors beneath them has to give them warm fuzzies too.

rightleft22

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Re: liberal tech companies
« Reply #3 on: April 11, 2019, 10:24:22 AM »
I don’t think its surprising that companies create personas that leans to the left if only because the language of the left tends to be more fuzzy so seemingly inclusive.

People tend to like to think their better then they are. You know everyone equal and wanting to do better be better, live better... not that the right don't value those things just that the language used tends to sound lefty. In the end its just a means to get as many people to buy the crap we make.

TheDrake

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Re: liberal tech companies
« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2019, 11:40:41 AM »
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I'm inclined to suspect a lot of the top level "we're Democrats, we give to Democratic causes" going on in the Tech Sector is just as much self-preservation as it is anything else. Being aware that they have a liberal lynch mob-in-waiting working on the floors beneath them has to give them warm fuzzies too.

Yeah, ok, I buy that. I guess the question is more about why are the liberals such a majority in tech that they even CAN force the conservatives to hide? The country splits 50/50, but tech doesn't. We're not talking about how auto mechanics have to hide their conservative views.

Chik-fil-a doesn't mind pissing off liberals. Their CEO doesn't feel like he has to play make-believe.

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Age and geography do tend to funnel more liberal types into tech, or at least the preponderance of their work force and innovators, if not the owners.  I would caution however against the belief that they are where they are because of the "side" they chose.

I'm not implying causation, just musing about the correlation. And also the vaccuum of innovation "for the right". Millions of people loathe Google, Facebook, Twitter for censorship and bias, yet no real alternative has arisen.

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Of course, merely wishing for a conservative Facebook won’t make it so. There’s already an alternative right-wing Twitter named Gab, and after two years it seems barely afloat. It’s also not clear an ideologically pure social network would even be that much fun to use; as Joe Weisenthal put it: “a right-wing only social network will give users no way to trigger the libs, and so what’s the point? People will just get bored.”

Crunch

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Re: liberal tech companies
« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2019, 09:01:27 PM »
There's no denying that tech companies lean to the liberal rather than the conservative. But given the makeup of the country, how should we interpret the fact that none of the big five (Google, Amazon, Facebook, Microsoft and Apple) lean conservative? Add in Twitter, Uber, Air B&B, along with most of the sharing economy.

Are conservatives just really bad at building technology companies?

Of course, conservatives are just too stupid to build technology companies. Who’s shocked that’s your interpretation?  Nobody.

How about you take a look at where these companies locate their HQ? How about that discrimination against conservatives is openly done at these companies? Being located in far left wacko areas and hiring only the bien pensant, actively suppressing conservatives as part of the corporate culture, anyone think those things could be a factor? Nah, just assume only smart people are liberals. Brilliant

DJQuag

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Re: liberal tech companies
« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2019, 09:23:29 PM »
There's no denying that tech companies lean to the liberal rather than the conservative. But given the makeup of the country, how should we interpret the fact that none of the big five (Google, Amazon, Facebook, Microsoft and Apple) lean conservative? Add in Twitter, Uber, Air B&B, along with most of the sharing economy.

Are conservatives just really bad at building technology companies?

Of course, conservatives are just too stupid to build technology companies. Who’s shocked that’s your interpretation?  Nobody.

How about you take a look at where these companies locate their HQ? How about that discrimination against conservatives is openly done at these companies? Being located in far left wacko areas and hiring only the bien pensant, actively suppressing conservatives as part of the corporate culture, anyone think those things could be a factor? Nah, just assume only smart people are liberals. Brilliant

Good point dude.

Talk to us about the sucessful conservative tech companies. This ain't Facebook, buddy.

LOL.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2019, 09:25:50 PM by DJQuag »

DJQuag

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Re: liberal tech companies
« Reply #7 on: April 11, 2019, 09:50:31 PM »
Know what I think?

Law. Medicine. To a lesser extent, engineering.

It depends on listening to and believing what your teachers are telling you. It's kinda inherent. Maybe you expand after your qualifications...maybe.

