Author Topic: Conservative Onion equivalent  (Read 13409 times)

Seriati

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Conservative Onion equivalent
« on: August 07, 2019, 03:03:08 PM »
So I'd never heard of Babylon Bee before today, but it's pretty funny.  I particularly enjoyed this one:

https://babylonbee.com/news/democratic-socialists-forced-to-communicate-via-interpretative-dance-to-avoid-offending-any-attendees

I also think it's funny that it came to my attention because Fox did an interview with it's owner (?) where he was complaining that Snopes has repeatedly "fact checked" his satirical stories to label them as fake news rather than satire.  I understand that the Onion has occasionally had a similar problem.

TheDrake

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Re: Conservative Onion equivalent
« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2019, 04:04:11 PM »
I don't really see either site as exclusively conservative or liberal, though I'll concede some lean. I've seen their stuff before, and I find their concepts to be interesting but their execution is kind of lame. Like "blame trump for everything" could be funny, but why choose the Titanic? It's just a bizarre choice in writing.

I could easily see the Biden spray bottle article on the Onion as well. They describe themselves more aligned with Christian humor, and they dish that out at the expense of religion as much as anyone disparaging it.

Wayward Son

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Re: Conservative Onion equivalent
« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2019, 05:59:09 PM »
Quote
I also think it's funny that it came to my attention because Fox did an interview with it's owner (?) where he was complaining that Snopes has repeatedly "fact checked" his satirical stories to label them as fake news rather than satire.

Well, that's because there are a lot of people out there who pass on the stories without labeling them as satire.  And those who get them don't realize they are satire and pass them on a God's Truth.  ::)

So it's not so much that Snopes is labeling his stories as fake news, but rather the people who pass them on a fact.  :)

Crunch

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Re: Conservative Onion equivalent
« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2019, 06:28:46 PM »
If that were true, Snopes would merely point out that it’s a satire site. Instead they work it like a real story.

Crunch

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Re: Conservative Onion equivalent
« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2019, 06:30:41 PM »
For another great satire site, check out Duffel Blog. For those of us that were in the military, this site is often hysterical.

https://www.duffelblog.com/

Wayward Son

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Re: Conservative Onion equivalent
« Reply #5 on: August 07, 2019, 06:42:16 PM »
If that were true, Snopes would merely point out that it’s a satire site. Instead they work it like a real story.

Snopes always points out that when stories come from a satire site.  See for yourself.  But since some gullible fools think they are true, they rate it's actual truthfulness, just for them.

Don't blame Scopes.  Blame the MAGAs that can't tell truth from satire.  ::)

D.W.

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Re: Conservative Onion equivalent
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2019, 08:33:42 AM »
While I am in the habit of checking sources when a story seems TOO absurd, you gotta admit, the line between satire and reality is mighty blurry these days.   ::)

There's a lot of *censored* in today's news that The Onion's editors likely would have taken a hard pass on as satire 10 years ago because it was too out there.

NobleHunter

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Re: Conservative Onion equivalent
« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2019, 11:54:08 AM »
Usually, Snopes' articles on Babylon Bee are prompted by social media posts which strip some or all of the context of the articles. They do have some without reference to social media which seems like bad practice. In any case, Snopes does repeat several times per article than BB is a satire site.

TheDrake

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Re: Conservative Onion equivalent
« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2019, 02:29:20 PM »

TheDrake

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Re: Conservative Onion equivalent
« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2019, 04:26:32 PM »
It is useful to look at the listings of articles under Snopes Junk News category.

Many of these come from places that claim to be satire, but instead tend toward inflammatory clickbait.

Quote
“BeBest.website” is part of a network of purportedly satirical websites run by junk news purveyor Christopher Blair. Blair frequently creates inflammatory content that goes viral online and shields himself from scrutiny of the ramifications of his business by claiming his work is solely for comedic value.

On July 16, 2019, another Blair website posted a story claiming that U.S. Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez had complained that “we pay soldiers too much.” Among the people who may have not “understood” this post was satire was a police officer in Louisiana who shared the story on Facebook with a threat against Ocasio-Cortez’s life, writing: “This vile idiot needs a round … and I don’t mean the kind she used to serve.” That officer, and another who liked his statement on Facebook, were fired on July 22 after news media reports exposed the posts.

