Author Topic: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:  (Read 122595 times)

DonaldD

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #1300 on: September 04, 2020, 03:44:32 PM »
Why British Police Don't Have Gun

Of course, some British police do, and there are special units, and, well, there's Northern Ireland.  But the vast majority of police do not regularly carry firearms, and they British police by and large like it that way.

Just to say that it is not out of the realm of the possible to think that firearms are necessarily beneficial.  It's been said so many times, but even just the presence of a firearm can escalate situations.  And police are far less likely to be shot themselves if the people they are interacting with do not themselves perceive the police to be mortal threats.

TheDrake

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #1301 on: September 04, 2020, 03:51:10 PM »
Police will never be obsolete, evolution argues against it.

The best you can do further limit the number of things they're "on the front line" for but even that is challenging.

The idea of an unarmed person responding to domestic disputes sounds great in theory.

Until you find out many domestic disputes involved one partner or the other weilding a knife, improvised club, or just simply being a brawler. That isn't even getting into the nightmare which is domestic dispute involving a gun. In none of those scenarios is that unarmed responder capable of doing well, unless they're at a level where they could do well in a MMA tournament

Just because you don't agree with the argument doesn't give the right to characterize it as "disbanding the police" and abandoning the streets to anarchy.

Wayward Son

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #1302 on: September 05, 2020, 02:16:23 AM »
Or maybe you can believe the president when he tells you what he means...

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The president told senior advisers that he didn’t understand why the U.S. government placed such value on finding soldiers missing in action because they had performed poorly and gotten caught and deserved what they got, according to a person familiar with the discussion

The president views the military, and military personnel, in exactly the way he sees most everything else: will it help him "win", and how can it help him "win"?

Oh more "anonymous sources report" stories.  ::)

It would be somewhat consistent with the other view, so I could believe it to a fair degree. I'd hope that DoD managed to explain there is more nuance to it than that when it comes to many POW/MIA's but based on his comments about McCain he may still continue to have blinders on in regards to some of that.

"Why risk the expenditure of XXX Million dollars worth of assets to 'rescue' X million dollars worth of defunct assets? Just declare bankruptcy and move on."

Just for the record, Jennifer Griffin, Fox News security correspondent, confirmed some of the allegations with her own sources.

Trump naturally has called for her to be fired, because that's what he does for people that report the truth about him.  >:(

Wayward Son

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #1303 on: September 05, 2020, 02:21:14 AM »
I wonder if this means that "Veterans for Donald Trump" is considering changing their name to "Suckers and Losers for Donald Trump?"  ;D

TheDeamon

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #1304 on: September 05, 2020, 10:20:18 AM »
Just for the record, Jennifer Griffin, Fox News security correspondent, confirmed some of the allegations with her own sources.

Trump naturally has called for her to be fired, because that's what he does for people that report the truth about him.  >:(

While at the same time, other claims made by The Atlantic in the article making the accusations against Trump are also being debunked.

Trump really couldn't attend the one service because of rain the low cloud cover resulted in Marine One being "unable to support the mission due to WX(weather)" and there was no way he was getting there in a timely manner by short-notice motorcade. (Presumably their concern with Marine One had to do with concerns about other things operating in their airspace with cloud-obstructed visibility in foreign airspace than their ability to operate the Chopper itself, but it was a valid claim by Trump.

TheDrake

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #1305 on: September 05, 2020, 12:37:44 PM »
Just for the record, Jennifer Griffin, Fox News security correspondent, confirmed some of the allegations with her own sources.

Trump naturally has called for her to be fired, because that's what he does for people that report the truth about him.  >:(

While at the same time, other claims made by The Atlantic in the article making the accusations against Trump are also being debunked.

Trump really couldn't attend the one service because of rain the low cloud cover resulted in Marine One being "unable to support the mission due to WX(weather)" and there was no way he was getting there in a timely manner by short-notice motorcade. (Presumably their concern with Marine One had to do with concerns about other things operating in their airspace with cloud-obstructed visibility in foreign airspace than their ability to operate the Chopper itself, but it was a valid claim by Trump.

Isn't it odd how many other world leaders managed to show up?

TheDeamon

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #1306 on: September 05, 2020, 01:11:55 PM »
Just for the record, Jennifer Griffin, Fox News security correspondent, confirmed some of the allegations with her own sources.

Trump naturally has called for her to be fired, because that's what he does for people that report the truth about him.  >:(

While at the same time, other claims made by The Atlantic in the article making the accusations against Trump are also being debunked.

Trump really couldn't attend the one service because of rain the low cloud cover resulted in Marine One being "unable to support the mission due to WX(weather)" and there was no way he was getting there in a timely manner by short-notice motorcade. (Presumably their concern with Marine One had to do with concerns about other things operating in their airspace with cloud-obstructed visibility in foreign airspace than their ability to operate the Chopper itself, but it was a valid claim by Trump.

Isn't it odd how many other world leaders managed to show up?

It's what the FOIA request turned up. Pilot advised against the trip due to what the weather reports/forecast was.

Unless you're saying Trump ordered the pilot to send official correspondence that would generate a paper trail to support his claim should someone make a FOIA request years later?

wmLambert

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #1307 on: September 05, 2020, 01:18:28 PM »
...sn't it odd how many other world leaders managed to show up?

Not really. None of them flew in on a high-security aircraft, did they? There were myriads of possible meetings and little time to spend. Has anyone commented on what was accomplished?

