Author Topic: Our Racist President  (Read 76525 times)

TheDrake

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #100 on: July 17, 2019, 08:10:31 PM »
A recent poll shows the majority of Mexican citizens support deporting Central Americans coming through their country. It appears Trump's racist white nationalism is spreading.

 ::)

Seriati

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #101 on: July 18, 2019, 10:23:51 AM »
No matter how anyone tries to spin in, when you tell a minority to "go back to where you came from," you are telling them that they are not Americans, that they are foreigners, and that you don't want them here.  That, since the person is not white, they must be from somewhere else, and belong there.  That is racism, pure and simple.

It's about the failure of the melting pot.  American is an ideal not a skin color.  If you don't share the ideals, which I don't think any of the "squad" really do, you are not really American.  Ilhan Omar, is a flat out anti-semite who stands for equating America to terrorism.  Ayanna Pressley is a straight up racist and her quote about not needing any more brown faces that don't want to be brown voices proves it, to her you are only valuable for your color and only if you agree with her.  Tlaib's got a view point that comes from her Palenstinian roots that includes lies about the history of Israel.  And AOC, what is part of American exceptionalism that she doesn't hate?

They don't share the ideals of a liberal democracy, they have no tolerance for divirgent views.  They have no ability to reach compromises, and they'd rather leave children to die at the border than actually provide funding to help the situation.  Effectively, their "support" is contingent on eliminating the entirity of our immigration laws - an extreme fringe position.  I mean just yesterday, AOC tried to defend being labelled communist (which as accurate description of her) because that has a long history of links to white supremacy.  It's the only card they know, and yes, I don't think they believe in American values.  They are the stereotypical group that believes in Democracy until they are in power, and then that there's no more need for voting.

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Maybe not as bad as those who want to hang or deport minorities,

Hang OR deport?   Are you listening to yourself?  Deporting is in the law. PERIOD.  Wanting people deported is a completely legitimate position.

I'm not aware of anyone, that is advocating for hanging people.  But hey, in the days' of the internet you can always find a troll, to pretend like a despicable strawman was a reasonable response.

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maybe not as bad as those who would forbid marriages between races and keep them separate, but it's still solidly racist.

Forbidding marriages?  Lol, that is racist.  Why you digging things that have been settled for 50 years (settled by the way by the application of the "racist" US legal system that's done more to bring social justice to minorities than any other system in the entirety of history).

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Trump is a racist.  It is now indisputable.  Get over it.

Yeah no.  You're not an impartial arbiter.  All you are doing is repeating your confirmation bias.  Face it, Trump played you and the rest of the woke again.

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All these excuses, all these explanations and qualifications and denials, all this pretending that someone is lying to you, all those do is enable him and racists like him.

Enable "racists" like Trump to do what exactly?  Directly improve the lives of the minorities in the country?  True he has, bringing more jobs and more real wage increases to them, ensuring that the tax code was revised to provide a tax benefit to every lower class tax payer notwithstanding the lies.  Reforming an unfair prison system put in place by the Democratic President Bill Clinton?  Yep, did that too.  Actually focusing attention on a border situation that is insane that harms the ethnic hispanic immigrants who come (they are a minority here, but not by much, but a majority where they come from)?  Yep doing that too, notwithstanding the "good guys" consistently advocating for ignoring the law, consistently encouraging economic migrants to lie about asylum and to risk their lives (some of which have lost them).  Does it bother you that the pictures of the "abuse" of the Trump program have consistently been shown to pictures under Obama?  Pretty much proof that the "caring" "non-racist" left does not care about Brown people other than as a political point.

I have zero tolerance for claiming the high horse when you consistently support policies that have a real racist effect.  That undermine economic success for minorities.  That shut down minority voices that aren't "Democratic party approved as authentic."  So calling people who are making real differences racists, when the other party routinely spreads misery is the ultimate in form over substance.

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You are standing tall with racists.

Have you condemned Pressley, she's an honest to goodness racist, she only sees color and not the real people behind it. 

I'm standing with people who's actions demonstrate they are working to make life better for all Americans without regard to race.  Or do you have some evidence of a Trump policy that is racist or harming minorities that you've kept in the vest?  Why would you do that?

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You are calling for dividing America into real Americans and those who are not, based on race and ethnicity and skin color and politics.

Based on politics only, and then only a limited set.  The rest is just a lie. 

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You are helping these people turn our country back into the racist pit it was in the past, where a gang of whites could drive out an entire town of blacks when they felt like it.  Is this really what you want to do?

Actually you are the one "helping" by refusing to look at real people and real impacts, but only paying attention to dog whistles, triggers and ultimately endorsing seeing people as derivative of the color of their skin.  Identity politics are racist, and they are at the open core of what it means to be a Progressive today.  There's no "high minded" exception, there's no "you mean well" exemption, if you think race is the most important characteristic rather than beliefs you're following a racist path into irrelevancies.

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And for what?  Another Supreme Court justice?

For the Rule of law.  Name me the "swing" liberal justice.  I'll wait.

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More tax breaks that are increasing the deficit?

And far more growth than the Obama subsidies, which also increased the deficit.  I'm not a fan of the deficit, for the obvious reasons of the potential harm it could cause.  But there's no easy fix, and at the end of the day, Pyrtolin was correct on the point about what money is and that debt is ultimately a fiction (it's just a fiction that we wouldn't survive being pierced).

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Protection from those vicious women and children from "sh*thole" countries?

Lol, are they not sh*thole countries?  Great to hear, I guess we can deny all asylum claims from people that originated from them.  Oh wait, now they are sh*thole countries and there's a credible threat?  Consistency not a strong point today is it.

Fact is people are fleeing these countries because they are a mess, almost all of them economically, and many of them politically.  How is that at all inconsistent with what was said?  Answer its not, you're just harping on a sound bite without carrying any water on analysis.    There is no part of the Democratic position on this that holds together as logically consistent.

And when you have representatives advocating we adopt the policies that turned them into sh*thole countries?  Yeah, they are unAmerican.

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Is the price for your decency and integrity really that low?

No my decency and integrity require that I point out your nonsense, even in the face of what you believer are clear wins.  I already acknowledged that what Trump said is pretty defined as racist by the Woke, and pointed out to you that to the rest of the country it looks pretty reasonable on its face.  The power to play on the discomfort that people feel discussing race, because they don't want to get labelled with the racism charge, from which there is no defense, is being deliberately challenged by Trump.

That's the problem with being in a woke bubble, you have been reinforced into believing there is no longer any question on some topics.  Don't believe me, do you recall how stunned everyone living in a left bubble was on election night in 2016?

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Republicans used to denigrate Democrats for not being smart, for having no integrity, for supporting Bill Clinton who cheated on his wife.  Now no Republican cares.  Trump married three times, sleeping with other women?  Who cares.

I agree, you won that fight.  The left hammered the point, the media hammered the point, and ultimately the teachers taught the point.  Why are you stunned about this 2 decades later?   Lol.  But even those that do care, and there are many, still have to make a choice between 2 people for President and the Democrats almost never put up someone who can credibly win the moral fight or that will commit to the positions that those voters care about.

Once again you seem to be calling for the otherside to vote against their own interests out of disgust.  And there's a reason you do that, to my knowledge only the Republicans ever vote against their own interests as a matter of principal (Exhibit A, Roy Moore - not elected, Exhibit B, Bob Menendez - re-elected).

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Mitch McConnell lying through his teeth about a "Senate tradition" to let the next President choose a Supreme court nominee?  Why, everyone lies.

I agree there was no such tradition, though good ole Joe Biden certainly gave it cover.  And so what?  All your angst on this complete crap, there's no chance that the Democrats would not have done the same.  I mean heck the Senate has tied up certain Trump appointments for more than 2 years out of sheer spite, and I don't see a word of complaint of you.

Yet calling me out for a Supreme Court nominee interest, and then revealing your own fixation on it, doesn't cause you to blink an eye.  So like wow on your laundry list of things that "only Trump would do" (or the Democats would have done and will do, but you would have and will cheer it on, because you know "good guys and all").

