Author Topic: Our Racist President  (Read 3339 times)

Wayward Son

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Our Racist President
« on: July 15, 2019, 03:59:34 PM »
For anyone who gave Trump the benefit of the doubt about being racist, let them go.  As you've probably heard, his tweets on Sunday removed all doubt:

Quote
So interesting to see 'Progressive' Democrat Congresswomen, who originally came from countries whose governments are a complete and total catastrophe, the worst, most corrupt and inept anywhere in the world (if they even have a functioning government at all), now loudly and viciously telling the people of the United States, the greatest and most powerful Nation on earth, how our government is to be run. Why don’t they go back and help fix the totally broken and crime infested places from which they came. Then come back and show us how it is done. These places need your help badly, you can’t leave fast enough. I’m sure that Nancy Pelosi would be very happy to quickly work out free travel arrangements!

The most likely Congresswomen he was talking about are Reps. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez of New York, Ilhan Omar of Minnesota, Ayanna Pressley of Massachusetts and Rashida Tlaib of Michigan.  All  of them are American citizens.  Three of them were born in America.  Two of them were born to American parents.  One of them has American ancestors that have been in this country longer than Trump has.

You can almost hear him suggesting that if blacks don't like this country, they should go back to Africa.  ::)

Is there any wonder anymore why white supremacists support him?

Is there anyone who doesn't realize that, if you support Trump, you are supporting someone who believes not every citizen is an American?

I'm curious if anyone on this board still supports this President.  Is it because you agree that some Congresswomen should "go back" to where "they came?"  Is it because you will forgive a bit of racism if you can get other policies enacted?  Is it because you love the current economy so much that disenfranchising citizens is a small price to pay?

Trump is a lying, bullying, racist POS.  I hope that everyone on this board finally recognizes this and will act appropriately from now on.

D.W.

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2019, 04:10:55 PM »
I considered a post earlier about what line he could cross to lose support,  (or finding a thread I believe we already had on that topic and digging it up), but decided not to bother.  It's all rather pointless by now.

Those who want to excuse his behavior will do so still.  Those who can put up with it, may grind another layer off their teeth but that's about it.  Everyone knew Trump's character before they voted.  Probably more so than most to hold the office.  Maybe some believed that Trump the persona wouldn't be the same as Trump the president? 

Whatever, the man can't become more of a disappointment to me.  Maybe the "cure for cancer" campaign comment by Biden was just code for getting Trump out of office.  Until then though Trump will keep stirring the pot and shocking us with the realization that the prestige and dignity of the office is no match for one such as he.

SSDD

partial retraction:  I see already to some extent I'm wrong.  Several GOP lawmakers are condemning his comments.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2019, 04:14:59 PM by D.W. »

TheDrake

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2019, 04:18:20 PM »
This story is all TDS and the liberal media's fault.

DonaldD

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2019, 04:29:41 PM »
The question is... which policies/executive orders are being enacted this/next week that will benefit from the distraction provided by the sturm und drang resulting from his tweets?

Seriati

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2019, 04:42:23 PM »
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/01/24/in-116th-congress-at-least-13-of-lawmakers-are-immigrants-or-the-children-of-immigrants/

Tough to really say, my guess is he means Omar and was being sloppy, but certainly possible he doesn't view others as American.  This is one of those self owns, where he got in his own way.  No real reason to use the "go back where you came from format."

But the problem here, is that he's largely correct, the progressive congresswomen do largely seem to hate the country they represent (which is a common failing on the left that sees every fault America has every made, but doesn't see the good).  If he kept it to patriotism, and to misrepresentations of facts, he'd have a point, as it is we have a distraction and more fuel for the fire.

DJQuag

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2019, 04:44:43 PM »
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/01/24/in-116th-congress-at-least-13-of-lawmakers-are-immigrants-or-the-children-of-immigrants/

Tough to really say, my guess is he means Omar and was being sloppy, but certainly possible he doesn't view others as American.  This is one of those self owns, where he got in his own way.  No real reason to use the "go back where you came from format."

But the problem here, is that he's largely correct, the progressive congresswomen do largely seem to hate the country they represent (which is a common failing on the left that sees every fault America has every made, but doesn't see the good).  If he kept it to patriotism, and to misrepresentations of facts, he'd have a point, as it is we have a distraction and more fuel for the fire.