Tech? Tech is raw. In some ways the edge has been worn off, but it's still new. You have to fight to do new things just to be acknowledged.

But tech is a relatively brand new field where the people who think outside the box gain the greatest reward.

So, yeah. The libs control the tech companies. Deal with it.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2019, 09:54:32 PM by DJQuag »

TheDrake

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Re: liberal tech companies
« Reply #8 on: April 11, 2019, 11:06:53 PM »
I never said anything about stupidity. So tech companies are in liberal areas. Yes, largely. There's nothing that prevents a person from moving to those areas. You know you don't have to be born there.

Mark Zuckerberg and the rest of the big founders weren't begging for a low level job at Google. How would liberal bias stop a conservative from doing the same thing?

I'm hoping you can come up with an actual perspective, Crunch.

TheDeamon

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Re: liberal tech companies
« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2019, 12:39:25 AM »
Quote
I'm inclined to suspect a lot of the top level "we're Democrats, we give to Democratic causes" going on in the Tech Sector is just as much self-preservation as it is anything else. Being aware that they have a liberal lynch mob-in-waiting working on the floors beneath them has to give them warm fuzzies too.

Yeah, ok, I buy that. I guess the question is more about why are the liberals such a majority in tech that they even CAN force the conservatives to hide? The country splits 50/50, but tech doesn't. We're not talking about how auto mechanics have to hide their conservative views.

They mostly require University Educated personnel in order to perform the tasks their business is centered around. Most Universities have become Leftist training camps, so the fact that their only place to hire "sufficiently skilled" personnel also carries a high tendency of also including
1) Recently indoctrinated Left-leaning graduates.
2) Young populations with "in demand" options. You know, that whole expression about being liberal at 20 and having a heart, vs being a conservative at 35 or being Liberal at 35 and having no brain.

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Chik-fil-a doesn't mind pissing off liberals. Their CEO doesn't feel like he has to play make-believe.

Chik-fil-a doesn't require a highly trained Tech-Savy workforce with 4+ years of instruction on Computer Science related topics. Their customer base also trends towards more conservative leaning regions of the country.

Quote
I'm not implying causation, just musing about the correlation. And also the vaccuum of innovation "for the right". Millions of people loathe Google, Facebook, Twitter for censorship and bias, yet no real alternative has arisen.

Probably because most Conservatives/Moderates don't spend most of their time on Social Media? They're living their life in person, not electronically. In some cases, they may actually be security conscious enough that a lot of their private life remains mostly private, and doesn't make its way to social media at all.

In that respect, they're a demographic that doesn't generate a whole lot of revenue, and since they're not particularly active online, it makes for a "slow moving social media experience" which keeps others away.

As to Google, while Conservatives are becoming increasingly uneasy about Alphabet in general, the search results are unparalleled at present, although they get caught out at "enough" shenanigans regarding traffic shaping and Conservative topics, and they probably will eventually start aggressively looking for other options. They just haven't been caught out with a "large enough breach of trust" for people to really look at the other options.

TheDrake

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Re: liberal tech companies
« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2019, 07:45:04 AM »
I don't know about the college theory. There are many Republicans with degrees - Romney basically equalled Obama in that category.

Age might be more of an indicator. Most of the disruptors in tech are 20-30 years old. But within that group, 37% supported Trump.

As for social media, I believe we've heard about how much "shadow banning" is hurting conservative voices. That would only happen if there were a significant presence relying on social media for distribution, wouldn't it?

I tend to wonder if it is about disruption. The traditional conservative tends to like things the way they are, and are wary of radical change. Would that naturally limit the number of people who have the attitude to create an Uber?

There definitely is validity to the potential for liberal backlash. Uber has come under fire with campaigns to delete accounts. But there's the other side, conservatives tend to be more dramatic by destroying the products they own if a company draws their ire - from Keurig to Nike.

I also wonder if conservatives tend to be drawn to other pursuits, like finance rather than tech. Other types of engineering, like civil or petroleum, perhaps? Fields where disruption is not a necessary or even desirable quality?

