Author Topic: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:  (Read 123806 times)

DonaldD

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #950 on: June 29, 2020, 03:32:41 PM »
In addition to the "'prejudice" version that Trump displays regularly, he has also shown he ascribes to the "belief that different races possess distinct characteristics" definition - most notably with his Jew/money counter vs blacks remarks.

DonaldD

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #951 on: June 29, 2020, 03:38:28 PM »
That is why the claim "but I do not have negative attitudes towards minorities" is considered to be a non-answer to the charge that one is racist.

True for several reasons.  The biggest is that it often isn't true.  Someone who hasn't been confronted with acting on their so-called principles isn't a necessarily reliable witness to their own thoughts and feelings.  There is also "the soft bigotry of low expectations," which is how most mainstream racists think and behave.
Yes - and it is instructive that Trump has almost literally said these very words.  But Donald Trump among the least self-aware people on the planet; additionally, he is also one of the least trustworthy people on the planet.  Him stating that he has no negative attitudes holds exactly zero weight and is of course a non-answer.

DonaldD

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #952 on: June 29, 2020, 03:43:11 PM »
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“I have black guys counting my money. … I hate it," Trump told John R. O'Donnell, the former president of Trump Plaza Hotel & Casino, according O'Donnell's account in his 1991 book "Trumped!" "The only guys I want counting my money are short guys that wear yarmulkes all day."

Trump, according to O'Donnell, went on to say, "'Laziness is a trait in blacks. It really is, I believe that."

In an interview with Playboy in 1999, Trump remarked that "[t]he stuff O'Donnell wrote about me is probably true. The guy's a f----g loser. A f----g loser. I brought the guy in to work for me; it turns out he didn't know that much about what he was doing. I think I met the guy two or three times total. And this guy goes off and writes a book about me, like he knows me!"

Wayward Son

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #953 on: June 29, 2020, 04:01:10 PM »
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The far left currently defines it as unequal outcomes, period full stop, which makes racism a systemic statement, not a matter of whether you believe X or Y.

The problem with this definition is that it is very hard for a person's beliefs not to influence their actions.

If someone believes that blacks are inferior, then when they see a black name or a black face applying for a job, they will probably come to the belief that that person would be an inferior worker, whether consciously or not, and not hire them.  Similarly, a police officer who believes that blacks are more violent than whites will tend to find a black person's actions more threatening than a white person's, and may react with greater force to the black person's actions, up to and including deadly force.

And so you get unequal outcomes. :(

Prejudice, bigotry, and such are all part of racism, if only by being the underlying causes.  That makes them no less racist than overt, conscious actions.

Now, admittedly, we cannot completely control our thoughts.  And I do believe that, at least subconsciously, everyone is racist in one way or another.  But there are those who try to mitigate their own racism.  There are others who deny it, ignore it, or even embrace it.  And I think we can all agree that Trump does not try to mitigate his own racism.  Nor acknowledge it.  And while he may not have embraced it to the point of taking direct, overt action on it, I don't think anyone could say that his behavior shows anything better than denial.  And even a person who denies he is a racist can be a racist.

TheDeamon

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #954 on: June 29, 2020, 06:10:36 PM »
Remember, TheDeamon, there are also different degrees of racism.

You don't have to be a full-fledge KKK member who wants to ship back all the blacks to Africa to be a racist.  Just quietly believing that black are less intelligent, less moral, and inferior to you and/or everyone else would also be considered racist.  As would turning a blind eye to racist actions by others[/u.

All these types of racism are not equally bad, but they are all forms of racism.  You don't have to actively be trying to hurt blacks or others groups to be racist.  But that doesn't mean a person is not racist.

I was thinking this needed to be addressed as I was returning to my computer. Sad to see I wasn't wrong, in your world everything can be, and is, potentially racist. Things are being conflated and confused, and it actually ignores the real problem in play. But I'll come back to that later. First to clear out the post backlog.

These are not degrees of racism, you are mixing up your terms. What you are describing include prejudice, stereotyping, and perhaps racism as well, but merely having an improper thought "is not" racism. The far left currently defines it as unequal outcomes, period full stop, which makes racism a systemic statement, not a matter of whether you believe X or Y. That is why the claim "but I do not have negative attitudes towards minorities" is considered to be a non-answer to the charge that one is racist. The sort of prejudice and stereotyping you describe can exist inside a racist system, but also not.  Your lingo is 20 years out of date.

What is more ironic is that in their pursuit of "an equal outcome" they're pursuing an agenda which says minority groups can't operate on an equal playing field unless white males kneel down and accept whatever is thrown their way. If that isn't racist on its face, and people are incapable of acknowledging that the proposed solution is itself racist, further discourse is pointless on the topic. But we are where we are, the elephant in the room is to be ignored at all costs. Instead you need to distract yourself with all these nice shiny things and acknowledge that two wrongs are somehow going to make a right without acknowledging that a second wrong is being committed to do so.