TheDeamon

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #1308 on: September 05, 2020, 01:49:35 PM »
...sn't it odd how many other world leaders managed to show up?

Not really. None of them flew in on a high-security aircraft, did they? There were myriads of possible meetings and little time to spend. Has anyone commented on what was accomplished?

One of which was on his home soil, and the other was the Canadian PM? Because Canada is highly concerned about potential nuclear strikes.

But hey, an American 4 star General made it there by motorcade, so Trump should have been able to as well, right?

Except the security requirements for a General are far more permissive than PotUS, and they're on foreign soil, so they'd need the host nation to agree to any relevant traffic disruption a presidential motorcade would cause. Reports are the police in Paris said no, so that killed it.

Which isn't to mention the Secret Service loves having extraction options for PotUS, if visability limits helicopter operations, that limits their options for evacuation as well...

DonaldD

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #1309 on: September 05, 2020, 03:12:07 PM »
While at the same time, other claims made by The Atlantic in the article making the accusations against Trump are also being debunked.

Trump really couldn't attend the one service because of rain the low cloud cover resulted in Marine One being "unable to support the mission due to WX(weather)" and there was no way he was getting there in a timely manner by short-notice motorcade. (Presumably their concern with Marine One had to do with concerns about other things operating in their airspace with cloud-obstructed visibility in foreign airspace than their ability to operate the Chopper itself, but it was a valid claim by Trump.
I don't think the word "debunk" means what you think it does.

That the Marines did not want to fly Trump in that weather does not actually mean that Trump did not also say he didn't want to get his hair wet or that he did not believe it important to honour American war dead - the three facts are not in any way contradictory.  If the reporting was that "the only reason Trump did not attend the service was because of his hair" that would be another story.

DJQuag

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #1310 on: September 05, 2020, 03:54:49 PM »
You know what?

This thing now where people are excusing Rittenhouser. Conaider it for me the last straw. Some piece of *censored* militia man who came down not to make a statement but hoping he'd find a reason to use his gun.

Ya'll ever heard about the cool zone? It's when stuff gets so bad for a big enough proportion of the population they actually sit back and consider what it's worth to go out and tell the world to go screw themselves no matter what they meet in the ruling class's bullets. Because the alternative is worse.

All you conservative people with your 401ks and your cushy recession proof jobs, you can continue to look down on us. So did the French before their revolution.

DJQuag

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #1311 on: September 05, 2020, 04:01:38 PM »
I know what's coming. We can all see it. I've never been a fan for the French Revolution but I'm starting to have my leg tap to it.  All of you. All of you rich *censored* don't give a *censored* about anything outside yourselves and/or your own interests. You'd happily see a whole family slaughtered and make excuses if they were the wrong color or more importantly the wrong class.

I'll tell you right now. If you won't defend us when your soldiers come to enforce your mesed up law don't think I'll look away when your family is brought out to be judged.

noel c.

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #1312 on: September 05, 2020, 05:51:39 PM »
The rant continues, and where is Grant?

Nothing being said in this thread is going to prevent the re-election of Donald J. Trump in two months. This will happen despite broad spectrum efforts employing every dirty political trick an out-of-control House can conceive, our ensconced bureaucratic leviathan can dictate through regulatory fiat, and executive department holdovers can sabotage from within the administration itself. Even with the complicity of federal court judges, aided occasionally by Bush appointees like John Roberts, and Rosemary M. Collyer, the left has failed to halt a steady stream of Trump victories in both foreign, and domestic policies.

In a second term Trump will employ the Administrative Procedure Act, as recently interpreted by the SCOTUS, with devastating results for any future attempts at reversing his executive orders via systematic reconstitution of the federal judiciary. The left has screwed itself... ironically through the instrumentality of one of their own. Trump is a mud-monster born of New York politics, and ethics. Karma sucks.

Everyone, including the Donald, was surprised by the results of 2016. Nobody can claim that they did not see an approach of the 2020 reckoning.

Grant, I will ask you again; how can this phenomenon be explained?

TheDeamon

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #1313 on: September 05, 2020, 05:58:33 PM »
You know what?

This thing now where people are excusing Rittenhouser. Conaider it for me the last straw. Some piece of *censored* militia man who came down not to make a statement but hoping he'd find a reason to use his gun.

Ya'll ever heard about the cool zone? It's when stuff gets so bad for a big enough proportion of the population they actually sit back and consider what it's worth to go out and tell the world to go screw themselves no matter what they meet in the ruling class's bullets. Because the alternative is worse.

All you conservative people with your 401ks and your cushy recession proof jobs, you can continue to look down on us. So did the French before their revolution.

I don't think that's going to work the way you think it will. And most of those militia guys turning up with guns? They're not 1%ers. They're by and large probably not even in the top 20% for income. Even the Democrats own numbers reflect this: The Main of the Democratic base are the people making over $100K/year, and/or college educated.

It's almost sad. You think "the masses" are on your side. They're not, at least, not anywhere that matters, and not the extent you think they are. The left-wing insanity has many, if not most of the cities. But those cities are far more vulnerable now than they've ever been in history.

If the Bourgeoisie Democrats want to start a revolution to overthrown themselves... Well, I guess bring it? The history books will likely be confused about how that ever came to pass, but I guess it is what it is...

DonaldD

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #1314 on: September 05, 2020, 06:18:54 PM »
Technically, he said it would be signed within two weeks:

Quote
Bloomberg News Wire - July 19, 2020:

We’re signing a health-care plan within two weeks, a full and complete health care-plan,” Trump said. “We’re going to sign an immigration plan, a health-care plan, and various other plans.”

