Author Topic: The impossible economy  (Read 14695 times)

wmLambert

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Re: The impossible economy
« Reply #100 on: May 28, 2020, 12:17:43 PM »
I'm pretty sure you sincerely believe all of that.  Sad.
As Seriati posted:
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...nothing about these rules relaxes the requirements on closing the non-compliant toxic waste piles, other than to delay them in certain circumstances to allow reasonable alternatives to be put in place.  If you don't want the delay, then the alternative would be immediate shut down of a significant part of the power grid, or putting the costs of alternative disposal fully on consumers (which would involve - more than likely, moving toxic waste around the country by truck or train - that's a process that risks spreading it everywhere).

So again, the "evil" Trump admin is still putting in place closings of toxic waste piles, at greater rates than Obama's regulation required, and encouraging more recyclying, but "evilly" allowing plants a reasonable amount of time to implement the changes.


NobleHunter

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Re: The impossible economy
« Reply #101 on: May 28, 2020, 12:30:59 PM »
You do see the contradiction in your last two posts, right?

wmLambert

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Re: The impossible economy
« Reply #102 on: May 28, 2020, 12:47:05 PM »
You do see the contradiction in your last two posts, right?

You do realize that relaxing the Obama dictatorial fiats is not hurting the environment? I, personally recognize that Nature routinely culls unsuccessful species that have been replaced by more viable ones at a rate of tens of thousand per year, yet we get iron-clad rules to protect snail darters and spotted owls when not required. Yes, most EPA regulations deserve to be re-evaluated. Let the Free Market work.

NobleHunter

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Re: The impossible economy
« Reply #103 on: May 28, 2020, 12:50:52 PM »
That would be a no. Do you think companies are closing the sites because of the Free Market?

wmLambert

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Re: The impossible economy
« Reply #104 on: May 28, 2020, 12:55:44 PM »
That would be a no. Do you think companies are closing the sites because of the Free Market?

What in "...in certain circumstances to allow reasonable alternatives to be put in place" do you not understand?

Will await more bloviating and insult.

NobleHunter

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Re: The impossible economy
« Reply #105 on: May 28, 2020, 12:58:07 PM »
And why are they putting reasonable alternatives in place? Because people won't buy their products? Or otherwise refuse to engage in commerce with them?


wmLambert

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Re: The impossible economy
« Reply #106 on: May 28, 2020, 01:13:08 PM »
The economy works in good and bad ways. In Midland, Michigan, two dams broke and caused huge flooding. The problem was that the dams were privately owned. and the expected fixes and repairs to them coat upwards of $100 million, and the owner of one dam had an agreement to be bought out in the near future for $9 million where the new owner would have the wherewithal to do the repairs. Of course, Governor Whitmer has announced "investigations." If the investigations show the warnings of possible failure was time-specific, then the owners will be found criminally negligent. The workings of the economy is sometimes easily workable - and sometimes not. In this instance, the economic ability of the owner to do the necessary upkeep wasn't there. but he was working to get it done. Mother Nature stepped in too son for him.

Infrastructure everywhere is a major problem. Obama had many "shovel ready" projects that he took money for which never were begun. The same is still operable. Trump had requested infrastructure funding in his budget that Pelosi refused.

Fenring

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Re: The impossible economy
« Reply #107 on: May 28, 2020, 01:23:42 PM »
It amazes me that the "free market" can be seen as anything other than "people will do anything they please unless forced to stop." Forcing can occur due to consumer pressure like stopping buying Nestle products. But more often than not it can only be done on behalf of the people, since they rarely have the wherewithal to keep daily boycott lists and also are unaware of most serious issues unless they become national sensations. Industrialists would dump nuclear waste in local lakes if they thought no one would say anything about it. That anyone should doubt this to be so is just ignorance of history and reality.

wmLambert

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Re: The impossible economy
« Reply #108 on: May 28, 2020, 06:56:57 PM »
It amazes me that the "free market" can be seen as anything other than "people will do anything they please unless forced to stop." Forcing can occur due to consumer pressure like stopping buying Nestle products. But more often than not it can only be done on behalf of the people, since they rarely have the wherewithal to keep daily boycott lists and also are unaware of most serious issues unless they become national sensations. Industrialists would dump nuclear waste in local lakes if they thought no one would say anything about it. That anyone should doubt this to be so is just ignorance of history and reality.

Free Market as opposed to big government running everything.

The history of our country is clear: It was the government that charged outrageous prices and tried to pawn off shoddy merchandise, while the private businesses that supplanted them did the job right, charged lower prices, and did it without government subsidies that kept the monopolies afloat.
Quote from: Folsom
The school books give the impression that robber barons stepped in to exploit whatever they could, and were a negative point in history. The lesson the books should be teaching is that in the world of commerce, the profit motive, the structure of incentives. and the stifling tendencies of bureaucrats are such that those businesses run by entrepreneurs will consistently outperform those run by the government. Instead, the authors had a bias for a strong central government. When the authors were called on these reports, they agreed that they were not reporting fact, but incorrect, unsubstantiated ideology.

TheDrake

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Re: The impossible economy
« Reply #109 on: May 28, 2020, 07:16:59 PM »
If only businesses would operate under Ayn Rand Objectivist principles, then the free market would be awesome. Unfortunately, some can be petty, fraudulent, predatory, conspiratorial, discriminatory, dangerous, and even violent. When left unchecked, we can drag out thousands of examples of bad behaviour. It is unacceptable to say "well you can sue them afterward" because often there is no money left to pay a judgement by that point, employees have been maimed, and lives have been lost in the interim.

Or maybe you think that apartment buildings would be just as safe if we had no building codes and no inspections. Cause, you know, the free market cures all. Or perhaps you would just blame the person who bought the house because its their personal responsibility to know structural engineering, electrical engineering, materials science, and plumbing.

Kasandra

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Re: The impossible economy
« Reply #110 on: May 28, 2020, 07:50:22 PM »
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Free Market as opposed to big government running everything.

Why are you pretending to ignore all of Trump's intrusions into the "Free Market"?