And if he was a squirrel, he'd probably go on a rant over acorns being so expensive. The man is what he is.

DonaldD

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #6 on: July 15, 2019, 05:11:37 PM »
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But the problem here, is that he's largely correct, the progressive congresswomen do largely seem to hate the country they represent
And this here illustrates one of, if not the main, failures of the modern USA - the inability to accept that others who do not share one's particular beliefs must hate the country.

These are woman who have repeatedly voiced their love of country and who have decided to serve their homeland.  They will just never be accepted by the "USA - love it or leave it" simple-minded, binary folks who don't happen to agree with them on policy.

Seriati

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #7 on: July 15, 2019, 05:39:06 PM »
Actions and words are different things.  What exactly do you think they are doing that shows a love of country?  How are they supporting our country?  They seem to me to be more divisive than the President.  Have no respect for our laws.  Routinely to lie about the country and what it stands for.  I honestly, can't think of what makes you think that they do love the country.

Maybe I'm just missing it, but the idea that "repeating your love of country" when your actions are the opposite doesn't cut it for me.

DJQuag

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #8 on: July 15, 2019, 05:56:11 PM »
By law or by tradition? Because this country prides itself on being a moral leader for the world. What they're saying is the conditions that these caught immigrants are living in are abhorrent and offend what we stand for at a basic level.

Does anyone here think it's cool that while they may get food and 2x3 foot square slab of concrete to sleep on that they don't get soap and toothpaste? Oh, only the single men, thata fine, lol. ISIS gave those things to their prisoners. Frigging ISIS.

Seriati

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #9 on: July 15, 2019, 06:04:08 PM »
Actually, I think it's just a lie that they don't get soap and toothpaste, and 100% the fault of Congress to the extent there is any overcrowding or lack of amenities.  Pretty sure that AOC lied about it, and 100% sure that her claiming they were concentration camps was ridiculous polemic that hurt the US (why would I think she hates the country again?).

100% sure that activists from the left have exacerbated the problem at the border and that sanctuary cities and free services have gotten people killed and created the "inhumane" conditions that are being decried.  I have zero patience for pretending the left are the good guys here.  They are liars, and they are directly supporting the undermining of our laws.  We have a very generous immigration system when compared with just about anyone's and yet that's not enough for the left, they have to encourage breaking it.

They've coached perjury from tens of thousands, maybe more, illegal immigrants by teaching them to lie about asylum, which has endangered the ability of people who actually need asylum to make reasonable claims.  I am at the point, where I want everyone here illegally expelled.  There should be no citizenship, or rights of any kind provided to anyone that won't agree to follow our laws, and I'd even solidify the position that the child of an illegal alien is not a citizen.

None of which is due to xenophobia, racism or hatred of anyone, but all of which relates to a respect for the rule of law, and a belief that we have a right to control our own borders.   I have no problem with expanding legal immigration.

DonaldD

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #10 on: July 16, 2019, 05:30:48 AM »
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They seem to me to be more divisive than the President.  Have no respect for our laws.  Routinely to lie about the country and what it stands for.  I honestly, can't think of what makes you think that they do love the country.
This just illustrates my point.  You could as easily have used these exact same words, just turned around, to describe the president. Your partisan blinders simply don't allow you to see it.

cherrypoptart

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #11 on: July 16, 2019, 07:13:00 AM »
Isn't everyone who opposes open borders already a racist anyway?

DJQuag

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #12 on: July 16, 2019, 08:01:15 AM »
Isn't everyone who opposes open borders already a racist anyway?

By all means.  Justify your side's radicalism by quoting ours.

Telling someone to go back to their own country means something in America. Grow a pair and acknowledge that.

cherrypoptart

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #13 on: July 16, 2019, 08:15:29 AM »
I'm asking if everyone who opposes open borders is racist. Show of hands would be fine.

I'll raise mine first. Yes, everyone who opposes open borders is racist. That is my understanding anyway.

As for his specific comment, what if he had told Beto to go back to Ireland if he wants to live in a socialist country? Would that have been racist? Or if he told Pelosi to go back to Italy if she wants to be overwhelmed by immigrants? Would that have been racist? Or is Trump's comment only racist because it was directed at non-whites? Or in other words is the same type of comment racist when directed at some people but not racist when directed at others?