Trump on Thursday suggested that the administration would soon be “going into the world of health-care - very complete health-care, and we have a lot of very exciting things to discuss.”

Two weeks is up... today (well,, yesterday, but that was a Sunday...)
Forget about 2 weeks - it's going on two months, and still no plan, never mind some kind of signature...

TheDeamon

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #1315 on: September 05, 2020, 06:44:56 PM »
I actually needed to re-address this after noticing something, but need to shift some stuff around...

Ya'll ever heard about the cool zone? It's when stuff gets so bad for a big enough proportion of the population they actually sit back and consider what it's worth to go out and tell the world to go screw themselves no matter what they meet in the ruling class's bullets. Because the alternative is worse.

This is also Boogaloo thinking on Police (State) Activity within the United States. You'd find a lot of common ground with them... Except for:

Quote
This thing now where people are excusing Rittenhouser. Conaider it for me the last straw. Some piece of *censored* militia man who came down not to make a statement but hoping he'd find a reason to use his gun.

They don't have problems with militia(many of them are in militias), and some of the boog-bois I know are just fine with what Kyle did, based on current evidence. They think he was being an idiot, but that's the extent of it.

and...
Quote
All you conservative people with your 401ks and your cushy recession proof jobs, you can continue to look down on us. So did the French before their revolution.

They're huge on private property, and the right to defend it, with lethal force if warranted(and being confronted with an angry mob qualifies).

TheDrake

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #1316 on: September 05, 2020, 09:07:30 PM »
Just for the record, Jennifer Griffin, Fox News security correspondent, confirmed some of the allegations with her own sources.

Trump naturally has called for her to be fired, because that's what he does for people that report the truth about him.  >:(

While at the same time, other claims made by The Atlantic in the article making the accusations against Trump are also being debunked.

Trump really couldn't attend the one service because of rain the low cloud cover resulted in Marine One being "unable to support the mission due to WX(weather)" and there was no way he was getting there in a timely manner by short-notice motorcade. (Presumably their concern with Marine One had to do with concerns about other things operating in their airspace with cloud-obstructed visibility in foreign airspace than their ability to operate the Chopper itself, but it was a valid claim by Trump.

Isn't it odd how many other world leaders managed to show up?

It's what the FOIA request turned up. Pilot advised against the trip due to what the weather reports/forecast was.

Unless you're saying Trump ordered the pilot to send official correspondence that would generate a paper trail to support his claim should someone make a FOIA request years later?

I'm sure the pilot did say that. I don't know what arrangements the other leaders made, but I'm assuming Macron would have given him a ride.

DonaldD

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #1317 on: September 05, 2020, 10:50:45 PM »
While at the same time, other claims made by The Atlantic in the article making the accusations against Trump are also being debunked.

Trump really couldn't attend the one service because of rain the low cloud cover resulted in Marine One being "unable to support the mission due to WX(weather)" and there was no way he was getting there in a timely manner by short-notice motorcade. (Presumably their concern with Marine One had to do with concerns about other things operating in their airspace with cloud-obstructed visibility in foreign airspace than their ability to operate the Chopper itself, but it was a valid claim by Trump.
I don't think the word "debunk" means what you think it does.

That the Marines did not want to fly Trump in that weather does not actually mean that Trump did not also say he didn't want to get his hair wet or that he did not believe it important to honour American war dead - the three facts are not in any way contradictory.  If the reporting was that "the only reason Trump did not attend the service was because of his hair" that would be another story.
As of this evening, we now have the following media outlets corroborating parts of The Atlantic's story:  Fox News, the New York Times, the Washington Post, CNN and the Associated Press.  Trump may be able to have Jennifer Griffin fired, but it seems unlikely he'll have much success with the other 5 major sources.

I expect he'll have to sue all 5, and allow his own self to be deposed in order to get justice for himself in this case.

DJQuag

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #1318 on: September 06, 2020, 04:27:08 PM »
You know what?

This thing now where people are excusing Rittenhouser. Conaider it for me the last straw. Some piece of *censored* militia man who came down not to make a statement but hoping he'd find a reason to use his gun.

Ya'll ever heard about the cool zone? It's when stuff gets so bad for a big enough proportion of the population they actually sit back and consider what it's worth to go out and tell the world to go screw themselves no matter what they meet in the ruling class's bullets. Because the alternative is worse.

All you conservative people with your 401ks and your cushy recession proof jobs, you can continue to look down on us. So did the French before their revolution.

I don't think that's going to work the way you think it will. And most of those militia guys turning up with guns? They're not 1%ers. They're by and large probably not even in the top 20% for income. Even the Democrats own numbers reflect this: The Main of the Democratic base are the people making over $100K/year, and/or college educated.

It's almost sad. You think "the masses" are on your side. They're not, at least, not anywhere that matters, and not the extent you think they are. The left-wing insanity has many, if not most of the cities. But those cities are far more vulnerable now than they've ever been in history.

If the Bourgeoisie Democrats want to start a revolution to overthrown themselves... Well, I guess bring it? The history books will likely be confused about how that ever came to pass, but I guess it is what it is...

Perhaps.

Who knows?

What I'm saying here is that even if you all want to look down on those 20 somethings they're not all actually liberal seconds sons or whatever.

