Author Topic: Our Racist President  (Read 42929 times)

Crunch

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #50 on: July 17, 2019, 07:35:05 AM »
Except then you need to learn the meaning of the word discrimination, which you also glossed over cherrypoptart.

Here is where your language skills fail you most recently:
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And discrimination is clear enough when you allow one race but not others.
No - it is not clear.  And by "clear enough" I expect you mean "proven" or "demonstrated". Can you figure out why not?

Let’s ask Ralph “Coonman” Northam to figure that out.

cherrypoptart

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #51 on: July 17, 2019, 08:55:12 AM »
I can't help but notice how fast the whole Russian collusion delusion Democrat media hoax disappeared from the headlines. Of course that has nothing to do with this. And that's the whole point. This is just more fake news. Fake news on top of fake news. Sleight of hand to keep up the distractions from all of the progress Trump and America are making together.

The point is these ultraleft radicals think they are the ones to fix America. And by fix they mean totally break and rebuild in a completely different way, a way that is proven to be inferior and lead to catastrophically bad results like Venezuela and Obamacare and Detroit. And worse, with virtually unlimited immigration as their main big bright idea. America doesn't need that kind of "fixing". We could use some fine tuning to be sure and constant improvement is always welcome but we're not broken. And that's the point Trump is making. If they want to fix a country that way, with a complete overhaul, a top to bottom total rebuild, then they should go to some really broken countries and fix them instead. America doesn't need that kind of work. That actually softened his statement when he put that in there. He didn't say go back to where you came from. Or at least he didn't just say that. He said, and I'll paraphrase, that America isn't that bad, certainly not as bad as they are making it out to be, and if they want to fix a broken country they should look at the ones they (their ancestors) came from and fix those because we don't need that kind of work and they really do, badly.

I mentioned that Trump would tell a European or Canadian much the same thing except when it comes to that part of it referring to their broken countries I don't think anybody could really say any of those whiter countries are as bad off as some of the ones these people (meaning their parents or ancestors) fled so the exact same statement wouldn't really make as much sense. Is it racist that Beto's ancestral Ireland isn't nearly as bad off as Somalia? So it doesn't make much sense for Trump to tell Beto to go fix Ireland or to tell Pelosi to go fix Italy. Facts and reality aren't racist. They should be considered neutral. But to some there is in fact nothing more racist than facts and reality.

Seriati

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #52 on: July 17, 2019, 09:26:06 AM »
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But the problem here, is that he's largely correct, the progressive congresswomen do largely seem to hate the country they represent (which is a common failing on the left that sees every fault America has every made, but doesn't see the good).

This is such a load of crap, Seriati.

Criticism of policy or politicians doesn't equate to hate of country. That's a BIG LIE and you're a big fool if you believe it and repeat it.

I agree criticism of policy doesn't equate to hate of our country, lying about our country in a way that damages it (e.g., lying about concentration camps)?  Sure does.  Encouraging and supporting lawlessness and violence (sanctuary cities; perjury on asylum; standing down enforcement against antifa)?  Sure does.  Seeking to replace capitalism (which has increased wealth every where it's been tried) with socialism (which has generally destroyed wealth and led to suffering where-ever its been tried)?  Sure does.

The ONLY thing they seem to "love" about our country is that it's legal for them to hate it because we have strong rights around freedom of speech, but those same rights when applied in the other direction have got to go.  So do they really even love that?  Nope.

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All of this is to say that words matter, and can have consequences for safety.

For those who believe in “free speech”: whose free speech do you believe in?

Bc some folks using free speech to defend racism are also supporting folks passing laws to allow running over protesters.  from the tweets of AOC

D.W.

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #53 on: July 17, 2019, 09:28:36 AM »
Fake news?  This is a direct quote that he and his staff have defended...  If you are going to use that term in relation to opposition to Trump at least try and use it in a sensible manner.

Watching people defend Trump's statements as 'not what some seem to be reading/hearing' is like watching an episode of Ancient Aliens.

"Is it possible what he said wasn't blatant racism?  Absolutely!"  What he really meant was X, Y & Z. 

I get it.  You aren't going to kick this guy to the curb and replace him with someone else after 1 term and have a shot at winning the WH in 2020.  It's him or nothin and you're trapped.  The sooner you start acting like resigned prisoners without a choice instead of tying yourself in knots to deny reality the sooner you can save your party.

It may even work as the Democratic party seems to have its head up its ass or is overreacting to Trump's button pushing far too often for its own good.  Maybe you can fake it till you make it for another SC pick, then it's all worth holding your nose for, I guess.

As if we aren't witnessing the break down of America right this moment into something completely different.  I hope someone likes what is being built because it's going to take awhile to un*censored* it all.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2019, 09:30:37 AM by D.W. »

Seriati

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #54 on: July 17, 2019, 09:57:00 AM »
I think the fake news concept here is tied into how the news cycle acts.  I don't believe Trump is a racist, I don't think there is any objective basis to have such a belief.  Almost everything cited to is a lie or assertion that having a legitimate policy belief (such as on the border) is "proof" of racism.  That's my base.

