Author Topic: Trump's mental state  (Read 3027 times)

rightleft22

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Trump's mental state
« on: May 23, 2019, 01:57:57 PM »
Pelosi and others are hinting at a concern for Trump's mental state. Likely just another political ploy
Got me thinking how would we know if something was off? Trumps Communication style, I think makes it difficult.

What would be the signs if Trumps cognitive functions did start to go? Not trying to trap anyone here just curious. If Trump was your parent what behavior would cause you to be concerned? When would you take his keys away? Had to do that judgment for my mom, not fun.

TheDrake

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Re: Trump's mental state
« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2019, 02:10:04 PM »
You mean if he started confusing oranges with origins? Or if he forgot where his father was born?

We've certainly seen this sort of thing before with Ronald Reagan.

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The “highly innovative” methods used by the researchers may eventually help “to further clarify the extent to which spoken-word changes are associated with normal aging or predictive of subsequent progression to the clinical stages of Alzheimer’s disease,” said Dr. Eric Reiman, the director of the Banner Alzheimer’s Institute in Phoenix, who was not involved in the new study.

Visar Berisha and Julie Liss, professors of speech and hearing science at the university, compared transcripts of all 46 news conferences that Mr. Reagan held to the 101 sessions President George H. W. Bush held in his term.

The researchers assessed changes in the presidents’ speech patterns with a new algorithm based on a technique used by others to analyze changes in writing by novelists.

research

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The researchers found no changes in the speaking patterns of Mr. Bush, who is not known to have developed Alzheimer’s. But in Mr. Reagan’s speech, two measures — use of repetitive words, and substituting nonspecific terms like “thing” for specific nouns — increased toward the end of Mr. Reagan’s presidency, compared with its start. A third measure, his use of unique words, declined.

Uh oh.

D.W.

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Re: Trump's mental state
« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2019, 02:22:16 PM »
<insert scorpion and the frog parable>

I suppose the signs would be sudden calm reaction to criticism, a willingness to change his position after being offered expert advice, and a genuine interest in the job of being president.

Fenring

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Re: Trump's mental state
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2019, 02:56:21 PM »
I suppose the signs would be sudden calm reaction to criticism, a willingness to change his position after being offered expert advice, and a genuine interest in the job of being president.

I think that would be a sign of insanity in any President. In fact, would either party ever support such a person? Only a radical would alter their positions once they're set in - a radical anarchist that is.

rightleft22

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Re: Trump's mental state
« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2019, 04:46:23 PM »
I suppose the signs would be sudden calm reaction to criticism, a willingness to change his position after being offered expert advice, and a genuine interest in the job of being president.

I think that would be a sign of insanity in any President. In fact, would either party ever support such a person? Only a radical would alter their positions once they're set in - a radical anarchist that is.

Not sure I follow. Does a calm reaction to criticism and or openness to being wrong a sign of insanity. Are you arguing that a leader who changes their position based on new information/evidence would be seen as a radical anarchist and should not be followed?

In the new 'normal' with regards to leadership sanity - unwavering dogmatism and orthodoxy?

Or would it be a radical switch in behavior with regards to decision making that could suggest a change in mental state?
« Last Edit: May 23, 2019, 04:49:15 PM by rightleft22 »

Crunch

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Re: Trump's mental state
« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2019, 05:38:05 PM »
Pelosi and others are hinting at a concern for Trump's mental state. Likely just another political ploy
Got me thinking how would we know if something was off? Trumps Communication style, I think makes it difficult.


If he wins re-election in 2020, that will be rock solid proof he's insane and should be immediately impeached.   ::)

You guys were really counting on that Mueller report, weren't you? Going back to the "Trump is mentally unfit" meme is so 2018.

rightleft22

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Re: Trump's mental state
« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2019, 05:47:12 PM »
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You guys were really counting on that Mueller report, weren't you? Going back to the "Trump is mentally unfit" meme is so 2018.