You didn't expect the riot's either, and in your speed to condemn them as bastions of terrorism or Obamaism or whatever you're grabbing on to here, the forces of the whip failed. I'll admit this of Trump - him or his advisors got the message in Portland. You'd better go in hot and hard because if you don't get control of it the bastions of class control will be given a moral advantage in punishing the real electorate.

The poor section  doesn't vote and they never have. And, honored conservatives, please. Do you actually think in any universe a majority of these people who have seen the trickle down economics or austerity or whatever your latest excuse is, payments given in full in *corporate* welfare whilst normal people struggle to get along, in what universe would a fully informed electorate actually take your side?

The only thing you have. The only thing you ever did have.  Was to rig the information and the polls. The same way Republicans continue in every election to reduce voting locations for Dems. Or poor people. Or minorities. Whoever may vote for those as hole libs. And the BS about mail in voting is the latest. Trump and McEnany both voted via mail, as did many others, and if they're getting scared now they should probably be introduced to the idea of projection. Given what R''s have done in regards to civil rights voting actions I'm really not surprised they'd got so held up when someone suggests we make it easier for the common person to vote.

TheDeamon

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #1319 on: September 06, 2020, 08:14:58 PM »
You didn't expect the riot's either, and in your speed to condemn them as bastions of terrorism or Obamaism or whatever you're grabbing on to here, the forces of the whip failed. I'll admit this of Trump - him or his advisors got the message in Portland. You'd better go in hot and hard because if you don't get control of it the bastions of class control will be given a moral advantage in punishing the real electorate.

Actually, I kind of did. I've had that long standing refrain of "When the left doesn't get what it wants, it riots." Which does have a corollary to work with: "When leftist activists think rioting will further their agenda, they'll do so."

Much like the Bundy family demonstrates the right-wing version, only without the rioting. (But sometimes with property destruction--Oregon)

Myself and others have been watching the left-wing (and white nationalist) push towards race war with class warfare elements present. That pretty much looks exactly like what the BLM protests are doing.

Quote
The poor section  doesn't vote and they never have. And, honored conservatives, please. Do you actually think in any universe a majority of these people who have seen the trickle down economics or austerity or whatever your latest excuse is, payments given in full in *corporate* welfare whilst normal people struggle to get along, in what universe would a fully informed electorate actually take your side?

The poor do vote in rural areas, and they vote Republican out there. The GOP does seem to love its Coroporate Welfare, but so does the DNC, so it's a distinction without a difference. Conservatives hate the corporate welfare.

The informed electorate in rural and suburban American is going to support private property, because they have private property to protect. The Conservatives and ostensibly the GOP stands for Private Property. While the Democratic Party will stand back and wring their hands while private property is being destroyed and wax eloquent about how rioting is a form of expression, and it needs to be "understood" and nothing else of note should be done to stop it.

Quote
The only thing you have. The only thing you ever did have.  Was to rig the information and the polls. The same way Republicans continue in every election to reduce voting locations for Dems. Or poor people. Or minorities. Whoever may vote for those as hole libs. And the BS about mail in voting is the latest. Trump and McEnany both voted via mail, as did many others, and if they're getting scared now they should probably be introduced to the idea of projection. Given what R''s have done in regards to civil rights voting actions I'm really not surprised they'd got so held up when someone suggests we make it easier for the common person to vote.

Absentee voting, where a ballot has to be requested, is not the same thing as a wholesale, abrupt, and unplanned transition to 100% mail in voting by sending out ballots to every registered voter in the state, even the ones who have been dead for years, or moved out of state without de-registering. Isn't it a bit odd that the Democrats are the ones pushing for the open invitations for voter fraud?

If they wanted to mandate the removal of restrictions on absentee voting, I can get behind that. But that isn't what they did.

noel c.

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #1320 on: September 06, 2020, 08:35:21 PM »
“And the BS about mail in voting is the latest. Trump and McEnany both voted via mail, as did many others, and if they're getting scared now they should probably be introduced to the idea of projection.  Given what R''s have done in regards to civil rights voting actions I'm really not surprised they'd got so held up when someone suggests we make it easier for the common person to vote.”

Have you ever applied for an absentee mail-in ballot?

Such requests are tied to a name on an existing voter roll, associated to a specific address, and the deadline to mail it in expires prior to an election date. You may be too young to remember when the Al Gore attempted to exclude military ballots. :

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2015/11/02/politics/bush-gore-military-ballots/index.html

Given that there is a disproportionate minority representation in the U.S. military, how does that square with your proletarian babble?

When ballots are mailed directly to a home address, using dated voter roles, this is what you get. :

https://www.google.com/amp/s/ktla.com/news/local-news/norwalk-man-charged-with-voter-fraud-accused-of-casting-ballot-for-dead-mom-in-3-elections/amp/

Does that clarify the issue for you?

If wide-spread voter fraud is your objective, then the Democratic proposal is a perfect solution. If a typical Democratic voter is too lazy to request a mail-in ballot, which statistics tend to support, they are probably too uninformed to cast a thoughtful vote, which should satisfy your complaint unless uninformed voting is also a Democratic objective. I feel for the Democratic establishment, but a better course would seem to be cultivation of a responsible platform capable of attracting responsible supporters.

wmLambert

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #1321 on: September 07, 2020, 12:56:28 PM »
...All of you. All of you rich *censored* don't give a *censored* about anything outside yourselves and/or your own interests. You'd happily see a whole family slaughtered and make excuses if they were the wrong color or more importantly the wrong class.

