Author Topic: BoJo Boffo or Bozo?  (Read 29576 times)

TheDrake

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Re: BoJo Boffo or Bozo?
« Reply #50 on: October 21, 2019, 10:36:46 AM »
I don't see DUP supporting Boris deal. I don't see anything passing parliament without their support.

TheDrake

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Re: BoJo Boffo or Bozo?
« Reply #51 on: October 28, 2019, 09:19:52 AM »
Brexit IV - election time

Do voters really want another general election?

I'm just glad we can't have extra bonus elections in the US. The UK will now have 3 elections in 4 years - plus this one will come right before the holiday.

So maybe Boris picks up a few Brexiteers, and he can get his deal passed. If he doesn't, however, it seems really unclear what comes next. If they lose enough seats, perhaps Labour would form a majority government. That still leaves Brexit in the air, though, does it not? Some say that they would call a new referendum. Which would probably require yet another extension from the EU. If there is a Leave under Labour, they'd probably stay in the customs union and the common market.

Seriati

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Re: BoJo Boffo or Bozo?
« Reply #52 on: October 28, 2019, 10:14:45 AM »
I think this election is effectively a second referendum.  The deals on the table, if they give Boris and his allies a majority it'll go through.  If not, they give Labour and it's allies a majority and Brexit probably gets rescinded.

NobleHunter

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Re: BoJo Boffo or Bozo?
« Reply #53 on: October 28, 2019, 10:18:47 AM »
They'll probably give neither side a majority. Why should the electorate be any more decisive than anyone else in this mess?

DonaldD

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Re: BoJo Boffo or Bozo?
« Reply #54 on: October 28, 2019, 10:32:53 AM »
You don't need even close to a majority of votes to win a majority in parliament, although the mix of regional players in the UK does make it unlikely this time around.

Seriati

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Re: BoJo Boffo or Bozo?
« Reply #55 on: October 28, 2019, 10:33:46 AM »
Wasn't trying to imply a majority for a party, only a majority for one side or the other.

NobleHunter

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Re: BoJo Boffo or Bozo?
« Reply #56 on: October 28, 2019, 10:48:09 AM »
That suggests MPs know which side they're on. If I'm reading the tea leaves right, the two biggest parties are split between three plans for Brexit. Supporters of each plan are likely to declare any minority results means their side won.

TheDrake

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Re: BoJo Boffo or Bozo?
« Reply #57 on: October 28, 2019, 05:04:01 PM »
And... Johnson loses again. He doesn't get his election.

Seriati

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Re: BoJo Boffo or Bozo?
« Reply #58 on: October 28, 2019, 05:17:44 PM »
Well, maybe, but he's calling a vote again tomorrow that apparently only needs a majority rather than 2/3's, and that has more support than this one.  I don't even remotely pretend to understand their system.

TheDrake

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Re: BoJo Boffo or Bozo?
« Reply #59 on: October 29, 2019, 01:51:49 PM »
Interesting maneuver

Quote
No 10 says it will abandon its latest attempt if MPs support giving 16 and 17-year olds and EU nationals the vote.

Labour has said it will back any amendment calling for these groups to be allowed to take part in the proposed election.


Seriati

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Re: BoJo Boffo or Bozo?
« Reply #60 on: October 29, 2019, 11:50:32 PM »
And now they agreed to a December 12th general election.  Choice is clearer, vote for pro-Brexit candidates and it's done, vote for the anti-s and it's probably over (though 100% chance the EU is not going to forgive the slight).

Kasandra

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Re: BoJo Boffo or Bozo?
« Reply #61 on: October 30, 2019, 07:04:56 AM »

Seriati

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Re: BoJo Boffo or Bozo?
« Reply #62 on: October 30, 2019, 09:49:32 AM »
It's tough to trust projectitive economics when they are based on assumptions that may not be valid.  Pretty by definition they will return a smaller result other models the opposing, whether reality agrees with one or the other remains to be decided.

Kasandra

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Re: BoJo Boffo or Bozo?
« Reply #63 on: October 30, 2019, 04:57:55 PM »
It's tough to trust projectitive economics when they are based on assumptions that may not be valid.  Pretty by definition they will return a smaller result other models the opposing, whether reality agrees with one or the other remains to be decided.
You mean just economic predictions, which explains why Trump's claims about his economic miracles have turned out to be so laughably wrong.  In fact, every time he mentions money, he turns out to be wrong, even when he's "predicting the past" or the present.  One wonders if Bojo didn't study at his feet.