I think the classification comes when something gets passed around virally and treated as real news, like a story about Colin Kapernick trying to get the NFL to stop playing the anthem.

Snopes clearly draws a line between a legitimate satire site and a site posing as real news. It appears the issue here is that Facebook used their "Junk News" category to send Babylon Bee a warning without any person actually reading what Snopes had to say.

I think it probably has more to do with how people are sharing these things. The Onion probably gets passed around with "ha ha"comments, or "funny". BB articles are being shared with "this is what's wrong with liberals!"

There's also the matter of their titles, they don't look quite as obvious as the Onion's, at least to me.

One such: Did U.S. Rep. Ilhan Omar Say ‘If Israel Is So Innocent, Then Why Do They Insist on Being Jews?’

That's more mean spirited than funny, and honestly the things that she says are over the top enough that anything would be hard to rule out.

Compare to the Onion: New Amazon Service Lets Customers Boost Shipping Speed With Easy One-Click Charge To Whip Delivery Person

Biting satire to be sure, but it is far more absurd and easier to spot.

Another couple, one from each publication:

‘Sorry About The Tornado Or Whatever,’ Says Trump Wolfing Down Bowl Of Chili While Consoling El Paso Shooting Victim

Democrats Propose Creation Of National Trump Voter Registry

Now, they don't deserve to lose their rankings over being less funny than the Onion, but I think it demonstrates how it is much easier for BB to be retweeted as actual news.

Seriati

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Re: Conservative Onion equivalent
« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2019, 05:32:40 PM »
It is useful to look at the listings of articles under Snopes Junk News category.

Many of these come from places that claim to be satire, but instead tend toward inflammatory clickbait.

"Claim to be satire."   Really?  How about obviously are satire.  The labelling and write up you quoted really is just one sided eye of the beholder nonsense.

It's been a long observation of mine that while the left produces far more comedians than the right, the left has less ability to laugh when its the but of the joke.

Quote
There's also the matter of their titles, they don't look quite as obvious as the Onion's, at least to me.

One such: Did U.S. Rep. Ilhan Omar Say ‘If Israel Is So Innocent, Then Why Do They Insist on Being Jews?’

That's more mean spirited than funny, and honestly the things that she says are over the top enough that anything would be hard to rule out.

Compare to the Onion: New Amazon Service Lets Customers Boost Shipping Speed With Easy One-Click Charge To Whip Delivery Person

Really?  On the front page, "Rep. Crenshaw Crashes Through Roof of Capital Building Wielding Axe Forged in the Heart of a Dying Star."  Including a picture of him as Thor with lightening shooting out.

If that's not obvious, then all I can say is obvious is apparently in the "eye of the beholder."

Or how about, "Biden Aides Forced to Use Spray Bottle Again"?   Anyone with a brain (or without) not see that as satire?

Or how about, "Men Agree to Let Women Rule the World if they'll Stop Asking Questions During Football Games."?

I guess I could see how someone could believe this headline could actually be real, "California Mandates Conversion Therapy for Straight Kids."  But I've certainly, seen onion headlines that could be real.

Quote
Now, they don't deserve to lose their rankings over being less funny than the Onion, but I think it demonstrates how it is much easier for BB to be retweeted as actual news.

You think that's less likely to be confused with real news than this one from the onion, "Poll Finds 84% Say Americans Angrier than a Generation Ago."  That wouldn't shock anyone as a real news story.

I think the argument you're making is kind of silly.  The fact that a good Satire could fool someone doesn't make "A Modest Proposal" into fake news.

TheDrake

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Re: Conservative Onion equivalent
« Reply #11 on: August 08, 2019, 06:10:11 PM »
Obvious on an article by article basis. Some BB headlines are wildly obvious as well as amusing. I don't think we'll be seeing snopes fact checking the Crenshaw article, will we?

I'm not describing their articles as anything. Neither is snopes. They are responding to how the general public is sharing and using those articles. That's how they come to the attention of snopes in the first place. It is certainly possible that someone could take Onion headlines as real, but they are also less likely to be shared around with people who think they are real.

