Author Topic: Drag Kids  (Read 1729 times)

Crunch

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Drag Kids
« on: June 10, 2019, 08:27:21 AM »
Anyone seen this?

There’s a lot developing around so called “drag kids” (Google will give you much more information). Essentially they dress up young boys in sexy outfits with makeup and the works, including one in a transparent dress, where they perform for adults. In another incident, the of drag kids, Desmond is Amazing, gets all sexed up and dances while grown men shower him with tips.

These kids are used as LGBTQ activists. You know, lots of 10 and 12 your olds are focused on that. Many of these kids start dressing in drag as early as 5 or 6, Desmond started at 2.

Look, this is child abuse. It’s sickening. CPS should be called in and these kids removed to a safe place.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2019, 08:30:22 AM by Crunch »

TheDrake

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Re: Drag Kids
« Reply #1 on: June 10, 2019, 09:12:13 AM »
This is one facet of a disturbing sexualization of children that includes beauty pageants and dance recitals.

Crunch

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Re: Drag Kids
« Reply #2 on: June 10, 2019, 09:33:34 AM »
Dance recitals? I went to a dance recital for my niece a few years ago - she was doing ballet and it was only family members of the kids performing that attended. I think there's a huge difference between that and dressing young boys up in sexy clothes to dance for strangers and tips. Do you not?

Crunch

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Re: Drag Kids
« Reply #3 on: June 10, 2019, 09:52:46 AM »
Another facet of this was Snapchat's "Love has no age" filter that was released this month. It was pulled once conservative twitter erupted but how did it get out there to begin with?

TheDrake

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Re: Drag Kids
« Reply #4 on: June 10, 2019, 11:49:03 AM »
For dance recitals, I'm not speaking of every single one of them. I'm not going to google for them, but I'll bet you can find video of prepubescent girls twerking in an organized demonstration. I know I've seen routines with middle schoolers performing at sporting events that felt inappropriate to me.

I don't see any difference between dressing a girl up in makeup and a dress and doing the same with a boy. But that's because I've accepted that kids know if they are gay at a young age, and that parents should be supportive of that choice.

rightleft22

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Re: Drag Kids
« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2019, 04:16:53 PM »
Quote
But that's because I've accepted that kids know if they are gay at a young age

I've often wondered about that. When I think back the concept of questioning gender and sexual preference never occurred to me. Not fully consciously anyway.
True one of the worst things you could be call back then was gay or homo however I didn't fully understand what the meant until well into my teens, and even then.
Perhaps if I did feel a attraction to the same sex I would have been more conscious of the question. 

In hindsight its difficult to imagine I knew anything at that age, even though as a teenager I thought I knew it all.

Crunch

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Re: Drag Kids
« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2019, 04:23:17 PM »
I would suggest that before you were 10 years old you probably weren't attracted to girls either. Most boys want nothing to do with girls until they approach, or even enter, their teen years. Pushing the idea that elementary school age children are aware of sexuality is more of a NAMBLA argument than anything else.

rightleft22

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Re: Drag Kids
« Reply #7 on: June 10, 2019, 04:42:29 PM »
Not aware of any NAMBLA arguments however I can imagine.
Before puberty what did I know of sexuality.... that it was 'a something' to be ashamed of, however that would have been more subconscious then knowing
I grew up in a religious environment at a time it wasn't something you talked about let alone questioned.

TheDrake

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Re: Drag Kids
« Reply #8 on: June 10, 2019, 06:08:57 PM »
I've often wondered about that. When I think back the concept of questioning gender and sexual preference never occurred to me. Not fully consciously anyway.
True one of the worst things you could be call back then was gay or homo however I didn't fully understand what the meant until well into my teens, and even then.
Perhaps if I did feel a attraction to the same sex I would have been more conscious of the question. 

Kids wind up having "crushes" about 5th or 6th grade. That's 11 or 12, and usually when gay adults report knowing they are different. Some them didn't find out how they were different until later. Puberty lands in or around this area. Would they know if they are 5 or 6? Maybe. I know gender roles are socialized almost as soon as kids start wearing clothes, which can start with pink and blue jumpers. Race car bed versus princess bed. Luckily clothing styles are becoming more neutral - little girls are less likely to be made fun of for lack of femininity. Little boys however are going to get quite the reaction if they want to wear a skirt.

LetterRip

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Re: Drag Kids
« Reply #9 on: June 11, 2019, 01:03:45 PM »
I would suggest that before you were 10 years old you probably weren't attracted to girls either. Most boys want nothing to do with girls until they approach, or even enter, their teen years.