Crunch

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #14 on: July 16, 2019, 08:16:55 AM »
Isn't everyone who opposes open borders already a racist anyway?

By all means.  Justify your side's radicalism by quoting ours.

Telling someone to go back to their own country means something in America. Grow a pair and acknowledge that.

What does asking them to come back with the solutions mean?

Crunch

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #15 on: July 16, 2019, 08:20:59 AM »
Isn't everyone who opposes open borders already a racist anyway?

A racist is anyone that disagrees with the left. That’s all. It doesn’t mean anything else in modern political discourse.

Case in point, the same people all in a tizzy about Trump’s comments are also proponents of racial segregation. Calling others a racist while supporting racial segregation is such a great demonstration of the left and how they work and is the key in understanding what they mean when they say ”racist”.

Even Pelosi was a racist this week because she disagreed with the squad.

cherrypoptart

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #16 on: July 16, 2019, 08:36:10 AM »
Well this was a timely article to find, just what I was looking for, to the point Mr. Crunch just made, examples of Democrats calling each other racist which is par for the course. Everyone is racist and it only takes the slightest difference of opinion to prove it. When everyone is racist is anyone really racist?

https://www.yahoo.com/news/dems-disarray-103038792.html

"...To recap, just in the last few days, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez suggested that Nancy Pelosi was being a racist and, when called on it, said she wasn’t saying that. AOC’s brain, Saikat Chakrabarti, compared the gay Kansas congresswoman Sharice Davids, also a Democrat, to segregationist Southern Democrats of yore because her votes supposedly “are showing her to enable a racist system.” The official Twitter account of the House Democrats threw the racism charge right back in Chakrabarti’s face, saying he was “explicitly singling out a Native American woman of color.”

Accusations of racism are a kind of brainless addiction on the Left, like slot machines. Whenever they feel unsatisfied with anything, they break their minds into quarters, put them in the slots, yank the arm down, and repeat. Ayanna Pressley of Massachusetts, heretofore the most unassuming member of the “squad” of young House firebrands that also includes AOC, Ilhan Omar of Minnesota, and Rashida Tlaib of Michigan, made an undergraduate-level authenticity argument against Democratic-party minorities, such as members of the Congressional Black Caucus, who fail to vote with the extreme Left:

    We don’t need any more brown faces that don’t want to be a brown voice. We don’t need any more black faces that don’t want to be a black voice. We don’t need Muslims that don’t want to be a Muslim voice. We don’t need queers that don’t want to be a queer voice. We don’t need any more Muslim faces that don’t want to be a Muslim voice.

It was like one Oberlin minority accusing another of being a “coconut” or an “Oreo.”

cherrypoptart

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #17 on: July 16, 2019, 10:18:13 AM »
https://www.yahoo.com/news/asian-caucus-hits-back-after-trumps-racist-go-back-to-other-countries-tweet-230118831.html

"Asian Caucus Hits Back After Trump's Racist 'Go Back' To Other Countries Tweet"

So Asians can have a caucus. Blacks can have a caucus. Hispanics can have a caucus. And that's fine.

But whites? Whites can NOT have a caucus. And that's not racist how exactly?

It's funny having all these racists in all their racist little caucuses calling Trump a racist.

NobleHunter

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #18 on: July 16, 2019, 10:30:51 AM »
Whites do have a caucus, it's called the Republican Party.

cherrypoptart

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #19 on: July 16, 2019, 10:44:08 AM »
Are there whites in the Asian caucus or the black caucus? Because there are Asians and blacks in the so called white caucus aka Republican Party. Are whites even allowed to join the Asian caucus or black caucus? What if they are fellow Democrats who fully support their goals but just happen to be white?

cherrypoptart

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #20 on: July 16, 2019, 10:54:41 AM »
And another thing while we're talking about racism, what's with the racist census?

No, not the question about whether or not you are a citizen. How would that be racist when recent immigrants from Europe may not be citizens either?

No, I'm talking about how the census has a bunch of boxes to check specifying what kind of Asian you are for example Japanese, Chinese, Korean, etc. It has a bunch of boxes to check specifying what kind of African you are for example Kenyan, Nigerian, etc. It has a bunch of boxes to check specifying what kind of Hispanic you are for example Mexican, Puerto Rican, etc. That's fine. That's cool. No problem with any of that. Now that's to the best of my remembrance so if it's not exactly like that it's along those lines.