Pure projection. Why do perpetrators of evil always rationalize it by attacking their victims? You don't see "rich *censored* don't give a *censored* about anything outside yourselves and/or your own interests." You see a strawman that you concoct out of whole cloth. The Free Enterprise system always works for the betterment of all. The upper income levels do better when all the levels improve. If a single less wealthy level takes it on the chin, then the upper strata does as well. It is not just "trickle down" as the Keynesians like to shout, even though wealth does trickle down as well as up. Even blue-collar union tradesmen benefit when lower levels' wealth increase their wages, because their union contracts guarantees them a multiple of what others earn. This is also the main reason unions have fought for minimum wage increases - because it affects themselves even more.

To set the record straight, The highest quintile lives close to the edge just like other quintiles do, because so much of what they make is invested back into their companies that benefit their employees. No one can denigrate this "trickle-down."

oldbrian

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #1322 on: September 08, 2020, 11:20:16 AM »
Can anyone with actual inside knowledge of police answer my question, since TheDeamon is apparently ignoring me:

Do 'regular' police actually hate Internal Affairs as much as is portrayed in popular fiction?

DonaldD

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #1323 on: September 08, 2020, 04:29:31 PM »
Not that it will change anybody's mind about anything at this point, but here are some of/all of the best bits from the Michael Cohen memoir.

TheDeamon

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #1324 on: September 08, 2020, 04:34:31 PM »
Can anyone with actual inside knowledge of police answer my question, since TheDeamon is apparently ignoring me:

Do 'regular' police actually hate Internal Affairs as much as is portrayed in popular fiction?

The agency I have contacts with isn't large enough to have a IA organization, so I wouldn't know in any case. Closest we get is the referrals to other agencies for them to investigate to avoid the whole internal conflicts of interest thing.

Wayward Son

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #1325 on: September 08, 2020, 05:27:29 PM »
Anyone a fan of off-shore drilling?

Quote
In a few moments I will sign a presidential order extending the moratorium on offshore drilling on Florida’s Gulf Coast and expanding it to Florida’s Atlantic Coast as well as the coast of Georgia and South Carolina.

Glad to see that Donald Trump is finally coming around.  I guess he'll wait until after he is re-elected before extending it to the Gulf of Mexico and Alaska. :)

rightleft22

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #1326 on: September 08, 2020, 05:38:17 PM »
The man/boy is on the wrong side of history

DonaldD

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #1327 on: September 08, 2020, 09:02:30 PM »
Quote

(Trump's response to the announcement by German Chancellor Angela Merkel that the poison Russian president Putin ordered used on Russian opposition leader Navalny was actually Novichok, a Russian nerve agent recently used to poison Sergei and Yulia Skripal in Salisbury, England, and which accidentally killed two UK nationals in a nearby town.)
Another week has gone by, and Trump still hasn't called out his handler, Vladimir Putin, for the attack on the leading opposition figure in Russia.  In the meantime, another chemical attack was perpetrated on volunteers in Navalny's Novosibirsk office, leading to at least 3 hospitalizations.

And of course, it's been much longer that Trump has remained silent on the topic of Putin placing bounties on US service members' heads. One has to really wonder what is so important about not upsetting Putin that Trump would continue to alienate US military service members.

TheDeamon

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #1328 on: September 08, 2020, 10:44:43 PM »
And of course, it's been much longer that Trump has remained silent on the topic of Putin placing bounties on US service members' heads. One has to really wonder what is so important about not upsetting Putin that Trump would continue to alienate US military service members.

China, probably. Russia has reportedly been rather uncooperative with China of late, and has started making nice with India, among some other things.

DonaldD

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #1329 on: September 08, 2020, 11:02:42 PM »
China, probably. Russia has reportedly been rather uncooperative with China of late, and has started making nice with India, among some other things.
"Probably".  Because there must be a valid reason for his complete submission to Russian foreign policy, right?   That his complete abdication of US security is really a strategic and moreover a silent  and non-reciprocal realignment with Russia in order to counterweight Chinese... what - economic imperialism?  Do you really think that stupid is better than the more obvious stupid?

noel c.

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #1330 on: September 09, 2020, 12:08:25 AM »
“Because there must be a valid reason for his complete submission to Russian foreign policy, right?   That his complete abdication of US security is really a strategic and moreover a silent  and non-reciprocal realignment with Russia in order to counterweight Chinese... what - economic imperialism?  Do you really think that stupid is better than the more obvious stupid?“

https://fas.org/sgp/crs/row/IF10779.pdf

This is the type of bombast that makes the left look deranged. Would you like to debate the relative economic impacts of Barry sanctions versus Trump economic sanctions against Russia?

If you are looking for genuine servile stupidity, in the guise of a Russian “reset”, check out the sale of 11.5% of U.S. uranium resources transferred by the Barry cabal to JSC Atomredmetzoloto, which remained at 11% a year following Putin’s annexation of the Crimea, and a year prior to Trump’s tenure. Their stake in the U.S. nuclear mining industry fell to 5.9% under Trump as of September 2017. “Complete submission to Russian foreign policy“ to be sure.


« Last Edit: September 09, 2020, 12:11:07 AM by noel c. »

TheDeamon

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #1331 on: September 09, 2020, 02:33:14 AM »
"Probably".  Because there must be a valid reason for his complete submission to Russian foreign policy, right?   That his complete abdication of US security is really a strategic and moreover a silent  and non-reciprocal realignment with Russia in order to counterweight Chinese... what - economic imperialism?  Do you really think that stupid is better than the more obvious stupid?