Remember, TheDeamon, there are also different degrees of racism.

You don't have to be a full-fledge KKK member who wants to ship back all the blacks to Africa to be a racist.  Just quietly believing that black are less intelligent, less moral, and inferior to you and/or everyone else would also be considered racist.  As would turning a blind eye to racist actions by others.

These are not degrees of racism, you are mixing up your terms. What you are describing include prejudice, stereotyping, and perhaps racism as well

I beg to differ.  Having prejudice against blacks and stereotyping them [as inferior] is racism.

So California's legislature seeking to pass ACA-5 to repeal the Equal right protection in their state constitution for the purpose of being able to award millions of dollars worth of contracts to minority and woman owned businesses on the basis of their race, gender, or sexual identity is not racist, sexist, or bigoted in any way shape or form? They decided these people are unable to compete on the basis of those things, so we need to enact special laws "to help them" do so?

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Someone who hasn't been confronted with acting on their so-called principles isn't a necessarily reliable witness to their own thoughts and feelings.  There is also "the soft bigotry of low expectations," which is how most mainstream racists think and behave.

I'm going to point back to the justifications given by Democrats for the ACA 5 legislation in California.

If someone believes that blacks are inferior, then when they see a black name or a black face applying for a job, they will probably come to the belief that that person would be an inferior worker, whether consciously or not, and not hire them.  Similarly, a police officer who believes that blacks are more violent than whites will tend to find a black person's actions more threatening than a white person's, and may react with greater force to the black person's actions, up to and including deadly force.

https://www.ojjdp.gov/ojstatbb/crime/ucr.asp?table_in=2
For 2018, offense and race of the offender arrested:
Murder and nonnegligent manslaughter: All - 11,970 White - 5,280 (44.1%)  Black - 6,380 (53.3%)
Robbery: All - 88,130 White - 38,300 (43.5%) Black - 47,750 (54.2%)
Aggravated assault: All - 395,800 White - 245,050 (61.9%)  Black - 133,330 (33.7%)
Burglary: All - 178,610 White - 121,570 (68.1%) Black - 52,610 (29.5%)
Simple assault:   All - 1,063,540 White - 685,120 (64.4%) Black - 340,410 (32%)

Violent crimes*:   All - 495,900 White - 288,620 (58.2%) Black - 187,470 (37.8%)
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* The "violent crimes" category includes the offenses of murder, robbery, and aggravated assault and is presented as an alternative to the Violent Crime Index, which is not available as a result of the change to the definition of rape in 2013. In any given year prior to the change in the rape definition, these three offenses accounted for more than 95% of arrests for Violent Crime Index offenses.

Population estimates, July 1, 2019, (V2019)
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White alone, percent   76.3%
Black or African American alone, percent(a)   13.4%
American Indian and Alaska Native alone, percent(a)   1.3%
Asian alone, percent(a)   5.9%
Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander alone, percent(a)   0.2%
Two or More Races, percent   2.8%
Hispanic or Latino, percent(b)   18.5%
White alone, not Hispanic or Latino, percent   60.1%

So the US Census estimates Blacks on July 1, 2019 accounted for somewhere between 13.4% and 16.2% of the population.
But they account for 53% of all murder arrests, 54% of all robbery arrests, nearly 34% of all aggravated assault arrests, and 32% of all simple assault arrests. I wonder why police might be more on edge when dealing with a black person if they've been looking at statistics like the Office of Juvenile Justice and Delinquent Prevention provided above.

It is racist after a fashion, by every definition of the word, but it is not racist for reasons that many people would like to believe, it's because that is what the data indicates. Blacks are very disproportionately likely to be linked to criminal activity and violent acts than their share of the population would otherwise indicate should be the case. Even in simple assaults which was their "best showing" in the offenses I listed, 32% of all arrests is nearly double the census estimate of between 13.4% and 16.2% (variability is due to persons of mixed race--not all of them will be mixed with blacks)

Prejudice, bigotry, and such are all part of racism, if only by being the underlying causes.  That makes them no less racist than overt, conscious actions.

Except racism isn't the underlying cause, it's a symptom of something else.

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Now, admittedly, we cannot completely control our thoughts.  And I do believe that, at least subconsciously, everyone is racist in one way or another.  But there are those who try to mitigate their own racism.  There are others who deny it, ignore it, or even embrace it.  And I think we can all agree that Trump does not try to mitigate his own racism.  Nor acknowledge it.  And while he may not have embraced it to the point of taking direct, overt action on it, I don't think anyone could say that his behavior shows anything better than denial.  And even a person who denies he is a racist can be a racist.