Now when it comes to white it's great because it also has a bunch of boxes to check specifying what kind of white you are for example Irish, French, German, etc. Oh wait a minute. That's right, it doesn't! Now how exactly is that not completely racist? And why aren't people who hate racism not more upset about it?

I had to write my European ancestry in pencil on the last census though I doubt it did any good because they probably have no way to record the information and yes I know it because of a DNA test. How come my wife gets a sweet little box to check Japanese but I can't put down Irish/German/French/British/Finnish/Jewish/Russian? It's not fair. It's not right. It's downright blatantly racist.

rightleft22

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #21 on: July 16, 2019, 10:58:12 AM »
Quote
This story is all TDS
  TDS goes both ways. Those that can't acknowledge anything good in Trump and those that can't acknowledge anything wrong


Good to see all the talking points come out... great strategy for Trump.

Personally I think Trump should go back where he came from. If you listen to him everything is negative as only in some mythic past was America great. He wines more then any president ever but for some reason his negativity is love of country where as those that don't agree with him must hate it.
Its hypocrisy at the grossest level. But that what he does. He projects exactly what hes doing on to some other and calls it out as being horrible.

Only certain men in history get away without ever being held accountable. It never ends well, But we build the world we deserve.

Everyone keep dancing.

NobleHunter

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #22 on: July 16, 2019, 10:59:08 AM »
Are there whites in the Asian caucus or the black caucus? Because there are Asians and blacks in the so called white caucus aka Republican Party. Are whites even allowed to join the Asian caucus or black caucus? What if they are fellow Democrats who fully support their goals but just happen to be white?

I believe its up to each caucus to define the terms of their association.

Though I'm curious to know what sort of common interests you think white members of Congress have that would make a White caucus useful.

I don't know about the Census but you might not get the real reason unless you have access to the government's hard drives.

Your DNA test was likely full of *censored*.

cherrypoptart

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #23 on: July 16, 2019, 11:00:20 AM »
Okay, never mind, looks like they are ahead of me.

Maybe me penciling it in last time got something sent up the chain of command.

https://www.npr.org/2018/02/01/582338628/-what-kind-of-white-2020-census-to-ask-white-people-about-origins

"The race question is going to get complicated for many people who identify as white on the U.S. census.

Since 1960, when U.S. residents were first allowed to self-report their race on the census, just answering "White" has been enough to complete the race question. But the federal government is now preparing to essentially ask non-Hispanic white people where they and their ancestors are from as part of the Census Bureau's inquiry into their racial identity.Last month, the Census Bureau announced it's adding a write-in area for the "White" category on the 2020 census questionnaire so that participants can provide their "origins."

"Print, for example, German, Irish, English, Italian, Lebanese, Egyptian, etc.," read the instructions on the form the bureau is using in a practice run of the 2020 census in Rhode Island's Providence County beginning in March.

Those suggested answers are among the largest U.S. population groups descending from Europe, the Middle East and North Africa — regions with "original peoples" classified by the U.S. government as "White," according to the federal standards for race and ethnicity data."
« Last Edit: July 16, 2019, 11:06:12 AM by cherrypoptart »

cherrypoptart

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #24 on: July 16, 2019, 11:11:10 AM »
Well obviously I'm not lamenting the fact that there isn't a white caucus. I don't think there should be. It would be racist if there was one. Only racist people would join it. But that goes for all of them just as well, just the same. It's by definition. In fact, right about a now a definition of racism would be very helpful. I'd suggest one but it might be too simplistic so I'm open to others. Treating people differently because of their race is racism.

Granted that ancestral DNA isn't an exact science but mine pretty well matched my genealogical research very well.

Anyone else read the Jack Reacher novels? I like the parts where he gets pedantic, semantic, and sarcastic.