Honestly the question wasn't about that.  Trumps communication style can be difficult to parse however when you look at his words in context with his actions he's been pretty consistent.

Taking politics out of it and if you just listening to someone who communicates the way Trump does, the rambling, disjointed sentences, lost words, misused words... would you worry or coment on their mental state?

I've noticed a changing state within myself with regards to lost and misused words and it make me wonder.

Crunch

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Re: Trump's mental state
« Reply #7 on: May 23, 2019, 06:01:11 PM »
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You guys were really counting on that Mueller report, weren't you? Going back to the "Trump is mentally unfit" meme is so 2018.

Honestly the question wasn't about that.  Trumps communication style can be difficult to parse however when you look at his words in context with his actions he's been pretty consistent.

Taking politics out of it and if you just listening to someone who communicates the way Trump does, the rambling, disjointed sentences, lost words, misused words... would you worry or coment on their mental state?

I've noticed a changing state within myself with regards to lost and misused words and it make me wonder.



Have you seen Nancy Pelosi lately? She's clearly struggling. Nobody talks about it. She didn't use to talk like this.

That's the difference. Was there ever a time Trump didn't talk like this? It's just his style. It's irritating at times, sure, but he's been pretty consistently talking like this ever since I've seen him on the national stage. Nancy, now, she's obviously losing her mental acuity.

But Trump is the one you're concerned about. Tell me again how there's no politics in this.

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What would be the signs if Trumps cognitive functions did start to go?

When he starts acting as if Russian collusion is what stole the election from Hillary.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2019, 06:03:31 PM by Crunch »

TheDrake

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Re: Trump's mental state
« Reply #8 on: May 23, 2019, 06:07:44 PM »
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Now, the bad news. She’s done — she’s past done. Her ever-growing list of verbal blunders is far too long to catalog here, and the 77-year-old seems more and more out of touch with regular Americans (dubbing the recent tax cuts by President Trump — which amounts to thousands of dollars for many people — “crumbs” is just the latest example).

Washington Times. This is the best example of her loss of mental acuity that I could find, there aren't many.

Crunch

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Re: Trump's mental state
« Reply #9 on: May 23, 2019, 06:08:39 PM »
Then you didn't even really try.  Here's one example, took 3 seconds to find.

TheDrake

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Re: Trump's mental state
« Reply #10 on: May 23, 2019, 06:13:05 PM »
nancy pelosi mental acuity
nancy pelosi senile
nancy pelosi site:breitbart.com
nancy pelosi is losing it

Only turns up a handful of articles. Instead of criticizing my search skills, why don't you give me one of those easy to find articles?

Crunch

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Re: Trump's mental state
« Reply #11 on: May 23, 2019, 06:17:05 PM »
I literally just did. I can spoonfeed you another. Again, maybe 5 seconds to find.

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Something may seriously be wrong with House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi.

While making a “surprise” appearance at the NGLCC’s National Dinner Awards Gala, the Democrat Speaker-to-be suffered multiple face spasms and slurred her words during a brief 10-minute speech.

“The American people elected a Democratic majority,” Pelosi said, awkwardly motioning to the crowd for applause.

Within the first minute of her speech, Pelosi slurred almost every single word she said.

The video is actually quite difficult to watch.

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While trying to congratulate California Democrat Rep. Mark Takano for helping those efforts, Pelosi could hardly pronounce his name.

And when she was able to say his name, she repeatedly shouted it to the crowd and made weird motions with her hands.

“I just wanted to acknowledge the great work of Mark Takano,” she said, suffering a face spasm and staring into the camera.

Wayward Son

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Re: Trump's mental state
« Reply #12 on: May 23, 2019, 06:26:30 PM »
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Was there ever a time Trump didn't talk like this?

Yes, there was such a time, Crunch.  Trump didn't use to speak at a fourth-grade level.  Which either means he is losing it, or he simply believes his audiences at his rallies better relate to that level of speech.