Sexual attraction onset starts with puberty - and puberty onset has large variability,

Quote
For girls, puberty is generally considered to be too early if it begins at age seven or eight. African-American and Hispanic girls tend to start puberty slightly earlier than Caucasian girls. The average age of pubertal onset in girls is 10-and-a-half years old, but it ranges from seven to 13 years old. [...] For boys, puberty is generally considered too early before the age of nine years.  In boys, onset of puberty is from nine to 14 years, but on average starts at 11-and-a-half to 12 years old.

https://www.dukehealth.org/blog/when-puberty-too-early

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Cognitive markers of sexual desire emerge during early puberty, including identifiable sexual thoughts and sexual attractions. About 25% of young adults report “thinking a lot about sex” as 11–12 year olds (both boys and girls) (Larsson & Svedin, 2002). Based on reports of fourth- and fifth grade (ages 9–11 years) American boys and girls, 16% reported self-relevant sexual thoughts (Butler, Miller, Holtgrave, Forehand, & Long, 2006). In a sample of Spanish boys and girls, about 6% of 9–10 year old boys reported sexual fantasies, increasing to 66% among 13–14 year olds. Among girls, 15% of 13–14 year olds reported fantasies, with none reported by 9–10 and 11–12 year olds (Arnal & Llario, 2006).

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3761219/

So about 15% of 10 year olds are having sexual fantasies - 15 out of a 100 students is a fairly significant number.  Reality doesn't care about our squeamishness.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2019, 01:06:12 PM by LetterRip »

Seriati

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Re: Drag Kids
« Reply #10 on: June 12, 2019, 11:54:56 AM »
For dance recitals, I'm not speaking of every single one of them. I'm not going to google for them, but I'll bet you can find video of prepubescent girls twerking in an organized demonstration. I know I've seen routines with middle schoolers performing at sporting events that felt inappropriate to me.

You certainly can, and you can find specific criticism of those events almost anywhere you look.  You can also find big changes in many of them over time (school uniforms for example have trended towards less revealing).  What you'd almost never find is say, grown men showering little girls with tips.  Just about everyone would instantly understand how inappropriate that is, if that's what happening in the drag shows it's over the line.

Otherwise I have no more problem with a kids drag show than I have with an equivalent pageant or dance routine.  If any of them are sexualized they are inappropriate, if they are not, to each their own.

As far as the age thing goes, it definitely varies, some of the kids' friends had crushes at 8-9, others didn't until 13-14.  A lot of coming out events in middle school.

Crunch

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Re: Drag Kids
« Reply #11 on: June 19, 2019, 07:36:23 AM »
Is there any purpose for dressing a child up as a seductively clad woman and having him perform that is not sexualized?

I suggest that the crush an 8 year old has is far different than that of a 14 year old.


TheDrake

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Re: Drag Kids
« Reply #12 on: June 19, 2019, 11:33:59 AM »
Is there any purpose for dressing a child up as a seductively clad woman and having him perform that is not sexualized?

I suggest that the crush an 8 year old has is far different than that of a 14 year old.

If you replace him with her, does it become acceptable? Your outrage seems very specific about drag.

D.W.

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Re: Drag Kids
« Reply #13 on: June 19, 2019, 12:45:52 PM »
While there is a chance Crunch is miss-characterizing this story, the contortions and deflections and equivalencies thrown around are bizarre. 

TheDrake

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Re: Drag Kids
« Reply #14 on: June 19, 2019, 01:38:22 PM »
What contortion?

D.W.

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Re: Drag Kids
« Reply #15 on: June 19, 2019, 01:49:11 PM »
It's* messed up.  It doesn't need to be graded on a sliding scale.  It's not bigoted against anyone to call it out.  It certainly doesn't matter when/if the child starts having crushes on anyone. 

*the situation described by Crunch

The impulse to call out Crunch for somehow being in the wrong for focusing on this instead of the countless other exploitative behavior adults push on kids.   ::)

Score one point for Crunch.  He's got his audience here pegged.


NobleHunter

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Re: Drag Kids
« Reply #16 on: June 19, 2019, 01:51:59 PM »
Or the audience has him pegged. I mean, if Crunch is bringing this up in good faith then there's not really much to discuss.

D.W.

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Re: Drag Kids
« Reply #17 on: June 19, 2019, 02:06:11 PM »
I try not to make judgments about Crunch's faith.   :P

If others wana play in front of the fun-house mirrors he sets up, knock yourselves out.