NobleHunter

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #25 on: July 16, 2019, 11:19:16 AM »
Can you think of any shared interests of Black or Asian people that might contribute to the existence of the Black and Asian caucuses?

cherrypoptart

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #26 on: July 16, 2019, 11:30:32 AM »
Whatever interests they share couldn't people of other races share the same interests? "Shared interests" actually sounds like code for racism. Fact is they are groups based on race. By definition they are racist groups. Everyone always has their reasons. Justifications. Rationales. They may even have some good ones. But bottom line, racism is racism. Of course, we all know that the left argues that some racism is good; some racism is better than others. Affirmative action, for example. Obviously it's racist. If you're Asian you need a higher score then if you are white. Blatantly racist. But it's the good racism. But there aren't good people on both sides. There are good racists on only one side.

TheDrake

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #27 on: July 16, 2019, 11:31:23 AM »
A white caucus might be useful and necessary in.... Zimbabwe. When you're in the majority and have the power, you don't need to amplify your voice and represent your concerns. When you are in the minority and are not treated equally, you need a caucus.

TheDrake

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #28 on: July 16, 2019, 11:38:07 AM »
Actually, I think it's just a lie that they don't get soap and toothpaste, and 100% the fault of Congress to the extent there is any overcrowding or lack of amenities.  Pretty sure that AOC lied about it, and 100% sure that her claiming they were concentration camps was ridiculous polemic that hurt the US (why would I think she hates the country again?).

Actually, you can think that but it is happening. Otherwise the government's lawyer wouldn't be arguing that they don't have to provide it.

Quote
The government went to federal court this week to argue that it shouldn’t be required to give detained migrant children toothbrushes, soap, towels, showers or even half a night’s sleep inside Border Patrol detention facilities.

The position bewildered a panel of three judges in the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 9th Circuit on Tuesday, who questioned whether government lawyers sincerely believed they could describe the temporary detention facilities as “safe and sanitary” if children weren’t provided adequate toiletries and sleeping conditions. One circuit judge said it struck him as “inconceivable."

That was actually a lawsuit against the Obama administration, so this isn't a partisan thing.

100% the fault of Congress? That's a lot of percent. What if Trump had continued Obama era policies? Would we be having a humanitarian crisis?

NobleHunter

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #29 on: July 16, 2019, 11:42:54 AM »
Whatever interests they share couldn't people of other races share the same interests? "Shared interests" actually sounds like code for racism. Fact is they are groups based on race. By definition they are racist groups. Everyone always has their reasons. Justifications. Rationales. They may even have some good ones. But bottom line, racism is racism. Of course, we all know that the left argues that some racism is good; some racism is better than others. Affirmative action, for example. Obviously it's racist. If you're Asian you need a higher score then if you are white. Blatantly racist. But it's the good racism. But there aren't good people on both sides. There are good racists on only one side.

Are you suggesting that Jim Crow is morally equivalent to affirmative action?

scifibum

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #30 on: July 16, 2019, 11:53:31 AM »
Quote
But the problem here, is that he's largely correct, the progressive congresswomen do largely seem to hate the country they represent (which is a common failing on the left that sees every fault America has every made, but doesn't see the good).

This is such a load of crap, Seriati.

Criticism of policy or politicians doesn't equate to hate of country. That's a BIG LIE and you're a big fool if you believe it and repeat it.

DonaldD

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #31 on: July 16, 2019, 11:56:18 AM »
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Fact is they are groups based on race. By definition they are racist groups.
No, this is not by definition.  You should look it up.  Maybe what you meant is "racial".  This is pretty basic, language-101-level comprehension.  Unless you are trying to redefine the word for political reasons... naw...

TheDrake

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #32 on: July 16, 2019, 12:08:56 PM »
The beauty of our country is that you are allowed if not encouraged to be dissatisfied with our country, its laws, and its leaders. It doesn't mean you "hate" the country. It means you recognize that it can be different and better than it is today.

I would argue that most conservatives, by that definition, hate our country. They hate most of its institutions, they hate most judges, they hate its taxes, they hate its trade deals, they hate its protection of our environment...

TheDeamon

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #33 on: July 16, 2019, 01:07:41 PM »
These are woman who have repeatedly voiced their love of country and who have decided to serve their homeland.  They will just never be accepted by the "USA - love it or leave it" simple-minded, binary folks who don't happen to agree with them on policy.

I'm under the impression Omar in particular was very proud of her Palestinian roots, and continues to view it as her "homeland" even if it is not where she lives.