Crunch

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Re: Trump's mental state
« Reply #13 on: May 23, 2019, 07:05:23 PM »
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Was there ever a time Trump didn't talk like this?

Yes, there was such a time, Crunch.  Trump didn't use to speak at a fourth-grade level.  Which either means he is losing it, or he simply believes his audiences at his rallies better relate to that level of speech.

Trump Derangement Syndrome.

TheDrake

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Re: Trump's mental state
« Reply #14 on: May 24, 2019, 06:46:53 AM »
It is so easy to build a video with jump cuts that makes someone look bad. So the answer is no, there is no article, just fifth grade level you tube channels. Her delivery is strange at that keynote speech, but she is certainly capable. Who knows, maybe she had a stroke or some dental work? She's still forming complete sentences in almost all of her interviews and speeches.

But if you're a big fan of videos, you should check out this one

Crunch

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Re: Trump's mental state
« Reply #15 on: May 24, 2019, 07:44:57 AM »
Stage IV TDS.

ScottF

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Re: Trump's mental state
« Reply #16 on: May 24, 2019, 09:58:43 AM »
It is so easy to build a video with jump cuts that makes someone look bad. So the answer is no, there is no article, just fifth grade level you tube channels. Her delivery is strange at that keynote speech, but she is certainly capable. Who knows, maybe she had a stroke or some dental work? She's still forming complete sentences in almost all of her interviews and speeches.

But if you're a big fan of videos, you should check out this one

I agree with you on how easy it is to mashup clips to make someone look stupid/incompetent. I personally don't think there is anything abnormal with Trump's mental state or Pelosi's.

This is mostly about the effects and symptoms of getting old. Pelosi will be *eighty* early next year, and we're probably seeing a very normal decline in cognitive and verbal dexterity. It's called being human and getting old. Trump is "only" 72 but who knows how age is affecting his speed and articulation? It affects everyone differently and at different stages but it's certainly not if but when your verbal/mental dexterity visibly degrades. I also think Nancy is dead in the water as Speaker, regardless of these potential symptoms. She's represents the dinasaur democrat past. It's only a matter of time before she's backstaged into obscurity as the new kids take over.

rightleft22

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Re: Trump's mental state
« Reply #17 on: May 24, 2019, 10:15:26 AM »
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Have you seen Nancy Pelosi lately? She's clearly struggling. Nobody talks about it. She didn't use to talk like this.

I had have paused to wonder about her, however your making this political. I sincerely wondering how you would notice when a person is starting to... mentally slip.
When it comes to how we judge our leaders mental state it ends in partisanship so I don't think we would notice. If I had a friend who acted talked like Trump I'd be worried. If my friend was Pelosi I might suggest its time to retire....  I do remember the moment I started to wonder about Ronald Reagan and GW Bush - that was after he left office and gave a really odd interview

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Yes, there was such a time, Crunch.  Trump didn't use to speak at a fourth-grade level.  Which either means he is losing it, or he simply believes his audiences at his rallies better relate to that level of speech.

Trump Derangement Syndrome.

You know TDS goes both ways - those who can acknowledge no good in Trump and those who can acknowledge no wrong :)

TheDeamon

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Re: Trump's mental state
« Reply #18 on: May 24, 2019, 12:27:21 PM »
I suppose the signs would be sudden calm reaction to criticism, a willingness to change his position after being offered expert advice, and a genuine interest in the job of being president.

I think that would be a sign of insanity in any President. In fact, would either party ever support such a person? Only a radical would alter their positions once they're set in - a radical anarchist that is.

Bill Clinton managed a rather impressive pivot during his term of office. Although he's probably the only modern president to do so and get away with it. Georger H.W. Bush was basically run out of office(c/o Ross Perot) because he changed his stance on "no new taxes."

Fenring

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Re: Trump's mental state
« Reply #19 on: May 24, 2019, 12:41:05 PM »
I suppose the signs would be sudden calm reaction to criticism, a willingness to change his position after being offered expert advice, and a genuine interest in the job of being president.

