Author Topic: What about Bernie?  (Read 713 times)

wmLambert

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What about Bernie?
« on: April 09, 2020, 07:11:17 PM »
Now that Bernie ended his candidacy, did anyone notice he did not ask his supporters to adopt Biden, nor pull himself out of upcoming ballots? He is keeping the money raised, so maybe he can buy another four houses.

The speeches all focus on issues he will continue to push. In effect, which means he is supporting AOC for future nomination. Many believe he never wanted to win the Presidency. He didn't when he ran against Hillary, refusing to bring up her eMails or Foundation scandals. This time around, he gave Biden a pass on The Ukraine and his gaffes. How can you believe someone wants something if he keeps back in the shadows? The fight in the DNC now will be who runs the party. The Elites or the Greens.

TheDeamon

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Re: What about Bernie?
« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2020, 07:30:07 PM »
The speeches all focus on issues he will continue to push. In effect, which means he is supporting AOC for future nomination. Many believe he never wanted to win the Presidency. He didn't when he ran against Hillary, refusing to bring up her eMails or Foundation scandals. This time around, he gave Biden a pass on The Ukraine and his gaffes. How can you believe someone wants something if he keeps back in the shadows? The fight in the DNC now will be who runs the party. The Elites or the Greens.

AOC is 30 years old. As per the Constitution, she doesn't meet the 36 years old requirement to run for either the Presidency or the Vice Presidency. She won't "be legal" for that until 2028.

Fenring

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Re: What about Bernie?
« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2020, 02:03:37 PM »
Now that Bernie ended his candidacy, did anyone notice he did not ask his supporters to adopt Biden, nor pull himself out of upcoming ballots? He is keeping the money raised, so maybe he can buy another four houses.

The speeches all focus on issues he will continue to push. In effect, which means he is supporting AOC for future nomination. Many believe he never wanted to win the Presidency. He didn't when he ran against Hillary, refusing to bring up her eMails or Foundation scandals. This time around, he gave Biden a pass on The Ukraine and his gaffes. How can you believe someone wants something if he keeps back in the shadows? The fight in the DNC now will be who runs the party. The Elites or the Greens.

I think you're a pretty poor judge of character.

wmLambert

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Re: What about Bernie?
« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2020, 02:48:45 PM »
Now that Bernie ended his candidacy, did anyone notice he did not ask his supporters to adopt Biden, nor pull himself out of upcoming ballots? He is keeping the money raised, so maybe he can buy another four houses.

The speeches all focus on issues he will continue to push. In effect, which means he is supporting AOC for future nomination. Many believe he never wanted to win the Presidency. He didn't when he ran against Hillary, refusing to bring up her eMails or Foundation scandals. This time around, he gave Biden a pass on The Ukraine and his gaffes. How can you believe someone wants something if he keeps back in the shadows? The fight in the DNC now will be who runs the party. The Elites or the Greens.

I think you're a pretty poor judge of character.

Explain yourself. Nothing I posted was factually incorrect, and what i repeated had been offered by many others, as well. Bernie is now a multimillionaire with no qualms at how he got all that money. Biden is a lost cause, and the DNC wants personal power, and not victory in November. Where is judging character coming in to play. Sure looks to me that you are personally involved with targeting posters you may not agree with.

The Democrat playbook at the moment is searching for an alternative to Russian Collusion or impeachment on illusory charges. Their past history of damaging the economy to create a crisis to exploit is unarguable. If the Coronavirus bell-curve happens on schedule, the economy should be back well before November. Bernie is gone from the equation, except to further hurt the DNC.

Seriati

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Re: What about Bernie?
« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2020, 02:59:52 PM »
I think you're a pretty poor judge of character.

Sure looks to me that you are personally involved with targeting posters you may not agree with.

Not needed guys.  You both make good points.

Seriati

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Re: What about Bernie?
« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2020, 04:03:17 PM »
Just to clarify what I quoted is not what I think are the good points.

Fenring

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Re: What about Bernie?
« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2020, 11:20:34 PM »
Explain yourself. Nothing I posted was factually incorrect[...]

Heh, you almost directly wrote that Bernie is absconding with donated monies in order to enrich himself, and that this is probably typical of him as he is clearly a "millionaire", which in turn most likely means that he has profiteered his way there like other crooked politicians. That you think these are "facts" even though you don't even directly state them but only imply them with weasel words (not an ad hominem, but the term for the technique), when in fact that charge is essentially ludicrous, is what I mean when I take you at your word when you seemed to say you believed this. The uncharitable interpretation would be that you would personally attribute corruption to someone because of their politics (e.g. 'socialism') that by undermining the man you undermine the belief. But I chose to be charitable and assume you really believed it, in which case I say you are a poor judge of character.

I will be the first to assume almost by default that most politicians - especially those in a high position of power - will have become enriched either by choice or by compact - by de facto bribes, 'contributions', promises, and more literally deposits into accounts in the Caymans. And some of this is totally legal, which to me makes it worse. So I am on board with being concerned about candidates being unthruthfully champions of topics whereas in fact that are a means to an end to achieve money or power. And it is within the realm of possibility that Bernie was like this, even if only to an extent. I just think that if you're going to pick on anyone with this kind of suspicion, he's about the least likely suspect. Not impossible, but also not warranted.

Take this line:

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Bernie is now a multimillionaire with no qualms at how he got all that money.