It gets complicated with Trump because of his mouth.  He constantly says things that are completely offensive, and that can be construed or misconstrued as being racially insensitive.  In this case, I think he deliberately played on a meme/dog whistle to provoke a reaction that middle America may believe is unwarranted.  It's gospel truth on the left that "go back where you came from" is inherently racist.  For the rest of the world, there's nothing about it that is racist on its face, and for many it actually seems like a completely non-racist statement.  In fact, when you are listening to individuals who clearly think systems that fail in foreign countries are better, or clearly champion positions that aren't mainstream American it even makes sense - if you hate America and like x country better, you should just put your money where you mouth is and go there.

So Trump, with his words, gives his haters the tools to make the claims they want to believe are true, or more likely in my view, that they believe are damaging to assert - in other words - they see this as "proof" they can sell that Trump is racist.  Now why is it fake news?  Because the media is aware of the nuance, they're aware that Trump isn't really a racist, but they are completely desperate to tear him down and they think this is a powerful tool, so they ignore that and they run with Trump is a racist, and again it exposes them as hypocrites, Bill Clinton and Harry Reed have a conversation about Barack Obama getting them coffee, which is just as arguably racist - and would be seen as such if it were Trump and McConnell having the conversation - and it's just an unfortunate comment to be explained away, not a story about how they are racists. 

Biden actually says he found common ground to work with racists and opposed busing and he's not a racist, he just has some positions that he's refined.  Compare that to how far out of context they took Trump's quote about good people on both sides (of the statue debate) to mean that he thought there were good racists (which he specifically denied in they same speech). 

So what is the REAL news here?  Is it that Trump's a racist (that seems a fake story to me).  Or that Trump said something that seems racially insensitive, but that arguably isn't (much more likely to be true).  Or that Trump rightfully called out certain Congresswomen, who as a matter of policy seem to trade on hating America and a good chunk of Americans, whom they don't believe have legitimate views?  Which story did you hear?

It seems to me that the media has done a really good job of establishing that they are willing to lie about Trump being a racist, and that destroys their credibility to make this charge stick, especially when on its face it looks like they are overreacting.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2019, 10:00:12 AM by Seriati »

D.W.

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #55 on: July 17, 2019, 10:06:02 AM »
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It gets complicated with Trump because of his mouth.  He constantly says things that are completely offensive.  In this case, I think he deliberately played on a meme/dog whistle to provoke a reaction that middle America may believe is unwarranted.
If someone deliberately ACTS racist, or tries to entice racists to support him, does it really matter if it's a calculated ruse?  Not that calculation jives at all with the, unpolished public speaker excuse he often skates by on.

I don't see how it's "complicated" at all.

I also don't see how ANY level of opposition to the policies others are proposing excuse what he said and the way he's behaving. 

"they're aware that Trump isn't really a racist,"   Doubt's pretty much gone on this one.  So keep pushing your, criticism = hate for country.  That one at least may gain some traction.  It's BS, but it seems likely to sway some people.  The "he's not a racist" line is a joke.  Either he is, or he just 'plays one on TV'.  In which case, who gives a poop about the difference?  It's a danger to our country either way.

Seriati

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #56 on: July 17, 2019, 10:07:52 AM »
By the way, this is the kind of story that helps to undermine the media's credibility on declaring someone a racist.

https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/chris-pratt-gadsden-flag-white-supremacist-reaction

Seriati

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #57 on: July 17, 2019, 10:17:00 AM »
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It gets complicated with Trump because of his mouth.  He constantly says things that are completely offensive.  In this case, I think he deliberately played on a meme/dog whistle to provoke a reaction that middle America may believe is unwarranted.
If someone deliberately ACTS racist, or tries to entice racists to support him, does it really matter if it's a calculated ruse?

As far as I'm aware your question is nonsense.  There is noone, Trump included, 'acting racist' or trying to entice racists to support them (well other than the Democrats who openly appeal to racism to get support from minorities, but again we're supposed to pretend that them accusing black and hispanic republicans of being race traitors is not open and blatant racism).

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I don't see how it's "complicated" at all.

It's complicated because Trump's the one giving the left the words to make their public argument.  And again, they are clever words that trigger the left and seem non-racist to everyone else.  Is the left the arbiter of what is racist?  I don't believe that.  I believe they have taken it too far.  Declaring the Betsy Ross flag a symbol of racism?  A don't tread on me flag?  Heck the Yahoo article implied the Tea Party is racist - it's not.  And it's been asserted, even on here, that Republicans are inherently racist - they aren't.

The left is a bad judge.

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I also don't see how ANY level of opposition to the policies others are proposing excuse what he said and the way he's behaving.

There's never been an excuse for how Trump behaves.  That doesn't make him racist.

There's also no excuse for how those who oppose Trump are behaving (yet, we hear that excuse made all the time, in that Trump justifies whatever low they sink to).  So are we serious about what is "excused," or is it a Trump only rule?

There's no excuse at all for the way the media has lied.

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"they're aware that Trump isn't really a racist,"   Doubt's pretty much gone on this one.