I think that would be a sign of insanity in any President. In fact, would either party ever support such a person? Only a radical would alter their positions once they're set in - a radical anarchist that is.

Bill Clinton managed a rather impressive pivot during his term of office. Although he's probably the only modern president to do so and get away with it. Georger H.W. Bush was basically run out of office(c/o Ross Perot) because he changed his stance on "no new taxes."

Just FYI, to you and rightleft, I was being sarcastic...

rightleft22

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Re: Trump's mental state
« Reply #20 on: May 24, 2019, 01:12:14 PM »
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Just FYI, to you and rightleft, I was being sarcastic...

though it did make me wonder if I was being honest with myself, if I preferred leaders that were dogmatic - believed what I believed and never waver
Or if I really want my leaders to be wise and open...
If I'm honest I'm not so sure, I mean of course Id say publicly wise and open and preferably a good orator that lets me to believe I can, we can, be better then our/my base self's even if that's a illusion. But dogmatic is easier, doesn't ask me to be better then I am and I'm tired.

Fenring

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Re: Trump's mental state
« Reply #21 on: May 24, 2019, 01:53:19 PM »
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Just FYI, to you and rightleft, I was being sarcastic...

though it did make me wonder if I was being honest with myself, if I preferred leaders that were dogmatic - believed what I believed and never waver
Or if I really want my leaders to be wise and open...
If I'm honest I'm not so sure, I mean of course Id say publicly wise and open and preferably a good orator that lets me to believe I can, we can, be better then our/my base self's even if that's a illusion. But dogmatic is easier, doesn't ask me to be better then I am and I'm tired.

We had a discussion previously about principled vs chameleon candidates, but it bears mentioning that this schema alone is insufficient. A principled (.e. dogmatic) politician can still be flexible on implementation and also on situational necessity. An anti-war candidate can still find a circumstance where they would indeed go to war, and a candidate that believes is social subsidy can still listen to advice that a given subsidy will make things worse rather than better. Flipping on how to implement or realise a given principle is something that should be present in any politician, but the trend is that the parties have monopolies on both the principle and the implementation, so that for a GOP candidate any kind of social subsidy will be the devil regardless of its functionality; indeed, they will invariably claim on principle that such policies do not work, and so the dogma and the function become confused with each other. All that's left then is dogma, which of course remains inflexible as well.

It also bears mentioning that even dogma can exist on various levels. For instance I can believe in peaceful co-existence with foreign countries, and yet have opinions about a particular foreign nation ranging from "leave them alone" to "they must be toppled". The an anti-war dogma can in fact exist side-by-side with a pro-war stance in a given circumstance. Or even more abstractly, putting aside my stance on peace vs war, I can believe that the primary goal in any situation is to prevent civilian deaths. However in implementing that sort of general 'greatest amount of lives saved' principle the actual calculus of how to achieve that might range from avoiding intervening to intervening with extreme prejudice, depending on how the numbers fall, and so a principle of this sort wouldn't immediately lie on any particular side of the war vs peace spectrum.

So it's important to define which principle is the one being espoused before wondering whether candidates should or shouldn't be altering their principles. If the principle is "corporate subsidies are good" then I would argue that this principle should be alterable based on facts in evidence. If the principle is "murder for money is bad" then I would hope that this remains ironclad.


Seriati

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Re: Trump's mental state
« Reply #22 on: May 24, 2019, 02:09:03 PM »
What's the difference between a dogmatic adherence to terrible positions, and a strong hero that won't back down from a fight that needs to be had?  Political party.

We don't want leaders to compromise on things we think are important.  Good lord, it's almost a requirement of faith on the left that there can be zero compromise on any number of topics.  Don't want to use an arbitrary gender pronoun - you should be fired.  Don't get me wrong, it's a problem on the right as well.  But there's no truth to the idea that anyone is calling for great compromisers, they want the other side to "compromise," not their own.