TheDrake

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Re: Drag Kids
« Reply #18 on: June 19, 2019, 03:17:20 PM »
I think the whole discussion was largely productive, centering on what is age appropriate. The only thing I did was try to get an acknowledgement that it would be just as wrong if it were not cross-dressing.

Why is this? Because Crunch went well out of his way to call out LGBTQ activists. And equating this with child abuse, suggesting that the kids are being forced against their will to parade around.

If you check out the right-wing blogosphere, you'll find lots of outrage about this because people are celebrating diversity which gets the folks who think being gay is sinful really worked up. Like an article titled Letting an 8-year-old be a drag queen isn't progressive, it's child abuse from the Washington Examiner.

Quote
Drag kids — kids dressed in full garb of their biologically opposite gender — are now joining the scene with transgender kids.
...
At first glance, Desmond and Queen Lactatia seem almost cartoonish and fabricated, but a closer look proves these are young children, ten and eight, respectively, born male who not only dress in drag (and look like females) but are advertising for companies.
...
What concerned onlookers likely mean, is that children who are encouraged to embrace their opposite gender, or who are encouraged to dress in drag when they are not sexually developed or even coherent about sexuality, may grow up to be profoundly confused about their sexuality and gender.

The author seems terrified that kids might grow up thinking that being transgender is okay and normal.

Other articles about drag in the same publication lead to the following comments:

Quote
People who support LGBTQ rights or who embody that lifestyle on a daily basis are certainly human beings with rights and desires just like everyone else. But there's little psychology or science to support it being healthy or normal or something children who can't cross streets by themselves should have to grapple with during reading hour. Imagine the questions: Is he a boy? Is he a girl? Why is a boy wearing a dress?

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I sent this letter to the Ohio Library Council today. Our public libraries are great resources for young & old alike. But they should not be a resource for teenage boys to learn how to dress in drag. I demand it stop now !!! pic.twitter.com/RpM8Wds1KB

— Speaker Larry Householder (@HouseholderOH) May 31, 2019

One has to wonder if Larry would be that upset if they were teaching girls to dress up.

D.W.

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Re: Drag Kids
« Reply #19 on: June 19, 2019, 03:32:52 PM »
Quote
Why is this? Because Crunch went well out of his way to call out LGBTQ activists. And equating this with child abuse, suggesting that the kids are being forced against their will to parade around.
He said they were being "used".  Not forced. 

More fun-house mirrors.

I don't disagree with your motive speculation,  ::) (is that allowed?  I forget...)  but, at least take issue with what he actually said, THEN go on the offensive.  :P

Crunch

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Re: Drag Kids
« Reply #20 on: June 19, 2019, 06:18:02 PM »
Or the audience has him pegged. I mean, if Crunch is bringing this up in good faith then there's not really much to discuss.

But there is. Watch carefully who tries to put some level of acceptability for dressing children up in provocative outfits to dance for grown men and be showered with tips. Who’s saying this is wrong and who’s trying to deflect and protect it? You learn a lot about people seeing that.

Fenring

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Re: Drag Kids
« Reply #21 on: June 19, 2019, 09:02:51 PM »
The author seems terrified that kids might grow up thinking that being transgender is okay and normal.

The funhouse mirrors also seemingly involve placing "okay" and "normal" side by side, making it seem like "okay and normal" is one descriptor. However being transgender is not normal. A thing can be okay and not normal, if by "normal" we're going to use it in its most common-sense usage, meaning the common (or regularized) way people expect to be constituted. People are not "normally" transgender, although *if* it's biological, and *if* it's a completely natural phenomenon like having brown hair, then it would be normal in the sense that we'd expect a certain small percentage of the populace to be trans. But it's not normal in the sense that most people should be wondering if they're trans, or 'trying it out'. It's not something to try out, and likewise not something that very young kids should be encouraged to think is cool, like a fad, which they can 'experiment with' at very young and formative ages. I really don't think we know enough about how the brain works (i.e. very little) to haphazardly meddle with social formation to the point where young boys in drag receiving tips is a healthy activity. While motive speculation about Crunch's intentions was somewhat predictable, it's also possible to take a slightly ill-conceived complaint of his and find a better way to formulate on his behalf, rather than try to defeat him on principle. I mean, at least an an exercise.


TheDeamon

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Re: Drag Kids
« Reply #22 on: June 19, 2019, 09:11:06 PM »
Is there any purpose for dressing a child up as a seductively clad woman and having him perform that is not sexualized?