Lol, I agree.  There is no doubt that Trump is not a racist.  His actually policies, in contrast to the questionable interpretation of his words, have been pro-black, pro-hispanic, pro-lower and middle class.  He's made life better for minorities in the country and actually materially increased their opportunities.  There's zero evidence that he's been a racist in business or his personal life.  Proven not to be a racist.

D.W.

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #58 on: July 17, 2019, 10:18:40 AM »
Your position on what is opinion and fact is noted.  Much like a scientific theory, we do not "prove" things with 100% certainty.  Even if the theory is shown to be accurate time after time.  It still remains a theory.

How do some people function in a world so full of "Fake" news and "Fake" science I wonder?

Seriati

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #59 on: July 17, 2019, 10:25:19 AM »
You don't have to wonder, we function with TDS and extremism, with people attacking pizza shops to break up pedophile rings, or trying to blow up an ICE facility after writing an Anti-Fa manifesto.  We operate by increasing our tribalism and holding to zero compromise lines.

If that's the world you like, keep feeding it.  If not engage your objective criticism and call out over reaction when it occurs, support actual compromises - demand them, call on your representatives to work with the Republicans or with the Democrats, depending on who they are, and tell them in no uncertain terms you will be supporting their opponents if they insist on always holding to the party line.

TheDrake

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #60 on: July 17, 2019, 11:54:24 AM »
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It appears he has doubled down on the statement since and at least to me, it sounded very "race neutral" to my ears. but "you guys" are off chasing bogeymen. Everything is racist for you and most Democrat elites, it's plain as day for all("Trump voters") to see.

Really that sounds neutral to you? Even though they actually came from the US, not from those "*censored*hole" countries he wants to deport them to?

Take the politics out of it. Picture yourself in a seven-11 and somebody tells a brown man to go back to where they came from. Are you really ok with that?

Seriati

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #61 on: July 17, 2019, 12:11:36 PM »
Take out the politics, picture yourself in a 7/11 and some tells a ranting white guy that if he doesn't like he should get out of the country.  Do you really have a problem with that?

This is why this particular point is tricky.  It's "clear" to the left its racism, it's "clear" to non-liberal elite, maybe even just the non-university professor elite, that telling someone to get out of the country doesn't have to be about race.

cherrypoptart

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #62 on: July 17, 2019, 12:15:06 PM »
If the guy is badmouthing America and constantly complaining and moaning about what a terrible evil place it is then it seems natural to suggest that maybe he'd like it better somewhere else. This didn't just come out of the blue. Some quotes from these women in question about America would be nice to have as a reference. How many are praise for America and how many trash talk our country?

And sure it's fine to criticize, but some people take it too far. And their suggestions for how to improve things would be calamitous. I saw a figure that AOC's Green New Deal would cost $600,000 per U.S. household. When confronted with that information AOC responded, "Huh, I actually thought, like, it'd be higher. And like totally, it's worth every penny! It's actually a bargain, cheaper than what we pay now when you factor in externalities. People often say, like, how are you going to pay for it and I find the question so puzzling because ‘How do you pay for something that’s more affordable? How do you pay for cheaper rent?’ You just pay for it,” she said. “We’re paying more now.” *

*Okay maybe not really but it wouldn't be a surprising reaction.

Conflating what Trump said with some skinhead walking up to a guy in a convenience store is taking it way out of context.

Crunch

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #63 on: July 17, 2019, 12:17:42 PM »
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It gets complicated with Trump because of his mouth.  He constantly says things that are completely offensive.  In this case, I think he deliberately played on a meme/dog whistle to provoke a reaction that middle America may believe is unwarranted.
If someone deliberately ACTS racist, or tries to entice racists to support him, does it really matter if it's a calculated ruse?  Not that calculation jives at all with the, unpolished public speaker excuse he often skates by on.

I don't see how it's "complicated" at all.

I also don't see how ANY level of opposition to the policies others are proposing excuse what he said and the way he's behaving. 

"they're aware that Trump isn't really a racist,"   Doubt's pretty much gone on this one.  So keep pushing your, criticism = hate for country.  That one at least may gain some traction.  It's BS, but it seems likely to sway some people.  The "he's not a racist" line is a joke.  Either he is, or he just 'plays one on TV'.  In which case, who gives a poop about the difference?  It's a danger to our country either way.

If Trump is a racist then he’s really bad at it. He’s done more to help minorities in the last 2 years than the previous 4 presidents combined.

D.W.

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #64 on: July 17, 2019, 12:17:45 PM »
So it IS accepted as an appropriate answer to a Jeopardy category of "Things a skinhead would say" but NOT if viewed in the context of Trump speaking out about those who criticize the policies of the GOP?

I think that clears it up nicely.

NobleHunter

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #65 on: July 17, 2019, 12:18:10 PM »
Take out the politics, picture yourself in a 7/11 and some tells a ranting white guy that if he doesn't like he should get out of the country.  Do you really have a problem with that?

This is why this particular point is tricky.  It's "clear" to the left its racism, it's "clear" to non-liberal elite, maybe even just the non-university professor elite, that telling someone to get out of the country doesn't have to be about race.

"Leave" and "go back where you came from" do not mean the same thing. It's easy to make something not-racist when you completely change what people say.

D.W.

