Author Topic: G7 2020  (Read 3780 times)

scifibum

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G7 2020
« on: October 17, 2019, 01:03:43 PM »
No, not Crunch's nth incarnation.


Has the White House circulated talking points yet? What's the GOP excuse for blatant self dealing by the POTUS? Does the party accept that Trump's resort is objectively the best place?

Crunch

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Re: G7 2020
« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2019, 02:50:03 PM »
Well, is it the best place? Who made the decision to use this location?

If you’re OK with Hunter Biden getting $50,000 a month, why is this a problem?

I get the need to have a knee jerk reaction since orange man bad but simply having it there is not a problem. I dunno, can we maybe get some facts around this, see what’s actually happening? I’ll pass judgment when that happens. Or, more likely, *if* it happens.

Until then, yawn.

scifibum

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Re: G7 2020
« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2019, 03:57:49 PM »
You're nothing if not reliable.

Self dealing by the president is now a "yawn", presumably because Trump has been doing it already for 3 years.


Hunter Biden was not the president. Hunter Biden was not making decisions on behalf of the US Government. Idiotic question, but you seem to need these things explained.

Lloyd Perna

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Re: G7 2020
« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2019, 04:41:30 PM »
It's my understanding that the resort is providing its services at cost.  12 resorts were evaluated.

“We used the same set of criteria that other administrations used,” he said. “It became apparent at the end of that process that Doral was far and away, far and away, the best facility to host this conference.”


If he's not making any profit from it, how is it self dealing?

rightleft22

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Re: G7 2020
« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2019, 05:25:20 PM »
apparently H Biden's questionable ethics excuses everyone else's bad behavior. Sweet.

I would agree that if If he's not making any profit from it, no issue.
I suspect Trump wants to show off and get bragging rights for his property. Must be careful now that bragging can = quilt

NobleHunter

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Re: G7 2020
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2019, 05:26:59 PM »
How much is a G7 conference worth in free press?

If it's "far and away the best facility" why hasn't it been used before? Who gets to define "at cost?"

Crunch

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Re: G7 2020
« Reply #6 on: October 18, 2019, 07:09:53 AM »
It's my understanding that the resort is providing its services at cost.  12 resorts were evaluated.

“We used the same set of criteria that other administrations used,” he said. “It became apparent at the end of that process that Doral was far and away, far and away, the best facility to host this conference.”


If he's not making any profit from it, how is it self dealing?

Yes, Doral is reportedly doing this at cost. Trump will not profit from the event, and holding it at the property would be "millions of dollars cheaper" than other locations because it’s being done at cost.

Saving taxpayer dollars, not profiting from it. But, orange man bad!

Crunch

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Re: G7 2020
« Reply #7 on: October 18, 2019, 07:13:30 AM »
apparently H Biden's questionable ethics excuses everyone else's bad behavior. Sweet.

I would agree that if If he's not making any profit from it, no issue.
I suspect Trump wants to show off and get bragging rights for his property. Must be careful now that bragging can = quilt

Actually, Biden’s blatant corruption is a demonstration of the left’s total hypocrisy when trying to manufacture the appearance of corruption for Trump. If you’re going to pretend you’re outraged about corruption but give Democrats a free pass on it, you’re going to get hit with this over and over again. Being anti corruption only when it’s Trump is something you should be called out on.

Crunch

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Re: G7 2020
« Reply #8 on: October 18, 2019, 07:14:14 AM »
You're nothing if not reliable.

Self dealing by the president is now a "yawn", presumably because Trump has been doing it already for 3 years.


Hunter Biden was not the president. Hunter Biden was not making decisions on behalf of the US Government. Idiotic question, but you seem to need these things explained.
Orange man bad!

oldbrian

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Re: G7 2020
« Reply #9 on: October 18, 2019, 09:01:09 AM »
So the government undercutting private business by providing an equivalent service with no profit motive is suddenly a good thing for consevatives?  Just checking.  I'm trying to keep all the new rules straight.

rightleft22

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Re: G7 2020
« Reply #10 on: October 18, 2019, 10:00:47 AM »
Quote
Actually, Biden’s blatant corruption is a demonstration of the left’s total hypocrisy when trying to manufacture the appearance of corruption for Trump. If you’re going to pretend you’re outraged about corruption but give Democrats a free pass on it, you’re going to get hit with this over and over again. Being anti corruption only when it’s Trump is something you should be called out on.

I'm not outraged about what is happening to Biden go after him, investigate, take him out of the race. But you don't want to investigate, at lest not within the process of the rule of law. Biden bragging is enough of a smoking gun to point to his guilt.. string him up.

