Author Topic: Heart-Bern?  (Read 1812 times)

Grant

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Heart-Bern?
« on: October 02, 2019, 11:47:41 AM »
Soooooo....
Reports of Beenie Sanders having “chest discomfort” (possibly a heart attack?), heart surgery, and cancelling events.

Questions:
1.Is this the end or beginning of the end of Bernie’s run?

2. If he stays on does this hurt his chances? Will Bernie Bros abandon ship?

3. Who does this help? Warren?

TheDrake

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Re: Heart-Bern?
« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2019, 12:22:17 PM »
GAAAH! The DEEP STATE just tried to MURDER Bernie Sanders!

Wayward Son

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Re: Heart-Bern?
« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2019, 12:45:49 PM »
1.  Don't know.

2.A. Hurt.

2.B. No, not until the ship sinks (i.e. Bernie quits or, God forbid, otherwise...)

3.  Definitely Warren.  FiveThirtyEight says that they are both appealing to the same "track."  She is the closest contender to Bernie in this race.  So most of his supporters would, most likely, turn to her.

scifibum

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Re: Heart-Bern?
« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2019, 01:07:38 PM »
Many of us who support Warren have been wanting Bernie to drop out and endorse her. I suppose this makes it more likely, although I would prefer it not be due to this kind of circumstance.

Wayward Son

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Re: Heart-Bern?
« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2019, 01:23:23 PM »
Fortunately, it may not come to that.

P.Z. Myers said he had a similar procedure done about 9 years ago, and he has been fine ever since.  In fact, he said it didn't even interfere with his work teaching (although he did not say how long he "took it easy" before going back to work).

It remains to be seen if Bernie's condition is as mild as Myers', but it does show that this may not be a big deal.

Grant

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Re: Heart-Bern?
« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2019, 02:14:53 PM »
I’d like to note that PZ Meyers is now 62 yrs old. 9 years ago he was 53.  Bernie’s 78. And he’s running for President, something Meyers was probably not subjected to.

I don’t mean to be grim, but I am.  Bernie Bros should consider the possibility of their guy crapping out on them during the race if he continues.  Under normal circumstances I’d say he was ok. But he’s running for apresident.  That’s not low stress.

DJQuag

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Re: Heart-Bern?
« Reply #6 on: October 04, 2019, 06:25:05 PM »
Jesus.

You know why we don't trust Warren? She used to be a Republican. That's reason enough.

Nevermind her ridiculous Native American claims and the never ending *censored*e that will be called upon her in a general election campaign.

You can pretty up your celebration all you want, Scifi, but the fact is Sanders has been on the forefront for progressive ideals for decades. And at the very same time, Warren was voting R.

DJQuag

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Re: Heart-Bern?
« Reply #7 on: October 04, 2019, 06:26:58 PM »
Biden and Trump are also excessively old. Warren is...what...in her sixties?

If he's healthy he's healthy. God knows half the country ignores Trump's dementia like symptoms as is.

Wayward Son

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Re: Heart-Bern?
« Reply #8 on: October 04, 2019, 06:34:46 PM »
Biden and Trump are also excessively old. Warren is...what...in her sixties?

If he's healthy he's healthy. God knows half the country ignores Trump's dementia like symptoms as is.

IIRC, Warren is 70.

But, hey, she's a real cougar!  Or, at least, a Houston Cougar. :)

DJQuag

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Re: Heart-Bern?
« Reply #9 on: October 04, 2019, 06:49:25 PM »
Biden and Trump are also excessively old. Warren is...what...in her sixties?

If he's healthy he's healthy. God knows half the country ignores Trump's dementia like symptoms as is.

IIRC, Warren is 70.

But, hey, she's a real cougar!  Or, at least, a Houston Cougar. :)

Why you linking Jacob Wohl stories to me? Guy's an idiot.

Crunch

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Re: Heart-Bern?
« Reply #10 on: October 06, 2019, 10:27:38 AM »
It’s been confirmed a heart attack.

1.Is this the end or beginning of the end of Bernie’s run? It very well could be. Too early to tell but he’s off campaign for at least a couple of weeks. A lot depends on his recovery and if he starts looking frail.