But she knows its a crap-hole, and as a woman, would have little influence there. So she's taken up residence here instead. There is no interest like self-interest. Of course, there's the dog-and-pony show she sells instead because that reality wouldn't sell very well, but whatever.

TheDeamon

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #34 on: July 16, 2019, 01:19:51 PM »
Whites do have a caucus, it's called the Republican Party.

What's with the Black Guy and several Hispanics then? They're not very white.

TheDrake

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #35 on: July 16, 2019, 01:33:49 PM »
I know people who view Ireland or Italy as their homeland even though it was their great-great-grandparents who last lived there. It doesn't mean they aren't good American citizens.

DonaldD

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #36 on: July 16, 2019, 02:05:28 PM »
Quote
So she's taken up residence here instead. There is no interest like self-interest.
That's pretty disingenuous of you.  Was it purposeful, or subconscious?  She moved here with her family as a child - so "tak[ing] up residence" wasn't her decision.  She did become a citizen when she was still a minor, however, so one might say she has taken more active steps to become a member of the polity than people who were simply born here and just inherited their citizenship without any effort on their part.

cherrypoptart

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #37 on: July 16, 2019, 03:02:40 PM »
Definition of racist 1. a person who shows or feels discrimination or prejudice against people of other races, or who believes that a particular race is superior to another.

Definition of discrimination 1. the unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people or things, especially on the grounds of race, age, or sex.

So having a caucus based on race and not letting other races join your little caucus is prejudicial treatment of different categories of people on the grounds of race. It's the definition of racism. There are other definitions about feeling superior and the situation may not fit that definition but it fits this one perfectly.

Getting into the details gets interesting too. So there is the Asian caucus and the Black caucus and they both fight for equality. The Black caucus says Blacks make up 13% of the population but get much less representation than that in Ivy League schools so that is unequal. The Asians say even though the Asian student scored much higher than the black student the black student got the open slot so that is unequal. But they are both fighting for equality. And of course since none of them are white none of them are racist even though they are fighting for their own race at the expense of another and there is nothing at all racist about that.

DonaldD

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #38 on: July 16, 2019, 03:46:27 PM »
Now you pretend not to understand "prejudicial" (hint - there is no judgment required in having a club open to only a select type of people.) Either that, or you do not understand formal logic.

TheDeamon

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #39 on: July 16, 2019, 04:01:33 PM »
Now you pretend not to understand "prejudicial" (hint - there is no judgment required in having a club open to only a select type of people.) Either that, or you do not understand formal logic.

There was a judgement made all the same, it was even a pre-made decision purely on the grounds of race. They need not consider the rest of your application.

"Are you Asian? No? Too bad, you can't join."
"Are you Black? No? Too bad, you can't join."
"Are you White? No? Too bad, you can't join."

Under our legal system, it's firmly established that membership applications to various groups cannot decline membership applications in the third scenario. But the other two are okay? Lady justice is supposed to blind, not stupid.

DonaldD

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #40 on: July 16, 2019, 04:17:32 PM »
And now we have someone who doesn't understand the definition of the word "judgment"... either that, or you are conflating the legal vs non-legal language, which I agree is stupid.  (again, here's a hint - you do not need to form an opinion in order to identify somebody as black or Asian.)

There is no law against being a racist.  Racist acts, however, may or may not be illegal.

cherrypoptart

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #41 on: July 16, 2019, 04:18:00 PM »
That's why I mentioned enjoying semantics and being pedantic. I was going to capitalize the OR between "discrimination or prejudice" in the definition of racism but I did make the point by further defining discrimination but leaving prejudice out of it. Prejudice is not necessary for racism. Only discrimination. And discrimination is clear enough when you allow one race but not others. Good intentions and pure motives are also irrelevant at least to that common sense definition of racist. I'm glad at least I'm not the only one who sees the irony in members of the Asian and Black Congressional Caucuses calling someone out for supposed racism. And Trump's statement is only racist if he refuses to apply it to all races. If a white person of Canadian ancestry were elected to the American Congress and started trash talking America I have no doubt that Trump would be perfectly willing to tell them that if they hated America so much they are always free to go back to Canada. If Trump wouldn't be willing to apply the same standard to white politicians who trash talk America all the time then I would agree that's racist. But we've heard plenty of Trump supporters gung ho for white Hollywood elites and others who also talk about going to Canada being full of nothing but encouragement so I'm not seeing the racism. Treat all people equally regardless of race and you're not a racist. Tell anyone who hates America which they demonstrate by wanting to change the fundamental principles on which it is based and which made it prosperous, made it the greatest nation God ever gave Man, that they are free to leave, and that's not racist at all.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2019, 04:23:28 PM by cherrypoptart »

DonaldD

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #42 on: July 16, 2019, 04:21:42 PM »
Except then you need to learn the meaning of the word discrimination, which you also glossed over cherrypoptart.