As to the question at hand, there's no way for us to know, in a world where the media has a bias.  They have hundreds to thousands of clips they don't use for every one they do use.  There is a zero percent chance they haven't selected the clips they use to sell the story.  If they want you to believe Trump is deranged, they'll cut every clip they can find to show it, if they don't want you to know Pelosi is Senile you'll never even know the clips showing it exist.

And it's no answer that "someone else" will release the clips.  Each news organization has it's own material that sometimes, but not always, overlaps.  CNN and MSNBC have more stuff on downstream Democratic candidates than Fox, cause Fox viewers don't care about them.  Even for someone like Pelosi, she's going to speak at events that the conservative media doesn't care about, or isn't even invited to attend.  Those with the most unique content can bury the most, or manipulate the most.

TheDrake

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Re: Trump's mental state
« Reply #23 on: May 24, 2019, 02:23:32 PM »
"Be Reasonable!", Tom shouted, his eyes bulging to an alarming extent.

Crunch

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Re: Trump's mental state
« Reply #24 on: May 24, 2019, 03:53:48 PM »
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Have you seen Nancy Pelosi lately? She's clearly struggling. Nobody talks about it. She didn't use to talk like this.

I had have paused to wonder about her, however your making this political.
Come on, this was always political. Let's not pretend it wasn't.


I sincerely wondering how you would notice when a person is starting to... mentally slip.
I seriously question their mental state when, after multiple investigations by dozens of investigators, people still insist on Russian collusion despite a complete lack of evidence. That's a mental problem.

When it comes to how we judge our leaders mental state it ends in partisanship so I don't think we would notice. If I had a friend who acted talked like Trump I'd be worried. If my friend was Pelosi I might suggest its time to retire....  I do remember the moment I started to wonder about Ronald Reagan and GW Bush - that was after he left office and gave a really odd interview
I have friends that talk all sorts of ways different than I do. Some are more absentminded, some are easily distracted and search for words, everyone has a different way and some are more noticeable than others. Sometimes, they seem like they're totally not getting the thread of conversation. But, they're not 100% "on" all the time where every single word they say is analyzed and used a "proof" of something. If they were, I think they'd be a little more calculating of their wording which would change their cadence and delivery. Does that mean they're losing it? No.


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Yes, there was such a time, Crunch.  Trump didn't use to speak at a fourth-grade level.  Which either means he is losing it, or he simply believes his audiences at his rallies better relate to that level of speech.

Trump Derangement Syndrome.

You know TDS goes both ways - those who can acknowledge no good in Trump and those who can acknowledge no wrong :)

Trump has lots of issues, he's not a very nice guy. Most Trump supporters are well aware of this, they just didn't need a choir boy for president. Characterize it however you want.

rightleft22

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Re: Trump's mental state
« Reply #25 on: May 24, 2019, 04:17:40 PM »
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Come on, this was always political. Let's not pretend it wasn't.

really it wasn't - though I made a mistake with the subject heading

Pelosi was implying Trump mental state was questionable and I thought it begged the question.. how would you know if their was a problem (assuming one didn't already think their was a problem)

I wonder about my sanity all the time

Have you notice that you tend towards over generalizations. Ie  Everyone on the left is exactly the same

Wayward Son

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Re: Trump's mental state
« Reply #26 on: May 24, 2019, 06:30:01 PM »
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Was there ever a time Trump didn't talk like this?

Yes, there was such a time, Crunch.  Trump didn't use to speak at a fourth-grade level.  Which either means he is losing it, or he simply believes his audiences at his rallies better relate to that level of speech.

Trump Derangement Syndrome.

You know, it might be easier to just close your eyes, put your fingers in your ears and scream "La-La-La-La" when you see some facts that you don't like, instead of blaming it on the bearer of bad news.  ;D

cherrypoptart

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Re: Trump's mental state
« Reply #27 on: May 25, 2019, 05:47:55 AM »
Trump's mental state is extremely strong and solid right now. If you talk to the people who developed the tests for examining mental states, they'd tell you that not only does Trump have an outstanding mental state but his mental state is actually far superior to the people who developed the tests for mental states. Trump's mental state is in the state of a gifted mentalist; he's at peek performance, never been better and in fact probably nobody has ever been better than Trump is right now. It's just amazing.