Most of what you're wanting to call racism isn't racism at all. It is more correctly called tribalism where "tribe" can be a very ephemeral thing.

And the big thing about tribalism is people want to feel empowered, and they'll often seek that empowerment by means of identifying with a tribe.

After their tribe has been defined, that search for empowerment takes the next step. They seek to denigrate and degrade those of any opposing tribe they can identify.

Racism is simply the simplest expression of tribalism because skin color and other physical characteristics are not easily changed. But it isn't the only form that tribalism can take.

Modern day hate groups in the United States don't operate along racial lines anymore. They now operate along ideological ones. And there is plenty of historical precedent for that. Just ask any Mormon, Catholic, or Jew about that just that.

Hate groups at their core only care about one thing: Power. Which brings us back to people wanting "to feel empowered." Those groups do that, they'll give a nice song and dance about how your life sucks because (insert other tribal group here) is doing horrible things and rigging the system against them. If the system hadn't been rigged against you, your life could have been sunshine, rainbows, and unicorns. So it isn't your fault your life sucks, blame that other tribe for it, and help us punish them for them misdeeds. (because people also don't like to take responsibility for their own mistakes -- Just look at Donald Trump, he's ample proof of that, its always the fault of somebody else)

Today's populist hate groups ironically call themselves anti-hate groups. Many of them show all the hallmarks, high rhetoric, lots of assertions of "it's not your fault, you're a victim of the system too." Very vague assertions about what to do, non-falsifiable claims, and calls for you to "take action" by helping them tear down the existing system so they give you sunshine, rainbows and unicorns.

Only they won't do that. They're only as inclusive as they are so long as they think they need people to support their cause. As they start feeling their power, they'll become more selective in who their favored peoples are. After all, it is all about power, and if everybody is equal, nobody has any power. So they'll start targeting their own ranks for purging.

In fact, if they follow the Soviet, Fascist, and Moaist playbook, the first ones to go will be the ones who helped organize things in the first place, they're the biggest threat in possibly countering what they want to do.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2020, 06:12:39 PM by TheDeamon »

rightleft22

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #955 on: June 29, 2020, 06:16:25 PM »
I have never heard anyone define racism in such a way that it would include themselves.  At least not often.
By such definitions racism is always something that we and those we support are not.

In dealing with racism we look to individuals, fix the individuals and we fix racism. Fix the bad apples and we fix the system. Only its not working perhaps because by focusing on the individual, which is never us, we fail to adders the racism and inequality within the system itself. A system that often protects the bad actors even when it doesn't want to.

I like the idea of Ibram X to focus on being 'antiracist'

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"To be antiracist is to think nothing is behaviorally wrong or right -- inferior or superior -- with any of the racial groups. Whenever the antiracist sees individuals behaving positively or negatively, the antiracist sees exactly that: individuals behaving positively or negatively, not representatives of whole races. To be antiracist is to deracialize behavior, to remove the tattooed stereotype from every radicalized body. Behavior is something humans do, not races do."

Becoming antiracist requires every individual to choose every day to think, act and advocate for equality, which will require changing systems and policies that may have gone unexamined for a long time.

When a person fails to be anti-racist it is a failing that doesn't require the stigmatization of the individual as 'being' racist. The intention is left open to lean better. And learning better do better.

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For Kendi, there’s no middle ground. Actions, ideas and policies are either racist or not. He points to the fact that racist has a dictionary definition, one that should be applied evenly to anyone, of any race, who expresses racist ideas or who supports racist policies.

He contends that white supremacists have won the rhetorical battle by successfully positioning the term “racist” as a personal attack, that being racist makes you a bad person.

“We should not be saying this is who a person is,” Kendi said. “We should be saying this is what a person is doing in the moment. And the reason that’s critical is because when you study the history of racist ideas and antiracist ideas, you find the same person saying both racist and antiracist ideas in the same book, in the same speech, in the same article. So then, how would you define that person in a general sense?”


The question of Trump is if he is open to learning and doing better in the process of anti-racism?
« Last Edit: June 29, 2020, 06:22:50 PM by rightleft22 »

Kasandra

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #956 on: June 29, 2020, 06:57:06 PM »
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So California's legislature seeking to pass ACA-5 to repeal the Equal right protection in their state constitution for the purpose of being able to award millions of dollars worth of contracts to minority and woman owned businesses on the basis of their race, gender, or sexual identity is not racist, sexist, or bigoted in any way shape or form? They decided these people are unable to compete on the basis of those things, so we need to enact special laws "to help them" do so?