Or, you could choose to believe that Snopes secretly hunts down semi-obscure conservative satirical sites and plots to systematically suppress their right to crack jokes at the expense of liberals.

Bottom line is, enough people receiving retweeted or facebooked references started going to snopes to see if it was true. Snopes then has two choices, they can ignore it and not investigate, or they can investigate and correctly identify it is false as a service for users.

I don't know how you figure that a false quote about cortez thinking soldiers get paid too much is funny or qualifies as satire. I guess I don't get the gag. AOC is a liberal and of course liberals hate soldiers because.... huh? It's really a meta-gag, because its funny to see how many people they can get to shove their headline along without ever clicking through to the well-labelled actual article.

TheDrake

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Re: Conservative Onion equivalent
« Reply #12 on: August 08, 2019, 06:40:05 PM »
Interesting take on humor and political leaning.

Quote
Young began to wonder whether this might explain why liberals were attracted in greater numbers to TV shows that employ irony. Stephen Colbert, for example, may say that he’s looking forward to the sunny weather that global warming will bring, and the audience members know this isn’t what he really means. But they have to wonder: Is he making fun of the kind of conservative who would say something so egregious? Or is he making fun of arrogant liberals who think that conservatives hold such extreme views?

As Young noticed, this is a kind of ambiguity that liberals tend to find more satisfying and culturally familiar than conservatives do. In fact, a study out of Ohio State University found that a surprising number of conservatives who were shown Colbert clips were oblivious to the fact that he was joking.

In contrast, conservative talk radio humor tends to rely less on irony than straightforward indignation and hyperbole. When Rush Limbaugh took down Georgetown student and birth-control activist Sandra Fluke in 2012, he called her a “slut” in order to drive home his point about state-mandated birth control. After the liberal blogosphere erupted with derision, Limbaugh responded with more jokes, asking that Fluke post videos of her sex online so taxpayers could see what they were paying for.

These examples formed the kernel of Young’s theory that liberals and conservatives look for and see different kinds of humor.

Study details

TheDrake

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Re: Conservative Onion equivalent
« Reply #13 on: August 08, 2019, 06:49:35 PM »
And finally, the quote you gave "Poll Finds 84% Say Americans Angrier Than Generation Ago"? That is an actual study, its part of the onion's segment where they take a real news story and then have fake man-in-the-street interviews.

Quote
A majority of Americans believe the country is angrier than before, with 42% saying they were angrier now than this time last year, although 91% of respondents individuals were more likely to air their frustrations over social media than in person. What do you think?


“Knowing most of these people are probably just mad over some dumb bull*censored* makes me so angry I could kill them.”

SHANNA BURN • TANTRIC CLIMATOLOGIST


“To be fair, Americans from a generation ago never had to deal with this generation of Americans.”

ANNA RYDER • HABERDASHER


“This seems like an unfair comparison when you consider our parents’ generation didn’t even have loot boxes.”

The poll

Seriati

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Re: Conservative Onion equivalent
« Reply #14 on: August 08, 2019, 08:14:12 PM »
And finally, the quote you gave "Poll Finds 84% Say Americans Angrier Than Generation Ago"? That is an actual study, its part of the onion's segment where they take a real news story and then have fake man-in-the-street interviews.

Yep, now think about the implications for what you said above if the Onion deliberately mixes in real news with their fake news satire.  Still want to make the claim that the Onion is more obviously satire?

My own experience on humor is that some people like it and others don't and it's not strongly linked to ideology.  I love to laugh, and I love to find people that love to laugh, that reaches across ideology with my liberal friends who laugh being smarter and more open minded and my conservative friends who love to laugh being smarter and more open minded.  I think what I was really talking about is things like SNL, where the "humor" is really just meanness that's designed to demean a political viewpoint.  That hasn't always been the case.  I haven't found the "right wing" humor sources that are based on meanness rather than funniness.

NobleHunter

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Re: Conservative Onion equivalent
« Reply #15 on: August 08, 2019, 08:18:14 PM »
That's because it's harder to see meanness when you agree with the implied message.