Seriati

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Re: BoJo Boffo or Bozo?
« Reply #64 on: October 30, 2019, 05:16:52 PM »
Not sure what you're talking about, with Trump, it's pretty clear the doomsayer's predictions were more wrong.  I mean, alot of what the left's economists predicted turned out to be literally backwards, things they said were impossible turned out to be not so impossible.

In any event, the actual reality is that no one really knows for sure what the Brexit impact will be in as little as 2-3 years, let alone 5-10, and I think the predictions that the UK is going to worse off than in staying in the increasingly regulatory EU is a bit nonsensical.

Kasandra

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Re: BoJo Boffo or Bozo?
« Reply #65 on: October 31, 2019, 08:57:48 AM »
Not sure what you're talking about, with Trump, it's pretty clear the doomsayer's predictions were more wrong.  I mean, alot of what the left's economists predicted turned out to be literally backwards, things they said were impossible turned out to be not so impossible.
If an economist disagrees with Trump's policies s/he's consigned to be a leftist?  Can't they just be Nobel prize winners with PhD's and decades of knowledge and experience?  It could be that you've been listening to Ron Vara instead.

You really aren't aware that Trump's policies are crap and he relies on economic policy advisors who probably can't make change for a dollar?  I'll tell you why they've been such miserable failures and who Ron Vara really is if you don't know how to find out about those things for yourself.  Didn't you even consider checking the facts before showing off the beautiful orange sunburn you've gotten from basking in the glow of Trump's genius?

Kasandra

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Re: BoJo Boffo or Bozo?
« Reply #66 on: November 20, 2019, 06:42:46 AM »
The end of the UK might be the inevitable result of the never-ending confusion about what Brexit is supposed to bring about.  If they don't know what that is, why have a UK at all? Scotland, Northern Ireland and even Wales are considering leaving.

Kasandra

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Re: BoJo Boffo or Bozo?
« Reply #67 on: December 14, 2019, 07:37:09 AM »
The pundits are all rushing to explain the unexpectedly solid Conservative victory and Labour defeat as if it was inevitable, as if they had seen it coming without ever having said so beforehand.

Anybody here surprised, not surprised?  For me, I expected it to be a close election that Johnson would win, nothing like the result we're seeing.

What happens next is even more opaque.  I think Scotland will vote on separation again and this time succeed, bitterness across the UK will dominate the mood as the country backs away from its global position near the top of the economic food chain.

The wider implications fit with the general global retreat from integrated economic agreements.  We'll see protectionist and punitive tariffs, country-to-country trade deals, along with weaker support in the western hemisphere for political alliances, fragmenting of mutual military support organizations.

The beneficiaries of all this economic and political churn will be Russia and China.  Russia because they will eat away at those alliances and China because they will simply make deals with everybody.

UK, you're going down, but take heart that you're not going down alone.

ScottF

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Re: BoJo Boffo or Bozo?
« Reply #68 on: December 14, 2019, 12:24:16 PM »
I don't know UK politics well, but wouldn't "bitterness" usually dominate the mood for the minority who just got their collective butt handed to them?

What are the early indicators you're seeing that lead you to think the UK will significantly lose world economic standing? i.e. measurable things.


NobleHunter

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Re: BoJo Boffo or Bozo?
« Reply #69 on: December 14, 2019, 12:40:52 PM »
What are the chances BoJo still manages to lose his next vote in Parliament?

Kasandra

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Re: BoJo Boffo or Bozo?
« Reply #70 on: December 14, 2019, 08:53:25 PM »
I don't know UK politics well, but wouldn't "bitterness" usually dominate the mood for the minority who just got their collective butt handed to them?

What are the early indicators you're seeing that lead you to think the UK will significantly lose world economic standing? i.e. measurable things.
Loss of manufacturing as companies move factories to EU countries, loss of investment opportunities in UK as financial resources are moved to other countries, more difficulty importing foreign goods due to customs and taxes, devaluation of UK currency, etc....

Bitterness doesn't have to be the response of those who lose, but in this case there are no winners.  A sizable portion of the electorate picked Johnson because he seems to have a specific vision and undilineated but hard goal with Brexit.  Corbyn came across as feckless.  A lot of traditional Labour voters who voted for Johnson said they aren't abandoning Labour, just its leadership.