I suggest that the crush an 8 year old has is far different than that of a 14 year old.

If you replace him with her, does it become acceptable? Your outrage seems very specific about drag.

While there is a chance Crunch is miss-characterizing this story, the contortions and deflections and equivalencies thrown around are bizarre. 

I'm inclined to suspect that Crunch is likely to also be bothered by the 8 year old beauty pageants and what-not many parents put their daughters through as well. That said, society doesn't have very dim view of them as of yet, so tilting against them is rather pointless.

Doesn't mean that he can't call out efforts to expand on that bad precedent.

DJQuag

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Re: Drag Kids
« Reply #23 on: June 19, 2019, 09:30:40 PM »
Is there any purpose for dressing a child up as a seductively clad woman and having him perform that is not sexualized?

I suggest that the crush an 8 year old has is far different than that of a 14 year old.

If you replace him with her, does it become acceptable? Your outrage seems very specific about drag.

While there is a chance Crunch is miss-characterizing this story, the contortions and deflections and equivalencies thrown around are bizarre. 

I'm inclined to suspect that Crunch is likely to also be bothered by the 8 year old beauty pageants and what-not many parents put their daughters through as well. That said, society doesn't have very dim view of them as of yet, so tilting against them is rather pointless.

Doesn't mean that he can't call out efforts to expand on that bad precedent.

His focus on the very small proportion of questionable drag/trans child "beauty" shows, when compared to "normal" sexualization of pre teen girls, does say something.

Maybe Crunch doesn't like beauty pageants when they only involve young XX participants. I wouldn't know because he's not hysterically screeched about it. What I do know is that there are literally a handful of XY participants taking part in a disgusting practice and *now* he starts foaming at the mouth.

Fenring

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Re: Drag Kids
« Reply #24 on: June 20, 2019, 12:58:16 AM »
His focus on the very small proportion of questionable drag/trans child "beauty" shows, when compared to "normal" sexualization of pre teen girls, does say something.

Yes it does say something: that certain portions of the public are likely to actually celebrate this new phenomenon, and that certain people would like to nip that in the bud if possible. And while the general public doesn't yet have significant hatred of pre-teen girl beauty pageants, they also have no love for it for the most part. I suspect that many people are leery of it even while sort of trying to pretend it's cute (which it isn't). For the most part the average person probably doesn't even notice they're going on, and so it isn't on their radar. But the problem with 'hip' movements (to give them an uncharitable spin) is that people will stop at almost nothing to promote those moments, even using examples they shouldn't. The fear that the other side will win is so great, and the need to push the cause-du-jour so intense, that any and every example of life that seems to fit or further that cause will be promoted on social media and in the press. It doesn't at all seem improbable to me that something that ordinarily would yield either sighs or else indifference, like a child pageant or sexualized performance, would in this case be trumpeted as a sign of progress, and that is indeed a good reason to speak out about it.

TheDrake

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Re: Drag Kids
« Reply #25 on: June 20, 2019, 12:25:55 PM »
Quote
And while the general public doesn't yet have significant hatred of pre-teen girl beauty pageants, they also have no love for it for the most part.

They loved it enough to have a TV series about it for seven years. Toddlers and Tiaras. On The Learning Channel.

I need to also add that there was some significant backlash against the show for stuff like this:

Quote
In what was likely a misguided effort to gin up publicity and ratings for the show, TLC released footage of a 3-year-old contestant dressed as the prostitute played by Julia Roberts in the 1990 film "Pretty Woman." This stupidity came just one week after TLC -- still known to many as The Learning Channel -- was forced to pull its Facebook page because of the deluge of negative comments over an episode that featured a little girl dressed up to look like Dolly Parton, complete with padded bust and buttocks.

Just not approaching the same level. But that could just be a function of it coming before the age of internet whiplash that we currently enjoy.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2019, 12:31:32 PM by TheDrake »

TheDeamon

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Re: Drag Kids
« Reply #26 on: June 20, 2019, 01:37:16 PM »
Quote
And while the general public doesn't yet have significant hatred of pre-teen girl beauty pageants, they also have no love for it for the most part.

They loved it enough to have a TV series about it for seven years. Toddlers and Tiaras. On The Learning Channel.

I need to also add that there was some significant backlash against the show for stuff like this:

Quote
In what was likely a misguided effort to gin up publicity and ratings for the show, TLC released footage of a 3-year-old contestant dressed as the prostitute played by Julia Roberts in the 1990 film "Pretty Woman." This stupidity came just one week after TLC -- still known to many as The Learning Channel -- was forced to pull its Facebook page because of the deluge of negative comments over an episode that featured a little girl dressed up to look like Dolly Parton, complete with padded bust and buttocks.

