Author Topic: Anti-immigrant sentiment in NYC  (Read 2927 times)

TheDrake

  • Members
    • View Profile
Anti-immigrant sentiment in NYC
« on: October 21, 2019, 06:35:39 PM »
Peeling this off from the other thread.

Quote
It strikes me as unlikely that Trump actually thinks such things of "immigrants" in general, being from where he's from. It would just be a weird thing for a New Yorker to think, although I guess anything's possible.

Regardless of Trump, do we really think that NYC doesn't have people who are anti-immigrant? This is the home of the guy who screamed at people for speaking Spanish wasn't it?

They recently issued this guidance:

Quote
A New York City law has new guidance that states the use of the term "illegal alien" to "demean, humiliate or harass a person" is illegal, according to the New York City Commission on Human Rights.

The guidance "defines discrimination on the basis of perceived or actual immigration status and national origin under the New York City Human Rights Law in public accommodations, employment and housing." It also includes the term "illegals."

The guidance, announced Sept. 25, also states "harassing or discriminating against someone for their use of another language or their limited English proficiency, and threatening to call ICE on a person based on a discriminatory motive, are considered to be in violation" of the New York City Human Rights Law.

Those found in violation of the law can be fined up to $250,000.

In other words, a rampant disdain for anyone that they believe *might* be an illegal alien, but who generally are probably not.

And of course Trump, the guy who says "go back where you came from" to citizens, he couldn't be one of those. And who said "Well, I think that when you get right down to it, we're a nation that speaks English. I think that, while we're in this nation, we should be speaking English."

Seriati

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: Anti-immigrant sentiment in NYC
« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2019, 10:45:10 AM »
Not sure where you're going with that.  What does citing to NYC's "woke" laws that violate the first amendment have to do with the point Fenring made?

It's just more proof to me, that the entire premise of our country based on freedom is now anathema to the left.

Wayward Son

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: Anti-immigrant sentiment in NYC
« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2019, 10:46:45 AM »
Let us not forget that the phrase "Go back to where you came from" was specifically cited in U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission guidelines as being potentially unlawful conduct in regards to anti-discrimination laws, well before Trump ever uttered the words.

TheDrake

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: Anti-immigrant sentiment in NYC
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2019, 10:53:31 AM »
His premise was that because Trump was from NYC, he couldn't be anti-immigrant:

Quote
It strikes me as unlikely that Trump actually thinks such things of "immigrants" in general, being from where he's from. It would just be a weird thing for a New Yorker to think, although I guess anything's possible.

I am pointing out that there are enough anti-immigrant New Yorkers to provoke a most-likely illegal expansion of hate speech protections in order to curb their behaviour. And then demonstrating that his words echo the type of language that was described in the rule clarification.

Seriati

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: Anti-immigrant sentiment in NYC
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2019, 11:03:04 AM »
No there aren't.  NYC's virtue signalling is not in reaction to any crisis of unwokeness in the City.  It's literally to prove they are the most woke people.  They're competing with San Francisco, who just followed up their attacks on the NRA with banning their employees from visiting 20 states over abortion issues.

Fenring

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: Anti-immigrant sentiment in NYC
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2019, 11:40:16 AM »
No there aren't.  NYC's virtue signalling is not in reaction to any crisis of unwokeness in the City.  It's literally to prove they are the most woke people.  They're competing with San Francisco, who just followed up their attacks on the NRA with banning their employees from visiting 20 states over abortion issues.

This is correct. It's exactly the same reason NYC tried (and failed) to ban soft drinks over a certain size: not because that's evidence that NYC's population was overweight or in bad health. On the contrary, New Yorkers are health nuts who love going to the gym, and this type of regulation was more like a testament of their values rather than an attempt to reverse a dangerous trend.

LetterRip

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: Anti-immigrant sentiment in NYC
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2019, 03:59:46 PM »
This is correct. It's exactly the same reason NYC tried (and failed) to ban soft drinks over a certain size: not because that's evidence that NYC's population was overweight or in bad health. On the contrary, New Yorkers are health nuts who love going to the gym, and this type of regulation was more like a testament of their values rather than an attempt to reverse a dangerous trend.

NYC obesity rate is 22%, overweight is 34%.  Rates among children are much higher - more than 43% for elementary school children.

https://www1.nyc.gov/site/doh/health/health-topics/obesity.page

Not sure where you get your information, but it is entirely contrary to fact.  NYC - like most of the US has a serious obesity problem, especially among children.

Fenring

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: Anti-immigrant sentiment in NYC
« Reply #7 on: October 22, 2019, 04:18:22 PM »
NYC obesity rate is 22%, overweight is 34%.  Rates among children are much higher - more than 43% for elementary school children.

https://www1.nyc.gov/site/doh/health/health-topics/obesity.page

Not sure where you get your information, but it is entirely contrary to fact.  NYC - like most of the US has a serious obesity problem, especially among children.

I didn't say that NYC is actually healthier than the rest of the nation, although I shouldn't be surprised that it's better than a lot of places. I read that obesity is much worse in the boroughs than in Manhattan, so it's not even across the board, and the huge health culture is largely to be found in the city, it's true. But the rate of obesity you cited (22% for adults) seems much lower than the national average, which seems to be around 33%. Hey, I didn't say America was the healthiest place, just that NYC has a renowned health culture. It's not because of the health epidemic that the soft drink law was introduced, but precisely because of the trendy health culture that they thought such a law would fly. Guess they were wrong about that one: New Yorkers want their 100,000 fat-free fro-yo places, but they want them right next to the cupcake places and to have the choice. The crazes there really sweep in big-time when they happen.