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Trump telling a Latina, a Muslim, and a Black American to go back to where they came from?  Why, THAT'S WHAT AMERICA STANDS FOR!  ::)

Trump telling a group of anti-semitic, anti-American, communists that happen to be Congresswomen to go back where they came from?  I don't think he gives two shakes about their ethnicity.

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There is no place left to hide anymore.  The Supreme Court recently said that the Trump Administration lied to them about the reason for the citizenship question to be added to the census.

The SC said it was within the executive discretion to do it but they have to provide a legitimate reason.  As you can't retroactively provide a reason, as know one would believe that was the real reason, they had to decide based on the reason that was provided, which they found insufficient.  Given 6 more months, the question would be on the census.

So congratulations, your side established the legality of the question, and managed to "win" the day on a technical argument.  So I guess in the left's world view losing on the principal but achieving the result is pretty much all that they care about.

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There have been more appointees by the President to resign or get booted out because of corruption than any other recent Administration that I can recall.

There has been more outsiders brought in and malicious scrutiny than with any President in history.  People resigning because your side has harassed their families to the point they feel unsafe is nothing to be proud of.

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And we know the President lies to us, openly, blatantly, unabashedly.

And we know the media mischaraterizes things with which they disagree as lies falsely.  I find the vast majority of Trump's "lies" to be media BS or immaterial.

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It's time to admit that this President and his Administration are a disaster.  It's time to stand up for American values.

It's time to admit that this President has gotten a lot of good done, and would have done more but for the deliberate obstruction of the left.

So yes, stand up for American values.

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Or stand firm with the racist.  It's your choice.

I'll keep supporting the President whose actions have been good, rather than make the horrible decision to switch to supporting open racists on the left with horrible policies.  Will you stop standing up with racists just because they use pretty words?

Seriati

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #102 on: July 18, 2019, 10:44:52 AM »
Nobody is calling you a racist because your partisan blinders don't allow you to evaluate Trump's statements, Seriati. Morally corrupt, foolish, yes.  Racist - not yet.

Nah you're wrong there.  In Woke world Wayward is essentially setting up a purity test, with an implicit Kafka trap.  Any answer but agreeing Trump is a racist and denouncing him means you are a racist  too.  Coudn't think of a way to solidify more people behind Trump than to call them racists for positions they believe are reasonable.  But hey, I don't think the same way a Woke person does.

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As for his actions, they go back decades. Discrimination in housing.

I presume you're talking about the suits in the early seventies, when he was in his early 20's and was named President of his father's real estate company.  There's some truth to the idea that the Company discriminated, of course that's hopelessly muddled when you apply to a racist belief of the Trumps.  At that time, white flight was a real phenomenum, and most of the people that rented were open or latent racists.  It would have been bad business to be non-discriminatory, that's why we had to pass the fair housing act in 1968, because anyone that didn't want to discriminate would have lost money as their rents tanked. 

I mean you have Trump's father lying about his German roots in the 1940s because a large number of his tenants were Jewish.  I think you can accurately and correctly believe that the Trump's did what was best for business.  But sure if you want to pull it out of context and pretend like everyone else was a good person and what they are accused of wasn't effectively the rule and good business, go ahead.

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The Central Park 5.

I'm still befuddled at why this strikes people as racist.  Hugely public story, in NYC, everyone everywhere in the country, let alone big whigs in NY was outraged.  It's not like the prosecutors weren't convinced they had the right guys.  I think too people are often skeptical when people are let off years later and believe that it was a technicality not innocence that changed the verdict.

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Birtherism.

Beaten to death, legitimate point to question in light of his relatives claims he was born in Kenya.  I'm still baffled by everyone who thinks showing tax returns should be mandatory but a birth certificate shouldn't when the later is in the Constitution.

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And it's not like this is Trump's first foray into racist wording: Mexican rapists.

Which the media manipulation created the controversy.  Unless you're asserting that contrary to fact the open border hasn't been repeatedly crossed by criminal elements.

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S**thole countries.

See above, they are.

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"Why don’t they go back and help fix the totally broken and crime infested places (read: s**thole countries) from which they came"

If they think those systems are so superior, since they are advocating adopting them here, why not go show us they can work by fixing the places they've been tried.

Again, legitimate policy question couched in Work-triggering dialectic.

rightleft22

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #103 on: July 18, 2019, 10:46:03 AM »
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It's about the failure of the melting pot.  American is an ideal not a skin color.  If you don't share the ideals, which I don't think any of the "squad" really do, you are not really American.

So when Trump was campaigning and complaining about America he's a patriot because his ideals match... what? yours? When these woman campaign and get elected on how they see those ideals there not really American.... A nation built on challenging the status quo. Woman that just happen to be of different ethnic race.

Trump by his and your reasoning could say the same thing about Bernie Sanders. Why not call him out? Why not tell him go leave and go back to where he came from.

I'm sorry but these arguments being put up to defend the Character of Trump makes me sick.  I get why people support his policies but not why they defend his character. Plato must be rolling around in his grave.

Trump latest rally was disgusting. Trump spends very little time talking policies for him its all personal rhetoric much of which centers on a persons race. Trump usess race to decide and create hate and that makes him a racist

Trump is a raciest.  And Shame on you and shame on everyone


NobleHunter

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #104 on: July 18, 2019, 10:50:39 AM »
If Trump said tomorrow, "N****** b****** should stop telling me what to do," certain people would say, "Trump was actually expressing solidarity with black rap and hip hop musicians and their frustration with opinionated women. You're the real racist for condemning Trump's attempt to reach out to a black community."

Seriati

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #105 on: July 18, 2019, 11:00:33 AM »
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It's about the failure of the melting pot.  American is an ideal not a skin color.  If you don't share the ideals, which I don't think any of the "squad" really do, you are not really American.

So when Trump was campaigning and complaining about America he's a patriot because his ideals match... what? yours? When these woman campaign and get elected on how they see those ideals there not really American.... A nation built on challenging the status quo. Woman that just happen to be of different ethnic race.

I don't think their race is happenstance.  Why do you think Pressely made that statement about brown faces, brown voices.  The left only accepts minority voices that parrot the most radical dependency dialectic available. 

Success, can't be allowed because it disproves the victimhood dialectic that is needed for political success.

Depedency on government, has to be lauded and the stigma removed because the permanent dependent class is the left's political power.

School choice, even where it demonstrably achieves better results for minorities, has to be barred because it infringes on the teacher's union.  Wait, what?  That's anti-minority, how did that slip in?  Oh yeah, because the left trades minority issues as political capital and focuses on enforcing voting behavior by dependency.  And hey this helps to undermine minority success and that also protects the voting base.

How about $15 minimum wage?  Yes, lets put the bottom end of the American citizen working class out of work, win/win - more dependency, and now since the work still needs done, we create under the table low wage jobs for the illegal immigrants who also are going to help us generate votes.  Got to protect counting them on the census to maximise our voting power.  More suffering for poor Americans, more opportunity to give them handouts and create voting dependency.

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Trump by his and your reasoning could say the same thing about Bernie Sanders. Why not call him out? Why not tell him go leave and go back to where he came from.

Trump will be happy to call out Bernie, as soon as he becomes the best target.  In the meantime, I'd suggest he doesn't have enough sway.   

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I'm sorry but these arguments being put up to defend the Character of Trump makes me sick.  I get why people support his policies but not why they defend his character. Plato must be rolling around in his grave.

I think you're missing the point.  I'm not defending his character.  I'm challenging lies about it.  Trump is not a high character guy.  But I've seen nothing to make me think he's pursuing racist policies and a heck of a lot to make me think he's pursuing policies that are great for minorities.