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #66 on: July 17, 2019, 12:22:19 PM »
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Why don’t they go back and help fix the totally broken and crime infested places from which they came.
Source:  the totally not Fake News, twitter account strait from the person in question...

Seriati

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #67 on: July 17, 2019, 12:42:02 PM »
NH, that's a fair point, except my point isn't just about what the words say, its what people hear.  Everyone but the Native American in this country has some immigrant in them.  What's racist about telling a recent immigrant to adapt to our culture or go home?  Nothing really.

And D.W., please look back at my prior posts, where I specifically laid out what makes this "fake" is the spin.  Not just quoting the words but how the story is sold.  Trump is a racist, Clinton is not a racist he just said something he shouldn't.  There's no reason other that what you believe as a base about each person to treat them differently.  And what the left believes about Trump at the base has no actual foundation.

TheDeamon

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #68 on: July 17, 2019, 12:44:27 PM »
It gets complicated with Trump because of his mouth.  He constantly says things that are completely offensive, and that can be construed or misconstrued as being racially insensitive.  In this case, I think he deliberately played on a meme/dog whistle to provoke a reaction that middle America may believe is unwarranted.  It's gospel truth on the left that "go back where you came from" is inherently racist.  For the rest of the world, there's nothing about it that is racist on its face, and for many it actually seems like a completely non-racist statement.  In fact, when you are listening to individuals who clearly think systems that fail in foreign countries are better, or clearly champion positions that aren't mainstream American it even makes sense - if you hate America and like x country better, you should just put your money where you mouth is and go there.

I'm going to take a middle ground on this. "Go back where you came from" is often racially insensitive at best. Frequently racist at worst.

But there are uses that are more neutral or nuanced. Someone who has lived in Colorado for 40+ years telling a Californian to "go back where you came from" isn't meant to imply they(the California transplant) should "go back to their ethnic motherland" but should instead move back to California rather than trying to make Colorado into California 2.0 for example.

But context also matters. For the racist, "Go back where you came from" has a strongly implied "and don't come back" part attached. Something Trump actively countered by including a return criteria.

Which can take us to:

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It appears he has doubled down on the statement since and at least to me, it sounded very "race neutral" to my ears. but "you guys" are off chasing bogeymen. Everything is racist for you and most Democrat elites, it's plain as day for all("Trump voters") to see.

Really that sounds neutral to you? Even though they actually came from the US, not from those "*censored*hole" countries he wants to deport them to?

Take the politics out of it. Picture yourself in a seven-11 and somebody tells a brown man to go back to where they came from. Are you really ok with that?

Context matters, in most cases where it is encountered, it is not okay, and certainly is intended to be racist. But at the same time, that doesn't mean a non-racist usage is impossible. By the logic being used on Trump, there are a LOT of Black men who are White-Surpremacists, as much time as they spend throwing "the N-word" around, I mean, it's a word a Skinhead would use, that must mean they're all skinheads rights?

So Trump, with his words, gives his haters the tools to make the claims they want to believe are true, or more likely in my view, that they believe are damaging to assert - in other words - they see this as "proof" they can sell that Trump is racist.  Now why is it fake news?  Because the media is aware of the nuance, they're aware that Trump isn't really a racist, but they are completely desperate to tear him down and they think this is a powerful tool, so they ignore that and they run with Trump is a racist, and again it exposes them as hypocrites, Bill Clinton and Harry Reed have a conversation about Barack Obama getting them coffee, which is just as arguably racist - and would be seen as such if it were Trump and McConnell having the conversation - and it's just an unfortunate comment to be explained away, not a story about how they are racists.

Trump has become this generations ink blot test. That he's deliberately playing on "dog whistles" that the left has been parroting about for years makes it even more interesting to watch play out. Pavlov's Dog is alive and well to this day it seems.

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Biden actually says he found common ground to work with racists and opposed busing and he's not a racist, he just has some positions that he's refined.  Compare that to how far out of context they took Trump's quote about good people on both sides (of the statue debate) to mean that he thought there were good racists (which he specifically denied in they same speech).

I think the amount of criticism he received from the Democrats over that same item further helped cement a lot of future voters behind the Republican Party for 2020. They twisted Biden's words around like a pretzel, used it to attack him, but at the same time also demonstrated that the favored Approach of many Democrats in the current crop of "rising powers" have an approach to resolving problems which is very un-American, and very non-viable in the long term for anybody who has much in terms of life experience. Amazingly enough, Biden was right about something, and the Democrats ran him over the coals for daring to say such a thing.

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So what is the REAL news here?  Is it that Trump's a racist (that seems a fake story to me).  Or that Trump said something that seems racially insensitive, but that arguably isn't (much more likely to be true).  Or that Trump rightfully called out certain Congresswomen, who as a matter of policy seem to trade on hating America and a good chunk of Americans, whom they don't believe have legitimate views?  Which story did you hear?

I heard a repeat of the story from 2016, people voted for Trump then because they felt the Democratic Party was heading down a path where people could not speak plainly about certain things "because it had racial undertones" associated with them, for fear of the social(and possibly legal) costs of doing so. They've seen the fears of Social costs writ large since then, but because Trump's the one in Office right now, they don't need to fear the legal aspect, for now.