I'd be willing to bet if Trump did a 180 on some of his positions like came out as more pro-choice, suggested an amnesty for illegals and increasing legal immigration to 2 million people a year, opened up all empty non-reserved rooms in his hotels to the homeless, and went to war with Russia by sending the U.S. Army into Crimea to take it back for Ukraine proving he's not in Putin's pocket, Trump's mental state wouldn't be questioned by the left at all. All that would be proof that he's the sanest person in the world. Of course this is all political but it's gone further than that and it's also all personal. Maybe Trump made it personal, but there's no doubt that it's extremely personal now. People just hate the guy with a blinding red-hot vengeance and it colors every perception they have of him.

Crunch

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Re: Trump's mental state
« Reply #28 on: May 25, 2019, 08:21:23 AM »
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Come on, this was always political. Let's not pretend it wasn't.

really it wasn't - though I made a mistake with the subject heading

Pelosi was implying Trump mental state was questionable and I thought it begged the question.. how would you know if their was a problem (assuming one didn't already think their was a problem)

I wonder about my sanity all the time

Have you notice that you tend towards over generalizations. Ie  Everyone on the left is exactly the same

I frequently discuss specifics, often in detail. Perhaps you missed that

Crunch

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Re: Trump's mental state
« Reply #29 on: May 25, 2019, 08:21:55 AM »
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Was there ever a time Trump didn't talk like this?

Yes, there was such a time, Crunch.  Trump didn't use to speak at a fourth-grade level.  Which either means he is losing it, or he simply believes his audiences at his rallies better relate to that level of speech.

Trump Derangement Syndrome.

You know, it might be easier to just close your eyes, put your fingers in your ears and scream "La-La-La-La" when you see some facts that you don't like, instead of blaming it on the bearer of bad news.  ;D

Look who’s talking.

TheDrake

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Re: Trump's mental state
« Reply #30 on: May 25, 2019, 11:55:40 AM »
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Come on, this was always political. Let's not pretend it wasn't.

really it wasn't - though I made a mistake with the subject heading

Pelosi was implying Trump mental state was questionable and I thought it begged the question.. how would you know if their was a problem (assuming one didn't already think their was a problem)

I wonder about my sanity all the time

Have you notice that you tend towards over generalizations. Ie  Everyone on the left is exactly the same

I frequently discuss specifics, often in detail. Perhaps you missed that

Discussion implies listening to and addressing what anyone else has to say.

D.W.

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Re: Trump's mental state
« Reply #31 on: May 28, 2019, 10:51:19 AM »
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Or would it be a radical switch in behavior with regards to decision making that could suggest a change in mental state?
Was away for awhile.  This was indeed the joke I was attempting to make.  If his actions are typically outside the norm, a change in gear towards the norm would be the symptom.  Failed attempt at making a funny.

As to the Peolsi thing, was this based upon a trend, or the doctored video that was in the news to make her look bad?  (worse?)  :P

ScottF

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Re: Trump's mental state
« Reply #32 on: May 28, 2019, 11:28:22 AM »
I haven't really dug into it, but I've heard there was an original, undoctored video of Pelosi that was highly unflattering re: speech and processing. Then a doctored video was also released and that's been the source of any kind of rebuttal.

Fenring

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Re: Trump's mental state
« Reply #33 on: May 28, 2019, 12:09:41 PM »
I haven't really dug into it, but I've heard there was an original, undoctored video of Pelosi that was highly unflattering re: speech and processing. Then a doctored video was also released and that's been the source of any kind of rebuttal.

Aha! What do you call the inverse of a limited hangout, where a true but mediocre admission is muddied by an exaggerated and clearly false version of it? We need names for all these things. For clarity, I don't know about the veracity of the claim re: this video, but as a general tactic it's functionally sound.