In fact, he's done so well on that point, I'm expecting that he'll actually make inroads on the black vote and possibly even segments of the hispanic vote.  He's no dummy, he knows that if he can create wedges in those groups the Dems are done, and unlike the Dems who are tied to policies intended to hurt those people while couched in the language of helping, he's able to pursue policies that really help them.  If he can connect the facts of life getting better to his policies the Dems will be in for a real bad night on election day (and the Dems are only going to stop that by lying, like they always have, about the economy, about taxes, about whatever they need to say).

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Trump latest rally was disgusting. Trump spends very little time talking policies for him its all personal rhetoric much of which centers on a persons race. Trump usess race to decide and create hate and that makes him a racist

I've still never watched a rally, but every time, EVERY TIME I've gone to a transcript I've found the media version to be false.

If you want me to buy the racist label, simple challenge, walk me through the racist policies he's pursuing (don't even try with border security, there's nothing racist about a position the majority of the country wants enforced).

rightleft22

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #106 on: July 18, 2019, 11:41:27 AM »
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If you want me to buy the racist label, simple challenge, walk me through the racist policies he's pursuing (don't even try with border security, there's nothing racist about a position the majority of the country wants enforced

First I didn't label you a racist. I do think we all should be ashamed and I stand by that.

Is your argument that a president can only be a racist is there policies being pursued can identified and labeled as racist? I assume a majority would have to agree on that.
This is where we disagree as I think a person words matter as much and perhaps more then just their actions. Trump continues to attack, not a persons policies, but their identity, appearance and race. Trump uses race to fire up his base.

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I've still never watched a rally, but every time, EVERY TIME I've gone to a transcript I've found the media version to be false.
You need to watch one. The words and the how the words are recived, I don't know. How he gets people willing to stand behind him... gross.

I was only able to handle 10 minutes of his rally most of which was personal attracts on the 'other'.  (The majority of trumps tweets are negative other then the one praising himself. That's who he is.  Trump divides, its the source of much of his power. The the main tool that his uses to divide is race. To me that makes him a racist.

And I don't get why anyone would defend that.       

rightleft22

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #107 on: July 18, 2019, 12:00:26 PM »
I can't separate the policy from the man.
His type of rhetoric and racism always ends up in people getting hurt

TheDrake

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #108 on: July 18, 2019, 12:04:36 PM »
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Got to protect counting them on the census to maximise our voting power.  More suffering for poor Americans, more opportunity to give them handouts and create voting dependency.

You realize that the law dictates all people be counted, not just citizens, right? When you are talking about the allocation of dollars in particular, expenses by a district or state scale according to the number of people unless you choose to deny any services including first response. I know some people would love that.

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I've still never watched a rally, but every time, EVERY TIME I've gone to a transcript I've found the media version to be false.

Meaning they actually quoted him incorrectly, or that you personally find the portion that they chose to be misleading? It isn't false if they are his words in the transcript.

TheDeamon

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #109 on: July 18, 2019, 12:21:23 PM »
It isn't false if they are his words in the transcript.

Doesn't mean false narratives cannot be built up around certain words in a given transcript while selectively ignoring the rest of the context in which the statement was made.

"Russia, if you're listening"

"There were good people on both sides"

To name two off-hand. But then, we've seen the partisan divide on that already as well.

Seriati

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #110 on: July 18, 2019, 12:40:48 PM »
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If you want me to buy the racist label, simple challenge, walk me through the racist policies he's pursuing (don't even try with border security, there's nothing racist about a position the majority of the country wants enforced

First I didn't label you a racist. I do think we all should be ashamed and I stand by that.

I didn't think you did, my comment was about buying the label of racist as applied to Trump.

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Is your argument that a president can only be a racist is there policies being pursued can identified and labeled as racist?

Not at all.  My argument is twofold, (1) I don't believe he has a personal racial animus (and apparently neither do many of the people that have known and worked with him over the years); and (2) that actions speak louder than words.  If his policies have the deliberate effect of making things better for racial minorities, which they do, if they reflect listening to said minorities and acting on the issues that they are concerned about, and that have been ignored in some cases for decades, then I'm finding it a very hard sale that he's acting out of racism.  What is he the racist that deliberately acts against his racist desires?   How is this "racism" working here?

No what I see is that charging some with being a racist, in the ordinary course, is tantamount to destroying them without any possibility of defense.  And the left is so desparate to destroy him that's what they are doing.

Hence my challenge, show me his racist actions as President, or I'm going to rely on actions (pro-minority) being louder than words.  I apply the same rule to the left, and consistently find them to say pretty things then deliberately act against the interests of the same people they claim to represent.  In effect, they are asking minorities to vote against the real improvements in their life that Trump has delivered, to go back to the false promises the left has always made and the "caring" they emote.

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This is where we disagree as I think a person words matter as much and perhaps more then just their actions. Trump continues to attack, not a persons policies, but their identity, appearance and race. Trump uses race to fire up his base.

A persons words do matter, and Trump's use of personal insults is beyond uncouth.  It also is probably the only reason he's been able to trip up the media and the establishment simultaneously and actually achieve things.

I know that's an ends justifies the means argument, which I'm typically loathe to endorse, but at least here the means are just distasteful and not the full on illegal that Democratic and establishment Republicans usually use.

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Trump divides, its the source of much of his power. The the main tool that his uses to divide is race. To me that makes him a racist.

Except that's not a tool Trump invented, it's literally the entire source of the Democrat party's strength.  They are nothing without identity politics, and demanding people be their color not themselves.  I mean, how many prominent women wrote that a women who doesn't vote for Hillary is a traitor to their gender?  That was commonly accepted and not condemned and at its very core and root that is a completely sexist position that should be unacceptable to any thinking person.

The left has gotten so convinced of its own purity of thought and belief that they've gone right out the otherside into open endorsement of racist and sexist beliefs as relevant and acceptable to the discourse, even preferable to non-racist and non-sexist beliefs.

Trump makes them see red, for the same reason they make me see red, he's playing with their tool box.

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And I don't get why anyone would defend that.

Because, just as Wayward did, he conflates Trump being repugnant, with anyone supporting policies that are best for the country which Trump happens to support as being repugnant.  It's an intellectually bankrupt argument.  It's direct corrallary to "David Duke supports X, therefore if you support X you're a racist."  David Duke is always going to pick a candidate, that doesn't say a damn thing about that candidate or anyone else that supports them.

The correllation is never made the otherway.  Felons overwhelming vote for Democrats therefore anyone who supports a Democrat is a felon in waiting.  Is that legit?

Not at all.

So to me, I'm not conceding that I have to drop support for a President who's doing what's best for the country and allow anti-American fools to take over, just because the President is personally repugnant, anymore than anyone had to vote against Bill Clinton's second term after his flaws were revealed. 

Again, convince me that Trump is pursuing racist policies and you've made a valid political argument.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2019, 12:44:56 PM by Seriati »

rightleft22

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #111 on: July 18, 2019, 12:52:02 PM »
I guess were just going to have to disagree on this.  Your argument strikes my a hypocritical however I'm not a good enough communicator to express why. The whole thing about the left identity politics being racist I don't know. It's not a argument that to my mind that excuses Trump.
But ok the left is racists so the right gets to be racist. Shame on us all. 

As I said I can't separate the man from the policy so can't argue that Trump is pursuing racist policies. Words matter.   

TheDrake

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #112 on: July 18, 2019, 12:54:19 PM »
It was never the fact that Duke supported Trump that was an issue. Duke has voiced support for other politicians also.

For instance, Tulsi Gabbard (D). This is what Duke said:

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“Tulsi Gabbard in 2020. Finally a candidate for President who will really put America First?” he tweeted, linking to an article about President Trump’s recent proposal to keep troops in Iraq. Gabbard, an Iraq war veteran, is a staunch opponent of military interventionism.

Response to an earlier endorsement from Duke (yeah, he supported Gabbard in 2016 also).

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“U didn't know I'm Polynesian/Cauc? Dad couldn't use 'whites only' water fountain. No thanks. Ur white nationalism is pure evil,” she tweeted at the time.