You're equating creating (or in this case repealing, though I'm taking your word for what they're doing) laws to guarantee access to services to people who are discriminated against because of their race to be racist?  I'll guess that you support people's rights to discriminate against people because of their race, if their religion encourages or allows it, because that's called "religious freedom."

Wayward Son

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #957 on: June 29, 2020, 08:58:55 PM »
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So California's legislature seeking to pass ACA-5 to repeal the Equal right protection in their state constitution for the purpose of being able to award millions of dollars worth of contracts to minority and woman owned businesses on the basis of their race, gender, or sexual identity is not racist, sexist, or bigoted in any way shape or form? They decided these people are unable to compete on the basis of those things, so we need to enact special laws "to help them" do so?

The problem is that just because everyone says they are not discriminating doesn't mean they are not.  You can say that people are not discriminating based on these criteria, but how can you be sure if you don't look at the statistics?

The statistics show that minority businesses used to get 30 percent of the contracts.  Now they get 3 percent.

Is it because they can't compete?  If so, why?  Why is it that these minorities can't compete with white businesses?  Is there something wrong with "those" people that prevents them from being as efficient?  Or is it because they are "those" people that the system prevents them from being as efficient?  Or is there something in the system that makes them to be not as efficient?

Remember, that law was enacted back during Pete Wilson's governorship, when the idea that pretending that no one sees race and such was supposed to make people not see it.  Instead, it just meant that some wouldn't have to admit to seeing it, find other reasons to reject minorities, and then declare that it race wasn't the reason because they didn't even notice it.

If you assume that minority businesses are just as efficient as white businesses, then they should get a proportional amount of contracts.  If you don't assume that, then why don't you?  Is there something "wrong" with those people?

Kasandra

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #958 on: June 30, 2020, 07:34:25 AM »
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Most of what you're wanting to call racism isn't racism at all. It is more correctly called tribalism where "tribe" can be a very ephemeral thing.

And the big thing about tribalism is people want to feel empowered, and they'll often seek that empowerment by means of identifying with a tribe.

After their tribe has been defined, that search for empowerment takes the next step. They seek to denigrate and degrade those of any opposing tribe they can identify.

Racism is simply the simplest expression of tribalism because skin color and other physical characteristics are not easily changed. But it isn't the only form that tribalism can take.

Modern day hate groups in the United States don't operate along racial lines anymore. They now operate along ideological ones. And there is plenty of historical precedent for that. Just ask any Mormon, Catholic, or Jew about that just that.

There is so much wrong with that brief soliloquy that I have to hold back my comments.  But first, let me assure you that I am not a racist.  You can take my word for that, because I just told you.  My friends also would say I'm not a racist, and I can attest that they aren't racists, either.

It's also probably true that most Jews in Germany wouldn't say that the Nazis were anti-semitic racists.  In fact, most of them tried to fit into society just like the Nazis, which proves that they were all part of the same tribe.  It didn't work out, but only for purely technical reasons, not because the Nazis were anti-semitic racists.

In modern America, what you call "hate groups" aren't hateful and certainly aren't tribalists, and they would tell you that if you ask them.  The religious groups that we might think hate blacks would explain to you, calmly I might add, that they are only following "God's order" and that all people, not just blacks, but also whites, should know and respect their proper place in society. You don't have to be a racist tribalist to see that.

It's really just a matter of empowerment, and there's just not enough power to go around.  It's just common sense that you would reserve as much power for yourself and your friends, your family, your church, your social caste as possible.

It just makes sense, and no offense intended.

DonaldD

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #959 on: June 30, 2020, 04:54:21 PM »
There's always a tweet: @realDonaldTrump 4:15 PM · Sep 30, 2014:
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Fact--Obama does not read his intelligence briefings nor does he get briefed in person by the CIA or DOD. Too busy I guess!
It's as if Trump has super-duper-precognition

DonaldD

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #960 on: June 30, 2020, 05:32:23 PM »
...does McEnany really speak for the president?

Kayleigh McEnany says Trump is ‘most informed person on planet Earth’ about threats to US

I guess Trump knew about, but ignored, the bounties that Russia placed on US armed forces personnel...  ::)

Or maybe, she meant that as of today, Trump is ‘most informed person on planet Earth’, but not as of yesterday, and no guarantees about tomorrow...

Kasandra

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #961 on: July 01, 2020, 10:55:47 AM »
This is why Trump is going down in November.  First he said he didn't know about the Russia bounties on US troops even though it was in his daily briefing book which he says he reads, then his Administration briefed Congress about it and Kayleigh McEnany says he's the most informed person in the world, and now he says it never happened, IT'S ANOTHER HOAX!