Seriati

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Re: Conservative Onion equivalent
« Reply #16 on: August 08, 2019, 08:35:09 PM »
I think that's what's going on for SNL and the left, and for comedy and the left.  But I think it's really hard to find any comparable major conservative comedy centers.  If you listen to a comedy channel long enough, you'll find some conservatives and the humor is rarely meanness based.

I'd be happy to test out any conservative meanness humor sources you can identify.

TheDrake

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Re: Conservative Onion equivalent
« Reply #17 on: August 09, 2019, 10:29:29 AM »
I would be happy to do that. I just found one on Facebook calling itself the conservative comic dressing up a virtual aoc in a football helmet. I assume because she's retarded. Any such attempt is unhelpful, because anyone could rightfully claim that it is fringe and not representative. I'll throw it back and ask if you can show me conservative humor that is not mean.

Mind you, that's somewhat subjective. Some might call Baldwins Trump mean. But that is not its primary characteristic.

Seriati

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Re: Conservative Onion equivalent
« Reply #18 on: August 09, 2019, 11:47:03 AM »
I can't find anything related to a joke about AOC in a football helmet on Google.  I'm honestly not even sure I can designate a comedian that's "conservative," or more particularly that does "conservative" humor mean or otherwise.  There a couple of comedian's that are religious (Rabbis and such), but I have no idea of their politics, there are a couple that focus on patriotic lymrics, and a few that touch on issues that appeal to conservatives (Colin Quinn for example has several bits about the Constitution), but again I can't say that aligns with their polictics.  There are a few, like Joe Piscapo, that have come out as conservative, but I'm not even aware of anything funny he's done.

Didn't find the AOC football helmet comedian, but I think we all recall mini-AOC and that was definitely mocking humor.  Not particularly nice, but I think we also recall that it was shut down by death threats to her whole family.

But I'm not seeing evidence of "Republican" or "Conservative" humor being primarily mean, just primarily rare.

TheDrake

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Re: Conservative Onion equivalent
« Reply #19 on: August 09, 2019, 12:40:12 PM »
Definitely rare. As I linked, there's an academic that tries to explain why. When it does occur, like just reading comments of people on breitbart, it tends to be direct and nasty rather than clever.

A breitbart comment on BLM : “Some people need to lighten up. Ha ha ha pun intended.”

It's anecdotal, but I discovered this with a simple "ha ha site:breitbart.com" search.

On huffpost.com, I find an article about the healing power of laughter that somehow includes yoga.

I'm not pretending that I've proved anything by this tiny sampling, just trying to illustrate my hypothesis.

Seriati

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Re: Conservative Onion equivalent
« Reply #20 on: August 09, 2019, 01:42:22 PM »
Definitely rare. As I linked, there's an academic that tries to explain why. When it does occur, like just reading comments of people on breitbart, it tends to be direct and nasty rather than clever.

If that were a true statement, then we could point to the nasty direct conservative comedians.  If it were true, then there would be an open market with millions of fans (and conservatives have money to spend) for nasty direct comedians.  Instead you see them going to see Jim Gaffigan with generally family friendly humor or Seinfield, with humor that tends to steer clear of direct politics.

You can not convince by stating a premise as true, and then not being able to actually point to it being implemented in practice.  People of all stripes like mocking humor, the Germans even have the word Schadenfruede for one branch of such negative humor, and again it appeals to a lot of people of all stripes.

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A breitbart comment on BLM : “Some people need to lighten up. Ha ha ha pun intended.”

It's anecdotal, but I discovered this with a simple "ha ha site:breitbart.com" search.

That's just racist, I've heard liberals make racist jokes (less now than before), and jokes that play on racist tropes.  I mean some of Chris Rock's performances are nothing but playing on racist memes.

But that's a very odd thing to cite.  Are you asserting that Breitbart is a comedy site?  Or that the racist joke has a broad appeal?  Finding nasty jokes isn't evidence that a comedian could get a broad audience on them?  I mean last I checked, a straight up KKK comedian would be more likely to get killed than to sell out any show no matter how small the venue.