He didn't get in front of it in the same way, as we all remember. He had to be badgered into finally saying "All right, I disavow, OK?" in a very eye-rolling kind of way. You can attribute this to having an inexperienced campaign team, or to racism, or to a self-serving nod to racists in order to get their votes so he can put all those fun policies in place.

DonaldD

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #113 on: July 18, 2019, 01:03:22 PM »
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It's direct corrallary to "David Duke supports X, therefore if you support X you're a racist."  David Duke is always going to pick a candidate, that doesn't say a damn thing about that candidate or anyone else that supports them.

The correllation is never made the otherway.  Felons overwhelming vote for Democrats therefore anyone who supports a Democrat is a felon in waiting.  Is that legit?
You're conflating so many things that it's hard to know where to begin.  What we have here are groups of avowed racists lauding the president for making a racist statement.  Are you suggesting that groups of felons routinely laud Democrats specifically for their felonious activities?  No?  Then the analogy fails. Or are you suggesting that the self-identifying racists are lying when they characterize Trump's statement as being racist?

DJQuag

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #114 on: July 18, 2019, 03:37:46 PM »
Take out the politics, picture yourself in a 7/11 and some tells a ranting white guy that if he doesn't like he should get out of the country.  Do you really have a problem with that?

This is why this particular point is tricky.  It's "clear" to the left its racism, it's "clear" to non-liberal elite, maybe even just the non-university professor elite, that telling someone to get out of the country doesn't have to be about race.

Sorry, I've decided to reply as I go down the thread.

Literally no one is going to tell a white dude in a 7/11 to go back to where they came from. Ever. Come on.

Is there a long history of racists in this country telling blacks and Hispanics and whoever else to go back to their country? You better believe it. It's, like, a go too line. It is said every single day in the US in a completely racist fashion against American citizens. Do you actually deny this?

I don't care if you're claiming Trump was too frigging stupid to understand what he was saying. What he said was racist based upon how his followers heard it and how minorities heard it. It was a racist statement. As was that chant.

So choose a side. The man is racist or he's too stupid to understand or have read basic attacks against minorities in the last century or so.

Including, like the Mooch said, Italians, Germans, and Irish, who were all told to go back to their country.


TheDeamon

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #116 on: July 18, 2019, 04:00:38 PM »
Literally no one is going to tell a white dude in a 7/11 to go back to where they came from. Ever. Come on.

Well, unless they say they're from California and wish things were more like Cali where they are. They'll be asked to go back.

DJQuag

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #117 on: July 18, 2019, 04:39:00 PM »
That never happens, DJQuag... oh, wait:

My friend, I too have read things too fast and or/made snap analyses of written pieces.

I would ask you go back and read what I wrote.  Your quotes back up a very large part of what I wrote.

Unless you mean me saying a white person wouldn't be asked to go back where they came from in the 2010's is supported by your links of racist people saying that to Hispanics speaking Spanish?

DonaldD

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #118 on: July 18, 2019, 04:41:23 PM »
That was irony...  ;)

DJQuag

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #119 on: July 18, 2019, 05:21:28 PM »
That was irony...  ;)

And on this day I got thoroughly whooshed.

Wayward Son

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #120 on: July 18, 2019, 06:41:10 PM »
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How did he ever get elected? Oh yeah; he ran against Mrs Telltale Smirk.

If that were true, Pete, how is it that the next Democratic presidential candidate is going to be even worse than Hillary, in spite of the fact that no one knows who that person is going to be yet? ;)

No, people actually love Trump and what he believes/stands for, if only for hating Democrats in general. :(

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If you don't share the ideals, which I don't think any of the "squad" really do, you are not really American.

You mean ideals like the fact we are all Americans, not just those who are white?  That we are a nation of immigrants, all with as much right to be here as the next guy?

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lhan Omar, is a flat out anti-semite who stands for equating America to terrorism.  Ayanna Pressley is a straight up racist and her quote about not needing any more brown faces that don't want to be brown voices proves it, to her you are only valuable for your color and only if you agree with her.  Tlaib's got a view point that comes from her Palenstinian roots that includes lies about the history of Israel.  And AOC, what is part of American exceptionalism that she doesn't hate?

If you gave them as much of the benefit of the doubt as you give Trump and the Republicans, you’d know that’s all BS.

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Hang OR deport?   Are you listening to yourself?  Deporting is in the law. PERIOD.  Wanting people deported is a completely legitimate position.

I said “hang or deport minorities,” Seriati.  Not illegal immigrants. Why do you think you missed that?  Why do you mistake minorities for illegal immigrants?  Is it something about the rhetoric coming from the top?  Something about demonizing all foreigners, and now their children?  Because, after all, no one from some foreign country can have our values and culture.  And that’s what’s important, isn’t it?
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Face it, Trump played you and the rest of the woke again.

No, Trump has finally made clear what his real face is.  Now it’s just a matter of making you wake up to it.
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True he has, bringing more jobs and more real wage increases to them, ensuring that the tax code was revised to provide a tax benefit to every lower class tax payer notwithstanding the lies.  Reforming an unfair prison system put in place by the Democratic President Bill Clinton?  Yep, did that too.  Actually focusing attention on a border situation that is insane that harms the ethnic hispanic immigrants who come (they are a minority here, but not by much, but a majority where they come from)?

Trump’s policies have done little to nothing to help the economy, except perhaps to supercharge it with that stupid corporate tax cut, which will bite us in the behind come the next recession. The benefits to the “lower class taxpayers” are temporary and barely significant.
I’ll give you the bipartisan prison system reform.  He never campaigned on it, but at least he didn’t veto it.
Tell me again how characterizing illegal Mexican immigrants as rapists and murderers is helping Hispanics in our country.  Ask you Hispanic friends (since you obviously are not one) how many times someone has told them to go back to Mexico after Trump came into office?  How they feel about ICE raids, threatened and actual?  Ask them if they feel more secure, more welcome in this country now?  You might learn something.
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Have you condemned Pressley, she's an honest to goodness racist, she only sees color and not the real people behind it.
You realize that it doesn’t matter if I’m really David Duke trying to fake you all out.  That’s doesn’t change the fact that Trump is a racist.  He’s a racist because he told a bunch of minority American citizens, Congresswomen no less, to go back to where they came from.  It’s what racists say.
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Or do you have some evidence of a Trump policy that is racist or harming minorities that you've kept in the vest?
No, so far he hasn’t implement or tried to implement any overtly racist policy, except for separating illegal immigrant children from their parents for no good reason.  I doubt Congress would have approved an overtly racist policy.  But his words…ah, his words…
He may not do anything overtly racist, except with his words.  But covertly?  Like maybe make it harder for minorities to vote?  Like maybe say that the votes from minorities were all illegal, implying that they are all illegals?   
You think he’s going to stop here?  You think he’s not going to escalate?  Listen to his rally last night.  His followers were chanting, “Send her home!  Send her home!”  A week ago, the thought never occurred to most of them.  Now they’ve internalized it.  Now it’s their desire, their belief.  To exile American citizens because they disagree with their politics, to those brown, black and Muslim “sh*thole” countries that are so much worse than anything here.
You think, with all these people cheering him on, inflating his ego for showing them who to hate and which American values to trample, that he’s going to pull back now?  You think this narcissist won’t double down after hearing all those cheers?
Maybe he hasn’t crossed the line for you yet.  But he hasn’t finished crossing lines yet.
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Name me the "swing" liberal justice.  I'll wait.
Cute meme.  How can you have a swing liberal, when the courts are demonstrably far more conservative than they were 40 years ago?  Mathematically, in order to be in the center of this SCOTUS, you have to be on the conservative side.
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Lol, are they not sh*thole countries?  Great to hear, I guess we can deny all asylum claims from people that originated from them.  Oh wait, now they are sh*thole countries and there's a credible threat?  Consistency not a strong point today is it.