2. If he stays on does this hurt his chances? Will Bernie Bros abandon ship? It definitely hurts his chances. No question. Nearly 80 with a bum ticker? It’ll make any potential running mate a key consideration. Bernie Bros will not abandon him, they are too deeply vested in believing Bernie’s bull*censored*. They think he’s gonna give them trillions of dollars in free stuff, they’ll mostly stay bought.

3. Who does this help? Warren?
It helps Warren according to polls, she got a bump in the polls. It’s early to see how this plays out but the biggest beneficiary of it may be Trump.

Wayward Son

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Re: Heart-Bern?
« Reply #11 on: October 07, 2019, 11:51:14 AM »
Biden and Trump are also excessively old. Warren is...what...in her sixties?

If he's healthy he's healthy. God knows half the country ignores Trump's dementia like symptoms as is.

IIRC, Warren is 70.

But, hey, she's a real cougar!  Or, at least, a Houston Cougar. :)

Why you linking Jacob Wohl stories to me? Guy's an idiot.

Because, even though it isn't PC, sometimes it's fun to laugh at the idiots.  :D  It (hopefully) helps to remind people not to listen to them.

And I especially liked Warren's come-back.

scifibum

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Re: Heart-Bern?
« Reply #12 on: October 07, 2019, 01:44:04 PM »
Jesus.

You know why we don't trust Warren? She used to be a Republican. That's reason enough.

Nevermind her ridiculous Native American claims and the never ending *censored*e that will be called upon her in a general election campaign.

You can pretty up your celebration all you want, Scifi, but the fact is Sanders has been on the forefront for progressive ideals for decades. And at the very same time, Warren was voting R.

I wasn't celebrating. I'll gladly support Sanders if he's the nominee. I don't feel any enmity toward Sanders supporters, but I'm getting a different vibe from you right now.

DJQuag

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Re: Heart-Bern?
« Reply #13 on: October 08, 2019, 01:20:56 AM »
Jesus.

You know why we don't trust Warren? She used to be a Republican. That's reason enough.

Nevermind her ridiculous Native American claims and the never ending *censored*e that will be called upon her in a general election campaign.

You can pretty up your celebration all you want, Scifi, but the fact is Sanders has been on the forefront for progressive ideals for decades. And at the very same time, Warren was voting R.

I wasn't celebrating. I'll gladly support Sanders if he's the nominee. I don't feel any enmity toward Sanders supporters, but I'm getting a different vibe from you right now.

quote author=scifibum link=topic=800.msg32159#msg32159

"Many of us who support Warren have been wanting Bernie to drop out and endorse her."

Your words, my friend.

If you say you weren't celebrating, I'll take you at your word. No reason not to. My apologies. I obviously took the words the wrong way.

I will admit a certain curiosity as to why you'd tie your train to a woman who is looking like Clinton 2.0. A lifelong politician who was a Republican for a long time. Her faking the Native American heritage thing is a boondoggle that will not go away, at all, in the general. At least if Sanders went through the biggest thing against him would be Scandinavian style socialism. Big turn off for some, but at least it'd turn on some younger voters, the ones abandoned by the Boomer's choices.

Literally as a pretty big liberal and socialist the only reason I see to vote Warren over Sanders is she has a vagina. And that's not a good enough reason for me.

DJQuag

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Re: Heart-Bern?
« Reply #14 on: October 08, 2019, 01:29:50 AM »
And don't get me wrong, Biden is the literal Clinton 2.0. Lifelong politician embroiled up to the neck in "necessary" political decisions that look like *censored* today.

It's not what the electorate is looking for. It's not what I'm looking for. I've been a lifelong Dem but I swear if the DNC pulls another 2016 I'll be voting 3rd party the rest of my life.

LetterRip

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Re: Heart-Bern?
« Reply #15 on: October 08, 2019, 12:00:45 PM »
"Many of us who support Warren have been wanting Bernie to drop out and endorse her."

I'm a Sanders supporter who has hoped Sanders would drop out and endorse Warren.  That doesn't mean I've been hoping he'd have a heart attack.  So no you are making a wrongful accussation that people are 'celebrating' his heart attack.  It was quite obvious he has poor health and wouldn't be able to withstand the stresses of a campaign trail, let alone the Presidency.

Quote
I will admit a certain curiosity as to why you'd tie your train to a woman who is looking like Clinton 2.0.