They'll be voting in 2020 to make sure it stays that way. When simple truths cannot be spoken "because that's racist!" the ability to have any meaningful dialogue on how to move forward is impossible. But as the Democrats seems to make everything racist, it appears the time for dialogue is not happening anytime in the foreseeable future.

D.W.

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #69 on: July 17, 2019, 12:46:32 PM »
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Trump is a racist, Clinton is not a racist he just said something he shouldn't.
Have I ever been one to defend "MY side" when they do terrible *censored*?  Maybe I do and just don't notice?  Otherwise, the what-about-ism never persuades me.

You want someone to concede the media has its darlings and its villains?  Consider it done.  If that excuses everything else, then all I can say is I'm disappointed. 

NobleHunter

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #70 on: July 17, 2019, 12:55:53 PM »
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Context matters, in most cases where it is encountered, it is not okay, and certainly is intended to be racist. But at the same time, that doesn't mean a non-racist usage is impossible. By the logic being used on Trump, there are a LOT of Black men who are White-Surpremacists, as much time as they spend throwing "the N-word" around, I mean, it's a word a Skinhead would use, that must mean they're all skinheads rights?

In this context, Trump was telling mostly American-born Representatives to go back to the countries they came from. That's *censored*ing racist.

Seriati

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #71 on: July 17, 2019, 01:12:30 PM »
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Trump is a racist, Clinton is not a racist he just said something he shouldn't.
Have I ever been one to defend "MY side" when they do terrible *censored*?  Maybe I do and just don't notice?  Otherwise, the what-about-ism never persuades me.

It's not whataboutism, which is about justifying or distracting.  That's a point that specifically goes to credibility.  The media/left interpretation of what is racist is not credible, and that's getting worse not better for middle America when there are obvious contradictions that can be easily demonstrated.

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You want someone to concede the media has its darlings and its villains?  Consider it done.  If that excuses everything else, then all I can say is I'm disappointed.

It excuses nothing.  It does however mean that media saying Trump is racist has no value in determining if Trump is racist.  Ergo this whole thread's point, and its very title, boils down to nonsense.  It's an assertion without merit.

D.W.

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #72 on: July 17, 2019, 01:43:56 PM »
I cannot respond further at present without saying things I don't think I could take back.  As someone who respects the other posters here even when I disagree vehemently with their political positions, I don't think I have anything further to say right now.

Seriati

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #73 on: July 17, 2019, 01:47:47 PM »
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We will speak...with the authority that comes with the strength of knowing out of many come one, and that's who we are. And he needs to go back to where he came from.

Kamala Harris

Is this racist too?  Directed at Trump, as a response to his comments.  Seems totally fine to me, which again just proves that the words themselves are not an inherent racist signal.

NobleHunter

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #74 on: July 17, 2019, 01:54:23 PM »
Where do you think Harris is telling Trump to go?

And I'm pretty sure my question implies a rude answer which Harris' statement doesn't seem to. Keep that in mind when making absolute statements about what words mean what.

TheDrake

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #75 on: July 17, 2019, 02:57:25 PM »
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We will speak...with the authority that comes with the strength of knowing out of many come one, and that's who we are. And he needs to go back to where he came from.

Kamala Harris

Is this racist too?  Directed at Trump, as a response to his comments.  Seems totally fine to me, which again just proves that the words themselves are not an inherent racist signal.

If he had ONLY said go back where you came from, rather than expanding on that by making it clear he meant the country their families came from, it could have been fine. It could have meant leaving DC for their home town, or going back to their reality TV show or something else entirely.

Let's recap his full quote, since a refresher seems in order.

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“Why don’t they go back and help fix the totally broken and crime infested places from which they came. Then come back and show us how​ it is done​,” he continued. “​These places need your help badly, you can’t leave fast enough. I’m sure that Nancy Pelosi would be very happy to quickly work out free travel arrangements!​”

Go ahead and try and make that equivalent to anything Harris has ever said.

TheDrake

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #76 on: July 17, 2019, 03:05:47 PM »
Take out the politics, picture yourself in a 7/11 and some tells a ranting white guy that if he doesn't like he should get out of the country.  Do you really have a problem with that?

This is why this particular point is tricky.  It's "clear" to the left its racism, it's "clear" to non-liberal elite, maybe even just the non-university professor elite, that telling someone to get out of the country doesn't have to be about race.

Honestly, the "love it or leave it" argument has always irked me. Even when it isn't particularly racist. It's Archie Bunker talk (and his character was most definitely a racist, even though he wasn't going to commit or condone hate crimes against minorities).

Wayward Son

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #77 on: July 17, 2019, 03:24:27 PM »
No matter how anyone tries to spin in, when you tell a minority to "go back to where you came from," you are telling them that they are not Americans, that they are foreigners, and that you don't want them here.  That, since the person is not white, they must be from somewhere else, and belong there.  That is racism, pure and simple.  Maybe not as bad as those who want to hang or deport minorities, maybe not as bad as those who would forbid marriages between races and keep them separate, but it's still solidly racist.

Trump is a racist.  It is now indisputable.  Get over it.