I do not even think it is possible to present a legitimate argument with this as a part of it. It does all kinds of implying while saying nothing, and so leaves nothing to refute even though it gives the air of having made a substantial point. Never mind the fact that being a "millionaire" is trivially easy as far as things go and isn't even some kind of feat if all you mean is 1-2 million. Here's an easy trick to do that: buy a house in 1970 for $50,000 in a neighborhood that would only become massively gentrified in the 90's, and voila, you are now the proud owner of a house worth over 1 million, thus, a millionaire. That, and a little put into funds from a meager middle-class work over 50 years, and you'll have around double that. Woohoo. Now maybe Bernie is worth way more than that, and I really don't know which properties he happens to own, but the mere charge of being a 'millionaire' meaning he must have been corrupt is the sort of insubstantial insinuation that I could have initially taken to task; but rather I thought to avoid all that, take you at your word that you thought you had good reason to say so, and just leave it with me thinking you're a poor judge of character.

TheDeamon

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Re: What about Bernie?
« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2020, 11:51:17 PM »
Bernie lives in a dual income home, his wife works in a job that normally clears 6 digits before the decimal.

He also had three different book deals, one of which was a best seller that made him a fair bit of money on its own. Add in some careful real estate investing and yeah, it's hardly shocking he was estimated to be worth at least $2.5 Million in 2019. He's well off, but not outrageously so given his age and household income.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/chasewithorn/2019/04/12/how-bernie-sanders-the-socialist-senator-amassed-a-25-million-fortune/#651a695936bf

Crunch

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Re: What about Bernie?
« Reply #8 on: April 11, 2020, 09:14:41 AM »
Book sales, lol, right. And who bought those books? It’s a common scam.  Just a coincidence that the book deals are done after he drops out in favor of Hillary. Right? Drops out, whips up a couple of bestsellers.

Another common scam:
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Democrat presidential candidate Sen. Bernie Sanders of Vermont faces numerous scandals or potential scandals regarding his family’s financial practices and the bookkeeping practices of his past campaigns. Sanders’ former congressional campaigns funneled money to Sanders’ wife and stepdaughter. Sanders’ 2016 presidential campaign fed millions of dollars to a makeshift political ad buying company run by Sanders’ wife’s friends.

Nothing pays so well as demonizing the rich, it seems.

wmLambert

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Re: What about Bernie?
« Reply #9 on: April 11, 2020, 09:29:27 PM »
...Bernie lives in a dual income home, his wife works in a job that normally clears 6 digits before the decimal.

He also had three different book deals, one of which was a best seller that made him a fair bit of money on its own.

Biden lives in a multiple income home also, but each member of his family owes their worth to his political machinations. The spouses of a senator make money. Before he ran against Hillary, Bernie had a modest income compared to other Senators, and lived in a small home. Now he is one of those rich guys he targets.

About book deals... Gingrich drew fire for criticizing the book deal of the former Speaker. He had a book deal with a huge cash bonus up front. The book itself was mostly empty pages. Since I've been watching, books that GOP authors write become best sellers, they don't get the same big bonuses the Dems do. Best-book lists often place Dem authors with tens of thousands of sales over GOP authors with hundreds of thousands of sales. Obama became wealthy from that same formula. His two "autobiographies" are believed by many to have been ghost-written for him by Bill Ayres. One of the best investigative examinations pointed out the many metaphors for boats and sailing in his books that has Bill Ayres' fingerprints all over them, while Obama does not have that frame of reference at all.

BTW, isn't what Bernie is doing with his fundraising dollars "absconding with donated monies in order to enrich himself?" When he ran against Hilary, everybody gave him an allowance for self-aggrandizement after being so soundly wronged by the DNC and Hillary. Most candidates are in the minus category and end up owing money. It is not conspiracy theory to recognize facts. Instead of mentioning exactly what he would do with all his money, he spoke about pushing his issues and how he would work to further them through the Convention.

Fenring

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Re: What about Bernie?
« Reply #10 on: April 11, 2020, 11:29:37 PM »
BTW, isn't what Bernie is doing with his fundraising dollars "absconding with donated monies in order to enrich himself?"

I don't know. Why don't you try making the case if you want me to agree? I'm not against entertaining things whose result I won't like, if there's something to back it up.

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When he ran against Hilary, everybody gave him an allowance for self-aggrandizement after being so soundly wronged by the DNC and Hillary. Most candidates are in the minus category and end up owing money. It is not conspiracy theory to recognize facts. Instead of mentioning exactly what he would do with all his money, he spoke about pushing his issues and how he would work to further them through the Convention.

What is an "allowance for self-aggrandizement"? I take that to mean that people afforded him a certain latitude, rather than gave him cash? But even if their attitude towards him was quite positive or forgiving, I'm still not sure what you think there was to forgive. Generally when I think of things like "book deals" or "speeches at Goldman Sachs" the implication is that this isn't really remuneration for services rendered, but a bribe that requires a front-facing action to legally support it. The argument would have to be something like that this bribe is intended to obtain favors from the candidate should he/she increase their power (e.g. by becoming President). Since Bernie was already a senator the Presidency could be the only office he could obtain that would justify such a bribe. So now the question you'd have to answer is who do you think these bribes were coming from? And if I'm going to entertain your theory - which I truthfully would do - you will have to explain who had a vested interest in both Bernie being President *and* in engaging in the bribery for favors system. Presumably this would be a significant player, to both afford it, be able to leverage the book deal into real success, as well as to be enough of a player at the table during a Presidency to realistically cash in those favors. But which major players wanted Bernie as President? I'll ask for specifics on this; at least an industry, a faction, or a group of think tanks will suffice.