TheDrake

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: Anti-immigrant sentiment in NYC
« Reply #8 on: October 22, 2019, 04:39:16 PM »
This assumes that they weren't just seeking the most politically expedient way of raking in more taxes. :D

Fenring

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: Anti-immigrant sentiment in NYC
« Reply #9 on: October 22, 2019, 05:30:25 PM »
This assumes that they weren't just seeking the most politically expedient way of raking in more taxes. :D

Um, I think it was a ban, not a tax.

TheDrake

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: Anti-immigrant sentiment in NYC
« Reply #10 on: October 22, 2019, 05:40:28 PM »
They had a portion cap, you're right. That got squashed by the courts, and efforts to replace it with a soda tax have been unsuccessful to this point.

Wayward Son

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: Anti-immigrant sentiment in NYC
« Reply #11 on: October 22, 2019, 06:09:14 PM »
Quote
Hey, I didn't say America was the healthiest place, just that NYC has a renowned health culture.

You haven't spent much time in NYC, have you?  ;D

Admittedly, they may be a bit thinner because they have to constantly walk in that city.  A typical New Yorker gets more aerobic exercise getting to and from the subways than most places.  But being more health conscious?  You haven't seen those Philly sandwich places!  ;)

From what I've seen, NYC is not significantly more health conscious than the rest of the U.S.  I suspect that the reason the city thought they could ban large amounts of soft drinks is simply because it is a good idea.  We, as a society, really shouldn't ingest that much sugar.  I suspect that the city leaders thought that, if they made it a law, people would just go along with.

They didn't realize how much people love their Coke.

Seriati

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: Anti-immigrant sentiment in NYC
« Reply #12 on: October 22, 2019, 06:23:24 PM »
Obesity rates vary, but NJ, CT and NY are all on the low end by state, and most of the commuter areas in the 3 are on the extreme low end.  There's a reason that American Housewife (set in Westport, CT, was had a working title of something like the "Second fattest woman in Westport CT").

Fenring

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: Anti-immigrant sentiment in NYC
« Reply #13 on: October 22, 2019, 10:16:16 PM »
You haven't spent much time in NYC, have you?  ;D

Yeah I guess not  :P

Quote
Admittedly, they may be a bit thinner because they have to constantly walk in that city.  A typical New Yorker gets more aerobic exercise getting to and from the subways than most places.  But being more health conscious?  You haven't seen those Philly sandwich places!  ;)

Heh well they are crazy for certain types of places like burgers (the Shake Shack was an insane phenomenon when it first came to the city) and more recently than that cupcakes, but actually I didn't notice too much in the way of cheesesteak places. Maybe I didn't go to the right place in Brooklyn or something...

But no, seriously, between the artist culture there, which is insane about fitness, and the financial sector, which also tends to be highly motivated and gym-going, and then all the auxiliary business oriented around aesthetics, just from a purely job-sector standpoint the fitness culture is already evident. Pair that up with lots of big money flying around, high fashion and people wanting to look good all the time (often dressing up just to walk on the street, being one of the best dressed cities out there), and the sheer amount and accessibility of gyms there, and yeah, it's a basic part of the culture there to be gym-going.

DonaldD

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: Anti-immigrant sentiment in NYC
« Reply #14 on: October 23, 2019, 10:31:59 AM »
https://stateofchildhoodobesity.org/states/ny/
Quote
New York's adult obesity rate is currently 27.6%, up from 17.1% in 2000 and from 9.3% in 1990
The obesity rate in New York has tripled over the past 30 years, bringing with it increases in health, social and infrastructure costs.  Any state that did not address such an increase would be completely irresponsible.

TheDrake

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: Anti-immigrant sentiment in NYC
« Reply #15 on: October 23, 2019, 12:06:37 PM »
I have a suspicion that the "gym culture" is probably more about people of a certain socio-economic status largely limited to Manhattan. How many Brooklyn millennials are all about going to gyms and working out, I wonder? Especially the ones on public assistance?

No, I don't have any proof or first hand knowledge. I've only been in NY a handful of days. Pure speculation on my part.

Fenring

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: Anti-immigrant sentiment in NYC
« Reply #16 on: October 23, 2019, 12:12:06 PM »
I have a suspicion that the "gym culture" is probably more about people of a certain socio-economic status largely limited to Manhattan. How many Brooklyn millennials are all about going to gyms and working out, I wonder? Especially the ones on public assistance?

I couldn't wager a direct guess. There are definitely more New York Sports Clubs, for instance, in Manhattan than elsewhere per area. But there are still more gyms (and especially 24 hour gyms) even in the boroughs then I tend to see normally in cities. At least that's in my experience. But also remember that *so* many people work in Manhattan that it's efficient for people to go to the gym near their work rather than near their home in many cases, so the concentration of gyms in Manhattan doesn't translate to meaning that only people who live there use them.

TheDrake

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: Anti-immigrant sentiment in NYC
« Reply #17 on: October 23, 2019, 12:18:51 PM »
I have a suspicion that the "gym culture" is probably more about people of a certain socio-economic status largely limited to Manhattan. How many Brooklyn millennials are all about going to gyms and working out, I wonder? Especially the ones on public assistance?

I couldn't wager a direct guess. There are definitely more New York Sports Clubs, for instance, in Manhattan than elsewhere per area. But there are still more gyms (and especially 24 hour gyms) even in the boroughs then I tend to see normally in cities. At least that's in my experience. But also remember that *so* many people work in Manhattan that it's efficient for people to go to the gym near their work rather than near their home in many cases, so the concentration of gyms in Manhattan doesn't translate to meaning that only people who live there use them.

That's fair, but you'd have to eliminate the commuters from the soda equation, because they can buy all the big gulps they want in NJ and CT.