Just not approaching the same level. But that could just be a function of it coming before the age of internet whiplash that we currently enjoy.

I don't think this event even registered on my own radar, it may or may not be the first time I've even heard about this even having happened. It's possible I heard about it before and simply shook my head and moved on with my life, as much negative feedback had already been received by TLC over the matter.

scifibum

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Re: Drag Kids
« Reply #27 on: June 20, 2019, 02:40:44 PM »
Or the audience has him pegged. I mean, if Crunch is bringing this up in good faith then there's not really much to discuss.

But there is. Watch carefully who tries to put some level of acceptability for dressing children up in provocative outfits to dance for grown men and be showered with tips. Who’s saying this is wrong and who’s trying to deflect and protect it? You learn a lot about people seeing that.

If you're talking about HERE, nobody is saying it's OK for children to dress up provocatively and be showered with tips for dancing.

But I do see that you tried to equate any kids in drag to that in the OP, and you are here implying something about people who aren't willing to get exercised about kids in drag as a general concept.

I don't know who you think you're fooling...

Seriati

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Re: Drag Kids
« Reply #28 on: June 20, 2019, 03:19:29 PM »
I'm not sure I get the negativity here, whatever you think about Toddlers and Tiaras, it was like other shows of its Ilk about Hollywood moms pushing children in ways that the rest of the country finds troubling but not illegal.  I don't believe that any of those shows would have the kids stage a dance for men throwing tip money at them.  If they did, CPS would be called for sure, the mom's would end up in jail and people would try to bring charges against the men, the venues, the shows and the networks.

Frankly, I'm not aware that there is ANY legitimate claim to the idea of a reciprocal situation.  It's a no brainer.

I do take away that there is all kinds of pressure on young girls and their clothing options.  I have a daughter and it's hard for her to find clothes she's comfortable wearing.  For all their "woke" credentials, Hollywood and the Media (through advertisements, magazines and who they promote) undermine at every turn any ability of a girl to be modest (well other than if she wants (is forced by her parents) to wear a Hijab, in which case they are all over supporting it).  But that's neither here nor there, while I'll let her wear the clothes of the day (if she wants to do so), I'd never let her perform on a stage in revealing clothes while grown men throw money at her.

TheDrake

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Re: Drag Kids
« Reply #29 on: June 20, 2019, 04:04:40 PM »
That was one kid, and by the way, CPS in New York cleared this of wrong doing. Although I clearly don't condone the idea, and I think it is very bad parenting.

Is it the tip money part that makes it different? Because dressing your kid up as a prostitute and getting on stage for prize money doesn't seem so different to me. Is it better when the money is in an envelope?

Seriati

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Re: Drag Kids
« Reply #30 on: June 20, 2019, 04:07:36 PM »
The difference to me is the sexualization, performing for a bunch of mom's who are trying to out compete each other through the proxies of their children is wrong, but in a completely different way, than performing for strange men for money.

I mean to me, it would be a no brainer if you were talking about little girls dancing for strange men throwing money at them, how can it not be a no brainer just cause its boys in drag?

Pete at Home

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Re: Drag Kids
« Reply #31 on: July 01, 2019, 10:05:58 PM »
For dance recitals, I'm not speaking of every single one of them. I'm not going to google for them, but I'll bet you can find video of prepubescent girls twerking in an organized demonstration. I know I've seen routines with middle schoolers performing at sporting events that felt inappropriate to me.

I don't see any difference between dressing a girl up in makeup and a dress and doing the same with a boy. But that's because I've accepted that kids know if they are gay at a young age, and that parents should be supportive of that choice.

The difference is that twerking tweens seek attention and have the support of an obsolete cultural inertia, but the facts Crunch has presented here (give the devil his due; he actually made a fact based argument here) show a loathsome adult organized promotion effort that’s decades old.  Leftist pseudo social scientists tried this last time in the 1990s and they whined about it when they got caught.

Don’t fall into his trap by minimizing this as affirmative atrocity.  Yes, the folks airing this are all outrage, all the time, but even a broken clock is right twice a day.  This is outrageous and someone should burn for it.

Pete at Home

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Re: Drag Kids
« Reply #32 on: July 01, 2019, 10:13:58 PM »
That was one kid, and by the way, CPS in New York cleared this of wrong doing. Although I clearly don't condone the idea, and I think it is very bad parenting.