Seriati

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Re: liberal tech companies
« Reply #11 on: April 12, 2019, 10:46:35 AM »
I think age is the biggest factor.  Tech is dominated by the young.

I also think one shouldn't discount that leftism is the new religion.  Just like 60 years ago conservatives could use moral authority to force someone with unconventional ideas into the fringes, now someone on the left can do an alter call on someone even expressing a reasonable opinion and get them fired and even blacklisted.

I mean we saw how controversial it turned out to be to assert that jobs in tech may not be appealing to women and that rather than any active discrimination may be influencing how hard it is to find enough women in those jobs (the religious left immediately rebranded this as an assertion that women were incapable of doing the job).  Why would a bright conservative be interested in going into a tech company where every loose word risked them having their entire career and life destroyed, when there are other lucrative possibilities available?
« Last Edit: April 12, 2019, 10:49:21 AM by Seriati »

Fenring

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Re: liberal tech companies
« Reply #12 on: April 12, 2019, 11:41:47 AM »
I mean we saw how controversial it turned out to be to assert that jobs in tech may not be appealing to women and that rather than any active discrimination may be influencing how hard it is to find enough women in those jobs

I had a lot of trouble parsing this phrase; would you mind elaborating?

Quote
(the religious left immediately rebranded this as an assertion that women were incapable of doing the job).

When did this happen?

Seriati

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Re: liberal tech companies
« Reply #13 on: April 12, 2019, 12:34:10 PM »
It was a reference to James Damore, we had an entire thread on the issue. 

Fenring

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Re: liberal tech companies
« Reply #14 on: April 12, 2019, 12:39:25 PM »
It was a reference to James Damore, we had an entire thread on the issue.

I thought so, but the sentence I couldn't parse made it sound like something other than what Damore said. I re-read it again and finally figured out the syntax:

Quote
we saw how controversial it turned out to be to assert that jobs in tech may not be appealing to women, and that, rather than any active discrimination, may be influencing how hard it is to find enough women in those jobs
« Last Edit: April 12, 2019, 12:41:30 PM by Fenring »

TheDeamon

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Re: liberal tech companies
« Reply #15 on: April 12, 2019, 02:26:04 PM »
I don't know about the college theory. There are many Republicans with degrees - Romney basically equalled Obama in that category.

And how old is Romney? When did he go to college?

When did most of the people working in Silicon Valley(Apple, Alphabet and Facebook specifically) graduate from school?

I think you'd find most of Silicon Valley graduated after 1995.

TheDrake

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Re: liberal tech companies
« Reply #16 on: April 12, 2019, 02:38:50 PM »
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And how old is Romney? When did he go to college?

I wasn't clear. I mean they split the 4-year college grad electorate 50/50. That included the young people.

I also think you're underestimating how many 40+ engineers there are working in the Valley.

TheDeamon

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Re: liberal tech companies
« Reply #17 on: April 12, 2019, 02:46:20 PM »
I also think you're underestimating how many 40+ engineers there are working in the Valley.

A lot, for various reasons, not the least of which is that "Silicon Valley" had it's start back around 1949 as I recall, thanks to a certain individual moving there to care for his ailing mother, IIRC.

But that is part of why I placed emphasis on Facebook, Google and company. Google's founders were grad students in the early 90's. Zuckerberg dropped out of College after Y2K.

DJQuag

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Re: liberal tech companies
« Reply #18 on: April 13, 2019, 12:20:14 PM »
I'm hoping you can come up with an actual perspective, Crunch.

Don't you dare even imply it, Hitler.

I know he's largely pissed off for a bit while I've been off work and therefore drinking too much. I would hope you would give me the benefit of the doubt that it was because I was posting more and not cause I'm him.

P.S. Before you get all uppity about me calling you Hitler, understand I thought we were playing a game. You called me Crunch. Isn't this how the game goes?

cherrypoptart

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Re: liberal tech companies
« Reply #19 on: April 13, 2019, 06:18:31 PM »
Well... that sure escalated quickly.