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The Russia Bounty story is just another made up by Fake News tale that is told only to damage me and the Republican Party. The secret source probably does not even exist, just like the story itself. If the discredited @nytimes has a source, reveal it. Just another HOAX!

I know they like to use this line in movies, but you can't make this stuff up.

Calling the Ornery Trump defense team!  'Splain us what's going on!!!!


DonaldD

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #963 on: July 01, 2020, 06:54:06 PM »
I can't figure out whether Trump is actually trying to destroy the Republican Party's chances this election cycle...  Trump: Black Lives Matter is a 'symbol of hate'

DonaldD

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #964 on: July 01, 2020, 10:07:22 PM »
Trump, speaking today:
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I think we're going to be very good with the coronavirus. I think that at some point that's going to sort of just disappear

Oh for Heaven's sake  ::)

Kasandra

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #965 on: July 01, 2020, 10:25:42 PM »
Trump, speaking today:
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I think we're going to be very good with the coronavirus. I think that at some point that's going to sort of just disappear

Oh for Heaven's sake  ::)

This is why Biden can afford to "stay in his basement" :).  Eventually Trump is going to realize that he's used up all his matches and still can't start a fire.  He'll have two choices when that time comes, either declare martial law or quit.  I think quitting isn't far-fetched, in which case I hope he waits until the week before the election.  They'll have to make him empty his pockets on the way out the door.  Trump Istanbul?

DonaldD

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #966 on: July 03, 2020, 06:42:27 AM »
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China was way early, and they’re getting under control just now. And Europe was way early, and they’re getting under control. We followed them with this terrible China virus and we are likewise getting under control
Why?  What is the point? 

The USA is now seeing per capita new case numbers roughly equivalent to the per capita peak numbers experienced in Italy, and those numbers are only likely to go up in the near future, at least until the new restrictions start having an effect.  New case numbers went from less than 40,000 per day (a record at the time) to 57,000 per day in 7 days - that's almost a 50% increase in a single week. Why lie about something that is so provable, and to which everybody is paying attention?  Does he literally think the number will magically drop tomorrow?

Is this to distract from the stories about Russian bounties?  Maybe the strategy is to create so much chaos, so much stupid, that people cannot focus on any particular stupid...


DonaldD

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #967 on: July 03, 2020, 06:52:28 AM »
We should all be furious about this - months of isolation, furloughs and layoffs, to get the viral load in the population down and manageable, and now the virus spread will require similar lockdowns be re-implemented, probably leading to a coup de grace for companies that barely managed to weather the initial storm.

It's either that, or just let many hundreds of thousands more people die, and somehow encourage the majority of people to put their lives and the lives of their family at risk in order to continue working, while forcing the rest of the world to cut off most contact with the country.  Did I mention I'm furious?

Kasandra

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #968 on: July 03, 2020, 07:38:43 AM »
Some health officials warn about an apocalyptic situation where the pandemic continues to accelerate through the US population, while at the same time cases are declining in other countries that took drastic, but in hindsight prescient and responsible measures.  Recent analyses have concluded that at least half of the deaths from C19 in the US didn't have to happen, wouldn't have happened if Trump had recognized the threat for what it was and met it head on.

But C19 is not the apocalypse; the apocalypse has already befallen us.  Everything Trump touches disintegrates. It's not that he has a reverse Midas touch, he's Typhoid Mary and without doubt the stupidest person ever to sit in the Oval Office.  I won't tediously list some of his most egregious disasters he's imposed on the rest of us, because he's not the apocalypse; the apocalypse is the people who haven't and likely won't rise up in anger and frustration about him and make him stop.

They voted for him in the 2016 election and are sticking by him now.  They are his minions in Congress and the Executive who do his bidding regardless of what they are asked to do.  They won't even tell him the truth, because Jack Nicholson was right about him, He Can't Handle The Truth.  They're the ones in the bars in Florida and Texas drinking up a storm without masks because C19 only happens to people who are not part of their lives and are therefore expendable.  They like Trump because he lets them do whatever they want, like delinquent children.  Ironically, Trump is their match, and wittingly or otherwise they are using him to burn down the house that they along with the rest of us live in and are keeping the firemen from putting out the blaze.

We'll all be lucky to get out of this alive.  That's not a joke.

DonaldD

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #969 on: July 03, 2020, 08:21:19 AM »
Some health officials warn about an apocalyptic situation where the pandemic continues to accelerate through the US population, while at the same time cases are declining in other countries that took drastic, but in hindsight prescient and responsible measures.
I go back to Canada - the measures taken in Canada were not significantly different than those taken in the USA, but they were taken more seriously by the governments, and as a result by the population.  Each province basically had their own "Cuomo briefings", usually daily, as did the federal government.  It's not a coincidence that having recurrent, consistent communication by experts supported by government and civil society organizations led to greater acceptance in the general population.