ScottF

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Re: Trump's mental state
« Reply #34 on: May 28, 2019, 12:29:40 PM »
I haven't really dug into it, but I've heard there was an original, undoctored video of Pelosi that was highly unflattering re: speech and processing. Then a doctored video was also released and that's been the source of any kind of rebuttal.

Aha! What do you call the inverse of a limited hangout, where a true but mediocre admission is muddied by an exaggerated and clearly false version of it? We need names for all these things. For clarity, I don't know about the veracity of the claim re: this video, but as a general tactic it's functionally sound.

It's incredibly effective. Allows you to shut down something that may be fundamentally true by highlighting a demonstrably bad faith scenario. If you were devious, you'd actually create the bad example yourself.

Fenring

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Re: Trump's mental state
« Reply #35 on: May 28, 2019, 01:43:18 PM »
It's incredibly effective. Allows you to shut down something that may be fundamentally true by highlighting a demonstrably bad faith scenario. If you were devious, you'd actually create the bad example yourself.

Incidentally I think the flat-Earth society is a case of this sort, where a truly idiotic conspiracy theory (which has acquired some legitimate devotees over time...) is propped up to make all conspiracy theories look crazy.

TheDrake

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Re: Trump's mental state
« Reply #36 on: May 28, 2019, 02:58:40 PM »
about those Pelosi videos

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A three-minute clip of Pelosi speaking event with the Center for American Progress from Wednesday was uploaded on Facebook by a group called "Politics WatchDog" was viewed over 1.8 million times with nearly 40,000 shares. The video shows her frequently slurring her words and her voice sounding garbled. Copies of the clip had also been found on Twitter and YouTube, which the latter had removed.

According to a report from The Washington Post, experts believed the original video was slowed down to 75 percent from the original speed and that her pitch was also manipulated in order to present her under the influence.

Crunch

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Re: Trump's mental state
« Reply #37 on: May 28, 2019, 06:54:46 PM »
One was. There are many other completely valid examples of pelosi slurring her speech and forgetting what she was talking about. Many of them a year or more old.

rightleft22

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Re: Trump's mental state
« Reply #38 on: May 29, 2019, 10:22:27 AM »
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One was. There are many other completely valid examples of pelosi slurring her speech and forgetting what she was talking about. Many of them a year or more old.

But I thought one fake video or claim or whatever meant we had permission to ignore other examples.
I don't under stand the new rules

TheDrake

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Re: Trump's mental state
« Reply #39 on: May 29, 2019, 10:49:33 AM »
The fake video was specifically one of the two Crunch chose as examples. The other one was a mashup of jump cuts. I'm really not motivated to go find the original video to determine to what extent her actual performance was garbled or incoherent overall.

I'm not saying she may not have lost a step navigating an interview, but that you could probably perform the same exercise with McConnell and many others.

Crunch

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Re: Trump's mental state
« Reply #40 on: May 29, 2019, 03:50:30 PM »
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One was. There are many other completely valid examples of pelosi slurring her speech and forgetting what she was talking about. Many of them a year or more old.

But I thought one fake video or claim or whatever meant we had permission to ignore other examples.
I don't under stand the new rules

You can make up whatever rules you want. I suggest you simply Google up the examples and judge for yourself (it's not as hard as some people make out).

rightleft22

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Re: Trump's mental state
« Reply #41 on: May 29, 2019, 04:07:50 PM »
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You can make up whatever rules you want. I suggest you simply Google up the examples and judge for yourself (it's not as hard as some people make out).