At the risk of stepping into the middle of something and taking a stray elbow to the face as I try in good faith to de-escalate, The Drake was referencing something Crunch posted before your posts.

Perhaps another part of why conservatives are less visible in tech is the same reason they are in Hollywood. There may be many more than you see but they stay on the downlow to avoid boycotts, protests in the streets, and doxxing with accompanying stalking, public harassment, vandalism, and other such generally acceptable expressions of liberal tolerance for different viewpoints.

DJQuag

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Re: liberal tech companies
« Reply #20 on: April 13, 2019, 07:02:57 PM »
Well, crap.

You're right, Cherry, and thanks for stepping in and pushing me to look at it.

TheDrake, sorry. My reading comprehension isn't exactly tip top at the moment and I took what you said the wrong way.

I don't like how Crunch operates and kinda went off on a hair trigger when I thought someone was accusing me of being him.

Again, I'm sorry.

In better news for me and the board, I'll be off my mandatory  (gotta take my leave days) time off starting Monday so you won't need to be concerned about me leaving my stank round the boards in the way I have been the past week or two. Hell, once I come out of this I'll probably be too embarrassed to post for a bit.

D.W.

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Re: liberal tech companies
« Reply #21 on: April 14, 2019, 12:10:58 AM »
But thanks for calling Crunch Hitler.  I'm sure it's nothing at all like feeding your gremlins after midnight.   ::)

Fenring

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Re: liberal tech companies
« Reply #22 on: April 14, 2019, 01:45:45 AM »
Don't you dare even imply it, Hitler.

DJQuag: Please see your

Crap, I don't have your email address. Never mind!

Crunch

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Re: liberal tech companies
« Reply #23 on: April 14, 2019, 09:42:01 AM »
There's no denying that tech companies lean to the liberal rather than the conservative. But given the makeup of the country, how should we interpret the fact that none of the big five (Google, Amazon, Facebook, Microsoft and Apple) lean conservative? Add in Twitter, Uber, Air B&B, along with most of the sharing economy.

Are conservatives just really bad at building technology companies?

Of course, conservatives are just too stupid to build technology companies. Who’s shocked that’s your interpretation?  Nobody.

How about you take a look at where these companies locate their HQ? How about that discrimination against conservatives is openly done at these companies? Being located in far left wacko areas and hiring only the bien pensant, actively suppressing conservatives as part of the corporate culture, anyone think those things could be a factor? Nah, just assume only smart people are liberals. Brilliant

Good point dude.

Talk to us about the sucessful conservative tech companies. This ain't Facebook, buddy.

LOL.

IBM, Nearly $80 billion in revenue. PayPal, CEO is openly conservative. Oracle, Larry Ellison is a huge Republican donor. Dell, big republican backer. Intel, CEO hosts Trump fundraisers. Bitcoin, CEO is a registered Republican.

They’re not Facebook, bro.  How many more you need?

 :o

TheDrake

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Re: liberal tech companies
« Reply #24 on: April 14, 2019, 07:28:13 PM »
Quote

IBM, Nearly $80 billion in revenue. PayPal, CEO is openly conservative. Oracle, Larry Ellison is a huge Republican donor. Dell, big republican backer. Intel, CEO hosts Trump fundraisers. Bitcoin, CEO is a registered Republican.

They’re not Facebook, bro.  How many more you need?

 :o

IBM and oracle aren't exactly being run by their founders. Likewise Intel. Dell is a good example. Fintech is an area I hadn't thought about, I would imagine that has more allure to conservatives.

D.W.

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Re: liberal tech companies
« Reply #25 on: April 15, 2019, 08:50:40 AM »
That sounds a bit like a moved goal post to me.  Even if a company isn't "run by" their conservative founder/owner, in some cases (not sure in these) they are still the "face of the company".

So they were an innovator, answering part of the original question.  Or as a figurehead/spokesperson, there are indeed conservative examples. 

TheDrake

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Re: liberal tech companies
« Reply #26 on: April 15, 2019, 09:40:33 AM »
Quote
Are conservatives just really bad at building technology companies?