There were no mixed messages. The measures were not politicized.  Nowhere else in the world have mask-wearing, isolation and respect for distancing become political statements the way they have in the USA, and that is completely on the politicians in the USA who fanned those flames. Why should you be concerned with keeping people safe if you are constantly being told by the leader of the country not to be concerned?  Why shouldn't you feel outraged with local restrictions when the leader of your country tells you to rise up and resist those restrictions and directives?  Why shouldn't you feel free to go out and party once the president encourages you to do so, and leads by example by scheduling his own huge, indoor rally? (yes, in contravention of his own health agency's direction, further making a mockery of any kind of responsible communication)

TheDeamon

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #970 on: July 03, 2020, 10:10:15 AM »
The USA is now seeing per capita new case numbers roughly equivalent to the per capita peak numbers experienced in Italy, and those numbers are only likely to go up in the near future, at least until the new restrictions start having an effect.  New case numbers went from less than 40,000 per day (a record at the time) to 57,000 per day in 7 days - that's almost a 50% increase in a single week. Why lie about something that is so provable, and to which everybody is paying attention?  Does he literally think the number will magically drop tomorrow?

Is this to distract from the stories about Russian bounties?  Maybe the strategy is to create so much chaos, so much stupid, that people cannot focus on any particular stupid...

I did find the "Covid19 parties" with large betting pools over who gets it first interesting. Given the age group involved, it wouldn't be a hard sell to plaster those stories in tinfoil.

DonaldD

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #971 on: July 03, 2020, 10:34:19 AM »
"tin foil" suggesting paranoid conspiracy theory?  Meaning that kids are having parties and putting bets on who can come back with the first confirmed positive test is probably a made up story?  Or do you mean that Trump didn't actually state that the USA is getting the infection rates under control in the same way as are China and Europe, and stories about how he said that are made up stories?

TheDeamon

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #972 on: July 03, 2020, 11:32:18 AM »
"tin foil" suggesting paranoid conspiracy theory?  Meaning that kids are having parties and putting bets on who can come back with the first confirmed positive test is probably a made up story?  Or do you mean that Trump didn't actually state that the USA is getting the infection rates under control in the same way as are China and Europe, and stories about how he said that are made up stories?

I tend to ignore Trump to the maximum extent possible.

As to the "tin foil" being conspiracy theory, yes. But not in the direction you went with it. Those party attendees are primarily university students, in the 18 to 25 demographic in particular. The is a very prime Democratic demographic, and left-wing groups have no shortage of activists and other agents working in those age groups.

It wouldn't be much of a stretch to think that certain leftists groups are pumping some "dark money" into those college scenes to make those parties very appealing financially to the students involved. And that age group is low enough risk anyway.

The real target would be to help spike the numbers for covid19, force the country into a second deep lockdown, and try to crash the economy in the hopes it leads to Trumps defeat. =P

That those College students might go visit mom and dad and other family at home during the 4th, who being older may be voting Republican, is just icing on the cake should those party attendees bring it home to mom and dad and infect them, and maybe grandma and grandpa while they're at it.

NobleHunter

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #973 on: July 03, 2020, 11:54:38 AM »
Do you have any evidence those parties are happening? Or is there just a lot of credulous and breathless reporting about it?


NobleHunter

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #975 on: July 03, 2020, 12:21:58 PM »
I notice a distinct lack of quotes from anyone who's actually attended those parties or from anyone who has direct knowledge of those parties. All three articles are repeating the same claims from the same officials. If these were really happening, I'd expect more corroboration.

Kasandra

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #976 on: July 03, 2020, 02:07:25 PM »
Not to mention the connection to democrats. Alabama is after a liberal bastion.

TheDrake

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #977 on: July 03, 2020, 03:17:53 PM »
I notice a distinct lack of quotes from anyone who's actually attended those parties or from anyone who has direct knowledge of those parties. All three articles are repeating the same claims from the same officials. If these were really happening, I'd expect more corroboration.

So you'd expect that college students trying to get covid would jump at the chance to be ridiculed globally? Why would you think any of them would go on the record?

NobleHunter

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #978 on: July 03, 2020, 03:35:00 PM »
What about the doctors that supposedly confirmed the existence of the parties? Or an off-the-record source?

 It sounds like another made up story about the Youth being terrible.

TheDeamon

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #979 on: July 03, 2020, 03:40:25 PM »
What about the doctors that supposedly confirmed the existence of the parties? Or an off-the-record source?

 It sounds like another made up story about the Youth being terrible.