Russia has no fallback once Putin is gone, they're also on a slow and steady backslide into obscurity. China is a threat to them as well. China wants Vladivostok back, among other things. Goading Russia into doing things everyone (except China) will regret benefits only China alone.

DonaldD

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #1332 on: September 09, 2020, 05:48:02 AM »
Sure, I get it. Trump has this completely secret diplomatic effort going on that is somehow dependent on Trump not just saying nothing bad about Vladimir Putin, that does not involve any diplomats, involves no consistent policies, but also requires that his own team be dissuaded from bringing up anything negative about Putin, to the point where security briefings are regularly stripped of references to Russian threats.

Maybe what you describe might be a good strategy, or even just a strategy, but attributing it to this administration is a complete work of wishful thinking, and absent any evidence .

noel c.

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #1333 on: September 09, 2020, 08:56:22 AM »
How soon they forget. :

“Maybe what you describe might be a good strategy, or even just a strategy, but attributing it to this administration is a complete work of wishful thinking, and absent any evidence.”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/abcnews.go.com/amp/Politics/years-mitt-romney-finally-credit-warnings-russia/story%3fid=61330530

Donald, you might recall that brilliant geopolitical military strategist, Barry, claimed during a presidential candidate debate that the United State’s possession of SSBNs, “Boomers”, was an effective check on Russian blue-water naval aspirations. Apparently, we were supposed to launch ICBMs upon Russia if they did not behave. Fast forward another four years of Obama foreign policy, the Russian hypersonic re-entry missiles, and a nuclear powered cruise missile, was touted publicly by Putin in March of 2018 as a counter to U.S. naval dominance. How is that for a lack of strategic appraisal and foresight? (As Madeline Albright eventually agreed)

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/new-russian-nuclear-missile-putin-invincible-cruise-missile/

Under Trump we are rapidly responding to the challenge.:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.popularmechanics.com/military/weapons/amp32883396/super-duper-missile/

Does that constitute a sufficient level of the “evidence” that you were looking for? Power projection is, ultimately, a function of economic prosperity, or lack thereof. Given that the Russian navy is unable to equip/field a single aircraft carrier, without burning it up in port, I think Trump’s economic sanctions have been manifestly effective as a “good strategy”.


https://www.google.com/amp/s/news.yahoo.com/amphtml/russias-aircraft-carrier-smokey-mess-203000719.html

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.popularmechanics.com/military/navy-ships/amp30211682/admiral-kuznetsov-fire/

DonaldD

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #1334 on: September 10, 2020, 09:26:37 AM »
Trump defends 'playing down' COVID-19 after new book reveals president called virus 'deadly stuff' in Feb

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Feb. 7: "You just breathe the air and that's how it's passed. And so that's a very tricky one. That's a very delicate one. It's also more deadly than even your strenuous flus... This is deadly stuff." - Trump phone interview with Woodward.

Feb. 26: "The 15 (case count in the U.S.) within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero. ... This is a flu. This is like a flu." - During White House coronavirus task force briefing.

DonaldD

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #1335 on: September 10, 2020, 09:29:54 AM »
And of course, probably the most quintessential Trump quote ever:

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“The virus has nothing to do with me. It’s not my fault.”

noel c.

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #1336 on: September 10, 2020, 03:31:35 PM »
Donald,

February 1st, 2020, the day after Trump imposed a travel ban on people entering the United States after spending two or more weeks in China, Crazy Uncle Joe made this statement. :


 "We are in the midst of a crisis with the coronavirus. We need to lead the way with science — not Donald Trump's record of hysteria, xenophobia, and fear-mongering. He is the worst possible person to lead our country through a global health emergency."

Was it an application of “science” to berate Trump for, properly, identifying Wuhan, China, as the source and active dispersal agent of COVID -19? The CCP had restricted travel from Wuhan to the rest of China, on January 23rd, but not outbound flights to the rest of the world. Should in-the-know critics feel justified in interpreting this as “Trumps fault”?
« Last Edit: September 10, 2020, 03:37:41 PM by noel c. »

TheDrake

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #1337 on: September 10, 2020, 04:03:38 PM »
Donald,

February 1st, 2020, the day after Trump imposed a travel ban on people entering the United States after spending two or more weeks in China, Crazy Uncle Joe made this statement. :


 "We are in the midst of a crisis with the coronavirus. We need to lead the way with science — not Donald Trump's record of hysteria, xenophobia, and fear-mongering. He is the worst possible person to lead our country through a global health emergency."

Was it an application of “science” to berate Trump for, properly, identifying Wuhan, China, as the source and active dispersal agent of COVID -19? The CCP had restricted travel from Wuhan to the rest of China, on January 23rd, but not outbound flights to the rest of the world. Should in-the-know critics feel justified in interpreting this as “Trumps fault”?

I never really had a problem with Trump's travel ban, regardless of any derogatory nicknames you'd like to use for people who criticized the move. Of course, if it hadn't taken an additional 11 days to impose a similar ban on Europe, NY might have been better off.

After China, Trump banned travel from Iran for no apparent reason. It took until 29 May to block Brazil, which is wild considering how lax they were there. It seems like he was working down his hit list.

It is all moot, now that the US has dispersed far more all on our own. Maybe we should have had a travel ban from South Dakota.