Here is where your language skills fail you most recently:
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And discrimination is clear enough when you allow one race but not others.
No - it is not clear.  And by "clear enough" I expect you mean "proven" or "demonstrated". Can you figure out why not?
« Last Edit: July 16, 2019, 04:24:11 PM by DonaldD »

NobleHunter

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #43 on: July 16, 2019, 04:26:07 PM »
That's why I mentioned enjoying semantics and being pedantic. I was going to capitalize the OR between "discrimination or prejudice" in the definition of racism but I did make the point by further defining discrimination but leaving prejudice out of it. Prejudice is not necessary for racism. Only discrimination. And discrimination is clear enough when you allow one race but not others. Good intentions and pure motives are also irrelevant at least to that common sense definition of racist. I'm glad at least I'm not the only one who sees the irony in members of the Asian and Black Congressional Caucuses calling someone out for supposed racism. And Trump's statement is only racist if he refuses to apply it to all races. If a white person of Canadian ancestry were elected to the American Congress and started trash talking America I have no doubt that Trump would be perfectly willing to tell them that if they hated America so much they are always free to go back to Canada. If Trump wouldn't be willing to apply the same standard to white politicians who trash talk America all the time then I would agree that's racist. But we've heard plenty of Trump supporters gung ho for white Hollywood elites and others who also talk about going to Canada being full of nothing but encouragement so I'm not seeing the racism. Treat all people equally regardless of race and you're not a racist. Tell anyone who hates America which they demonstrate by wanting to change the fundamental principles on which it is based and which made it prosperous, made it the greatest nation God ever gave Man, that they are free to leave, and that's not racist at all.

Except the only time Trump's told someone to go back where they came from is when criticizing non-White people. There are white immigrants serving in Congress, yet Trump hasn't used that particular meme against them.

DonaldD

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #44 on: July 16, 2019, 04:26:47 PM »
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Tell anyone who hates America which they demonstrate by wanting to change the fundamental principles on which it is based
Once again, a perfect illustration of a huge failure in parts of the US psyche today.

Crunch

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #45 on: July 16, 2019, 05:02:51 PM »
And here’s the point of it all:

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Top Democrats are circulating a poll showing that one of the House's most progressive members — Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez — has become a definitional face for the party with a crucial group of swing voters.
...

"If all voters hear about is AOC, it could put the [House] majority at risk," said a top Democrat who is involved in 2020 congressional races. "(S)he's getting all the news and defining everyone else's races."

The poll -- taken in May, before Speaker Pelosi's latest run-in with AOC and the three other liberal House freshmen known as "The Squad" -- included 1,003 likely general-election voters who are white and have two years or less of college education.

These are the "white, non-college voters" who embraced Donald Trump in 2016 but are needed by Democrats in swing House districts.

The group that took the poll shared the results with Axios on the condition that it not be named, because the group has to work with all parts of the party.

The findings:

Ocasio-Cortez was recognized by 74% of voters in the poll; 22% had a favorable view.


Rep. Ilhan Omar of Minnesota -- another member of The Squad -- was recognized by 53% of the voters; 9% (not a typo) had a favorable view.

Socialism was viewed favorably by 18% of the voters and unfavorably by 69%.

Capitalism was 56% favorable; 32% unfavorable.

"Socialism is toxic to these voters," said the top Democrat.

Trump has made these people the face of the Democrat party. Almost everyone knows them and almost everyone dislikes them and what they stand for as we run up to elections. The knee jerk defense of the squad cements that perception. This was a brilliant move, genius level stuff from Trump. This keeps up and 2020 will be a landslide victory for him.