At the same time you look away at Trump bragging of a perfect phone call, obstruction, refusing to apply the same level of "reason", concern or judgment...  Granted you are consistent as in both cases the last thing you really want is a rule of law investigation.

You missed my point. A comment was presented stating that hypocrisy matters more then crime. Truth is narrative and crime is hypocrisy. If you go deeper such a statement is hypocrisy at its best as it feeds on itself  Your offended by the hypocrisy and in the defense of being offended become what you hate, a Hypocrite.  We have undone ourselves.

Mynnion

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Re: G7 2020
« Reply #11 on: October 18, 2019, 11:21:04 AM »
Do we know what is included in the "AT COST?"  Does that mean no cost for Trump and the SS?  From the security details for all participants?  From other ancillary services and guests?  What does "AT COST" actually mean?

Even if Trump gains nothing beyond free publicity from holding the G7 at his property the choice is in poor taste and raises a number of questions.

As far as Biden goes it seems that if Trump was interested in corruption he would have asked for an investigation in to Rudy while he was at it.

Crunch

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Re: G7 2020
« Reply #12 on: October 18, 2019, 11:32:01 AM »
Saying, in your opinion, it’s in poor taste is fair. That’s your opinion and it’s perfectly fine. Asking what that “at cost” means is also fair. I’d have preferred this be held in somewhere else.

But, assuming the claim that it was millions cheaper than other venues is true, why should US tax dollars be spent unreasonably? By millions, let’s assume $3 million saved. If none of this money is going into Trump’s pocket and it saves $3 million, why is this by default an outrage that sends so many to their fainting couch?

It’s perhaps not ideal but saving millions where nobody personally benefits is a good thing. It’s not like getting millions and extorting someone to fire the investigator.

rightleft22

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Re: G7 2020
« Reply #13 on: October 18, 2019, 12:48:08 PM »
Ah you almost had me liking until you add the "It’s not like getting millions and extorting someone to fire the investigator."

I'm not paying attention but are people upset because Its
a: ethically messy.
b: saving tax dollars
c: don't believe Trump won't gain something from it

TheDrake

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Re: G7 2020
« Reply #14 on: October 18, 2019, 12:58:05 PM »
Does anyone think that doral would have hosted this event if trump wasn't president?

D.W.

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Re: G7 2020
« Reply #15 on: October 18, 2019, 01:13:55 PM »
On the flip side, imagine all the nice things people would have to say about Trump if he hosted it at cost, were he not the president.  :P 

Mynnion

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Re: G7 2020
« Reply #16 on: October 18, 2019, 01:16:52 PM »
@Crunch  You are correct.  I am strictly stating this as an opinion.  I also see it as ethically problematic.

Again though lets say it costs the US tax payer a couple of million less.  Does the "At cost" cover everyone else attending?  What numbers are we looking at?  Those that he shares with his investors or those he reports to the IRS.  There seems to be some historic question about different numbers.


NobleHunter

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Re: G7 2020
« Reply #17 on: October 18, 2019, 01:27:11 PM »
If they want us to believe they're doing at cost, I would need them to open their books to a full audit. I mean, technically, Hollywood movies are made below cost according to the paperwork. That's why reporting on movie revenues always use gross figures rather than net.

Even assuming they aren't deliberately lying, defining profit is tricky. Are they just zeroing out a line item that says "profit"? Are they calibrating the price so their margin on sales is the same? Because being at capacity for a certain amount of time is going to reduce what they have to offset the rest of the year. Are they just going to charge what they'd normally expect to make during the conference but less the amount they call "profit" on the invoice?

I'm pretty sure that any organization which is required to adhere to ethical rules in order to do business with the US government would not be permitted to stage an event at a resort owned by anyone in the executive office. Even if they could, they wouldn't because the due diligence paperwork would be a giant pain.

D.W.

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Re: G7 2020
« Reply #18 on: October 18, 2019, 01:30:18 PM »
Honestly, even if it cost Trump money to host, they shouldn't be hosting anywhere he and his direct family have active business ties.  It's almost as if we should have rules against this kinda thing to keep everyone on the up and up...

TheDrake

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Re: G7 2020
« Reply #19 on: October 18, 2019, 02:19:05 PM »
On the flip side, imagine all the nice things people would have to say about Trump if he hosted it at cost, were he not the president.  :P

Imagine if he just did it for free, instead of a nebulous "at cost".

And does "at cost" Doral cost less than Camp David or other alternate venues?

TheDrake

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Re: G7 2020
« Reply #20 on: October 18, 2019, 03:03:13 PM »
From the onion:

“I’m no king of morality myself, but even I know it’s not right to host world leaders in Florida.”