Fact is people are fleeing these countries because they are a mess, almost all of them economically, and many of them politically.  How is that at all inconsistent with what was said?  Answer its not, you're just harping on a sound bite without carrying any water on analysis.    There is no part of the Democratic position on this that holds together as logically consistent.
Of course these countries are messes.  So is ours, if you’d bother to look, rather than try to make it worse.
It’s the “vicious women and children” part that was important in that sentence.  That Republicans are so stupid and timorous that they treat women and children as invading armies.  Cowards.
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I already acknowledged that what Trump said is pretty defined as racist by the Woke, and pointed out to you that to the rest of the country it looks pretty reasonable on its face.
That’s because the “rest of the country” is stupid.  Telling a minority to “go back to your country” has been acknowledged as a racist remark for years.  It’s specifically mentioned as an example of racist behavior in government instructions to managers.  It only “looks” reasonable if it doesn’t apply to you.  Telling a white person from West Virginia to “go back to your country” is laughable; they’re already in “their” country.  Telling a black person to “go back to your country” is telling them they should go back to Africa, that they aren’t really part of this country.  The correct response to this remark that looks pretty reasonable on its face is “Go f**k yourself, I’m just as American as you, if not more so!”
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Don't believe me, do you recall how stunned everyone living in a left bubble was on election night in 2016?
Don’t believe you.  I read FiveThirtyEight just before election night.  They estimated Trump had about a 25% chance of winning.  I’ve played enough D&D to know how good those odds were. :(
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Once again you seem to be calling for the otherside to vote against their own interests out of disgust.  And there's a reason you do that, to my knowledge only the Republicans ever vote against their own interests as a matter of principal (Exhibit A, Roy Moore - not elected, Exhibit B, Bob Menendez - re-elected).
No, I don’t want the other side to vote against their own interests.  I want them to stop acting so morally superior and admit that they have no morals other than their own selfish interests.
Let me remind you that Moore only barely lost that election, 50% to 48%.  600,000 Alabama Republicans thought their own interests trumped the charges against him.  We’ll see if he has better luck this next time.
And I’ll see your Menendez with Rep. Duncan Hunter, Jr., who won handily against his opponent (after smearing him) despite being up on charges and blaming it all on his wife. :)
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All your angst on this complete crap, there's no chance that the Democrats would not have done the same.
What a load of crap.  No matter what Republicans do, you can excuse it because the Democrat would have done it, too?  I suppose you use that excuse to defend Rep. Dennis Hastert and justify what he did with his student when he was a coach: “There’s no chance that the Democrats would not have done the same.” :p
And, BTW, as I recall, the last time a similar situation occurred, the Democrats did let the nomination go through.
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Trump telling a group of anti-semitic, anti-American, communists that happen to be Congresswomen to go back where they came from?  I don't think he gives two shakes about their ethnicity.
Pff.  Have you ever heard someone use that against a white, except in retaliation?  It doesn’t make sense.  It only makes sense if you assume they are “from” somewhere else.  And what criteria do you think he used to assume that other than race?
The Congresswomen should have responded as any white guy would have: “I am where I came from, you dumb ***.” :)

Oh, well, it’s been fun, but I’ve wasted enough time on this. Later.

TheDeamon

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #121 on: July 18, 2019, 07:25:09 PM »
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Hang OR deport?   Are you listening to yourself?  Deporting is in the law. PERIOD.  Wanting people deported is a completely legitimate position.

I said “hang or deport minorities,” Seriati.  Not illegal immigrants. Why do you think you missed that?  Why do you mistake minorities for illegal immigrants?  Is it something about the rhetoric coming from the top?  Something about demonizing all foreigners, and now their children?  Because, after all, no one from some foreign country can have our values and culture.  And that’s what’s important, isn’t it?

I'll confess I read things much the same way Seriati did on the first pass.

You need to remember that there now is a built in "translation" that happens often times when Conservatives hear liberals start talking about minorities and deportation where it automatically gets changed to "illegal immigrant" because left-wing activists have deliberately conflated the two things for over a decade now.

You're not a left-wing activist, so that's clearly a misfire on that thought process. But it didn't come from a place where the underlying assumption was that all minorities are illegal immigrants. It came from a place of activists trying to scare legal minorities into believing ICE might come and deport them too. Which is certainly something you were playing on with that statement, deliberately or not.

Haven't gone through the rest of the post yet, but felt this one needed special attention.

TheDrake

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #122 on: July 18, 2019, 07:52:40 PM »
Ice raids. You do realize that we have deported people with a legal right to be in the country, and it took a judge to order them returned, right?

Seriati

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #123 on: July 18, 2019, 09:27:15 PM »
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How did he ever get elected? Oh yeah; he ran against Mrs Telltale Smirk.

If that were true, Pete, how is it that the next Democratic presidential candidate is going to be even worse than Hillary, in spite of the fact that no one knows who that person is going to be yet? ;)

For the same reason the Dems nominated Kerry when they thought there was no way they could lose to Bush for a second term.  The strategists honestly believe that they'd be "wasting" an opportunity to move the country starkly to the left when they have a gift of an incumbent President who can't win.

Honestly, I'm not sure he can win.  His base is rock solid, I mean beyond what you've seen before, but he offends so many people that there will be a lot of passion.

But if the left puts up a socialist, then they are going to have a whole lot of older voters (who vote in higher numbers) stay home.

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No, people actually love Trump and what he believes/stands for, if only for hating Democrats in general. :(

People love what Trump has done.  We don't agree about what he "stands for."

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If you don't share the ideals, which I don't think any of the "squad" really do, you are not really American.

You mean ideals like the fact we are all Americans, not just those who are white?  That we are a nation of immigrants, all with as much right to be here as the next guy?

No, I mean the American dream, the belief in American exceptionalism. A belief in capitalism and the ability to get ahead with hard work.  I mean freedom of speech that means even bad people can say what they want because we believe that the best defense is to expose ideas not suppress them.  A belief that someone is innocent until proven guilty - in a legitimate process, not just a "I really want them to be guilty so they are."  A belief that all people are equal, not that some are extra special.

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If you gave them as much of the benefit of the doubt as you give Trump and the Republicans, you’d know that’s all BS.

In fairness, I'm happy to give them the benefit of the doubt, just not on a thread called "Our Racist President."  You picked the terms for the thread, i.e. stark and uncompromising, not me.

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Hang OR deport?   Are you listening to yourself?  Deporting is in the law. PERIOD.  Wanting people deported is a completely legitimate position.

I said “hang or deport minorities,” Seriati.  Not illegal immigrants. Why do you think you missed that?  Why do you mistake minorities for illegal immigrants?  Is it something about the rhetoric coming from the top?  Something about demonizing all foreigners, and now their children?  Because, after all, no one from some foreign country can have our values and culture.  And that’s what’s important, isn’t it?

Wow.  I guess I "missed" that you think there are people that want to "hang or deport" minorities.  It's certainly not Trump, or me or the Republicans, so who the ***** are you talking about?

I read comment in the only sensible way I could interpret it.  No one can deport a US citizen, period end of story.  No one is supporting any crazy ***** that advocates lynching minorities. 

In fact, I'm more offended now that you clarified.

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Face it, Trump played you and the rest of the woke again.

No, Trump has finally made clear what his real face is.  Now it’s just a matter of making you wake up to it.

Triggered.

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Trump’s policies have done little to nothing to help the economy, except perhaps to supercharge it with that stupid corporate tax cut, which will bite us in the behind come the next recession. The benefits to the “lower class taxpayers” are temporary and barely significant.
I’ll give you the bipartisan prison system reform.  He never campaigned on it, but at least he didn’t veto it.

Soft lies are the worst.  Bipartisan prison reform only happened because the Whitehouse made a real effort to push it.  Do some research, and quit just accepting that good only comes from one side.

And I love how you "dismiss" real wage growth (which Obama couldn't deliver), historic levels of unemployment, whole hearted support for development in opportunity zones, and real money in the pockets from tax cuts.  It's the most hypocritical thing yet, if a Democratic President did even one of those, you'd want xe up on Mt. Rushmore.