She has been nothing at all like Clinton in her political or personal behavior.  Warren has no ties to the financial industry and no history of questionable behavior.

Quote
A lifelong politician who was a Republican for a long time.]/quote]

She started out as an Eisenhower Republican - basically the modern platform of liberal democrats.  She stayed with the part for longer than I'd like but it is common for people to not immediately change parties once the party no longer represents their values.

Quote
Her faking the Native American heritage thing is a boondoggle that will not go away, at all, in the general.

There is zero evidence of her 'faking' such heritage.  She has claimed ancestry, her DNA profile is consistent with such ancestry.  She has never claimed tribal membership.

Quote
At least if Sanders went through the biggest thing against him would be Scandinavian style socialism. Big turn off for some, but at least it'd turn on some younger voters, the ones abandoned by the Boomer's choices.

There are a number of things that would be problematic for Sanders - his honeymoon in communist Russia; his rape fantasy writing; his referring to himself as a Socialist; his infirmity; among other things.

D.W.

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Re: Heart-Bern?
« Reply #16 on: October 08, 2019, 01:23:22 PM »
Quote
if the DNC pulls another 2016 I'll be voting 3rd party the rest of my life
Not sure I'm quite there yet, but if they blow it and Trump get's another term...  maybe I will be.  However it's not just them.  It took a heart attack for the media to pay attention to Sanders again.

Fenring

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Re: Heart-Bern?
« Reply #17 on: October 08, 2019, 02:14:59 PM »
It took a heart attack for the media to pay attention to Sanders again.

Hm, it's almost as if they aren't impartial...

scifibum

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Re: Heart-Bern?
« Reply #18 on: October 08, 2019, 02:28:41 PM »
I don't think Warren is Hillary 2.0. I like her background in bankruptcy law, finance, and financial oversight. Her party change doesn't look to me to have been opportunistic or insincere and I don't expect someone to have always been right to be right now. The Native American boondoggle is really not a big issue, I don't think it'll sway votes in the general. She's quite opposite to Trump (whereas Biden has some overlap).

Fenring

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Re: Heart-Bern?
« Reply #19 on: October 08, 2019, 04:41:41 PM »
In the comparison of Bernie vs Warren I've always seen Warren as being a sort of poor-man's Bernie in terms of standing up for the same types of issues. They've both long railed against Wall Street, against bad trade deals, against corporatist oligarchy. Compared with your average Congressperson they've basically been teammates for a long time. From that standpoint they'd make a good ticket in terms of being on the same page. Of course that's also a bad ticket since they have an incredible amount of overlap in who they'd appeal to, whereas I think Gabbard (for example) has a set of strengths very different from both of them and would be a better running mate for one of them. But in the Warren vs Sanders issue it's Bernie that I'm used to seeing as standing right up in front of everyone and not giving a crap whether they want to hear his complaints or not; he will say it like it is and call out political B.S. that will damage America. She's more of a stately, perhaps reserved, persence, whereas Sanders has always been more of a firecracker and will speak boldly about things. Between them she's always come off as less appealing both in terms of pure likeability (which will matter a lot against Trump of all people) and also effectiveness. I'm not sure how much public will her type of approach can rally. We already know from proven example that Bernie can rally the troops, so to speak, and get the people wild with excitement about taking on the big boys. He had about as much public appeal as Obama did during the "yes we can" campaign, except that in Bernie's case it wasn't just hype but was actually about specific causes, whereas I've always felt that Obama's "yes we can" was largely a hyped marketing scheme that didn't have much substance behind it. I was living in NYC during the height of "yes we can" and I suspect that that location was the absolute ground zero for his fame. You'd see Obama paintings, posters, and on many people's walls. Stuff like that. And yet it seems to be a 1980's type commercial excitement, like buying a new amazing product (what is it?? well it's awesome! Because yes we can!), whereas Bernie seems to have tapped into that Occupy Wall Street real concern about issues where garbage is being churned out of a system that especially makes a lot of young people feel like they have no real place in America. To a great extent they really don't, and they know it. There is no way to lie to people about that and keep their trust. "Yes we can" has turned out to be a smokescreen to hide "well, some of us can, and the rest can work for us."

I really wouldn't mind seeing Warren as the final candidate, all things being equal, but I think she's objectively a worse candidate than Bernie.