ScottF

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Re: BoJo Boffo or Bozo?
« Reply #71 on: December 14, 2019, 11:38:38 PM »
I don't know UK politics well, but wouldn't "bitterness" usually dominate the mood for the minority who just got their collective butt handed to them?

What are the early indicators you're seeing that lead you to think the UK will significantly lose world economic standing? i.e. measurable things.
Loss of manufacturing as companies move factories to EU countries, loss of investment opportunities in UK as financial resources are moved to other countries, more difficulty importing foreign goods due to customs and taxes, devaluation of UK currency, etc....

The sterling appears strong and has risen against the euro, moreso since the vote. I was looking for measurable indicators but you seem to simply be listing the things you feel are bound to happen.

Kasandra

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Re: BoJo Boffo or Bozo?
« Reply #72 on: December 15, 2019, 05:52:32 AM »
I guess I'm not sure what sort of thing you're asking for. AFAIK, no country has made any sort of statement about how they will respond, and the outcome will be guided by the specifics of BoJo's exit program.

I think we can account for the slight bounce in the pound because there is a bit more clarity.  I would call it stable rather than strong for the moment, and it will rise or fall as the deal becomes apparent.  People simply want to know more and now they at least know they will be leaving. 

Pete at Home

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Re: BoJo Boffo or Bozo?
« Reply #73 on: December 15, 2019, 10:30:53 AM »
Europe, perhaps Macron, might always decide to not require the UK do what it hates to stay in United Europe.

ScottF

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Re: BoJo Boffo or Bozo?
« Reply #74 on: December 15, 2019, 10:39:34 AM »
Ok that's reasonable. If most of those things that you're worried about don't happen over the next year or two will you still consider it a bad decision?

I'm trying to get a sense for the voters over there and if they voted more along pragmatic lines (e.g. economic effects, immigration implications, etc.) vs symbolic/emotional (being part of "one Europe" vs solidarity and independence).

The only thing I have to personally compare it to Quebec's secession vote way back in 1995. It narrowly failed (no separation from Canada). The joke was that if the vote had been put to the rest of the country it would have won in a landslide.

DJQuag

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Re: BoJo Boffo or Bozo?
« Reply #75 on: December 15, 2019, 10:48:28 AM »
My man Jonathan Pie lays down the truth.

https://youtu.be/G0nIhL4v6bY

People need to understand that this vote was a protest vote. For three plus years the entire media and parliamentary opinion has been focused on Brexit. So it's only natural that a subset of people who would never, ever, vote for the party of the rich/old would change their vote if only so Brexit could finally be done with and the declining social system could be addressed.

Will said social system be addressed in a way that pleases said voters by that party? I wouldn't quite bet my life against it but I would bet a whole lot of money. Fact is the Conservatives have ruled for close to a decade here and living standards for the lower class have continually declined. I'm not sure why I should believe they'd start caring now. The entire history of the Tory party has been taking care care of London and anywhere a couple hours drive away.

ScottF

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Re: BoJo Boffo or Bozo?
« Reply #76 on: December 15, 2019, 11:01:17 AM »
That was actually pretty good. He doesn't say it, but the corollaries to how Trump won (and will probably win again) in the US is scary.

"Depressingly predictable result, and yet the left is shocked. How could this possibly happen? Everyone I know voted the same way I did."


Pete at Home

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Re: BoJo Boffo or Bozo?
« Reply #77 on: December 16, 2019, 02:50:05 PM »
How's this for accuracy, djquag?  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tinyDe7tAW4

Pete at Home

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Re: BoJo Boffo or Bozo?
« Reply #78 on: December 16, 2019, 03:08:47 PM »
Johnson is doing his best to undermine Britain's unwritten constitution

Is there any substance to that?  If so please offer specifics.  If not, please signal by silence or additional vague handwaving.

TheDrake

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Re: BoJo Boffo or Bozo?
« Reply #79 on: December 16, 2019, 03:11:27 PM »
Johnson is doing his best to undermine Britain's unwritten constitution

Is there any substance to that?  If so please offer specifics.  If not, please signal by silence or additional vague handwaving.

At the time of the quote, it was this..


Quote
So “egregious” was the overreach, a Scottish court said this week, that it did something no British court ever had before: It ruled that the prime minister had misled the public and unlawfully advised the queen on a suspension of Parliament, abusing some of the loftiest powers he had to clear his path of recalcitrant anti-Brexit lawmakers.