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Tell me again how characterizing illegal Mexican immigrants as rapists and murderers is helping Hispanics in our country.

Tell me again how lying about an actual quote is helping people in our country?  What's the matter, what he really said too hard to use?

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Ask you Hispanic friends (since you obviously are not one) how many times someone has told them to go back to Mexico after Trump came into office?  How they feel about ICE raids, threatened and actual?  Ask them if they feel more secure, more welcome in this country now?  You might learn something.

I'll ask my Hispanic relatives (who've not mentioned a darn thing), is that good enough?

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Have you condemned Pressley, she's an honest to goodness racist, she only sees color and not the real people behind it.
You realize that it doesn’t matter if I’m really David Duke trying to fake you all out.  That’s doesn’t change the fact that Trump is a racist.

So do as I say, not as I do.  Give up legitimate policies because I declare a politician a racist, but my policies are inherently good notwithstanding racist support.

No thanks Wayward.  Must be nice to live the unexamined life.

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He’s a racist because he told a bunch of minority American citizens, Congresswomen no less, to go back to where they came from.  It’s what racists say.

Lol.  Yep.  You know what else racists say?  "Can you make that a Venti?"  "I'd like the wax as well please."

Granted I'm being silly there, but I've already walked through that what you hear and what middle America hears on this may not be same thing.  Don't know why I bother though, I think it may be better if you just stay in your bubble till after the election.

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Or do you have some evidence of a Trump policy that is racist or harming minorities that you've kept in the vest?
No, so far he hasn’t implement or tried to implement any overtly racist policy, except for separating illegal immigrant children from their parents for no good reason.

That's a surprising admission.  No racist policies.  I'm adding that to no collusion, no obstruction, lol.

And by "no good reason" you mean doing it because the law prohibits holding children in custody but that parents should be held in custody, pretty much exactly the same way a citizen parent that is arrested is separated from their children?   Or did I miss a law change that puts children of citizens in prison or requires their parents be released?

Again, you have staked a position that is unreasonable on its face, and only gotten there because you've twisted the view of reality so far that something that is reasonable becomes unconscionable, and completely ignored that the primary reason so many people are showing up with kids (a historical anomoly) is because your own leaders have set the conditions to give them a priority access to the illegal immigration lottery if they do.  It's so obvious that coyotes are coaching people on risking their children's lives, sometimes even renting out their children to do so.

But hey I'm the bad person after you support a system that abuses children and costs them their lives for political capital. 

Not seeing Wayward.

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I doubt Congress would have approved an overtly racist policy.  But his words…ah, his words…
He may not do anything overtly racist, except with his words.  But covertly?  Like maybe make it harder for minorities to vote?  Like maybe say that the votes from minorities were all illegal, implying that they are all illegals?

Lol.  I read that there are no studies that support the idea that minority voters are significantly suppressed by voter registration laws.  What's up "party of science"?  lol. 

Makes a great sound bite even if it is a lie.

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Name me the "swing" liberal justice.  I'll wait.
Cute meme.  How can you have a swing liberal, when the courts are demonstrably far more conservative than they were 40 years ago?  Mathematically, in order to be in the center of this SCOTUS, you have to be on the conservative side.

Lol.  In other words no.  There is no Democrat appointee that is a swing Justice.  The only reason we have 5-4 splits in the numbers we do is that Democratic appointees routinely vote to ignore the actual law and pursue their policy goals.

I said it before, and I'm not alone, I have zero interest in any conservative activist judges.  My interest is in Justices that apply the law.  Why is that a radical idea to you?  Why do you want social justice warriors to be appointed as non-elected philosopher kings?

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Of course these countries are messes.  So is ours, if you’d bother to look, rather than try to make it worse.

Our country is not a mess, our people are.  And there's 350 million reasons for that.

You don't have to believe in an aspirational concept of American exceptionalism, to recognize as a factual matter that America is exceptional.  We have an illegal immigration problem for a reason.

So yes we can always be better, in the same the New England Patriots can "always be better" or US women's Soccer can "always be better."

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It’s the “vicious women and children” part that was important in that sentence.  That Republicans are so stupid and timorous that they treat women and children as invading armies.  Cowards.

It's really not the important part of the sentence.  It's the part you want to be important because it tugs on the heart strings rather than the logic centers.   I'm not a fan of argument by passion without sense.

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I already acknowledged that what Trump said is pretty defined as racist by the Woke, and pointed out to you that to the rest of the country it looks pretty reasonable on its face.
That’s because the “rest of the country” is stupid.

Love that you said that.  So what?  You going to campaign on "deplorables" or tell them they are clinging to their religion and their guns.

You're just doubling down on what the country already knows, you hold them in contempt.  Great electoral strategy.

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Telling a minority to “go back to your country” has been acknowledged as a racist remark for years.

Telling a European immigrant to go back your country has been done for years.  Is it racist?  Not that I'm aware.  Again, feel free to grab common concepts and label them racist.  Keep going please, the country would be better with a Republican House.

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It’s specifically mentioned as an example of racist behavior in government instructions to managers.  It only “looks” reasonable if it doesn’t apply to you.

Look, let's be honest I don't even disagree in principal.  I'd never use the phrase myself, but I've had training and thought through a lot of issues related to inadvertant offense.   But you're delusional if you think this is playing to the voters in the middle of the country.

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Don't believe me, do you recall how stunned everyone living in a left bubble was on election night in 2016?
Don’t believe you.  I read FiveThirtyEight just before election night.  They estimated Trump had about a 25% chance of winning.  I’ve played enough D&D to know how good those odds were. :(

Except they were wrong.  He didn't have 25% of winning it just appeared that way based on their metrics.  By the night before the election, his odds of winning were probably 95% or he wouldn't actually have won.  Think it through and let that reality play out in your nightmares.

Whatever they were considering, was literally that far off.

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No, I don’t want the other side to vote against their own interests.  I want them to stop acting so morally superior and admit that they have no morals other than their own selfish interests.

In today's world the one's on the highest horses are those on the left.  No one but the religious fanatics cares about the "moral majority" who were never a majority.  So what I hear when you say that is that you don't want to be challenged.

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Let me remind you that Moore only barely lost that election, 50% to 48%.  600,000 Alabama Republicans thought their own interests trumped the charges against him.  We’ll see if he has better luck this next time.

Yeah in a state where Republicans out number Democrats by more than 50% to around 30%.

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And I’ll see your Menendez with Rep. Duncan Hunter, Jr., who won handily against his opponent (after smearing him) despite being up on charges and blaming it all on his wife. :)

Keith Ellison.

In any event, not a parallel than the 2 I offered, and not a response to why it was okay for the Democrats to put Menedez back in when the Republicans did the right thing and kept Moore out.

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All your angst on this complete crap, there's no chance that the Democrats would not have done the same.
What a load of crap.  No matter what Republicans do, you can excuse it because the Democrat would have done it, too?

Did I excuse it?  Nope just called you out on your fake agnst.  You have no principals here, or you'd have called out the fact that there is no chance now, nor was there then that the Democrats wouldn't have done the same thing.  It's not even worth pretending.  We both know they would have, and that you'd have blindly defending it with the same level of righteousness you are asserting now.

By the way, you can literally go back and look at the real time threads on this board where I said that Merrick deserved a vote.

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I suppose you use that excuse to defend Rep. Dennis Hastert and justify what he did with his student when he was a coach: “There’s no chance that the Democrats would not have done the same.” :p

No idea what you're talking about.  And not interested enough to look it up.

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And, BTW, as I recall, the last time a similar situation occurred, the Democrats did let the nomination go through.

The last time.  You sure about that.  Dems have slow walked every single nomination of this Administration no matter how petty or how critical.  Or did you mean something from GWB or even before?

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Trump telling a group of anti-semitic, anti-American, communists that happen to be Congresswomen to go back where they came from?  I don't think he gives two shakes about their ethnicity.
Pff.  Have you ever heard someone use that against a white, except in retaliation?