NobleHunter

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #1338 on: September 10, 2020, 04:18:51 PM »
It's also worth pointing out that the way Trump banned travel to Europe caused a massive spike of travel as people scrambled to make it back to the US.

Fenring

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #1339 on: September 10, 2020, 04:23:17 PM »
I never really had a problem with Trump's travel ban, regardless of any derogatory nicknames you'd like to use for people who criticized the move.

I think noel's point is more to the effect that among the people calling Trump's reaction to the coronavirus a disastrous failure where he did wrong thing after wrong thing, his presidential opponent would have - in his own statement - not done what was probably the most relevant move in the initial outbreak to curtail new cases entering the country. Not only did he claim it was a mistake, but that it was racist, etc. So although it's counterfactual as evidence, on that particular topic it looks like Biden would have done worse than Trump, seems to be noel's point.

I guess this argument doesn't do much to address the various things people are claiming Trump did wrong, but rather it seems to posit a hypocrisy where their own guy likely wouldn't have done any better since his early 'advice' was to object to a necessary travel ban.

noel c.

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #1340 on: September 10, 2020, 04:27:17 PM »
Drake,

“I never really had a problem with Trump's travel ban... “

Could you take the next logical step, in the name of science, and support his decision to enforce a travel ban against China?

“After China, Trump banned travel from Iran for no apparent reason.”

Other than, perhaps, COVID-19 cases exploded in frequency in both Italy, and Iran, due to their frequent contact with Chinese nationals.

“Of course, if it hadn't taken an additional 11 days to impose a similar ban on Europe, NY might have been better off.”

Possibly, so you agree that Trump’s travel bans are scientifically justified?

“It took until 29 May to block Brazil, which is wild considering how lax they were there. It seems like he was working down his hit list.“

Perhaps, or you could check the data.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/article/brazil-coronavirus-cases.amp.html

“It is all moot, now that the US has dispersed far more all on our own. Maybe we should have had a travel ban from South Dakota.“

Sounds like you’re channeling uncle Joe.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2020, 04:29:39 PM by noel c. »

noel c.

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TheDrake

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #1342 on: September 10, 2020, 04:59:03 PM »
Italy banned travel from China the same day as the US did. Didn't seem too effective to me, so forgive me if I don't applaud Trump's wonderful move. Brazil was already on a trajectory at that time, and had more reported cases than China did at the corresponding time. Plus was being led by a guy who was downplaying the virus.

Iran on that date had fewer cases than Italy, but no Italian travel ban. I find it hard to believe that more Chinese were travelling to Iran than Europe, though it isn't easy to verify.

Trump's travel bans were inconsistent and did not correlate to the science. Meanwhile, at the same time he declared the ban, he was talking about how it was all going to blow over and cases would be zero soon.

DonaldD

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #1343 on: September 10, 2020, 05:24:36 PM »
I never really had a problem with Trump's travel ban, regardless of any derogatory nicknames you'd like to use for people who criticized the move.

I think noel's point is more to the effect that among the people calling Trump's reaction to the coronavirus a disastrous failure where he did wrong thing after wrong thing, his presidential opponent would have - in his own statement - not done what was probably the most relevant move in the initial outbreak to curtail new cases entering the country. Not only did he claim it was a mistake, but that it was racist, etc. So although it's counterfactual as evidence, on that particular topic it looks like Biden would have done worse than Trump, seems to be noel's point.

I guess this argument doesn't do much to address the various things people are claiming Trump did wrong, but rather it seems to posit a hypocrisy where their own guy likely wouldn't have done any better since his early 'advice' was to object to a necessary travel ban.
This is not actually true.  As opposed to what some people claim, Biden's statement was made on the same day as Trump announced the travel restriction, not the following day (not a ban, BTW) and nowhere in that statement does Biden mention the travel restrictions.  He does mention Trump's xenophobia, and one could assume that this was a reference to the travel restrictions announced, but it might just as easily have been referring to Trump's more general attacks on immigrants and the expectation that he would use the pandemic to once again attack refugees and immigrants.  Pretending that Biden's statement on that day characterized the announced travel restrictions as "a mistake" is clearly putting words into Biden's mouth (or ideas into his statements that are not evident, if you prefer.)

Biden even made an almost identical speech several days earlier, before there were any restrictions announced on travel from China, and clearly that almost identical statement was not a reaction to Trump's announcement.

As to whether the Chinese travel restrictions were effective is another topic altogether.  There is a tendency in certain quarters to believe that restricting travel from China had a huge effect on US cases.  I'll only note that the vast majority of USA cases were home grown, as a result of lax internal controls, so whether the seeds came from Europe as they primarily did, or whether they also substantially came from China, the bigger issue is that there were effectively no controls put in place in the USA to slow the spread of the virus once it had a toehold in the population - which it already had in January, before any travel restrictions were announced.  Not to mention that even had China exported every single reported COVID-19 case to the USA, that would still only make up slightly more than the highest single-day new-case count in the USA.

noel c.

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #1344 on: September 10, 2020, 05:29:59 PM »
“Italy banned travel from China the same day as the US did. Didn't seem too effective to me, so forgive me if I don't applaud Trump's wonderful move.”

Good ex post facto rationalization there Drake. So you think that it was purposeless? What would your reaction be today if Trump had not banned travel?

“Brazil was already on a trajectory at that time, and had more reported cases than China did at the corresponding time. Plus was being led by a guy who was downplaying the virus.”