All these excuses, all these explanations and qualifications and denials, all this pretending that someone is lying to you, all those do is enable him and racists like him.  All you are doing is letting racists, better than him or as bad as him or worse than him, know that you will accept them, embrace them, call them friend, so long as you get what you want.  You are standing tall with racists.  You are calling for dividing America into real Americans and those who are not, based on race and ethnicity and skin color and politics.  You are helping these people turn our country back into the racist pit it was in the past, where a gang of whites could drive out an entire town of blacks when they felt like it.  Is this really what you want to do?

And for what?  Another Supreme Court justice?  More tax breaks that are increasing the deficit?  Protection from those vicious women and children from "sh*thole" countries?  Is the price for your decency and integrity really that low?

Republicans used to denigrate Democrats for not being smart, for having no integrity, for supporting Bill Clinton who cheated on his wife.  Now no Republican cares.  Trump married three times, sleeping with other women?  Who cares.  Mitch McConnell lying through his teeth about a "Senate tradition" to let the next President choose a Supreme court nominee?  Why, everyone lies.  Trump telling a Latina, a Muslim, and a Black American to go back to where they came from?  Why, THAT'S WHAT AMERICA STANDS FOR!  ::)

There is no place left to hide anymore.  The Supreme Court recently said that the Trump Administration lied to them about the reason for the citizenship question to be added to the census.  There have been more appointees by the President to resign or get booted out because of corruption than any other recent Administration that I can recall.  And we know the President lies to us, openly, blatantly, unabashedly.  It's time to admit that this President and his Administration are a disaster.  It's time to stand up for American values.

Or stand firm with the racist.  It's your choice.

Seriati

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #78 on: July 17, 2019, 03:28:09 PM »
Yeah, no Wayward.  Trump is not a racist.  Prove it by demonstrating any actions that he's taking that are racist.  You can't argue with the fact that he's making life better for American citizens of minority descent so you're going to pretend that he said magic words that let you declare the motives in his soul.  Not buying it.

Meanwhile, I'm going to continue to call out the left's open racism.  It's just a fact that if you don't call it out you are standing with racists.  What fun, now we're all standing accused of standing with racists, except my accusation is more credible than yours.  :P

DonaldD

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #79 on: July 17, 2019, 03:39:08 PM »
Nobody is calling you a racist because your partisan blinders don't allow you to evaluate Trump's statements, Seriati. Morally corrupt, foolish, yes.  Racist - not yet.

As for his actions, they go back decades. Discrimination in housing.  The Central Park 5.  Birtherism.  And it's not like this is Trump's first foray into racist wording: Mexican rapists. S**thole countries.  "Why don’t they go back and help fix the totally broken and crime infested places (read: s**thole countries) from which they came"
« Last Edit: July 17, 2019, 03:42:07 PM by DonaldD »

TheDeamon

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #80 on: July 17, 2019, 03:40:14 PM »
Yeah, no Wayward.  Trump is not a racist.  Prove it by demonstrating any actions that he's taking that are racist.  You can't argue with the fact that he's making life better for American citizens of minority descent so you're going to pretend that he said magic words that let you declare the motives in his soul.  Not buying it.

Meanwhile, I'm going to continue to call out the left's open racism.  It's just a fact that if you don't call it out you are standing with racists.  What fun, now we're all standing accused of standing with racists, except my accusation is more credible than yours.  :P

I've pretty much decided that short of a shooting war breaking out(or nearly doing so), no meaningful discourse in regards to racism or race relations is likely to happen to in the next 20 to 30 years at a minimum. If anything, things are going to get worse in the interim.

Which is quite sad. It's better to make jaw-jaw than war-war, but jaw-jaw is pointless at this point, people are more interested in talking points and shutting down meaningful discussions than pull their heads out of their ass. The only thing that's likely to fix that is for everyone involved to get old and die so another generation can try to fix it, or for both sides to end up staring down the barrel of a gun.

D.W.

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #81 on: July 17, 2019, 03:44:20 PM »
I ridiculously (in retrospect) believed we were further ahead than in any point of my lifetime when Obama won.  Apparently all it meant was the pendulum was being pulled back for a bigger swing the other direction than I thought to ever see.

I hope yer wrong TheDaemon.  A lot can change (in shorter time than that), hopefully for the better. 

Also, is the irony of the MAGA slogan just lost on everyone when it comes to people being condemned for "hating America" when they point out its faults?

TheDrake

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #82 on: July 17, 2019, 03:52:52 PM »
There's prejudice, and there's discrimination. Both are racism. It doesn't really matter if his policies are helping people of color, or even if they disproportionately help people of color more than the average citizen. You are still prejudiced against the "towelheads" or anyone else who doesn't conform to your idea of what an American should look and act like.

Do you seriously think that Trump would tell Beto to go back where he came from? Or Pelosi? Or Rosie O'Donnell? Or any other white nemesis?

Is it possible that he's just trying to think of the most hurtful thing he can say, and that in this case he came up with this idea.

Meanwhile, what Donald said. There are plenty of overt acts to consider in addition to his words. And what words there are.

Quote
“The only guys I want counting my money are short guys that wear yarmulkes all day,” he reportedly said. The black accountant, he said, was lazy, but it was “probably not his fault, because laziness is a trait in blacks.”