Well, I'm not going to fight you on calling out ABC, NBC, and CNN for not bothering to fact check stories they run.

TheDrake

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #980 on: July 03, 2020, 03:50:46 PM »
What about the doctors that supposedly confirmed the existence of the parties? Or an off-the-record source?

 It sounds like another made up story about the Youth being terrible.

You have a reason to disbelieve the school administrators and city officials quoted, or the journalists?

Regardless of whether there really was a betting pool about contracting the virus, I think you'd agree that there are large parties happening with no precautions? And that alone makes the Youth, along with many other demographics, terrible indeed.

DonaldD

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #981 on: July 03, 2020, 05:10:53 PM »
I go back to Canada - the measures taken in Canada were not significantly different than those taken in the USA, but they were taken more seriously by the governments, and as a result by the population.  Each province basically had their own "Cuomo briefings", usually daily, as did the federal government.  It's not a coincidence that having recurrent, consistent communication by experts supported by government and civil society organizations led to greater acceptance in the general population.

There were no mixed messages. The measures were not politicized.
Further to what I wrote earlier today about the differences between Canada's results and what is being experienced in the USA: How Canada crushed the curve while the USA struggles

NobleHunter

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #982 on: July 03, 2020, 09:15:03 PM »
You have a reason to disbelieve the school administrators and city officials quoted, or the journalists?

Regardless of whether there really was a betting pool about contracting the virus, I think you'd agree that there are large parties happening with no precautions? And that alone makes the Youth, along with many other demographics, terrible indeed.

Remember Rainbow Parties? It wouldn't be the first time officials and school administrators were more credulous than accurate.

Sure they they're having parties but I'm skeptical they're deliberately trying to get sick.

Aris Katsaris

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #983 on: July 04, 2020, 02:56:37 AM »
I don't find the story interesting at all? People will make betting pools over grotesque and morbid matters.

Perhaps it's true, perhaps it's false. And though it's certainly *bad* if people are given incentives by their peers to catch COVID-19, I don't think there's much we can do about the existence of betting pools. Even talking about them may be helping advertise them and thus be counterproductive.

Kasandra

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #984 on: July 04, 2020, 09:19:21 AM »
Theme parties are popular, especially when groups of teens-early-20's are bored and tired of feeling like they're being too obedient.  I can imagine a party with a nominal theme to come catch C19 with your friends as cover for nothing more than "<wink, wink> Let's get together and party like we wanna do."

Kasandra

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #985 on: July 04, 2020, 09:56:59 AM »
In any case, they don't know how to party, at least not like the guests at Washington's farewell party did.

Quote
The party had roughly 55 guests, which included troops, politicians, friends, and family — along with 16 more people who were working that night, including musicians, servers, and hosts. The details of the night are hazy but the receipt for the night was saved in the First Troop Cavalry archives.

By the end of the night, Washington's party drank: 54 bottle of Madeira wine, 60 bottle of Bordeaux wine, 8 bottles of old stock whiskey, 22 bottles of porter ale, 8 bottles of hard cider, 12 jugs of beer, and 7 large bowls of punch. The staff and musicians also drank 16 bottles of Bordeaux wine, 5 bottles of Madeira wine, and seven bowls of punch.

The bill also includes a tab for many broken glasses, which, adjusted for inflation, equals about $300 worth of reimbursements. The final bill came out to £89 and 4 schillings — or roughly $17,253 in 2018 dollars.

TheDrake

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #986 on: July 04, 2020, 09:13:31 PM »
We're talking about a demographic group that eats laundry detergent, so I just don't find it hard to believe.

DonaldD

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #987 on: July 06, 2020, 04:43:25 PM »
Hmmm... looks like the Trump campaign is soliciting donations to MAGA by protecting the Christ The Redeemer statue in Rio de Janeiro... not sure whether this falls under increasing foreign aid, religious freedoms or what, or maybe he thinks he's protecting a statue of a racist southerner (Brazil being, what, one of those southern states..?): Protect Christ the Redeemer statue!

TheDrake

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #988 on: July 06, 2020, 06:21:00 PM »
Give me a picture of a Jesus statue, pronto! - Campaign Manager
You got it boss! - Subversive Intern

DonaldD

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #989 on: July 07, 2020, 02:56:01 PM »

2015
Q: You are the lone Republican presidential candidate who has yet to weigh in on whether or not you think the confederate flag should be flying above the state house in South Carolina.  Do you think it needs to go?
Trump: I think it probably does, and I think they should put it in the museum.  Let it go - respect whatever it is that you have to respect because it was a point in time and put it in a museum. But I would take it down, yes.