Is it the tip money part that makes it different? Because dressing your kid up as a prostitute and getting on stage for prize money doesn't seem so different to me. Is it better when the money is in an envelope?
How about the 10 YEAR OLD DANCING IN A STRIP BAR part of it?

Come on, Drake. If it were a 10 year old girl dancing for Donald Trump you’d be screaming child abuse.

It’s not “just one kid” when New York State rubber stamps it as not abusive.  It’s illegal to have a 10 year old performing erotic dancing in a bar.

Please don’t worshipfully reference the New York State authority to say it’s not child abuse.
Liberalism dies when leftists stop questioning authority.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2019, 10:20:44 PM by Pete at Home »

TheDrake

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Re: Drag Kids
« Reply #33 on: July 02, 2019, 09:47:12 AM »
#1, not a strip bar. It's a gay club that has a stage. Did you watch the video? There's nothing particularly suggestive or erotic about the dance. She's not looking between her legs, or rolling on the floor. There isn't very revealing clothing. In many ways far less suggestive than the other "performances" that I referenced. The only thing that makes it remotely close to stripping is the throwing of tips. Not tucking tips into a waistband, like would happen in most strip clubs.

#2, I don't fully condone it. I think like many child performers (musicians, actors, etc), Desmond is being exploited. I already stipulated it is bad parenting, but I don't see it rising to a level of abuse.

Pete at Home

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Re: Drag Kids
« Reply #34 on: July 02, 2019, 07:59:30 PM »
Waistband? You must have frequented one of those new Disney g-rated strip clubs.  8)

Thanks for clarifying. If I tangled the facts as to acts and venue, then your response is reasonable. Thanks for helping me understand your view.  Cancel Red alert; you are ramen and not varelse :)

« Last Edit: July 02, 2019, 08:07:24 PM by Pete at Home »

Pete at Home

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Re: Drag Kids
« Reply #35 on: July 02, 2019, 08:25:39 PM »
For what it’s worth, Crunch, I think the practice you describe is deplorable and probably harmful, but less so than, say, the former practice of castrating talented choirboys. Agreed?

Crunch

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Re: Drag Kids
« Reply #36 on: July 03, 2019, 12:37:06 PM »
So let’s see...

It’s not so bad. Just kids on a stage dancing for adults that throw money at them as tips but not doing the traditional tuck of waistband.  The clothing wasn’t too revealing nor the dance moves overly sexual. Why, it’s roughly on par with Disney movies! 

Great. That kind of tepid defense is pretty nauseating.

Then we get to comparing them against the castrati of about 200 years ago so we know it’s just not so bad.

Lately I’ve been really surprised at what a few of you will go along with.

D.W.

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Re: Drag Kids
« Reply #37 on: July 03, 2019, 12:46:31 PM »
I can't figure out if it's a genuine attempt to be open to all possible life choices, even those they disagree with, or some are just thrilled to support anything that makes the more conservative types uncomfortable or makes them rage...

Surprises indeed.

Crunch

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Re: Drag Kids
« Reply #38 on: July 03, 2019, 01:47:04 PM »
Or the audience has him pegged. I mean, if Crunch is bringing this up in good faith then there's not really much to discuss.

But there is. Watch carefully who tries to put some level of acceptability for dressing children up in provocative outfits to dance for grown men and be showered with tips. Who’s saying this is wrong and who’s trying to deflect and protect it? You learn a lot about people seeing that.

If you're talking about HERE, nobody is saying it's OK for children to dress up provocatively and be showered with tips for dancing.

That aged well.


scifibum

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Re: Drag Kids
« Reply #39 on: July 08, 2019, 01:33:11 PM »
Yeah, it did. Nobody here is saying it's OK for kids to dress or dance provocatively for tips.

The closest anyone came to that is saying bad parenting, but not abuse.  "Bad parenting" equates to saying it's not okay.

Not even sure why you're attempting this.

Pete at Home

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Re: Drag Kids
« Reply #40 on: July 17, 2019, 09:23:36 AM »
So let’s see...

It’s not so bad. Just kids on a stage dancing for adults that throw money at them as tips but not doing the traditional tuck of waistband.  ! 

.

Then we get to comparing them against the castrati of about 200 years ago so we know it’s just not so bad.

Lately I’ve been really surprised at what a few of you will go along with.

Let’s get this right .... in your crunchy little moral world, putting anything into perspective means going along with it?  If I say that you are less annoying than your G2 incarnation then am I “going along with” you?