Quote
On huffpost.com, I find an article about the healing power of laughter that somehow includes yoga.

I'm not pretending that I've proved anything by this tiny sampling, just trying to illustrate my hypothesis.

I don't think the hypothesis can be illustrated anecdotally.  If the claim is about 10's of millions of people having a specific humor preference, then the evidence should appear in something they watched.  I mean I've heard Tim Allen's show is appealling to conservatives (didn't watch it however), is it based on this meanness idea?  What about RoseAnne before she got kicked (I'd heard it was more compassionate, and she specifically got rejected for the kind of nastiness that you seem to be implying).

Seriously, evidence of a trend preference should be easily visible in a large population.

TheDrake

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Re: Conservative Onion equivalent
« Reply #21 on: August 09, 2019, 01:50:05 PM »
A lot of conservatives think Rush Limbaugh is hilarious, I already cited that example of mean spirited laughs. Is he a comedian? No. But I also pointed out theories that explain WHY there aren't conservative comedians, including the lifestyle of a comedian. Conservative people are unlikely to huddle in a crappy loft in Manhattan handing out flyers to tourists and hoping to pick up a 5 minute set at a second rate comedy club at 1am.

Conservative people also tend away from the concentrated urban areas that are conducive to even having a comedy club, or going to a comedy club. People don't just spring forth onto a late night tv show, they generally start small and work up.

Fenring

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Re: Conservative Onion equivalent
« Reply #22 on: August 09, 2019, 02:13:21 PM »
It's not just
Conservative people are unlikely to huddle in a crappy loft in Manhattan handing out flyers to tourists and hoping to pick up a 5 minute set at a second rate comedy club at 1am.

Conservative people also tend away from the concentrated urban areas that are conducive to even having a comedy club, or going to a comedy club. People don't just spring forth onto a late night tv show, they generally start small and work up.

It's not just that; I think there are both cultural and personality factors in play as well.

For one thing, one huge haven of comedy is New York City, and although NYC does have a mix of liberals and conservatives, the artistic scene specifically and especially the 'off-the-beaten-path' scene is overwhemlingly liberal people. So culturally there's an intensely liberal vibe in both the low levels of the theatre scene and the comedy scene as well. That's going to be a potentially grating for a conservative person just in terms of the fact that these are the people you'll be hanging around all the time. I don't know other comedy cities (like Chicago) all that well I would guess it's a similar situation. That's to say nothing of conservatives who may also have religious views and don't care to hang around people who routinely bash religion or talk about sex culture with a huge grin.

The other side of it is that I think performance arts like acting, singing, and comedy, largely favor the sort of person very open to creative experimention and who learn to tolerate (if not enjoy) the humiliation of repeated failures. This is especially bad for comics, where a dead house means the act becomes very unpleasant for all involved. At least in acting your audience may not laugh even while enjoying other aspects of the peformance. I've heard many times how a stand-up comic in particular has to be willing to spend a lot of alone time mulling over material, usually throwing most of it out, and that this can be a dismal activity. But it would be even worse for a person of a personality type requiring regular positive feedback at 'accomplishing things', and who want to know at all times 'how it's going'. But in the arts, and especially comedy, you really never know how it's going, and you're venturing into this nebulous world where you're creating both jokes, and a persona to tell them, and it's entirely new because you can't really copy someone else's formula for how it should work. There basically is no "should", and I suspect this entire type of activity is a huge turnoff to people of a conservative mindset.

Seriati

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Re: Conservative Onion equivalent
« Reply #23 on: August 09, 2019, 02:47:58 PM »
A lot of conservatives think Rush Limbaugh is hilarious, I already cited that example of mean spirited laughs. Is he a comedian? No.

I don't think conservatives tune it to Rush to seek out humor.  Most hosts are personable and that often includes humor.

Quote
But I also pointed out theories that explain WHY there aren't conservative comedians, including the lifestyle of a comedian. Conservative people are unlikely to huddle in a crappy loft in Manhattan handing out flyers to tourists and hoping to pick up a 5 minute set at a second rate comedy club at 1am.