If a job applicant said something like that, are you going to hire him? If it was a friend of yours, would you chuckle and clap him on the back?

Wayward Son

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #83 on: July 17, 2019, 03:57:32 PM »
Only for those who find you more credible than me, Seriati.  And I think that is starting to wear thin.

Exactly what has Trump actually done to make life better for minorities?  Been President during a up-turning economy?  What did he do to make the economy turn up?  Cut taxes?  He didn't do that; Congress did.  He didn't help them at all.  What else did he do?  What else?

And what exactly do you have to "do" to prove you believe minorities to be second-class citizens and not real Americans, or even real people?  What actions would you consider to be racist that the President could do?  Call blacks "n*gg*rs?"  What would it take?

He's supported making it harder for minorities to vote.  He's called immigrants from brown-skinned countries rapists and murderers.  He's separated families of immigrants on thin pretexts, hoped that it would discourage people from coming here, and then blamed Democrats for it all. 

For more evidence, see one of Trump's latest tweets.

Quote
Omar is polling at 8%, Cortez at 21%. Nancy Pelosi tried to push them away, but now they are forever wedded to the Democrat Party. See you in 2020!

Three guesses which demographic has Omar polling at 8% and Cortez at 21%.  (And the first two don't count.)  The constituents of their respective districts? Every American, nationally? No, neither of those.  Ever wonder why he would think that that particular demographic speaks for all of America? ;)

Democrats are racists, too.  We all are, to some extent.  But most of us recognize it, and have enough common sense not to let it affect our words and judgement too much.  But Trump doesn't.  He's letting minorities know that he doesn't consider them equal to him and his tribe.  If he didn't know to stop before now, what makes you think he'll have sense to stop on worse matters?

Trump is a liar, a fool and a racist.  You may think it worse for me to stand with the party that wants to make this country more equal and fair, but you will still have to take responsibility for those you stand with, whether you recognize who they are or not.

cherrypoptart

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #84 on: July 17, 2019, 04:04:38 PM »
Thanks to Sean Hannity for the reminder of our racist former Vice-President's racist comment that, "You cannot go to a 7-Eleven or a Dunkin' Donuts unless you have a slight Indian accent. I'm not joking."

Also from freebeacon.com: Biden falsely boasted that Delaware was a slave state to explain why he would remain competitive in southern primaries.

"You don’t know my state. My state was a slave state … my state is the 8th largest black population in the country," he said."

The vice president decided to practice that accent (Indian) on the campaign trail in 2012. In a speech criticizing Mitt Romney for outsourcing, Biden donned an Indian accent to mock the notion of Indians trying to speak English.

"How many times you get the call, ‘I like to talk to you about your … credit card," he said, abandoning the mock accent. "It’s a little over done."

----------------------------------

So how many headlines did we see about our racist Vice President? "Racist Vice President Biden... blah blah blah". None. Zip. Zilch. Nada.

cherrypoptart

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #85 on: July 17, 2019, 04:11:01 PM »
“The only guys I want counting my money are short guys that wear yarmulkes all day,” he reportedly said. The black accountant, he said, was lazy, but it was “probably not his fault, because laziness is a trait in blacks.”

Now THAT is definitely racist. So if you thought I had no line that's wrong. That definitely crosses the line by a long ways.

Reportedly said though. Reportedly, Trump also raped a girl when she was only 13. Reportedly, Trump colluded with Russia to steal the election from Hillary who stole it fair and square from Bernie. But if Trump really did say that, that's definitely a racist thing to say.

D.W.

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #86 on: July 17, 2019, 04:17:13 PM »
Even if there was a recording it would either be, taken out of context as he was really just parodying that position, and meant the exact opposite.  Or maybe "fake news" would be turned to deep-fakes.  (A legitimate counter that may soon be the standard for any unfortunate leaks)

ScottF

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #87 on: July 17, 2019, 04:31:15 PM »
There's prejudice, and there's discrimination. Both are racism.

Right. Everything is racism.

If you saw a group of preppy white kids walking down the street together, you would most likely have preconceived ideas about their behaviors, attitudes, etc. Unless you thought of them as inferior/unequal humans, you would be exhibiting prejudice but not racism, see?

Works exactly the same if you copy/replace with "latino gang-banger looking kids" or "black inner-city looking kids". Prejudicial? Yes. Racist? Also possible, but not they are not synonymous at all.

Today's actual racists must be absolutely loving the cover they get from all manner of stupid behavior being classified as racist by default.

TheDrake

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #88 on: July 17, 2019, 04:36:52 PM »
When confronted with that quote, Trump said in an interview that the account (from a former employee) was probably true. He later turned around and denied it.

As for Biden, he already doesn't have my support. And by the way, there was quite the uproar recently when he bragged about his great working relationship with segregationist senators not to mention being attacked for his record on busing. On the other hand, he also had a body of work to eliminate racial disparity, including the Voting Rights Act.

DonaldD

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #89 on: July 17, 2019, 04:39:20 PM »
When Richard Spencer characterizes your tweet as racist...