Based on my observations of the various conversations on social media there is a rule: If you have 10 examples of something on one proves to be false you get to ignore the other 9

I don't need to view the videos. I'm not a fan of her and think shes out of touch

Crunch

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Re: Trump's mental state
« Reply #42 on: May 30, 2019, 07:50:22 AM »
Sure, if that’s a rule you like then go with it The left loves making up new rules for situational applications. No need to stop now.

cherrypoptart

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Re: Trump's mental state
« Reply #43 on: May 30, 2019, 08:46:36 AM »
The mental state of the anti-vaxxers is often called into question and Trump is at least mildly in that camp. Apparently he changed his mind a little bit and is calling for kids to get their measles shots nowadays but previously he had tweeted this:


"Donald J. Trump✔@realDonaldTrump

Healthy young child goes to doctor, gets pumped with massive shot of many vaccines, doesn't feel good and changes - AUTISM. Many such cases! 19.4K 7:35 AM - Mar 28, 2014"

So take that or leave it as regards to his mental state, but what prompted me to bring it up is the modern rule that one fake thing means that all other examples of the thing are fake too whether it's Pelosi and her speech or it's the Wakefield vaccine study which because it was fake absolutely proves that vaccines are completely safe. You try to say that a fake study wouldn't prove anything either way but you're shouted down and told that it absolutely proves the opposite of whatever the fake thing attested. I've seen that in play all the time where if you bring up the possibility that some relatively small number of children may have adverse reactions to vaccines you are immediately shutdown and the proof that you are wrong is the Wakefield study.

So long story short... Verified.

TheDrake

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Re: Trump's mental state
« Reply #44 on: May 30, 2019, 08:48:35 AM »
The parallel here would be someone citing that study to begin the discussion.

cherrypoptart

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Re: Trump's mental state
« Reply #45 on: May 30, 2019, 08:56:49 AM »
Now any time someone brings up Pelosi and her slurred speech and verbal mistakes and weird gesticulations they will be shutdown because it was proven "that" video was fake even if there are nine more that are real if not quite so extreme.

Crunch

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Re: Trump's mental state
« Reply #46 on: May 30, 2019, 09:37:43 AM »
Who published that one video? Anybody know?

rightleft22

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Re: Trump's mental state
« Reply #47 on: May 30, 2019, 12:22:00 PM »
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Sure, if that’s a rule you like then go with it The left loves making up new rules for situational applications. No need to stop now.

My observations is the rule is being applied by both the right and left - just because people are applying the rule doesn't make it a good one
Its a new world - fair play, honesty and integrity no longer matter when it comes to getting what you want

TheDrake

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Re: Trump's mental state
« Reply #48 on: May 30, 2019, 12:59:23 PM »
Who published that one video? Anybody know?

original report with both videos

Original posting was on a facebook page, Politics WatchDog. From there it spread to multiple other platforms and accounts.

This is the other version, the selective cut:

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On Thursday night, Trump tweeted a separate video of Pelosi — a selectively edited supercut, taken from Fox News, focused on moments where she briefly paused or stumbled — that he claimed showed her stammering through a news conference. The clip included roughly 30 seconds of Pelosi’s full 21-minute briefing on Thursday, in which she took questions from reporters and discussed what she called Trump’s “temper tantrum.”

And then another manipulation:

Quote
Pelosi’s voice was distorted in a separate YouTube video, posted earlier this month by a conservative channel with more than 28 million total views. That video slowed a speech Pelosi had given to the American Road & Transportation Builders Association to make her words sound notably slurred. That video appeared to be a version of another video with roughly 200,000 views, in which a man laughed over of a spliced montage of her speech. The original audio shows no such distortion.

Starting to pile up, aren't they? And some people wonder why I don't look at videos for political purposes. It's only going to get worse as deepfake technology becomes widespread.

D.W.

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Re: Trump's mental state
« Reply #49 on: May 30, 2019, 01:37:34 PM »
Yep, we've moved past, "don't believe everything you read" to "you can't believe what you hear or see either..."

Soon (if not already) people will just decide on their own facts and just assume anything that doesn't support them must be fake!  How could you "prove" they aren't? 

Maybe we'll see a resurgence of the news room where we put a much higher value on investigators and researchers and public trust, instead of speed and volume and partisanship...

I expect it will get far FAR worse before we start come to grips with the problem and devise a workable solution.