But you're confusing the issue.  There's a claim about why Conservatives don't become comedians, and that makes some sense (I note, it's the kind of soft psychology that people really object to when it's used to explain gender differences), even if it is seriously doubtful that out of 10's of millions of conservatives none would have the target mentality.

But it's the second issue you are ignoring.  If there's an audience of 10's of millions that are looking for a humor type, you wouldn't even have to be a conservative to see the money opportunity.  In fact, if you remember the end of The Last Supper you'd know that would occur. 

There should be demographic evidence that conservative households follow specific "mean humor" shows in preference to others.  Whether you think they shy away from comedy clubs is barely relevant in a world where they are consuming 6+ hours of entertainment a day.

TheDrake

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Re: Conservative Onion equivalent
« Reply #24 on: August 09, 2019, 03:22:26 PM »
A not very scientific digital poll

Some of it isn't about "mean" but more about direct. Tim Allen's shows fall into a not-mean brand, instead portraying a "traditional" family setting peppered with Dad jokes. There's nothing subtle about it. 0% of liberals like this show. Partly I suppose that they don't like his conservative values, but I think largely because the jokes are not funny. From a transcript.

Quote
Mom: Honey, you're in real trouble here. You broke the most important rule.
Daughter: I know. I missed curfew.
Mom: No. You let your dad find out.

Cue the laugh track. It's predictable humor, which I think is appealing to a conservative who generally doesn't like change. To others it is stale and uninteresting. But you'd better believe the creators of the show targetted a conservative demographic.

Bob's burgers is eclectic and often very different from one week to the next, not to mention animated. Very liberal audience, by the poll. Brooklyn 99 - liberal. Modern family? I think you already know that one. Better call saul - again.

The programming with high conservative ratings? Dramas about cops, firefighters, and military.

The entertainment market recognizes that you are unlikely to lure conservatives most comedy that relies on edgy provocative ideas, they'd rather watch heroic unambiguous characters.

As far as stand up, I did find a troupe calling themselves the deplorables

promo video

I think I heard a total of one joke in the whole thing, its marketed as a political rally more than comedy.

review

Quote
But walking into the auditorium last Friday night and finding myself surrounded by a smattering of Proud Boys and soccer moms wearing "*censored* Antifa" T-shirts…well, "strange" probably isn't the right word. It was downright surreal.

Joey Gibson and a few Patriot Prayer members made a semi-dramatic entrance, marching from a block away, each carrying an American flag attached to a PVC pole.

Moments later, a white stretch limo pulled up and two guys popped out, wearing matching MAGA hats and brick-patterned tuxedos meant to represent the border wall.

[Michael Loftus's] set contained a few jokes and impressions of former presidents, but he mostly just pandered to the base, with plenty of applause breaks for any mention of Trump and the general Republican brand.

Up next was Brandon Tatum. A black former Democrat and police officer, he offered what was more of a Republican salvation story than a standup set, describing his conservative awakening after Obama "trashed the police."

Watching 500 Costco conservatives wave their arms side to side while mocking Pelosi's lisp and singing, "Nancy Pelosi, go spit on somebody else," was truly a sight to behold. During an aside, he asked the crowd, "Isn't it nice to have a president with balls, and a first lady without some?"

But hey, the crowd clearly enjoyed it. A man named Pat described the show as "having the spirit of an annual stockholders meeting," which I thought was apt. They weren't really here to laugh, necessarily. They came to celebrate their victories and hang out with like-minded people. They got what they paid for.

TheDeamon

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Re: Conservative Onion equivalent
« Reply #25 on: August 09, 2019, 03:53:06 PM »
A lot of conservatives think Rush Limbaugh is hilarious, I already cited that example of mean spirited laughs. Is he a comedian? No. But I also pointed out theories that explain WHY there aren't conservative comedians, including the lifestyle of a comedian. Conservative people are unlikely to huddle in a crappy loft in Manhattan handing out flyers to tourists and hoping to pick up a 5 minute set at a second rate comedy club at 1am.

Rush Limbaugh is political satire and commentary. Always has been. Satire tends to be a bit more on the "biting end" of things.