Pete at Home

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Re: BoJo Boffo or Bozo?
« Reply #80 on: December 16, 2019, 03:22:20 PM »
Johnson is doing his best to undermine Britain's unwritten constitution

Is there any substance to that?  If so please offer specifics.  If not, please signal by silence or additional vague handwaving.

At the time of the quote, it was this..


Quote
So “egregious” was the overreach, a Scottish court said this week, that it did something no British court ever had before: It ruled that the prime minister had misled the public and unlawfully advised the queen on a suspension of Parliament, abusing some of the loftiest powers he had to clear his path of recalcitrant anti-Brexit lawmakers.

Good night. Recommended suspension of Parliament to the Queen?  Horrible.  Shameful.  The British constitution should forbid such horrors. But does it? 

Note it's the court that's doing something "no British court ever had before."  No evidence so far that Boris has done something no British Prime Minister has done before.  Did the court elsewhere say what Kass said, that these things violate Britain's unwritten constitution.

TheDrake

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Re: BoJo Boffo or Bozo?
« Reply #81 on: December 16, 2019, 04:07:28 PM »
I don't know what an unwritten constitution is, or how you could define it other than moral tradition. Not such is needed in this case, as the UK Supreme Court ruled it illegal.

Quote
Judges said it was wrong to stop MPs carrying out duties in the run-up to the Brexit deadline on 31 October.

The PM, who has faced calls to resign, said he "profoundly disagreed" with the ruling but would "respect" it.

The Labour conference finished early following the ruling and MPs are returning to Westminster ready for Parliament to reconvene on Wednesday.

A senior government official said the prime minister spoke to the Queen after the Supreme Court ruling, but would not reveal the details of the conversation.

It comes after the court ruled it was impossible to conclude there had been any reason "let alone a good reason - to advise Her Majesty to prorogue Parliament for five weeks".

Kasandra

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Re: BoJo Boffo or Bozo?
« Reply #82 on: December 17, 2019, 07:50:48 AM »
Johnson is doing his best to undermine Britain's unwritten constitution

Is there any substance to that?  If so please offer specifics.  If not, please signal by silence or additional vague handwaving.
Read up before dismissing my comment.  You don't know about his prorogue or intent to violate the Benn Bill?  He now runs the government, so without a real Constitution pretty much anything he does is Constitutional.  Think of it how Trump will run the US after the impeachment trial fails to convict him, only we'll be in far worse shape.  [Think of that last comment as vague handwaving if you like.]

Kasandra

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Re: BoJo Boffo or Bozo?
« Reply #83 on: December 17, 2019, 07:52:36 AM »
"Did the court elsewhere say what Kass said, that these things violate Britain's unwritten constitution."

Since you ask, what is the UK's unwritten Constitution?  Even better if you can point to a written one.

Also, please refer to me by the name I have chosen for myself.  You have a long history of assigning pet names to people and to me specifically, which I objected to when you did.

TheDeamon

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Re: BoJo Boffo or Bozo?
« Reply #84 on: December 17, 2019, 09:41:20 AM »
Think of it how Trump will run the US after the impeachment trial fails to convict him, only we'll be in far worse shape.  [Think of that last comment as vague handwaving if you like.]

That's not hand-waving, that's full blown tin-foil hatter territory there.

Pete at Home

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Re: BoJo Boffo or Bozo?
« Reply #85 on: December 17, 2019, 09:47:01 AM »
Kassandra, you shouldn’t go saying he violated the unwritten constitution if you don’t even know what the unwritten constitution is, or people will call you Jefe.

Kasandra

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Re: BoJo Boffo or Bozo?
« Reply #86 on: December 17, 2019, 09:47:36 AM »
Think of it how Trump will run the US after the impeachment trial fails to convict him, only we'll be in far worse shape.  [Think of that last comment as vague handwaving if you like.]

That's not hand-waving, that's full blown tin-foil hatter territory there.
It constantly amazes me that some people look at how Trump executes his executive responsibilities and shrug.

Kasandra

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Re: BoJo Boffo or Bozo?
« Reply #87 on: December 17, 2019, 09:50:54 AM »
Kassandra, you shouldn’t go saying he violated the unwritten constitution if you don’t even know what the unwritten constitution is, or people will call you Jefe.
There's only one 's' in my name.  You don't think the Scottish Supreme Court called what he did a violation of the unwritten Constitution?   