2020
“Has @BubbaWallace apologized to all of those great NASCAR drivers & officials who came to his aid, stood by his side, & were willing to sacrifice everything for him, only to find out that the whole thing was just another HOAX? That & Flag decision has caused lowest ratings EVER!"

rightleft22

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #990 on: July 07, 2020, 03:37:26 PM »

2015
Q: You are the lone Republican presidential candidate who has yet to weigh in on whether or not you think the confederate flag should be flying above the state house in South Carolina.  Do you think it needs to go?
Trump: I think it probably does, and I think they should put it in the museum.  Let it go - respect whatever it is that you have to respect because it was a point in time and put it in a museum. But I would take it down, yes.

2020
“Has @BubbaWallace apologized to all of those great NASCAR drivers & officials who came to his aid, stood by his side, & were willing to sacrifice everything for him, only to find out that the whole thing was just another HOAX? That & Flag decision has caused lowest ratings EVER!"

Trump never means what he says but says what he means. Another statement to spin the narrative away from the poor leadership narrative. Of course this go to  is just another example of his poor leadership skills but it works to keep his followers inline and fired up. 

TheDeamon

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #991 on: July 07, 2020, 03:55:22 PM »

2015
Q: You are the lone Republican presidential candidate who has yet to weigh in on whether or not you think the confederate flag should be flying above the state house in South Carolina.  Do you think it needs to go?
Trump: I think it probably does, and I think they should put it in the museum.  Let it go - respect whatever it is that you have to respect because it was a point in time and put it in a museum. But I would take it down, yes.

2020
“Has @BubbaWallace apologized to all of those great NASCAR drivers & officials who came to his aid, stood by his side, & were willing to sacrifice everything for him, only to find out that the whole thing was just another HOAX? That & Flag decision has caused lowest ratings EVER!"

NASCAR isn't a state government?

DonaldD

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #992 on: July 07, 2020, 04:09:56 PM »
So you think it is consistent and reasonable for the president to chastise a private company for a decision to remove a flag, while years earlier urging a state government to remove the same symbol?

Also, do you think as President he should be preaching to state governments what they should be doing?

TheDeamon

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #993 on: July 07, 2020, 04:16:27 PM »
In 2015 he wasn't PotUS

Kasandra

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #994 on: July 07, 2020, 04:16:58 PM »
In 2015 he wasn't PotUS

He already has: LIBERATE!

DonaldD

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #995 on: July 07, 2020, 04:34:28 PM »
In 2015 he wasn't PotUS
No, he was running to become POTUS and this was essentially what he promised would be his position should he elected.  Or did you miss the whole "You are the lone Republican presidential candidate" part?

DonaldD

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #996 on: July 07, 2020, 08:22:16 PM »
Quote
Why does the Lamestream Fake News Media REFUSE to say that China Virus deaths are down 39%, and that we now have the lowest Fatality (Mortality) Rate in the World. They just can’t stand that we are doing so well for our Country!
Ignoring his automatic racism at this point, the USA simply doesn't have the lowest mortality rate in the world, no matter how you calculate it.

The USA has the second highest mortality rate per capita (second only to the UK) of the 20 countries hardest hit by the pandemic.  If calculated as deaths per infection, the USA is still worse than 29 countries having a population of more than 10 million. Have we simply stopped caring that the man is incapable of being truthful about, really, anything?

TheDrake

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #997 on: July 07, 2020, 08:28:51 PM »
Quote
Why does the Lamestream Fake News Media REFUSE to say that China Virus deaths are down 39%, and that we now have the lowest Fatality (Mortality) Rate in the World. They just can’t stand that we are doing so well for our Country!
Ignoring his automatic racism at this point, the USA simply doesn't have the lowest mortality rate in the world, no matter how you calculate it.

The USA has the second highest mortality rate per capita (second only to the UK) of the 20 countries hardest hit by the pandemic.  If calculated as deaths per infection, the USA is still worse than 29 countries having a population of more than 10 million. Have we simply stopped caring that the man is incapable of being truthful about, really, anything?


The Orange Goid Worshippers believe he is telling the truth, and every global news and health organization that says otherwise is lying. Alternatively, the OGW will claim that he was just joking, or that he meant to say something else.

DonaldD

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #998 on: July 07, 2020, 09:47:02 PM »
There's always a Tweet:
Quote
Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump
I wonder when we will be able to
see @BarackObama's college and law
school applications and transcripts.
Why the long wait?

Excerpt from Mary Trump's book, Too Much and Never Enough: How My Family Created the World’s Most Dangerous Man:
Quote
[Donald Trump] enlisted a smart kid with a reputation for being a good test taker, to take his SATs for him. Donald, who never lacked for funds, paid his buddy well.