Seriati

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #46 on: July 16, 2019, 07:14:11 PM »
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They seem to me to be more divisive than the President.  Have no respect for our laws.  Routinely to lie about the country and what it stands for.  I honestly, can't think of what makes you think that they do love the country.
This just illustrates my point.  You could as easily have used these exact same words, just turned around, to describe the president. Your partisan blinders simply don't allow you to see it.

You should know me better, I  saw it when I wrote it.  Of course I think Trump has routinely complied with the law, followed court decisions even when they violated the separation of powers, and generally is in trouble for following and enforcing the law.  I don't see ANYTHING on the right that is equivalent to sanctuary cities, or coaching perjury in asylum cases.  Name it for me.


Seriati

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #47 on: July 16, 2019, 07:25:17 PM »
Actually, I think it's just a lie that they don't get soap and toothpaste, and 100% the fault of Congress to the extent there is any overcrowding or lack of amenities.  Pretty sure that AOC lied about it, and 100% sure that her claiming they were concentration camps was ridiculous polemic that hurt the US (why would I think she hates the country again?).

Actually, you can think that but it is happening. Otherwise the government's lawyer wouldn't be arguing that they don't have to provide it.

So because Obama's lawyers made a legal claim (not a statement of fact), I should accept AOC's lie?  No.  That's not how hypotheticals work at appeals courts.

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100% the fault of Congress? That's a lot of percent. What if Trump had continued Obama era policies? Would we be having a humanitarian crisis?

Yes, we'd still have a humanitarian crisis because Trump's economy is a magnet and Obama's was insect repellent.

But you are dodging the point.  100% of the lack of adequate facilities is at the feet of the only branch of government that can allocate money to fund adequate facilities.  Congress.  When Congress passes ANY law that fixes the situation call me, been waiting for decades.

TheDeamon

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #48 on: July 16, 2019, 11:22:25 PM »
But you are dodging the point.  100% of the lack of adequate facilities is at the feet of the only branch of government that can allocate money to fund adequate facilities.  Congress.  When Congress passes ANY law that fixes the situation call me, been waiting for decades.

And it's even more ironic given more/better detention facilities was a line item in Trump's funding request that the Democrats cut back in February. Yet the bad conditions in detention facilities(which we now know have existed since Obama was President are somehow Trump's fault?

TheDeamon

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #49 on: July 16, 2019, 11:34:12 PM »
For anyone who gave Trump the benefit of the doubt about being racist, let them go.  As you've probably heard, his tweets on Sunday removed all doubt:

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So interesting to see 'Progressive' Democrat Congresswomen, who originally came from countries whose governments are a complete and total catastrophe, the worst, most corrupt and inept anywhere in the world (if they even have a functioning government at all), now loudly and viciously telling the people of the United States, the greatest and most powerful Nation on earth, how our government is to be run. Why don’t they go back and help fix the totally broken and crime infested places from which they came. Then come back and show us how it is done. These places need your help badly, you can’t leave fast enough. I’m sure that Nancy Pelosi would be very happy to quickly work out free travel arrangements!

The most likely Congresswomen he was talking about are Reps. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez of New York, Ilhan Omar of Minnesota, Ayanna Pressley of Massachusetts and Rashida Tlaib of Michigan.  All  of them are American citizens.  Three of them were born in America.  Two of them were born to American parents.  One of them has American ancestors that have been in this country longer than Trump has.

You can almost hear him suggesting that if blacks don't like this country, they should go back to Africa.  ::)

Is there any wonder anymore why white supremacists support him?

It appears he has doubled down on the statement since and at least to me, it sounded very "race neutral" to my ears. but "you guys" are off chasing bogeymen. Everything is racist for you and most Democrat elites, it's plain as day for all("Trump voters") to see.

The phrasing is awkward as hell, in large part due to "the lensing" that can be done with it, as you and others have already done on this forum.

For those among the "not woke" audience that don't view everything as potentially racist and a capable of at least a modicum of objectivity, Trump's phrasing is absolutely brilliant. He triggered the living daylights out of Democratic/Liberal/Left-wing Operatives. He's making them look like idiots, which they evidently are because they're running a freaking marathon with it.

They're just further validating to that infamous "Trump voter" why they voted for the right person in 2016. The real kicker in this is the Dems are not seeing it for what it is either.