Yes, and far more than against non-whites.  Maybe you don't hang out with any Europeans, but they can be truly obnoxious about their beliefs about what America does that is inferior to back home.

I don't actually hang with racists though so maybe this is more common than I think.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2019, 09:36:41 PM by Seriati »

DonaldD

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #124 on: July 19, 2019, 06:50:01 AM »
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I don't actually hang with racists though so maybe this is more common than I think.
There's an argument to be made that, if this thread is anything to go by, you might not realize that you were hanging with racists.

TheDrake

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #125 on: July 19, 2019, 07:18:21 AM »
Tl;dr
But which part of free speech is the Huac that you seem to want to bring back?

Crunch

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #126 on: July 19, 2019, 07:23:41 AM »
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I don't actually hang with racists though so maybe this is more common than I think.
There's an argument to be made that, if this thread is anything to go by, you might not realize that you were hanging with racists.

Sure, I mean, are they white?  Then they’re racist. Amiright?

DonaldD

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #127 on: July 19, 2019, 09:02:11 AM »
Why do you assume Seriati and his acquaintances are white, Crunch?

I know it is easier to ignore the arguments people make and build straw men to make yourself feel better about not being able to defend your own positions...

TheDeamon

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #128 on: July 19, 2019, 12:40:42 PM »
Tl;dr
But which part of free speech is the Huac that you seem to want to bring back?

Who needs the HUAC when we you have the Racism and Bigotry Police ready to curbstomp anyone who even appears to step a toe out of line?

Even "better" because the above mentioned people are on high alert for "secret racists" and "secret bigots" as well.

Edit: on further thought, the modern analog to the HUAC are the activist arms of the Democratic Party at this point. Complete with black lists, prosecutions seeeking to destroy people simply for being "associated with the wrong people" and so on.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2019, 12:47:08 PM by TheDeamon »

TheDrake

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #129 on: July 19, 2019, 12:46:34 PM »
Tl;dr
But which part of free speech is the Huac that you seem to want to bring back?

Who needs the HUAC when we you have the Racism and Bigotry Police ready to curbstomp anyone who even appears to step a toe out of line?

Even "better" because the above mentioned people are on high alert for "secret racists" and "secret bigots" as well.

So disapproval is curb stomping now? The difference, if I must spell it out, is subpoena versus public pressure to not be a giant racist ass.

TheDeamon

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #130 on: July 19, 2019, 12:50:44 PM »
Tl;dr
But which part of free speech is the Huac that you seem to want to bring back?

Who needs the HUAC when we you have the Racism and Bigotry Police ready to curbstomp anyone who even appears to step a toe out of line?

Even "better" because the above mentioned people are on high alert for "secret racists" and "secret bigots" as well.

So disapproval is curb stomping now? The difference, if I must spell it out, is subpoena versus public pressure to not be a giant racist ass.

Be careful, there are communistsracists and bigots among us, and you may not even realize it. We must not wait to remove threat of communisimracism from our great nation. We need to take bold and decisive action to address this matter urgently, and treat all allegations as the serious matter that they are.

Seriati

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #131 on: July 19, 2019, 01:13:07 PM »
So disapproval is curb stomping now? The difference, if I must spell it out, is subpoena versus public pressure to not be a giant racist ass.

So to be clear, you endorse the Hollywood blacklists?

Seriati

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #132 on: July 19, 2019, 02:04:43 PM »
This would have been better in the thread about whether there are any material amount of white nationalist and the media's propping them up, but it works here too.

https://www.creators.com/read/david-harsanyi/07/19/why-medias-normalizing-of-white-nationalists-matters

D.W.

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #133 on: July 19, 2019, 02:07:58 PM »
We get it.  Everyone is to blame BUT the guy in the oval office.

TheDrake

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #134 on: July 19, 2019, 02:14:02 PM »
So disapproval is curb stomping now? The difference, if I must spell it out, is subpoena versus public pressure to not be a giant racist ass.

So to be clear, you endorse the Hollywood blacklists?

Do I support blacklists for the KKK and Antifa? You better believe I do. Do I support Roseanne losing her job for comparing a human being to an Ape? Yup, check that box.

I'm not part of the group that wants to kick "socialists" or "communists" out of the country.

None of which is equivalent to putting someone's jaw on a sidewalk and coming down with full body weight, so can the curb stomping rhetoric. It's beneath you, TD.

TheDeamon

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #135 on: July 19, 2019, 02:48:43 PM »
I'm not part of the group that wants to kick "socialists" or "communists" out of the country.

Where did Trump try to kick them out of the country? He asked them go back to their homeland and see about applying their great ideas there. If they're such great ideas for here, they should work elsewhere too. And considering how drastic many of the suggested fixes are, they don't come without significant risk to the United States as a whole. Isn't it reasonable to ask for a proven demonstration of how things will work before breaking something which is working "reasonable well" even if it isn't perfect?

Because that's where a lot of us are drawing lines on this stuff. They want to implement changes and "reforms" into the system that we're pretty certain will do nothing to actually fix most of the problems we have, and are very likely to make things worse, not better. We're open to being wrong, but we'd rather not be the guinea pigs either.

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None of which is equivalent to putting someone's jaw on a sidewalk and coming down with full body weight, so can the curb stomping rhetoric. It's beneath you, TD.

I'll take note to remember that you will interpret my future figures of speech quite literally. You know what I meant, but decided to be pedantic about it. As someone who is rather pedantic myself, I can fully respect that.

TheDrake

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #136 on: July 19, 2019, 02:54:12 PM »
"I don't like your ideas. Leave our country." Seems pretty cut and dried to me, and we've covered most of this ground before. Being in favor of socialized medicine doesn't mean you are evil or worthy of banishment, and by the way it has worked pretty *censored* well for most of the industrialized world including our next door neighbor, Canada. You're not an enemy of America because you think every single citizen should have access to a doctor.

And I'm fully prepared to have my rhetoric thrown back in my face, I just really take some offense to violent rhetoric. I don't think that's being pedantic, to not want disapproval equated with bodily harm.

Oh, and while I didn't say so before, the earlier part of the discussion talking about people wanting to "hang" minorities was also way out of line.

TheDrake

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #137 on: July 19, 2019, 04:01:13 PM »
Might as well tack this into this thread, though it doesn't fuel the racist discussion, it does show callous indifference to one of the refugees that he claims are destroying Germany.

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Murad, who now lives in Germany, told him she never wanted to be a refu­gee but that ISIS murdered her mother and six brothers.

“Where are they now?” Trump asked.

“They killed them,” she repeated. “They are in the mass grave in Sinjar, and I’m still fighting just to live in safety.”

I actually watched the video to be absolutely certain that the media didn't skip a quote, nope, that was literally a back to back sequence without interruption.

Trump during the whole thing looks like a kid chafing for the final bell to let him out of school. This woman absolutely was one of the people banned from seeking refuge in the US by Trump's order.

1:30 is the relevant spot

Crunch

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #138 on: July 19, 2019, 05:36:28 PM »
Why do you assume Seriati and his acquaintances are white, Crunch?

I know it is easier to ignore the arguments people make and build straw men to make yourself feel better about not being able to defend your own positions...

I don’t know him and don’t know why you’re making assumptions that I’m talking about him. Talk about building a strawman , Jesus. SMH

TheDeamon

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #139 on: July 19, 2019, 06:17:37 PM »
Why do you assume Seriati and his acquaintances are white, Crunch?

I know it is easier to ignore the arguments people make and build straw men to make yourself feel better about not being able to defend your own positions...

I don’t know him and don’t know why you’re making assumptions that I’m talking about him. Talk about building a strawman , Jesus. SMH

So many people being very literal and pedantic in this thread.

Pete at Home

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #140 on: July 19, 2019, 06:43:26 PM »
Out of curiosity, how many people here believe that Donald Trump can onpy be racist if he was white, and that if he took off his mask and showed he was black that he would be incapable of racism?

TheDrake

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #141 on: July 19, 2019, 08:32:12 PM »
Black people can and have been racist, especially against Asians and Hispanics. I guess they can be racist against white too, but lack the power to actually cause harm.