You missed my point. Brazil had a history of effective of disease outbreak management, which is why I cited the article. Additionally, in case is eluded your notice; Brazilians are South Americans. Mesh that observation with the “racism” narrative.

“Iran on that date had fewer cases than Italy, but no Italian travel ban. I find it hard to believe that more Chinese were travelling to Iran than Europe, though it isn't easy to verify.“

https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/international-travel/International-Travel-Country-Information-Pages/Iran.html

“Trump's travel bans were inconsistent and did not correlate to the science. Meanwhile, at the same time he declared the ban, he was talking about how it was all going to blow over and cases would be zero soon.“

Per CDC report, January 30th, Trump was in good company :

“We understand that this may be concerning, but based on what we know now, we still believe the immediate risk to the American public is low.”

https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2020/p0130-coronavirus-spread.html

“The science”, by which I think you mean *data*, were in a nascent stage of development. It actually still is, however; what is fairly undisputed is the source of the problem, and the left failed utterly to respond “scientifically”.

noel c.

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #1345 on: September 10, 2020, 05:37:04 PM »
“As opposed to what some people claim, Biden's statement was made on the same day as Trump announced the travel restriction, not the following day (not a ban, BTW) and nowhere in that statement does Biden mention the travel restrictions.”

Donald, nobody had difficulty interpreting Biden’s February 1st Facebook diatribe, except you.

https://m.facebook.com/joebiden/posts/10156607398041104

Wayward Son

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #1346 on: September 10, 2020, 05:51:10 PM »
Let us not forget Trump's words on April 17:

Quote
Liberate Michigan!

This, after saying, privately, "You just breathe the air and that's how it's passed. ... It's also more deadly than even your strenuous flus... This is deadly stuff."

This, after almost 700,000 reported cases and 36,787 reported deaths.

This, after his own CDC recommended everyone wear masks to slow down the spread.

He knew it was deadly.  He knew it was worse than the flu.  He knew how many had died already.  He knew the science.

But none of that was the most important, was it?  >:(

DonaldD

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #1347 on: September 10, 2020, 06:40:53 PM »
“As opposed to what some people claim, Biden's statement was made on the same day as Trump announced the travel restriction, not the following day (not a ban, BTW) and nowhere in that statement does Biden mention the travel restrictions.”

Donald, nobody had difficulty interpreting Biden’s February 1st Facebook diatribe, except you.

https://m.facebook.com/joebiden/posts/10156607398041104

You seem to have missed the fact that Biden gave pretty much that very same speech on January 31, the same day as the announced travel restrictions, in Fort Madison, Iowa (go to 10:45 in the video):

Quote
10:45:
The American people need to have a president who they can trust what he says about it; that he is going to act rationally about it.  In moments like this, this is where the credibility of a president is most needed, as he explains what we should and should not do.  This is no time for Donald Trump’s record of hysteria and xenophobia - hysterical xenophobia - and fear mongering to lead the way instead of science.

He was reading this speech from printed pages, on the same day as Trump announced the travel restrictions.  A speech that had been clearly rehearsed.  Now I suppose it is possible that his speech writers whipped out the speech after learning about Trump's statements, printed them out and had Biden practice the speech prior to giving the speech no later than 4:30pm on the same day.  Pretending that this wasn't a prepared speech that had already been delivered the day before, that the Feb 1 speech was new and a response to Trump's announcement from the previous day, is just dishonest.

Furthermore, on January 27, so 4 days earlier, Biden wrote an op ed in USA Today in response to news about the coronavirus, chastising Trump in a very similar fashion - for his fear, his lack of leadership and his heartless xenophobia during the Ebola crisis.  What is interesting is how on January 27, Biden also mentioned how they rallied the world and beat Ebola without putting in place "reactionary travel bans"... but that observation was notably missing from his speeches on January 31 and February 1.  If anything, that is evidence that Biden was NOT calling out Trump for the contemporaneous announcement of Chinese travel restrictions.  Evidence, not proof.

noel c.

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #1348 on: September 10, 2020, 07:13:33 PM »
Donald,

“Pretending that this wasn't a prepared speech that had already been delivered the day before, that the Feb 1 speech was new and a response to Trump's announcement from the previous day, is just dishonest.”

I am amazed that you can call this post a “speech“, and maintain a straight face... much less characterize it as a “prepared” speech. The blurb looks much more at home as the referenced Facebook post. If this had to be “rehearsed”, per you claim, is Crazy Uncle Joe really qualified to express an informed opinion as he hibernates in his pajamas?

Regardless, he (per your assertion) copied himself (loosely), sans any recommendation regarding COVID spread, the day following Trump’s China travel restrictions, and perpetuated the unfounded racial prejudice attack. It is dishonest to represent otherwise, unless you are simply characterizing Joe’s general deficit of alacrity.

DonaldD

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #1349 on: September 10, 2020, 07:36:00 PM »
It was 30 minutes behind a lectern, in front of a room full of people, with call-outs to locals in the crowd, so yes, it's a speech.  I get that you only saw a one-line excerpt, but you shouldn't assume, when somebody talks to you about a speech, then that speech must have consisted of the only sentence you saw quoted.

As for "copied himself" - you do know how foolish you make yourself sound, right?  This might help you: Stump Speech

Quote
A political stump speech is a standard speech used by a politician running for office. Typically a candidate who schedules many appearances prepares a short standardized stump speech that is repeated verbatim to each audience, before opening to questions.

BTW, I think your bold font is stuck.