That said, he often makes dozens of (satire) jokes over the course of any given week. That you can only cite a small handful of "mean spirited" ones over the course of a decade tends to suggest his larger "body of work" is far more mundane.

And I'd love to see the comedian with a large body of work who doesn't have a small list of "mean jokes" they've thrown out there from time to time. It just happens that most of them don't have special interest groups dissecting every minute of their time up on stage or at other performance venues. So they try their joke somewhere, see "it doesn't work" and then pretend it never happened.

TheDrake

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Re: Conservative Onion equivalent
« Reply #26 on: August 09, 2019, 04:39:30 PM »
Quote
I watched the entire clip, and never laughed once.  Not even close.  And I wasn’t trying to suppress laughter, either.

Though he had an energetic and amiable delivery, I just didn’t find Rush funny.

At one point, Rush even tells a joke about Larry King going to heaven–Larry King is God’s gift to comedians. Even that wasn’t funny.

During the clip, you can hear the audience rolling in the aisles, though. You hear genuine belly laughs, and the clip is from CSPAN, so you know they didn’t have the budget to add in a laugh track.

Limbaugh’s audience finds him to be hysterically funny.

Limbaugh

These remarks aren't particularly mean, so maybe I've only heard the most outrageous quotes. They also aren't particularly funny, like the bit where he refers to his head of security as Joseph Stalin.

Satire isn't "aren't liberals stupid, hehehe" its a deliberate exaggeration of a trait or its an absurd situation.

A few Onion headlines about clinton:

New Clinton Memoir: ‘We All Made Mistakes But You Made Most Of Them’
Wall Street Executive Telling Friend How Amazing It Is To See Clinton Live
Hillary Clinton Holds Infant Grandson Upside Down By Ankle In Front Of Convention Crowd

Babylon Bee does it right also:

Clintons Outnumber Crowd At Latest Speaking Engagement
Hillary Clinton Sends 30,000 Emails On Mission To Investigate Black Hole

All of these share common traits. They can't be mistaken for a real news story, they put a quick twist on their traits, and they wouldn't make very many people angry.

Wayward Son

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Re: Conservative Onion equivalent
« Reply #27 on: August 16, 2019, 04:11:15 PM »
FYI, Snopes did a study to see estimate how many Americans actually believed satirical stories like those from The Babylon Bee and The Onion.  See the article for methodology.

Of the top 5 most-believed Babylon Bee articles, between 19 and 28 percent of the study's Republicans believed they were "definitely true," as opposed to 6 to 14 percent of the Democrats.

OTOH, of the top 5 most-believed Onion articles, between 12 and 14 percent of the study's Democrats through they were "definitely true," while only 5 to 9 percent of the Republicans did.

So based on that one study, it does seem that quite a number of people believe obviously-satirical stories, on both sides of the aisle.

TheDrake

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Re: Conservative Onion equivalent
« Reply #28 on: August 16, 2019, 04:18:27 PM »
Interesting, but in the interest of fact checking, Snopes didn't do the study they just reblogged it. The study was done by researchers at OSU.

Seriati

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Re: Conservative Onion equivalent
« Reply #29 on: August 19, 2019, 02:40:24 PM »
Lol, how funny came across this today, which heavily criticizes the study Snope's cites as manipulated.  If it's an accurate account, I agree.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/snopes-promotes-junk-science-study-in-a-continuation-of-its-bizarre-grudge-against-the-babylon-bee

I don't think there's any excuse for having paraphrased the headlines.

TheDrake

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Re: Conservative Onion equivalent
« Reply #30 on: August 19, 2019, 03:43:02 PM »
Interesting. I think if you are studying whether satirical ideas are perceived as true, there's a legitimate reason to describe the belief rather than copy the headline. It does leave things fuzzier. The Omar quote is particularly problematic. Some people think Jews are interchangeable with Israel to the point that if you criticize Israel you are anti-semitic. They might not see that as satire, because they hear her criticism of Israel as criticism of Jews. Being wrong about something doesn't mean that you can't identify satire.

Seriati

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Re: Conservative Onion equivalent
« Reply #31 on: August 19, 2019, 04:20:51 PM »
The problem though is that when you paraphrase you introduce your own bias.  All it takes to make BabylonBee seem more deceiving than The Onion, is the spin you put on the idea that you're testing.