Pete at Home

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #142 on: July 19, 2019, 11:18:14 PM »
Black people can and have been racist, especially against Asians and Hispanics. I guess they can be racist against white too, but lack the power to actually cause harm.

Perhaps in your income level and protected neighborhoods black racially “woke” Americans lack the power to hurt white people but down here in the inner cities and in prison it’s a rather different matter, tovarich

Pete at Home

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #143 on: July 19, 2019, 11:23:54 PM »
"I don't like your ideas. Leave our country." Seems pretty cut and dried to me, and we've covered most of this ground before. Being in favor of socialized medicine doesn't mean you are evil or worthy of banishment, and by the way it has worked pretty *censored* well for most of the industrialized world including our next door neighbor, Canada. You're not an enemy of America because you think every single citizen should have access to a doctor.

And I'm fully prepared to have my rhetoric thrown back in my face, I just really take some offense to violent rhetoric. I don't think that's being pedantic, to not want disapproval equated with bodily harm.

Oh, and while I didn't say so before, the earlier part of the discussion talking about people wanting to "hang" minorities was also way out of line.

The later sounds racist. The former is clearly not racist, although arguably more repugnant than actual racism. ( can Chinese authorities be racist against white people? When Chinese national authorities shut down a digging when the oldest human body in China turned out a white redhead, was that racism or something worse, or both?

TheDrake

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #144 on: July 19, 2019, 11:32:38 PM »
Black people can and have been racist, especially against Asians and Hispanics. I guess they can be racist against white too, but lack the power to actually cause harm.

Perhaps in your income level and protected neighborhoods black racially “woke” Americans lack the power to hurt white people but down here in the inner cities and in prison it’s a rather different matter, tovarich

I'll grant you that one. I had a friend who thought about moving to Laurence MA, predominantly Hispanics, and his friends of color told him not to because he would get robbed and beaten. But most white people don't have to worry about that because they have suburbia on lock.

TheDeamon

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #145 on: July 19, 2019, 11:58:29 PM »
Black people can and have been racist, especially against Asians and Hispanics. I guess they can be racist against white too, but lack the power to actually cause harm.

Perhaps in your income level and protected neighborhoods black racially “woke” Americans lack the power to hurt white people but down here in the inner cities and in prison it’s a rather different matter, tovarich

I'll grant you that one. I had a friend who thought about moving to Laurence MA, predominantly Hispanics, and his friends of color told him not to because he would get robbed and beaten. But most white people don't have to worry about that because they have suburbia on lock.

Uh, I think you missed part of the message that was being said. It wasn't so much that "the area is rough" in general and is unsafe for anyone.

It was that the area was unsafe for white people who decided to live there. They'd make themselves targets living there because they would be the only white family in the area.

In those situations, more often than not, the only ones who might "get a pass" is someone performing religious services of some type. As most groups will be somewhat mindful of that, even if they don't go for it themselves. But anybody else? Watch out.

TheDrake

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #146 on: July 20, 2019, 02:20:35 AM »
Black people can and have been racist, especially against Asians and Hispanics. I guess they can be racist against white too, but lack the power to actually cause harm.

Perhaps in your income level and protected neighborhoods black racially “woke” Americans lack the power to hurt white people but down here in the inner cities and in prison it’s a rather different matter, tovarich

I'll grant you that one. I had a friend who thought about moving to Laurence MA, predominantly Hispanics, and his friends of color told him not to because he would get robbed and beaten. But most white people don't have to worry about that because they have suburbia on lock.

Uh, I think you missed part of the message that was being said. It wasn't so much that "the area is rough" in general and is unsafe for anyone.

It was that the area was unsafe for white people who decided to live there. They'd make themselves targets living there because they would be the only white family in the area.

In those situations, more often than not, the only ones who might "get a pass" is someone performing religious services of some type. As most groups will be somewhat mindful of that, even if they don't go for it themselves. But anybody else? Watch out.

No, I meant exactly that my friend would be targeted for being white.

Fenring

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #147 on: July 20, 2019, 12:40:16 PM »
And now we have someone who doesn't understand the definition of the word "judgment"... either that, or you are conflating the legal vs non-legal language, which I agree is stupid.  (again, here's a hint - you do not need to form an opinion in order to identify somebody as black or Asian.)

I'm a few days late on this one as I was out of town on holiday, so sorry to necro an older comment in this thread out of context. But I wanted to make mention of something inherent in this statement which very much reflects an identity politics premise that I believe cannot stand up to scrutiny. One huge issue in the past in genetics has been "is there race?", to which one previous liberal position was that there was no such thing as race. However geneticists (and doctors) maintained that there really was, and that aside from medical considerations when determining a patient's risk factors, there are definitely racial genetic markers defining geographical groups that are divergent. But the current prevailing liberal position on racial politics is obviously that there is very much a such thing as race, and moreover that it is a crucial defining characteristic of pretty much everyone. However this position just as much as the previous one ignores the science, which shows that while there are traits common to those from geographical areas, there is also a huge divergence within each group, and that there is often more divergence within a group than between groups. Further, the genetic things to check for are legion, and reducing the matter to a visual inspection of skin color is completely unscientific. Only slightly better is asking a person what country they're from, which is at least factual but potentially irrelevant in terms of race (see: "I'm African" for white South Africans).

The current trend of DNA testing for origin (and the recent nonsense with Elizabeth Warren) should make clear to most people that their ancestry can be very mixed up, and how this reflects in skin tone is somewhat of a trivial point in terms of their genetics. So when you say that "you do not need to form an opinion in order to identify someone as black or Asian" so you are failing to note that you literally do need to make a judgement about what percentage of their DNA needs to be from a certain geographical population in order to 'qualify'. I doubt, for instance, you would want to call a light-skinned person with 3% DNA from Nigeria (like a great-great-great-great grandfather who was black) as "black". But then again, why not? I knew a girl back in school whose skin color was like ivory and whose father was black, and she identified as black. It did cause some surprise when she cited herself as being black when people noted her visually as a total white girl. So is your skin pigmentation the defining characteristic (a something-ist rule if ever there was one) or is it your genetic heritage, in which case skin color is only somewhat relevant? And just a side note, but you've put "black" and "Asian" in the same formula, where one stands for a skin color and the other for a geographical heritage. Or maybe you meant "Asian-looking"? But boy I don't think that term would go over very well if you went around using it.

So yeah, do *do* need to create an arbitrary opinion that defines whether a person "is" a particular race, and this is increasingly mired by what used to be called 'intermarriage' but which we now just call people being friendly. You're going to tell me that club membership based on skin tone isn't inherently problematic if one were forced to define exactly what the qualifying criteria are? Or if it's based on genetics does that mean you need to hand in your genetic report card? The matter is currently treated (by both sides, really) as if race is some fact written on the person's forehead that identifies them. It's not; it's some amalgam of their skin color, their culture, their family's origin, their medical history, and perhaps even their comfort level in certain environments.

Pete at Home

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #148 on: July 20, 2019, 01:24:05 PM »
When you set aside the brainwashing and disinformation, the bantus that dominate South Africa are no more related to it’s true natives than either of them from the White South Africans.  In their cold blooded cannibalism and oppression of the true south African natives, the people’s related to the pygmies and Bushmen, the Bantus are genocidal beyond compare.

TheDeamon

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Re: Our Racist President
« Reply #149 on: July 20, 2019, 03:01:08 PM »
When you set aside the brainwashing and disinformation, the bantus that dominate South Africa are no more related to it’s true natives than either of them from the White South Africans.  In their cold blooded cannibalism and oppression of the true south African natives, the people’s related to the pygmies and Bushmen, the Bantus are genocidal beyond compare.

Nice to hear that from somewhere other than the mouth of a (White) South African. It was interesting to hear him go on about how the Black population down there continues to demand "reparations" for "theft of their lands" which he was claiming wasn't even theirs to start with.