ScottF

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Re: G7 2020
« Reply #21 on: October 18, 2019, 03:42:31 PM »
On the flip side, imagine all the nice things people would have to say about Trump if he hosted it at cost, were he not the president.  :P

Imagine if he just did it for free, instead of a nebulous "at cost".


Yeah if he did it for free I'm sure all the naysayers would flip a 180 and give him full credit. /s

TheDrake

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Re: G7 2020
« Reply #22 on: October 18, 2019, 03:44:52 PM »
On the flip side, imagine all the nice things people would have to say about Trump if he hosted it at cost, were he not the president.  :P

Imagine if he just did it for free, instead of a nebulous "at cost".


Yeah if he did it for free I'm sure all the naysayers would flip a 180 and give him full credit. /s

You're right, they wouldn't. Which is why Trump should simply eliminate his property from consideration, as opposed to pushing it.

Fenring

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Re: G7 2020
« Reply #23 on: October 18, 2019, 06:19:27 PM »
You missed my point. A comment was presented stating that hypocrisy matters more then crime.

Are you talking about my post? If yes, I never stated that it was a fact, nor did I even endorse the position slightly. What I said was that "perhaps" many people are more offended at hypocrisy than a crime.

Quote
Truth is narrative and crime is hypocrisy. If you go deeper such a statement is hypocrisy at its best as it feeds on itself  Your offended by the hypocrisy and in the defense of being offended become what you hate, a Hypocrite.  We have undone ourselves.

I'm not exactly sure what all this means but I think you missed the point of why I wrote what I wrote. I think you took it to mean "truth doesn't matter anymore, people prefer outrage over law." Or maybe something to that effect. But I meant nothing of the sort: what I meant was that maybe people's values aren't quite what you think they should be, and that's it's natural it should be like that. You can go all the way back to the New Testament and what's the cardinal sin talked of over and over? Hypocrisy. Not breach of the law. Does that mean the New Testament was into "post truth"? Rather it seems more reasonable to suppose that since time immemorial there are some things that are deemed so aggravating that people can't stand it, and if we tune into that it may explain the current situation.

Did you stop to consider that the reason America is an outrage machine is because both sides of the political equation are basically hypocrisy machines, and that this is guaranteed to rile everyone up if what they hate most is hypocrisy? And did you also consider that this may be by design? Your answer might be "well the people shouldn't be prioritizing that!" Mine would be "maybe that hypocrisy system should be dumpstered.

Crunch

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Re: G7 2020
« Reply #24 on: October 19, 2019, 10:39:50 PM »
Quote
President Trump announced Saturday night that the Trump National Doral, Miami will no longer be the location of the G7 summit in 2020.

So, all the carrying on was for nothing.

D.W.

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Re: G7 2020
« Reply #25 on: October 19, 2019, 11:50:12 PM »
Umm, the "carrying on" got it stopped.  :P

TheDrake

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Re: G7 2020
« Reply #26 on: October 20, 2019, 05:07:04 AM »
Even when reversing the decision, trump can't help but put out a tweet that is basically an advertisement.

Quote
It is big, grand, on hundreds of acres, next to MIAMI INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT, has tremendous ballrooms & meeting rooms

Kasandra

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Re: G7 2020
« Reply #27 on: October 20, 2019, 08:12:33 AM »
Even when reversing the decision, trump can't help but put out a tweet that is basically an advertisement.

Quote
It is big, grand, on hundreds of acres, next to MIAMI INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT, has tremendous ballrooms & meeting rooms

Reminds me of his election night victory speech in which he displayed a table with Trump steaks, Trump Magazine, Trump vodka, Trump water and Trump wine from various, you know, Trump enterprises. Although it was mind-bogglingly bizarre that he did it, it as even more bizarre that most of those products had already been discontinued at the time.  I remember particularly that his staff bought the steak he held up from a local butcher.

Crunch

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Re: G7 2020
« Reply #28 on: October 20, 2019, 09:41:49 AM »
Umm, the "carrying on" got it stopped.  :P

Yeah, Trump has a real history of listening to his critics and giving in to their demands, right?

D.W.

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Re: G7 2020
« Reply #29 on: October 20, 2019, 02:30:16 PM »
Ohh, too true Crunch.  I assume it was his supporters / side all telling him, "You cannot DO this!  It's a terrible idea sir!  Please, for the love of God, quit trying to give them rope to hang you with.  Are you TRYING to lose the next election?"

Even then, I'll grant you I'm surprised he'd be swayed.  ;)

TheDrake

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Re: G7 2020
« Reply #30 on: October 20, 2019, 03:20:57 PM »
I assume it was the threat of a rift with republican politicians, not only over this but also the recent decision in Syria that prompted the reversal. Also the legislation proposed to defend g7 at doral, although McConnell would likely block it from the floor.