Lady Hale said,

"The decision to advise Her Majesty to prorogue Parliament was unlawful because it had the effect of frustrating or preventing the ability of Parliament to carry out its constitutional functions without reasonable justification."

What do you think she was referring to?

TheDeamon

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Re: BoJo Boffo or Bozo?
« Reply #88 on: December 17, 2019, 09:55:19 AM »
Think of it how Trump will run the US after the impeachment trial fails to convict him, only we'll be in far worse shape.  [Think of that last comment as vague handwaving if you like.]

That's not hand-waving, that's full blown tin-foil hatter territory there.
It constantly amazes me that some people look at how Trump executes his executive responsibilities and shrug.

So very eight years ago for me. Of course, Trump is also far more of a paper tiger than a lot of people want to make him out to be.

If Obama couldn't pull it off, Trump sure as *bleep* isn't going to do it.

Pete at Home

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Re: BoJo Boffo or Bozo?
« Reply #89 on: December 17, 2019, 09:57:17 AM »
Kassandra, I didn’t “dismiss” your comment. I asked for specifics.  I thought, as vague, arrogant and dismissive as you behave, that you might actually have something to say if properly motivated. And I was right.  Thank you for the Ben bill reference. Now that you provided a googleable reference, your “read up before asking for specifics “ mandate isn’t completely useless.

Please feel free to abbreviate my name to Pete.  If anyone else is fastidious about abbreviations, let it be known.


Pete at Home

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Re: BoJo Boffo or Bozo?
« Reply #90 on: December 17, 2019, 10:02:34 AM »
Kassandra, you shouldn’t go saying he violated the unwritten constitution if you don’t even know what the unwritten constitution is, or people will call you Jefe.
There's only one 's' in my name.  You don't think the Scottish Supreme Court called what he did a violation of the unwritten Constitution?   

Lady Hale said,

"The decision to advise Her Majesty to prorogue Parliament was unlawful because it had the effect of frustrating or preventing the ability of Parliament to carry out its constitutional functions without reasonable justification."

[snip]

Sigh. Kasandra, If you are going to cite authority for a conclusion of law,you need to reference it or people are going to think you pulled the opinion out of your gigantic tinfoil hat.

Kasandra

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Re: BoJo Boffo or Bozo?
« Reply #91 on: December 17, 2019, 10:04:47 AM »
Kassandra, you shouldn’t go saying he violated the unwritten constitution if you don’t even know what the unwritten constitution is, or people will call you Jefe.
There's only one 's' in my name.  You don't think the Scottish Supreme Court called what he did a violation of the unwritten Constitution?   

Lady Hale said,

"The decision to advise Her Majesty to prorogue Parliament was unlawful because it had the effect of frustrating or preventing the ability of Parliament to carry out its constitutional functions without reasonable justification."

[snip]

Sigh. If you are going to cite authority for a conclusion of law,you need to reference it or people are going to think you pulled the opinion out of your gigantic tinfoil hat.
I'm not a lawyer, so referencing the head of the Scottish Supreme Court seemed like enough authority for me.  Who has higher authority than she does and would have to say what she said for you to accept it?

Pete at Home

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Re: BoJo Boffo or Bozo?
« Reply #92 on: December 17, 2019, 10:06:25 AM »
Let's keep working on this: My name has one 's'.  I'm hopeful we'll keep making progress.

Thank you for correcting my spelling. You are welcome for correcting your deplorable failure to reference your claims.

Kasandra

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Re: BoJo Boffo or Bozo?
« Reply #93 on: December 17, 2019, 10:09:36 AM »
Think of it how Trump will run the US after the impeachment trial fails to convict him, only we'll be in far worse shape.  [Think of that last comment as vague handwaving if you like.]

That's not hand-waving, that's full blown tin-foil hatter territory there.
It constantly amazes me that some people look at how Trump executes his executive responsibilities and shrug.

So very eight years ago for me. Of course, Trump is also far more of a paper tiger than a lot of people want to make him out to be.

If Obama couldn't pull it off, Trump sure as *bleep* isn't going to do it.
I'll be happy to bat around Trump's many virtues against Obama's, but in a separate thread.

TheDeamon

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Re: BoJo Boffo or Bozo?
« Reply #94 on: December 17, 2019, 10:20:37 AM »
So very eight years ago for me. Of course, Trump is also far more of a paper tiger than a lot of people want to make him out to be.