Using the actual words keeps out the bias.  It's absolutely unforgivable in this kind of study to introduce that kind of bias.

NobleHunter

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Re: Conservative Onion equivalent
« Reply #32 on: August 19, 2019, 04:34:57 PM »
If they had access, I think it'd be better to get a metric about interactions on Facebook. A lot of snopes' reporting on the subject is based on social media which strips the material of its context and seems to be passed around as true.

ETA: that's how the old Harry Potter article by The Onion got passed off as real back in the day.

TheDrake

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Re: Conservative Onion equivalent
« Reply #33 on: August 19, 2019, 06:15:14 PM »
From the author's article:

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We discovered that many of the false stories weren’t the kind that were trying to intentionally deceive their readers; they actually came from satirical sites, and many people seemed to believe them.

Washington Examiner flips this on its head.

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Again, the researchers paraphrased joke headlines, asked respondents if they thought they were true, and then concluded from there that the Babylon Bee is deceiving people.

Fake news. They didn't in any way shape or form conclude that BB was deceiving anyone. The study didn't even prove that the respondents had ever read the BB. It was only designed to test whether people believed the base story was true.

Seriati

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Re: Conservative Onion equivalent
« Reply #34 on: August 20, 2019, 10:49:45 AM »
Just to give an example, they tested this:

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Most Americans believe that major media companies should apologize for pushing the now-debunked news story of collusion between President Trump and Russia.

Based on this headline:

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Nation Awaits Apology From Media That Pushed Fake News Story For Two Years

The two are not remotely the same, with the tested passage including a bunch of dog whistles that would cause a predetermined response.  For example, what Democrat is going to agree that the story is "debunked," answer very few.  Yet the basic test premise 'most Americans believe the media should apologize' is actually something that people could think is true.  So adding the virtue signal is included to ensure that you get a political result.

In any even the headline isn't even clearly satire, it could have just as easily appeared in the WSJ, but what it is, is an opinion.

TheDrake

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Re: Conservative Onion equivalent
« Reply #35 on: August 20, 2019, 11:17:03 AM »
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Most Americans believe that major media companies should apologize for pushing the now-debunked news story of collusion between President Trump and Russia.

This is not an opinion, it is a question about opinions. "Most Americans believe that major media should apologize" - that is false on its face for anyone paying attention. "most americans" implies well over 50%.

Anyway, the interpretation of a study is more important than anything else. If one were to try to use the data to support the idea that either Republicans are more gullible, or that BB is less satirical, that would be a failure to understand the hypothesis.

The researchers were trying to show the wider picture, that there are a significant number of people who believe things that are largely untrue. They do not differentiate cause and effect here - did the satire appear because of a widely held belief in something untrue, or did it inspire it?

I do wish the actual study were available. I don't have a high opinion of the study, but it could be lowered with more information.

NobleHunter

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Re: Conservative Onion equivalent
« Reply #36 on: August 20, 2019, 11:55:24 AM »
I miss the old snopes. I've never liked the new social-media-oriented version.

TheDrake

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Re: Conservative Onion equivalent
« Reply #37 on: August 28, 2019, 08:51:03 AM »
This really should have been done by Babylon, but they aren't funny enough. (Onion)

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AKRON, OH—Revealing a strategy for protecting himself from criticism, local man Blake Cotton reportedly speculated Wednesday that if anyone ever calls him out on privilege, he’ll just make something up about being molested. “I mean, if someone ever tells me to think about how my position as a white male informs my viewpoint, I’ll probably just say that my dad diddled me,” said Cotton, explaining that pretending he was sexually abused by a camp counselor or touched by a priest was a pretty foolproof plan for getting people off his back for being a cisgendered straight man. “Granted, I’m from a pretty wealthy family, but all I really have to do is cryptically allude to what happens in rich homes behind closed doors. There’s no way they’re asking follow-up questions after that, and if they do, I can claim that I repressed all the memories from the traumatic event and I’m golden.” At press time, the person Cotton was speaking to informed him that they had also been molested.