I intended to imply founding with the original question. That doesn't mean that Ellison can't be creative, transformative, or successful.

And now I have to admit that I made a terrible false statement about Ellison. Double checking his Biography, he was exactly the kind of founder I was referring to. This is a good counter example. Maybe it's not as much tech companies as tech companies known by the public. I doubt the average person would know that oracle or SAP exist.

scifibum

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Re: liberal tech companies
« Reply #27 on: April 15, 2019, 01:54:25 PM »
I work for a large tech company founded and headquartered in Silicon Valley, but at an office in one of the most conservative cities in UT.

The company has an inclusive, pro-LGBTQ culture. This is a smart business decision. It doesn't stop normal Republicans from wanting to work here (it probably stops some of the more homophobic people of whatever political stripes). It also makes LGBTQ people and allies want to work here more than they would otherwise. So: pro gay marriage. Same approach with stated values on gender equality, and on racial diversity (though gender equality in particular continues to be a problem like at most companies). Again, these positions don't alienate reasonable people from wanting to work here, but having them makes others appreciate working here more than they would otherwise.

These "cultural values" are probably enough to give people the impression that the company is left-leaning. This same company lobbies for low taxes (conservative position). The CEO under whom the company culture was established is a Republican.

I think this is generally how it works. "Socially liberal" politics are good for recruitment. "Fiscally conservative" politics are an outcome of how corporations are structured and regulated.

TheDrake

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Re: liberal tech companies
« Reply #28 on: April 15, 2019, 03:46:16 PM »
That's a good point. I'm generally talking about social views, and not other points. Naturally CEOs are going to be globalists and anti-regulation. Something closer to Libertarian than the Democrat variety of liberal. You probably don't see a lot of tech entrepreneurs in the Sanders/Ocasio-Cortez mold either, even fewer than any kind of conservative.

scifibum

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Re: liberal tech companies
« Reply #29 on: April 15, 2019, 05:45:15 PM »
Quote
You probably don't see a lot of tech entrepreneurs in the Sanders/Ocasio-Cortez mold either,

"Social entrepreneurship" is definitely a thing, but these aren't the big money type of ideas by definition.

Crunch

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Re: liberal tech companies
« Reply #30 on: April 15, 2019, 07:31:44 PM »
I have worked for many tech companies, including during the dot com boom, as an employee or as a consultant, many global 1000 companies. . Ive worked for startups and companies with multi decade histories. Some have had liberal leadership, others conservative, it’s a pretty even mix despite claims in this thread. Not a single one I can think of was anything other than inclusive and open to anyone (although I’d argue that age discrimination has become a issue). Everyone knew equal opportunity employment laws, they adhered to the letter and spirit of the law.

It’s been the last few years that companies have become so political. Deplatforming, openly engaging in manipulation of free speech, forcing people of one political viewpoint to hide their views while simultaneously forcing them to support the ones they oppose or fear for their jobs.

At this point, I’ll never take another deal from Facebook, or Google. The risk of things going badly should they figure out I’m not a socialist is too high. Ive got plenty going on with companies that only want to succeed in business that I don’t need a woke company trying to silence me.

TheDeamon

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Re: liberal tech companies
« Reply #31 on: April 15, 2019, 09:47:25 PM »
That's a good point. I'm generally talking about social views, and not other points. Naturally CEOs are going to be globalists and anti-regulation. Something closer to Libertarian than the Democrat variety of liberal. You probably don't see a lot of tech entrepreneurs in the Sanders/Ocasio-Cortez mold either, even fewer than any kind of conservative.

Still generally puts them closer to the wheel-house of the Republicans than the "actual" Libertarians. Many Conservatives are actually very Libertarian on most social issues. Which gives them a lot of surface level overlap between Democrats and modern day (psudeo-)Liberalism.

But the reasons why a Social Libertarian holds a position are often very different from the reasons a Democrat/Liberal would hold one that gives the appearance of being the same.

Of course, "Social Libertarian" has another label that often works just as well. "Classical Liberal"