If Obama couldn't pull it off, Trump sure as *bleep* isn't going to do it.
I'll be happy to bat around Trump's many virtues against Obama's, but in a separate thread.

Trump's the chintzy user-car salesman you don't trust further than you can throw him.

Obama was the smooth talking car salesman you expect to find at the BMW Dealership. You still couldn't trust him further than you could throw him, but he made you feel so much better about what he was peddling.

Pete at Home

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Re: BoJo Boffo or Bozo?
« Reply #95 on: December 17, 2019, 10:31:50 AM »
So very eight years ago for me. Of course, Trump is also far more of a paper tiger than a lot of people want to make him out to be.

If Obama couldn't pull it off, Trump sure as *bleep* isn't going to do it.
I'll be happy to bat around Trump's many virtues against Obama's, but in a separate thread.

Trump's the chintzy user-car salesman you don't trust further than you can throw him.

Obama was the smooth talking car salesman you expect to find at the BMW Dealership. You still couldn't trust him further than you could throw him, but he made you feel so much better about what he was peddling.

He also restrained his temper, even when his fellow lefties were screaming for blood.  That's real leadership.  Clinton or Trump would have gone all Janet Reno and slaughtered those Oregon protesters, made martyrs of them, invited another Oklahoma City.  Obama waited them out.

ScottF

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Re: BoJo Boffo or Bozo?
« Reply #96 on: December 17, 2019, 10:33:35 AM »
From one of my favorite UK twitter follows, Titania McGrath:

"In order to revitalise the Labour Party, we’re going to have to win over the hearts and minds of all those fascist racist misogynist working-class gammons who were too stupid to vote the correct way last time."

Pete at Home

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Re: BoJo Boffo or Bozo?
« Reply #97 on: December 17, 2019, 10:33:55 AM »
Kassandra, you shouldn’t go saying he violated the unwritten constitution if you don’t even know what the unwritten constitution is, or people will call you Jefe.
There's only one 's' in my name.  You don't think the Scottish Supreme Court called what he did a violation of the unwritten Constitution?   

Lady Hale said,

"The decision to advise Her Majesty to prorogue Parliament was unlawful because it had the effect of frustrating or preventing the ability of Parliament to carry out its constitutional functions without reasonable justification."

[snip]

Sigh. If you are going to cite authority for a conclusion of law,you need to reference it or people are going to think you pulled the opinion out of your gigantic tinfoil hat.
I'm not a lawyer, so referencing the head of the Scottish Supreme Court seemed like enough authority for me. 

Don't be dishonest.  You didn't mention her until I asked for specifics.  You should have referenced her in your original claim that Mojo BoJo violated the unwritten constitution. 

Kasandra

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Re: BoJo Boffo or Bozo?
« Reply #98 on: December 17, 2019, 10:38:47 AM »
So very eight years ago for me. Of course, Trump is also far more of a paper tiger than a lot of people want to make him out to be.

If Obama couldn't pull it off, Trump sure as *bleep* isn't going to do it.
I'll be happy to bat around Trump's many virtues against Obama's, but in a separate thread.

Trump's the chintzy user-car salesman you don't trust further than you can throw him.

Obama was the smooth talking car salesman you expect to find at the BMW Dealership. You still couldn't trust him further than you could throw him, but he made you feel so much better about what he was peddling.
All politicians have that in common, but the BMW salesman at least has a quality product to sell.  How many people refuse to hear any criticism of the chintzy car salesman who sold them a clunker?  About 50,000,000.

Pete at Home

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Re: BoJo Boffo or Bozo?
« Reply #99 on: December 17, 2019, 10:38:57 AM »
Here's Kasandra's referenced argument.  Note the total absence of any reference to support Kasandra's conclusion of law wrapped in a motive inference:

Johnson is doing his best to undermine Britain's unwritten constitution and treat his opposition in Parliament is if it is a nuisance rather than a majority.  It's clear that Johnson is a bully like Trump, but unlike Trump he has no mandate or even an identified constituency.  He's trying to force his will onto people who truly are confused and his coercion isn't galvanizing people to follow his lead.  If anything, he's racking up opponents who simply don't trust anything he says.  That's another point of comparison with Trump, whose US constituency is eroding bit by bit with every dishonest, insincere, manipulative and self-aggrandizing tweet he issues.

The only reasonable expectation for the UK is that the Brexit process will continue to get worse and nobody knows how to make it get any better.  RIP as night falls on the Empire of the Sun.