ScottF

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #90 on: July 17, 2019, 04:46:27 PM »
Nobody is calling you a racist because your partisan blinders don't allow you to evaluate Trump's statements, Seriati. Morally corrupt, foolish, yes.  Racist - not yet.

Lol, love the ominous "not yet" here. Be careful Seriati - your inner thoughts are walking a fine, potentially racist line. DonaldD will let you know if and when you cross it.

DonaldD

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #91 on: July 17, 2019, 04:48:51 PM »
No, I was pointing out that "nobody" had yet done so - I cannot control what silly things other people might say in the future (as an example, see your preceding post, ScottF)

ScottF

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #92 on: July 17, 2019, 05:34:22 PM »
No, I was pointing out that "nobody" had yet done so - I cannot control what silly things other people might say in the future (as an example, see your preceding post, ScottF)

My bad, I assumed like the royal we, you were referring to the royal nobody - seeing as "nobody" had called him morally corrupt either. Or were you referring to your own actual opinion for that part?
« Last Edit: July 17, 2019, 05:36:37 PM by ScottF »

TheDeamon

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #93 on: July 17, 2019, 05:45:03 PM »
I ridiculously (in retrospect) believed we were further ahead than in any point of my lifetime when Obama won.  Apparently all it meant was the pendulum was being pulled back for a bigger swing the other direction than I thought to ever see.

I hope yer wrong TheDaemon.  A lot can change (in shorter time than that), hopefully for the better.
 

It could change, but there are too many entrenched power elite that are too invested in what is going on right now, and sadly there's a new generation threatening within the Democratic side of things to keep things at status-quo for another 50 years. Through "good intentions" of course.

Obama's presidency was a squandered opportunity, in more ways than one, and Obama shares a fair bit of that blame.

Quote
Also, is the irony of the MAGA slogan just lost on everyone when it comes to people being condemned for "hating America" when they point out its faults?

I have issues with MAGA as an expression myself, but it isn't for the reasons most left-wits have with it. America has never been about having "achieved perfection" America has always been about striving for a better life, for ourselves and those around us. The problem in play now is the left-wits are entirely "me centric" while complaining about power elites that are likewise very self-focused themselves.

But the left-wing "solution" is likely to only make things worse, as it ends up feeding into the worst traits of humanity rather than its best.

The Republican/Corporate side is a stinking turd as well, but at least their option doesn't crash the economy into a brick wall in the process.

TheDrake

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #94 on: July 17, 2019, 05:50:58 PM »
Quote
Works exactly the same if you copy/replace with "latino gang-banger looking kids" or "black inner-city looking kids". Prejudicial? Yes. Racist? Also possible, but not they are not synonymous at all.


Is it the same? It's when you have the suspicious attitude about the black kids in preppy clothes and ignore the white kids wearing their pants around their thighs that you're in trouble.

You can also say something racist and not be a card carrying proud boy. When you're called on it, apologize and try to do better. Not double down and whine about how the world has gone crazy and you don't dare open your mouth.


ScottF

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #95 on: July 17, 2019, 05:55:42 PM »
Quote

It's when you have the suspicious attitude about the black kids in preppy clothes and ignore the white kids wearing their pants around their thighs that you're in trouble.

We agree.

Quote

You can also say something racist and not be a card carrying proud boy. When you're called on it, apologize and try to do better. Not double down and whine about how the world has gone crazy and you don't dare open your mouth.

Without getting into their validity, today's apologies act like chum in the water for the outraged.

Crunch

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #96 on: July 17, 2019, 06:14:39 PM »
Or stand firm with the racist.  It's your choice.

 We live in Orwellian times when those supporting racial segregation call others racist. You realize that calling people a racist no longer has any meaning, right? When people from the party of Robert Byrd and Ralph Northam call others a racist, it means literally nothing.

So call everyone a racist. It’s just your virtue signaling

TheDrake

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #97 on: July 17, 2019, 06:22:49 PM »
Quote

It's when you have the suspicious attitude about the black kids in preppy clothes and ignore the white kids wearing their pants around their thighs that you're in trouble.

We agree.

Quote

You can also say something racist and not be a card carrying proud boy. When you're called on it, apologize and try to do better. Not double down and whine about how the world has gone crazy and you don't dare open your mouth.

Without getting into their validity, today's apologies act like chum in the water for the outraged.

Sincerity is important. Trump has never been capable of a sincere apology.

Pete at Home

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #98 on: July 17, 2019, 06:25:13 PM »
Quote

It's when you have the suspicious attitude about the black kids in preppy clothes and ignore the white kids wearing their pants around their thighs that you're in trouble.

We agree.

Quote

You can also say something racist and not be a card carrying proud boy. When you're called on it, apologize and try to do better. Not double down and whine about how the world has gone crazy and you don't dare open your mouth.

Without getting into their validity, today's apologies act like chum in the water for the outraged.

Sincerity is important. Trump has never been capable of a sincere apology.

How did he ever get elected? Oh year; he ran against Mrs Telltale Smirk.

ScottF

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #99 on: July 17, 2019, 07:12:41 PM »
A recent poll shows the majority of Mexican citizens support deporting Central Americans coming through their country. It appears Trump's racist white nationalism is spreading.